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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:22 pm
Tarspin wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:14 pm :impressive: , why am I too poor to :plac: ? Great effort on everyone's part to make these lists as extensive as they are.

Thanks Max, your bean-counting and list management are 5/7 enjoyable!
Too poor or just too... not dumb?

We :troywax: $40K on a Beep Beep and I sort of regret it. $750/month on the payment is kind of :disgust: when we could just still have the Fusion for zero outlay.

:ohwell: at least the Beep Beep is easily :plac: - able with the epic resale.
Well, at least it's a vehicle you both enjoy...vs the Fusion that's just :disgust: all around. There's value in that.

But yea, resale makes it an easy experiment to not lose a ton on if you decide to off it later. That's the nice thing with Wranglers.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:25 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:22 pm

Too poor or just too... not dumb?

We :troywax: $40K on a Beep Beep and I sort of regret it. $750/month on the payment is kind of :disgust: when we could just still have the Fusion for zero outlay.

:ohwell: at least the Beep Beep is easily :plac: - able with the epic resale.
Well, at least it's a vehicle you both enjoy...vs the Fusion that's just :disgust: all around. There's value in that.

But yea, resale makes it an easy experiment to not lose a ton on if you decide to off it later. That's the nice thing with Wranglers.
I mean... it is a fun car and the only area we really intersect. The wife likes BMW CUVs as well, which I think I could enjoy, but she is :notsure: about actually driving one for similar reasons as my reservations (her family is poor, works at a school, etc.).

I guess to the point of the investment thread... the :jeep: is actually probably a stronger holding than our savings :lolol: Especially given the bank is fronting the money at a low rate.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:28 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:25 pm
Well, at least it's a vehicle you both enjoy...vs the Fusion that's just :disgust: all around. There's value in that.

But yea, resale makes it an easy experiment to not lose a ton on if you decide to off it later. That's the nice thing with Wranglers.
I mean... it is a fun car and the only area we really intersect. The wife likes BMW CUVs as well, which I think I could enjoy, but she is :notsure: about actually driving one for similar reasons as my reservations (her family is poor, works at a school, etc.).

I guess to the point of the investment thread... the :jeep: is actually probably a stronger holding than our savings :lolol: Especially given the bank is fronting the money at a low rate.
I can't stand CUVs. Never have, never will. They're compromises in every way...a worse car and a shitty SUV, I don't seen the point. The Wrangler is a better choice for every reason IMO. No SUV drives well, so might as well just get something fun.

Right now, dumping cash in a low depreciating asset could end up being smart. Cash is losing value by the day, and the market is at all time high, mitigating losses by putting some cash into a vehicle that's proven to have high residual isn't the worst idea. It's part of why I'm looking for a TJ.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Tarspin wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:14 pm :impressive: , why am I too poor to :plac: ? Great effort on everyone's part to make these lists as extensive as they are.

Thanks Max, your bean-counting and list management are 5/7 enjoyable!
NP :) I try to do my part :gaydance:
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:22 pm
Tarspin wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:14 pm :impressive: , why am I too poor to :plac: ? Great effort on everyone's part to make these lists as extensive as they are.

Thanks Max, your bean-counting and list management are 5/7 enjoyable!
Too poor or just too... not dumb?

We :troywax: $40K on a Beep Beep and I sort of regret it. $750/month on the payment is kind of :disgust: when we could just still have the Fusion for zero outlay.

:ohwell: at least the Beep Beep is easily :plac: - able with the epic resale.
I like Beep Beeps and wish I had one, they don't work at all for my commute style unfortunately. I'd Beep if I lived my best life in Grand Bend while my wife WFH to keep us afloat. TBH, I'm still feeling the sting of a double property purchase back to back but we just started to pay down the LOC on my wife's Touareg Lease buy out. This is the first month that I feel like we have solid traction on the financial front. Nobody is buying toys until that baby is paid off, and I'm happy with my cash flow situation again.

I want someone to build a low HP, fun and fresh new mid-engined thing like the MR2 or Fiero but I don't think that's a realistic expectation in 2021. I'm guessing that it will be electric pods by 2025
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Tarspin wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:34 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:22 pm

Too poor or just too... not dumb?

We :troywax: $40K on a Beep Beep and I sort of regret it. $750/month on the payment is kind of :disgust: when we could just still have the Fusion for zero outlay.

:ohwell: at least the Beep Beep is easily :plac: - able with the epic resale.
I like Beep Beeps and wish I had one, they don't work at all for my commute style unfortunately. I'd Beep if I lived my best life in Grand Bend while my wife WFH to keep us afloat. TBH, I'm still feeling the sting of a double property purchase back to back but we just started to pay down the LOC on my wife's Touareg Lease buy out. This is the first month that I feel like we have solid traction on the financial front. Nobody is buying toys until that baby is paid off, and I'm happy with my cash flow situation again.

