Car Talk 4: The Richard Hertz Rent-A-Car 500

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Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:57 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:23 pm
Would love to know how you're calculating this... Myself and him spent a long time searching for 240s, we went through 3 (including the one in question).
A clean 240Z with no rust is about 8-14k, depending on when you get it...
LS+Trans+custom ECU ~ 3-4k + miscelanious shit that you gotta do, like a custom radiator +fuel cell etc. You're easily 5k for just the powertrain....
Then the suspension+brakes+wheels+tires+ rear diff ~4-5k
Exhaust is all custom obviously...
You also need to do some modifications for the steering rack to fit

So we're talking 10k in PARTS + 10k in car... 0 labor... and it isn't that simple to do all that shit... if you have a shop do it, you add at least 10k in labor...

Then this car also has a roll bar+harness + good seats. I honestly can't imagine anyone recreating this for under 20k, not saying this is a one of a kind showroom build ... but it is what it it is
Sigh...

Gen IV 5.3: $800-$1000
Gen III 5.3: $500
If you pay any more than $1500 for an LS1 longblock nowadays, you're a fool.

AR5 trans: $700
Bellhousing adapter: $400
4l60E bellhousing: $80
LS7 clutch kit: $400

Holley Terminator X standalone ECU and harness: $1000
OR convert the factory LS harness to standalone and disable VATS on the existing computer.

Radiator: $250
16" Spal Fan: $100

C5 fuel filter/regulator: $50
-6AN pushlock line and fittings: $150
Fuel pump: $100

Swap brackets and mounts: $400
Exhaust: $500
Driveshaft: $500

So, I'm at around $5900 to do the swap, and that's allocating a grand for the engine and not searching for deals. For example, I have the swap brackets and mounts already that I scored for $100, and I have a line on a Gen III 5.3 that is wrapped up on an engine stand and looking for a new home.

In order to replicate your friend's car? I have no idea because I don't know what is in it, but to just do an LS swap? It won't be anywhere near $25-$30K.
Also, hardly anyone ever recoups their modification money selling the car as a whole.
:dat: :dat: :dat: :dat: :dat:

Mods=lighting money on fire
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I want that Z.

Yeah BAT is the way to go. 🦇
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Huckleberry wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:57 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:23 pm
Would love to know how you're calculating this... Myself and him spent a long time searching for 240s, we went through 3 (including the one in question).
A clean 240Z with no rust is about 8-14k, depending on when you get it...
LS+Trans+custom ECU ~ 3-4k + miscelanious shit that you gotta do, like a custom radiator +fuel cell etc. You're easily 5k for just the powertrain....
Then the suspension+brakes+wheels+tires+ rear diff ~4-5k
Exhaust is all custom obviously...
You also need to do some modifications for the steering rack to fit

So we're talking 10k in PARTS + 10k in car... 0 labor... and it isn't that simple to do all that shit... if you have a shop do it, you add at least 10k in labor...

Then this car also has a roll bar+harness + good seats. I honestly can't imagine anyone recreating this for under 20k, not saying this is a one of a kind showroom build ... but it is what it it is
Sigh...

Gen IV 5.3: $800-$1000
Gen III 5.3: $500
If you pay any more than $1500 for an LS1 longblock nowadays, you're a fool.

AR5 trans: $700
Bellhousing adapter: $400
4l60E bellhousing: $80
LS7 clutch kit: $400

Holley Terminator X standalone ECU and harness: $1000
OR convert the factory LS harness to standalone and disable VATS on the existing computer.

Radiator: $250
16" Spal Fan: $100

C5 fuel filter/regulator: $50
-6AN pushlock line and fittings: $150
Fuel pump: $100

Swap brackets and mounts: $400
Exhaust: $500
Driveshaft: $500

So, I'm at around $5900 to do the swap, and that's allocating a grand for the engine and not searching for deals. For example, I have the swap brackets and mounts already that I scored for $100, and I have a line on a Gen III 5.3 that is wrapped up on an engine stand and looking for a new home.

In order to replicate your friend's car? I have no idea because I don't know what is in it, but to just do an LS swap? It won't be anywhere near $25-$30K.
Also, hardly anyone ever recoups their modification money selling the car as a whole.
Right so .... what’s your all in cost to make an ls1 one, not a 5.3 with a 5 speed. We’re talking ls1/t56 + shell etc. you’re missing tons of parts like brakes/gauges/wheels and tires etc.

