Car Talk 4: The Richard Hertz Rent-A-Car 500

Brothers of brub and brap, this is your safe space.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

max225 wrote:Those cruises with the 1.4 were weird vehicles... 500lbs heavier than the competition with a tiny 1.4 engine that was completely gutless, but promised "superior" mpg to a civic yet never delivered it.
:wrong:

The extra weight was because they were solid feeling and very quiet - and they did deliver 42+ mpg highway which was well ahead of the civic before it went turbro.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

troyguitar wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:19 pm
max225 wrote:Those cruises with the 1.4 were weird vehicles... 500lbs heavier than the competition with a tiny 1.4 engine that was completely gutless, but promised "superior" mpg to a civic yet never delivered it.
:wrong:

The extra weight was because they were solid feeling and very quiet - and they did deliver 42+ mpg highway which was well ahead of the civic before it went turbro.
I dunno not in my rental experience they didn't. I averaged right around 30 (it wasn't an eco model, regular 1.4T), granted it was an automatic. While the same gen civic was averaging 35 on a shittier rating.
100% agreed on the quietness though. The civics were tin cans in comparison.
Last edited by max225 on Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8010
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

I went to CA when I was 20 for vacay and got a Cruze LTZ rental and it was pretty nice. Had BT audio streaming and all that jazz
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Question for the larger group...
My buddy who just knocked up his wife will be selling his "toy" car...
240z from 1970, White, no rust.
New clutch
LS1 swap from 2000 Camero
T56
Wilwood disc brakes all around
Sparco seats
Mostly working gauges
LSD from 300ZX
No AC
No rust, good visually
Barely any miles on build... starts up just fine etc.


Car is an absolute beast... Any sort of pointers on the value?
User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8010
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:33 pm Question for the larger group...
My buddy who just knocked up his wife will be selling his "toy" car...
240z from 1970, White, no rust.
New clutch
LS1 swap from 2000 Camero
T56
Wilwood disc brakes all around
Sparco seats
Mostly working gauges
LSD from 300ZX
No AC
No rust, good visually
Barely any miles on build... starts up just fine etc.


Car is an absolute beast... Any sort of pointers on the value?
I'm thinking like $8k I'll be there with cash next weekend.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

CaleDeRoo wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:40 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:33 pm Question for the larger group...
My buddy who just knocked up his wife will be selling his "toy" car...
240z from 1970, White, no rust.
New clutch
LS1 swap from 2000 Camero
T56
Wilwood disc brakes all around
Sparco seats
Mostly working gauges
LSD from 300ZX
No AC
No rust, good visually
Barely any miles on build... starts up just fine etc.


Car is an absolute beast... Any sort of pointers on the value?
I'm thinking like $8k I'll be there with cash next weekend.
I think it's worth that in parts alone... not to mention a rust free 240z shell.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

max225 wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:19 pm :wrong:

The extra weight was because they were solid feeling and very quiet - and they did deliver 42+ mpg highway which was well ahead of the civic before it went turbro.
I dunno not in my rental experience they didn't. I averaged right around 30 (it wasn't an eco model, regular 1.4T), granted it was an automatic. While the same gen civic was averaging 35 on a shittier rating.
100% agreed on the quietness though. The civics were tin cans in comparison.
Ah yeah, the NA base engine kinda sucked. The turbro was good, especially con :manuel: in part because they chose perfect gear ratios... Short 1-2 for reasonable acceleration, super long 5-6 for economy. It even came stock with lightweight :ramz: and a few aero bits for drag reduction in "eco" trim. Really solid package.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

troyguitar wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:41 pm
max225 wrote:
I dunno not in my rental experience they didn't. I averaged right around 30 (it wasn't an eco model, regular 1.4T), granted it was an automatic. While the same gen civic was averaging 35 on a shittier rating.
100% agreed on the quietness though. The civics were tin cans in comparison.
Ah yeah, the NA base engine kinda sucked. The turbro was good, especially con :manuel: in part because they chose perfect gear ratios... Short 1-2 for reasonable acceleration, super long 5-6 for economy. It even came stock with lightweight :ramz: and a few aero bits for drag reduction in "eco" trim. Really solid package.
The 6 speed auto was just... such a slushbox... pretty terribad. But yeah I :member: something about 195 eco prius tires with no grip+small wheels+some electric aero crap to squeeze that 40+ rating out.. but it was sort of an odd trim... you paid more to get the superior mpg... but it made for an uglier car and a shittier driving experience. The LTZ trim was really nice inside.
User avatar
Huckleberry
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Posts: 2413
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
Drives: 2004 GTO
Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.