I want someone to build a low HP, fun and fresh new mid-engined thing like the MR2 or Fiero but I don't think that's a realistic expectation in 2021. I'm guessing that it will be electric pods by 2025
Maybe 2052, not 2025.

I would also be in for a fresh mid engine thing that regulars could afford. The Hyundai concept or MR2 teasers may cometo fruition :popcorn:
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:43 pm
Tarspin wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:34 pm

I like Beep Beeps and wish I had one, they don't work at all for my commute style unfortunately. I'd Beep if I lived my best life in Grand Bend while my wife WFH to keep us afloat. TBH, I'm still feeling the sting of a double property purchase back to back but we just started to pay down the LOC on my wife's Touareg Lease buy out. This is the first month that I feel like we have solid traction on the financial front. Nobody is buying toys until that baby is paid off, and I'm happy with my cash flow situation again.

I want someone to build a low HP, fun and fresh new mid-engined thing like the MR2 or Fiero but I don't think that's a realistic expectation in 2021. I'm guessing that it will be electric pods by 2025
Maybe 2052, not 2025.

I would also be in for a fresh mid engine thing that regulars could afford. The Hyundai concept or MR2 teasers may cometo fruition :popcorn:
Hopefully they :doit:
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Tarspin wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:58 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:43 pm

Maybe 2052, not 2025.

I would also be in for a fresh mid engine thing that regulars could afford. The Hyundai concept or MR2 teasers may cometo fruition :popcorn:
Hopefully they :doit:
:dat:

The opportunity is there IMO. Nobody makes anything like that anymore.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:00 pm
Tarspin wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:58 pm

Hopefully they :doit:
:dat:

The opportunity is there IMO. Nobody makes anything like that anymore.
:dat:

I wish I could say I would buy one... but I likely won't, next purchase will probably be a hatchback or something.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:46 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:00 pm
:dat:

The opportunity is there IMO. Nobody makes anything like that anymore.
:dat:

I wish I could say I would buy one... but I likely won't, next purchase will probably be a hatchback or something.
And I think that's why nobody makes these vehicles anymore. They're just toys, so relegated to the rich, who are so rich now that they want a status symbol with their toy in the form of a badge, exclusivity, or high price.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:54 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:46 pm

:dat:

I wish I could say I would buy one... but I likely won't, next purchase will probably be a hatchback or something.
And I think that's why nobody makes these vehicles anymore. They're just toys, so relegated to the rich, who are so rich now that they want a status symbol with their toy in the form of a badge, exclusivity, or high price.
:notwrong:

It is just hard to justify when I already have a :poorvette: that fills that void for pennies on the dollar. I also do enjoy going to track events and can't really imagine throwing $40K out around a track, the C5 seems to take the abuse pretty well and I don't lose any sleep over all of the rock chips and other track scars.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:06 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:54 pm
And I think that's why nobody makes these vehicles anymore. They're just toys, so relegated to the rich, who are so rich now that they want a status symbol with their toy in the form of a badge, exclusivity, or high price.
:notwrong:

It is just hard to justify when I already have a :poorvette: that fills that void for pennies on the dollar. I also do enjoy going to track events and can't really imagine throwing $40K out around a track, the C5 seems to take the abuse pretty well and I don't lose any sleep over all of the rock chips and other track scars.
You'd need a large enough group of people that wanted to do fun car things without the hassle of dealing with an old car (and/or wanting more refinement than older cars like the C5 offers) and willing to pay in the $30k range to do it. I don't think that group of people is very large.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:25 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:06 pm

:notwrong:

It is just hard to justify when I already have a :poorvette: that fills that void for pennies on the dollar. I also do enjoy going to track events and can't really imagine throwing $40K out around a track, the C5 seems to take the abuse pretty well and I don't lose any sleep over all of the rock chips and other track scars.
You'd need a large enough group of people that wanted to do fun car things without the hassle of dealing with an old car (and/or wanting more refinement than older cars like the C5 offers) and willing to pay in the $30k range to do it. I don't think that group of people is very large.
It seems like quite a few people are still buying the BRZ/Yoda thing at least out here... There is a market for a mid engined "poorscha" competitors... that come in 30k cheaper... which should be easily doable since Porsche charges ridiculous money for things like power seats/leathe+wheels+tires.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:25 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:06 pm

:notwrong:

