Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

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max225
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Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:07 pm

D Griff wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:02 pm
max225 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:59 pm


It really isn't that much smaller than a corvette. Also corvette is made of plastic. Let's not forget that. And how is it "hundreds of pounds heavier" they are at a weight parity. Unless you're talking Z06.
C5s are like 3100-3250. The C5 is also significantly more roomy inside.
Z is around 3280-3420 IIRC. They are nearly the same, but a Z06 to a loaded auto nismo would be 250lbs. You can have certain trims that are pretty much equal.

I don't know about roomy inside... They felt quite similar to me. The C5 does have a significantly bigger hatch though. But it features no behind seats storage unlike the Z.

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Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:15 pm


max225 wrote:
Detroit wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:00 pm
I really think it has a lot to do with the underlying body structure. There's been a lot of advancement in high strength steel tech and widespread use that's reduced the cost and allowed for wider adaptation to drive down weight.

BRZ is also relatively low powered by comparison, which allows for smaller/lighter driveline and chassis components.
Yea the Z rode on 19"s and had ginormous brakes. That by itself is probably 100 lbs over a BRZ, I would guess the engine + trans+driveline is another 150... so i guess here we go.

Z has a 19 gallon gas tank which is quite :impressive: in todays world of baby dick gas tanks.
The 86 engine is actually very heavy for what it is, but the rest of the drivetrain is probably lighter than the Z. The suspension and subframes are all shitty heavy pieces too, all to keep the price under $30k. It's :impressive: that the car is as good as it is, since it's largely just a bunch of cheap parts bin shit.

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max225
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Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:20 pm

troyguitar wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:15 pm
max225 wrote:
Yea the Z rode on 19"s and had ginormous brakes. That by itself is probably 100 lbs over a BRZ, I would guess the engine + trans+driveline is another 150... so i guess here we go.

Z has a 19 gallon gas tank which is quite :impressive: in todays world of baby dick gas tanks.
The 86 engine is actually very heavy for what it is, but the rest of the drivetrain is probably lighter than the Z. The suspension and subframes are all shitty heavy pieces too, all to keep the price under $30k. It's :impressive: that the car is as good as it is, since it's largely just a bunch of cheap parts bin shit.
Its interesting because the 370z was technically sub 30k as well but it features considerable engineering/material expenses pushed into it.

But then it falls short with dumb shit... like the road noise level were just :fullretard: like the lack of fender liners + sticky tires made you feel like you're literally in a fking tin can. Tiny rocks would bounce metallic noises through the entire interior. Like... it may be what... 300 grams? to add wheel liners.

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Detroit
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Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm

max225 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:20 pm
troyguitar wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:15 pm


The 86 engine is actually very heavy for what it is, but the rest of the drivetrain is probably lighter than the Z. The suspension and subframes are all shitty heavy pieces too, all to keep the price under $30k. It's :impressive: that the car is as good as it is, since it's largely just a bunch of cheap parts bin shit.
Its interesting because the 370z was technically sub 30k as well but it features considerable engineering/material expenses pushed into it.

But then it falls short with dumb shit... like the road noise level were just :fullretard: like the lack of fender liners + sticky tires made you feel like you're literally in a fking tin can. Tiny rocks would bounce metallic noises through the entire interior. Like... it may be what... 300 grams? to add wheel liners.
There's always trade-offs in vehicle development. Gotta draw the line somewhere in variable cost and CAPEX. I could see the development team saying performance is more important than NVH, so do that. There's also a really good chance that they had the NVH stuff in the plan, but stripped it out for cost savings or something. The stuff I'm debating with finance and program engineering to remove to hit cost targets right now are absolutely :fullretard: Just trying to keep the vehicle program afloat can sometimes result in really difficult and often stupid decisions.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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Desertbreh
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Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:44 pm

max225 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:54 pm
Detroit wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:51 pm

What's the body and structure made out of? There's still opportunity there with higher strength (and thus thinner/lighter weight), but that's pricey. Will be interesting to see.
chinese steel, same as everything else. But I am just sharing the info, and how much went into the last gen Z. I really REALLY liked that car.
And yet.....
Bender wrote: No one gives a shit about Virginia

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Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:48 pm

Desertbreh wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:44 pm
max225 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:54 pm

chinese steel, same as everything else. But I am just sharing the info, and how much went into the last gen Z. I really REALLY liked that car.
And yet.....
:plac: finds a way

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Desertbreh
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Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:00 pm

Tarspin wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:48 pm
Desertbreh wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:44 pm


And yet.....
:plac: finds a way
2.5 BMWs later.
Bender wrote: No one gives a shit about Virginia

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max225
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Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:11 pm

Desertbreh wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:44 pm
max225 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:54 pm

chinese steel, same as everything else. But I am just sharing the info, and how much went into the last gen Z. I really REALLY liked that car.
And yet.....
It was a bad commuter. Small, low, giant wheels and unbearable road noises I bought the car thinking I was going to move to sf and it’ll be a weekender.

I since got a job in the burbs etc. things change breh.

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Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:18 pm

max225 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:11 pm
Desertbreh wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:44 pm


And yet.....
It was a bad commuter. Small, low, giant wheels and unbearable road noises I bought the car thinking I was going to move to sf and it’ll be a weekender.