troyguitar wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:15 pm ]I almost bought a Cruze Eco :manuel: in 2011. Those are good cars. Probably cheap as hell now too. I think I'm stuck with the Lincoln until it rusts away or blows up :doe:
I bought one in 2012 because I needed to ditch the Sierra due to my increased commute for work. While it did deliver on the fuel economy promise, it sucked in every other aspect. I wouldn't get another one.
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:17 pm Those cruises with the 1.4 were weird vehicles... 500lbs heavier than the competition with a tiny 1.4 engine that was completely gutless, but promised "superior" mpg to a civic yet never delivered it.
The engine was completely gutless, but it did deliver on the ratings. Mine was a 6 speed Eco.

Boy, was it gutless, though. If I was cruising in 6th on the highway, a slight incline required me to downshift into 5th just to maintain speed.
User avatar
Huckleberry
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Posts: 2413
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
Drives: 2004 GTO
Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.

max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:43 pm
troyguitar wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:41 pm Ah yeah, the NA base engine kinda sucked. The turbro was good, especially con :manuel: in part because they chose perfect gear ratios... Short 1-2 for reasonable acceleration, super long 5-6 for economy. It even came stock with lightweight :ramz: and a few aero bits for drag reduction in "eco" trim. Really solid package.
The 6 speed auto was just... such a slushbox... pretty terribad. But yeah I :member: something about 195 eco prius tires with no grip+small wheels+some electric aero crap to squeeze that 40+ rating out.. but it was sort of an odd trim... you paid more to get the superior mpg... but it made for an uglier car and a shittier driving experience. The LTZ trim was really nice inside.
I paid $18-$19K for my Eco brand new. The Eco trim had the aero bits but was otherwise rather spartan, which never really bothered me.
User avatar
Huckleberry
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Posts: 2413
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
Drives: 2004 GTO
Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.

max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:33 pm Question for the larger group...
My buddy who just knocked up his wife will be selling his "toy" car...
240z from 1970, White, no rust.
New clutch
LS1 swap from 2000 Camero
T56
Wilwood disc brakes all around
Sparco seats
Mostly working gauges
LSD from 300ZX
No AC
No rust, good visually
Barely any miles on build... starts up just fine etc.


Car is an absolute beast... Any sort of pointers on the value?
If it is clean and actually rust-free, $20K. These cars have been going up in value recently. I was originally looking at getting one to swap a V8 into, but the high potential for getting a rust bucket coupled with the rising prices caused me to skip and jump on a deal for a 944.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:11 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:33 pm Question for the larger group...
My buddy who just knocked up his wife will be selling his "toy" car...
240z from 1970, White, no rust.
New clutch
LS1 swap from 2000 Camero
T56
Wilwood disc brakes all around
Sparco seats
Mostly working gauges
LSD from 300ZX
No AC
No rust, good visually
Barely any miles on build... starts up just fine etc.


Car is an absolute beast... Any sort of pointers on the value?
If it is clean and actually rust-free, $20K. These cars have been going up in value recently. I was originally looking at getting one to swap a V8 into, but the high potential for getting a rust bucket coupled with the rising prices caused me to skip and jump on a deal for a 944.
California car for 40 years, garaged for decades, yes it is rust free. 20k seems lowish for a swapped vehicle... I think he paid about 18.5k about 7 years ago, and put another 5-7k into it... and values have been rising... Interesting.

It would take at least 25k-30k to do this swap today... and that's before body work etc.
User avatar
goIftdibrad
Chief Master Soft Brain
Chief Master Soft Brain
Posts: 16746
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:01 am
Drives: straight past the apex

max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:11 pm

If it is clean and actually rust-free, $20K. These cars have been going up in value recently. I was originally looking at getting one to swap a V8 into, but the high potential for getting a rust bucket coupled with the rising prices caused me to skip and jump on a deal for a 944.
California car for 40 years, garaged for decades, yes it is rust free. 20k seems lowish for a swapped vehicle... I think he paid about 18.5k about 7 years ago, and put another 5-7k into it... and values have been rising... Interesting.