It is just hard to justify when I already have a :poorvette: that fills that void for pennies on the dollar. I also do enjoy going to track events and can't really imagine throwing $40K out around a track, the C5 seems to take the abuse pretty well and I don't lose any sleep over all of the rock chips and other track scars.
You'd need a large enough group of people that wanted to do fun car things without the hassle of dealing with an old car (and/or wanting more refinement than older cars like the C5 offers) and willing to pay in the $30k range to do it. I don't think that group of people is very large.
See, I think I'm a buyer at $30K. If there were really a brand new Japanese/Korean mid-engine thing with a manual for that, I'd vote with my wallet. The trouble is, a "low end" sports car is now $45K. That is just too much for a pointless vehicle for me and :butwhy: get that when at that point I could have a used Evora?
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:46 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:25 pm
You'd need a large enough group of people that wanted to do fun car things without the hassle of dealing with an old car (and/or wanting more refinement than older cars like the C5 offers) and willing to pay in the $30k range to do it. I don't think that group of people is very large.
See, I think I'm a buyer at $30K. If there were really a brand new Japanese/Korean mid-engine thing with a manual for that, I'd vote with my wallet. The trouble is, a "low end" sports car is now $45K. That is just too much for a pointless vehicle for me and :butwhy: get that when at that point I could have a used Evora?
The BRZ should start sub-$30k like it does today right? I don't see why a slanty H mid engine thing couldn't.

Can get base Mustangs and Camaros in the high $20k/low $30k range, there's a market there.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:58 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:46 pm

See, I think I'm a buyer at $30K. If there were really a brand new Japanese/Korean mid-engine thing with a manual for that, I'd vote with my wallet. The trouble is, a "low end" sports car is now $45K. That is just too much for a pointless vehicle for me and :butwhy: get that when at that point I could have a used Evora?
The BRZ should start sub-$30k like it does today right? I don't see why a slanty H mid engine thing couldn't.

Can get base Mustangs and Camaros in the high $20k/low $30k range, there's a market there.
I would love to see that. I guess nothing about a mid-engine platform would be inherently more expensive than a dedicated thing like the 86.

But seeing even the 2.0 Supra coming in at > $40K and the 400Z looking the same... I'm skeptical. I do feel like Toyota or Hyundai just maybe would :doit: based on what they've put out in recent years.

The reality is, I'm much more likely to wind up as a Veloster N or GR Corolla buyer.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:58 pm
The BRZ should start sub-$30k like it does today right? I don't see why a slanty H mid engine thing couldn't.

Can get base Mustangs and Camaros in the high $20k/low $30k range, there's a market there.
I would love to see that. I guess nothing about a mid-engine platform would be inherently more expensive than a dedicated thing like the 86.

But seeing even the 2.0 Supra coming in at > $40K and the 400Z looking the same... I'm skeptical. I do feel like Toyota or Hyundai just maybe would :doit: based on what they've put out in recent years.

The reality is, I'm much more likely to wind up as a Veloster N or GR Corolla buyer.
Biggest issue with a mid engine layout is it really restricts how much parts sharing you can capitalize on between vehicles/platforms. Volume is critical to make a business case for something like that, and the market for a 2 seat mid engine thing is super limited for obvious reasons. But Hyundai seems to be doing a lot of bold moves lately that are working out for them...they're making money hand over fist, and as they keep touting the N-line, the ultimate mic drop would be an affordable mid engine car. Even if it's just an attainable "halo"...the positive press would be insane and could make up for the lack of strong income opportunity.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:12 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 pm

I would love to see that. I guess nothing about a mid-engine platform would be inherently more expensive than a dedicated thing like the 86.

But seeing even the 2.0 Supra coming in at > $40K and the 400Z looking the same... I'm skeptical. I do feel like Toyota or Hyundai just maybe would :doit: based on what they've put out in recent years.