I since got a job in the burbs etc. things change breh.
I have a set of howling Toyos on the Tahoe that are not even close to being replaced yet. First set was A-1 these guys started the wubba wubba after like 12K miles. I play a lot of loud music. I am Z curious I dug that car.
Bender wrote: No one gives a shit about Virginia

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max225
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Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:21 pm

Desertbreh wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:18 pm
max225 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:11 pm

It was a bad commuter. Small, low, giant wheels and unbearable road noises I bought the car thinking I was going to move to sf and it’ll be a weekender.

I since got a job in the burbs etc. things change breh.
I have a set of howling Toyos on the Tahoe that are not even close to being replaced yet. First set was A-1 these guys started the wubba wubba after like 12K miles. I play a lot of loud music. I am Z curious I dug that car.
I think it is a wonderful machine. Just a much more quality/put together C5. Imo. It lacks only the V8 noises but that v6 sounds darn good imo.

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Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:01 pm

I wish I was more interested in Japanese sports cars...I just always feel like a giant driving them. There aren't many 6'5" Japanese people. BRZ is the most comfortable I've found, 370 is second, but still feels cramped.

That's where the Germans shine for me personally. The room in a MINI is :mindblown: BMWs always seem to fit me right too.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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CaleDeRoo
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Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:20 pm

Image

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:jimp:

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Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:41 pm

CaleDeRoo wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:20 pm
Image

Image

Image

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:jimp:
That top one... :notbad:
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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Tarspin
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Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:20 pm

Some good news on the car front, it turns out that VWoC will be covering the oddball rust spot that started forming on the tailgate of the Touareg. It was one of my sticking points with the car and I took a leap of faith that they would do the right thing when I was deciding on buying it out. Quotes coming back are pretty steep so I was going to :dealwithit: on my own if it weren't covered.

Pics for those who haven't seen yet:

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wap
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Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:31 pm

:nice: !!
:wap: Where are these mangos?

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Tarspin
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Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 pm

Custom conversion! #worthless

Image

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wap
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Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:26 pm

:gag:
:wap: Where are these mangos?

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Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:07 am

Tarspin wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Custom conversion! #worthless

Image
Just in case anyone was wondering if it has a Hemi?

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Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:41 am

Huckleberry wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:07 am
Tarspin wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Custom conversion! #worthless

Image
Just in case anyone was wondering if it has a Hemi?
Good guess since that sticker is much wow... but the big news here is that the factory doesn't make these in a rag top so this chap cut his own roof off! It is part :impressive: and part :yikes: , hope he reinforced the body somehow.

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max225
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Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:49 am

Tarspin wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Custom conversion! #worthless

Image
I don’t hate it ....

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Huckleberry
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Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:01 am

Tarspin wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:41 am
Huckleberry wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:07 am


Just in case anyone was wondering if it has a Hemi?
Good guess since that sticker is much wow... but the big news here is that the factory doesn't make these in a rag top so this chap cut his own roof off! It is part :impressive: and part :yikes: , hope he reinforced the body somehow.
Ah, I thought he just went full boomer and did a vinyl roof covering.

I imagine that thing will start flexing itself apart in short order if proper reinforcements weren't added. Even then, it still may do it. As popular as these cars are, I would think that FCA would have done it long ago if it was feasible.

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Tarspin
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Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:38 am

Huckleberry wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:01 am
Tarspin wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:41 am


Good guess since that sticker is much wow... but the big news here is that the factory doesn't make these in a rag top so this chap cut his own roof off! It is part :impressive: and part :yikes: , hope he reinforced the body somehow.
Ah, I thought he just went full boomer and did a vinyl roof covering.

I imagine that thing will start flexing itself apart in short order if proper reinforcements weren't added. Even then, it still may do it. As popular as these cars are, I would think that FCA would have done it long ago if it was feasible.
:word: I really don't think you can properly reinforce the car after seeing it build.

Underbody gets inner unibody and roof bows added, then the outer body (aperture) gets welded on and finally the roof is added and brazed before the shell goes into the re-spot line. The back pillars and roof are integrated. Just cutting them off is scary and I think the car could fold in some accidents or like you say could flex itself apart.

Who knows maybe there is a viable solution or kit out there. I'm surprised that they never built a vert, but I love the wide-body/Hellcat concept and think that's the big win for the company.

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Tarspin
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Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:39 am

max225 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:49 am
Tarspin wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Custom conversion! #worthless

Image
I don’t hate it ....
It was :neat: to see top down earlier in the day. I'm really surprised that someone went out of their way to do this. More surprised that it never made it to production.

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D Griff
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Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:48 am

max225 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:49 am
Tarspin wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Custom conversion! #worthless

Image
I don’t hate it ....
Giant decal aside, that looks pretty factory.

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D Griff
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Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:49 am

max225 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:21 pm
Desertbreh wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:18 pm


I have a set of howling Toyos on the Tahoe that are not even close to being replaced yet. First set was A-1 these guys started the wubba wubba after like 12K miles. I play a lot of loud music. I am Z curious I dug that car.
I think it is a wonderful machine. Just a much more quality/put together C5. Imo. It lacks only the V8 noises but that v6 sounds darn good imo.
:notwrong: the Z also has better brakes and better transmissions.

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