It would take at least 25k-30k to do this swap today... and that's before body work etc.
the market is the market. If its as clean as you say and he has the paperwork for cali, BAT is the best bet and might get up into the 25k rage. Or prove me wrong and it crushed 30k plus and good for your buddy.
brain go brrrrrr
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

Big Brain Bradley wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:15 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 pm

California car for 40 years, garaged for decades, yes it is rust free. 20k seems lowish for a swapped vehicle... I think he paid about 18.5k about 7 years ago, and put another 5-7k into it... and values have been rising... Interesting.

It would take at least 25k-30k to do this swap today... and that's before body work etc.
the market is the market. If its as clean as you say and he has the paperwork for cali, BAT is the best bet and might get up into the 25k rage. Or prove me wrong and it crushed 30k plus and good for your buddy.
Yep, that's a BAT car.
User avatar
Huckleberry
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Posts: 2413
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
Drives: 2004 GTO
Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.

max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:11 pm

If it is clean and actually rust-free, $20K. These cars have been going up in value recently. I was originally looking at getting one to swap a V8 into, but the high potential for getting a rust bucket coupled with the rising prices caused me to skip and jump on a deal for a 944.
California car for 40 years, garaged for decades, yes it is rust free. 20k seems lowish for a swapped vehicle... I think he paid about 18.5k about 7 years ago, and put another 5-7k into it... and values have been rising... Interesting.

It would take at least 25k-30k to do this swap today... and that's before body work etc.
$25-$30K? Maybe if the shop buys everything for you, including the car.

If you are doing it on your own, it would only take a few grand to accomplish. Those engine bays are extremely roomy. Like I said, I spent a lot of time looking into this.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:17 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 pm

California car for 40 years, garaged for decades, yes it is rust free. 20k seems lowish for a swapped vehicle... I think he paid about 18.5k about 7 years ago, and put another 5-7k into it... and values have been rising... Interesting.

It would take at least 25k-30k to do this swap today... and that's before body work etc.
$25-$30K? Maybe if the shop buys everything for you, including the car.

If you are doing it on your own, it would only take a few grand to accomplish. Those engine bays are extremely roomy. Like I said, I spent a lot of time looking into this.
Links to $500 rust free 240z shells please. I'll buy every single one of them right the fuck now.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:17 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 pm

California car for 40 years, garaged for decades, yes it is rust free. 20k seems lowish for a swapped vehicle... I think he paid about 18.5k about 7 years ago, and put another 5-7k into it... and values have been rising... Interesting.

It would take at least 25k-30k to do this swap today... and that's before body work etc.
$25-$30K? Maybe if the shop buys everything for you, including the car.

If you are doing it on your own, it would only take a few grand to accomplish. Those engine bays are extremely roomy. Like I said, I spent a lot of time looking into this.
Would love to know how you're calculating this... Myself and him spent a long time searching for 240s, we went through 3 (including the one in question).
A clean 240Z with no rust is about 8-14k, depending on when you get it...
LS+Trans+custom ECU ~ 3-4k + miscelanious shit that you gotta do, like a custom radiator +fuel cell etc. You're easily 5k for just the powertrain....
Then the suspension+brakes+wheels+tires+ rear diff ~4-5k
Exhaust is all custom obviously...
You also need to do some modifications for the steering rack to fit

So we're talking 10k in PARTS + 10k in car... 0 labor... and it isn't that simple to do all that shit... if you have a shop do it, you add at least 10k in labor...

Then this car also has a roll bar+harness + good seats. I honestly can't imagine anyone recreating this for under 20k, not saying this is a one of a kind showroom build ... but it is what it it is
User avatar
Huckleberry
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Posts: 2413
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
Drives: 2004 GTO
Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.

troyguitar wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:19 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:17 pm

$25-$30K? Maybe if the shop buys everything for you, including the car.