The reality is, I'm much more likely to wind up as a Veloster N or GR Corolla buyer.
Biggest issue with a mid engine layout is it really restricts how much parts sharing you can capitalize on between vehicles/platforms. Volume is critical to make a business case for something like that, and the market for a 2 seat mid engine thing is super limited for obvious reasons. But Hyundai seems to be doing a lot of bold moves lately that are working out for them...they're making money hand over fist, and as they keep touting the N-line, the ultimate mic drop would be an affordable mid engine car. Even if it's just an attainable "halo"...the positive press would be insane and could make up for the lack of strong income opportunity.
Take their 1.6T + DCT... most of the interior from sonata or the likes. The worst part would be the mid chassis + all that cost to test and make it safe... :iono:
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max225 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:25 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:12 pm
Biggest issue with a mid engine layout is it really restricts how much parts sharing you can capitalize on between vehicles/platforms. Volume is critical to make a business case for something like that, and the market for a 2 seat mid engine thing is super limited for obvious reasons. But Hyundai seems to be doing a lot of bold moves lately that are working out for them...they're making money hand over fist, and as they keep touting the N-line, the ultimate mic drop would be an affordable mid engine car. Even if it's just an attainable "halo"...the positive press would be insane and could make up for the lack of strong income opportunity.
Take their 1.6T + DCT... most of the interior from sonata or the likes. The worst part would be the mid chassis + all that cost to test and make it safe... :iono:
Right. It's easy to pull parts from the parts bin and slap them together. But to engineer and validate it to last 100k+ miles and make sure it's safe and not an overall POS is extremely costly. Then there's the cost of finding a place to build the thing and the cost of tooling up an assembly line and the supply chain to feed it...very costly if it can't be done with other like vehicles and a plant can't survive by itself at under 100k units, makes no sense.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:12 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 pm

I would love to see that. I guess nothing about a mid-engine platform would be inherently more expensive than a dedicated thing like the 86.

But seeing even the 2.0 Supra coming in at > $40K and the 400Z looking the same... I'm skeptical. I do feel like Toyota or Hyundai just maybe would :doit: based on what they've put out in recent years.

The reality is, I'm much more likely to wind up as a Veloster N or GR Corolla buyer.
Biggest issue with a mid engine layout is it really restricts how much parts sharing you can capitalize on between vehicles/platforms. Volume is critical to make a business case for something like that, and the market for a 2 seat mid engine thing is super limited for obvious reasons. But Hyundai seems to be doing a lot of bold moves lately that are working out for them...they're making money hand over fist, and as they keep touting the N-line, the ultimate mic drop would be an affordable mid engine car. Even if it's just an attainable "halo"...the positive press would be insane and could make up for the lack of strong income opportunity.
Are Veloster N sales decent? I think I've only ever seen them at track events and the Tail of the Dragon... maybe 2-3 just driving around ever.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:03 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:12 pm
Biggest issue with a mid engine layout is it really restricts how much parts sharing you can capitalize on between vehicles/platforms. Volume is critical to make a business case for something like that, and the market for a 2 seat mid engine thing is super limited for obvious reasons. But Hyundai seems to be doing a lot of bold moves lately that are working out for them...they're making money hand over fist, and as they keep touting the N-line, the ultimate mic drop would be an affordable mid engine car. Even if it's just an attainable "halo"...the positive press would be insane and could make up for the lack of strong income opportunity.
Are Veloster N sales decent? I think I've only ever seen them at track events and the Tail of the Dragon... maybe 2-3 just driving around ever.
No idea, I've never seen one IRL, but Foreign cars are pretty rare here outside of Subaru and Toyota.

I recall reading that Hyundai is really interested in expanding the N line, so maybe?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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razr390 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:55 am I want a Corolla hybrid. Curious to see your thoughts on it.
Don't. Do. It.
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max225 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:37 pm Closing out the thread! 2020 was :mindblown: despite the plandemic

17 vehicles purchased !!

1. Irish - T for T
2. 3rdgenfan- ElectricGMegg
3. Big Brain Bradley- the answer.
4. Gberg- :egg: for :plac:
5. Dubshow - bimmerwagonshow
6. :plac: [user not found] - Mini Midget Mini :plac: the eternal
7. :wap: cornhole one fiddy settlement benefit
8. 3rdgenfan with the chrome thunder gxp
9. Dgriff is now officially ToledoGriff :jeep:
10. Calederoo with the B5 k04 x2
11. Gberg with the :rage: 4
12. :therapist: :baby: clowncar
13. :melon: bloo Bavarian lightning
14. Zillskie the :plac: :taco: man
15. :225: with the :265: turd :taco:
16. Apex :jeep: :truk:
17. Fled with the Poorsche slaying hybrid rolla
I dumped the GTI and getting a french shitbox

YES I have finally :plac: d
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MexicanYarisTK wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:27 am
razr390 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:55 am I want a Corolla hybrid. Curious to see your thoughts on it.
Don't. Do. It.
:thankyou:

I don’t understand that move at all, been arguing against for a while. Fled's switch from a truck to one due to the long commute makes some sense but otherwise :hellno:
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:bravo:
D Griff wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:01 pm
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:27 am

Don't. Do. It.
:thankyou:

I don’t understand that move at all, been arguing against for a while. Fled's switch from a truck to one due to the long commute makes some sense but otherwise :hellno:
:thankyou:
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