If you are doing it on your own, it would only take a few grand to accomplish. Those engine bays are extremely roomy. Like I said, I spent a lot of time looking into this.
Links to $500 rust free 240z shells please. I'll buy every single one of them right the fuck now.
I don't recall saying a shell would cost you $500?
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

Huckleberry wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:19 pm Links to $500 rust free 240z shells please. I'll buy every single one of them right the fuck now.
I don't recall saying a shell would cost you $500?
If you are including the shell in the $25k quote, it has to be basically free.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Pic of car in question. and my old 370z :( RIP

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
Irish
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:37 am
Drives: '12 GIT (190K!)- 2011 Outie A5
Location: Carlisle PA

max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:27 pm Pic of car in question. and my old 370z :( RIP

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:jizz:
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

That car is going to take a VERY specific buyer. I agree that BAT is probably the best way to let the market decide what it's worth. Could be anywhere from $15-40k all depends on the person.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Detroit wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:45 pm That car is going to take a VERY specific buyer. I agree that BAT is probably the best way to let the market decide what it's worth. Could be anywhere from $15-40k all depends on the person.
Does BAT have minimums ? I think as long as he at least recoups some of the money it would be worth while. I'll help him with the ad etc.

I think "he" wants 30k, which IMO is unrealistic, but I think as long as it goes above 20k its fine...

There is very little for 20k that is this unique.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:47 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:45 pm That car is going to take a VERY specific buyer. I agree that BAT is probably the best way to let the market decide what it's worth. Could be anywhere from $15-40k all depends on the person.
Does BAT have minimums ? I think as long as he at least recoups some of the money it would be worth while. I'll help him with the ad etc.

I think "he" wants 30k, which IMO is unrealistic, but I think as long as it goes above 20k its fine...

There is very little for 20k that is this unique.
You can do a reserve auction. They actually help write the ad and everything.

It's super hard to place a value on. Agreed $30k is a stretch...$20k is very possible :doe:

Engine swapped vehicles are just super hit or miss. It's gotta check all the right boxes for a :waxer:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Huckleberry
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Posts: 2413
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
Drives: 2004 GTO
Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.

max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:23 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:17 pm

$25-$30K? Maybe if the shop buys everything for you, including the car.

If you are doing it on your own, it would only take a few grand to accomplish. Those engine bays are extremely roomy. Like I said, I spent a lot of time looking into this.
Would love to know how you're calculating this... Myself and him spent a long time searching for 240s, we went through 3 (including the one in question).
A clean 240Z with no rust is about 8-14k, depending on when you get it...
LS+Trans+custom ECU ~ 3-4k + miscelanious shit that you gotta do, like a custom radiator +fuel cell etc. You're easily 5k for just the powertrain....
Then the suspension+brakes+wheels+tires+ rear diff ~4-5k
Exhaust is all custom obviously...
You also need to do some modifications for the steering rack to fit

So we're talking 10k in PARTS + 10k in car... 0 labor... and it isn't that simple to do all that shit... if you have a shop do it, you add at least 10k in labor...

Then this car also has a roll bar+harness + good seats. I honestly can't imagine anyone recreating this for under 20k, not saying this is a one of a kind showroom build ... but it is what it it is
Sigh...

Gen IV 5.3: $800-$1000
Gen III 5.3: $500
If you pay any more than $1500 for an LS1 longblock nowadays, you're a fool.

AR5 trans: $700
Bellhousing adapter: $400
4l60E bellhousing: $80
LS7 clutch kit: $400

Holley Terminator X standalone ECU and harness: $1000
OR convert the factory LS harness to standalone and disable VATS on the existing computer.

Radiator: $250
16" Spal Fan: $100

C5 fuel filter/regulator: $50
-6AN pushlock line and fittings: $150
Fuel pump: $100

Swap brackets and mounts: $400
Exhaust: $500
Driveshaft: $500

So, I'm at around $5900 to do the swap, and that's allocating a grand for the engine and not searching for deals. For example, I have the swap brackets and mounts already that I scored for $100, and I have a line on a Gen III 5.3 that is wrapped up on an engine stand and looking for a new home.

In order to replicate your friend's car? I have no idea because I don't know what is in it, but to just do an LS swap? It won't be anywhere near $25-$30K.
Also, hardly anyone ever recoups their modification money selling the car as a whole.
Locked