I am not saying mods need to be recouped just looking for fair market value. I have 0 skin in the game so I :aintcare:

The going rate for decent ls swapped cars here was 20-40k depending on body condition and swap quality.
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max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:39 pm https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/ ... 06074.html

This is 11k....
:jizz: I would love to have this sitting in my garage.....
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That thing is awesome... but man, I'd hate to be the guy with a bunch of money into something like that, trying to get it back. Car modifications depreciate faster than luxury sedans.
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max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:39 pm https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/ ... 06074.html

This is 11k....
Asking price. I doubt he'll get that.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/sub ... ps-in.html

This is very interesting... my fav :doge: :dillerman: sold 4200 cars in 2018... holy shit.... Also check out tesla... 8300.. fremont toyota at 5000cars... just wow... these dudes sling 14 cars a day with no holiday etc.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:46 pm
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:39 pm https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/ ... 06074.html

This is 11k....
Asking price. I doubt he'll get that.
:dat:

This is going to take some nerd that loves the 240z.

To me, the first thing I see with Max's friends car is "If that guy half-assed anything, I'm going to be dropping another $5-15K into this to make it correct." That immediately cuts the price ceiling pretty low for a car that you're probably never getting your money out of.

Tell him to clean the thing to a shine and get 800 pics and put it on BAT and be active in the discussion for the posting. Although, be ready for no sale if he does a reserve auction. Most of the auctions that go for good money are no-reserve and generate a lot of interest. Many people won't even look twice at a reserve auction.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:06 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:46 pm
Asking price. I doubt he'll get that.
:dat:

This is going to take some nerd that loves the 240z.

To me, the first thing I see with Max's friends car is "If that guy half-assed anything, I'm going to be dropping another $5-15K into this to make it correct." That immediately cuts the price ceiling pretty low for a car that you're probably never getting your money out of.

Tell him to clean the thing to a shine and get 800 pics and put it on BAT and be active in the discussion for the posting. Although, be ready for no sale if he does a reserve auction. Most of the auctions that go for good money are no-reserve and generate a lot of interest. Many people won't even look twice at a reserve auction.
Well ideally I just wouldn't want him to only get 5k out of it through BAT. I think he will also keep it at under 15k.

Is that car perfect? FK no... but is it decent ? yes... We did quite a bit of research and I actually went with him on a 200 mile road trip to pick up the vehicle 7 years ago..

It is a very cool and fun vehicle. 2200lbs 360whp, V8 sounds that are just incredible. It doesn't leak, smoke starts every time and is mechanically pretty close to perfect. on the flip-side it is a scary deathtrap with no AC, radio. This isn't a car to look at and say... o yea, lets compare it to a 2016 mustang GT. Obviously different strokes for different folks...

But it is smog exempt.. so it doesn't need cats, is like $200 a year to insure, and $50 a year to register. Which makes it an epic thing to hold on to long term.I am a giant fucking bastard, and don't fit so well into something designed by 5'5" japanese men, otherwise i may even consider it for myself. I am sure he'd off it for 20k to me.
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max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:29 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:06 pm

:dat:

This is going to take some nerd that loves the 240z.

To me, the first thing I see with Max's friends car is "If that guy half-assed anything, I'm going to be dropping another $5-15K into this to make it correct." That immediately cuts the price ceiling pretty low for a car that you're probably never getting your money out of.

Tell him to clean the thing to a shine and get 800 pics and put it on BAT and be active in the discussion for the posting. Although, be ready for no sale if he does a reserve auction. Most of the auctions that go for good money are no-reserve and generate a lot of interest. Many people won't even look twice at a reserve auction.
Well ideally I just wouldn't want him to only get 5k out of it through BAT. I think he will also keep it at under 15k.

Is that car perfect? FK no... but is it decent ? yes... We did quite a bit of research and I actually went with him on a 200 mile road trip to pick up the vehicle 7 years ago..

It is a very cool and fun vehicle. 2200lbs 360whp, V8 sounds that are just incredible. It doesn't leak, smoke starts every time and is mechanically pretty close to perfect. on the flip-side it is a scary deathtrap with no AC, radio. This isn't a car to look at and say... o yea, lets compare it to a 2016 mustang GT. Obviously different strokes for different folks...

But it is smog exempt.. so it doesn't need cats, is like $200 a year to insure, and $50 a year to register. Which makes it an epic thing to hold on to long term.I am a giant fucking bastard, and don't fit so well into something designed by 5'5" japanese men, otherwise i may even consider it for myself. I am sure he'd off it for 20k to me.
I'm sure it's great, but to an unknowing buyer, these are the things they will be thinking.

This is a whole other level from something like my 4th gen SS that I put ~$12 into for engine work and everything else, it added exactly $ZERO to my resale value and actually made it somewhat hard to find a buyer.
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max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:29 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:06 pm

:dat:

This is going to take some nerd that loves the 240z.

To me, the first thing I see with Max's friends car is "If that guy half-assed anything, I'm going to be dropping another $5-15K into this to make it correct." That immediately cuts the price ceiling pretty low for a car that you're probably never getting your money out of.

Tell him to clean the thing to a shine and get 800 pics and put it on BAT and be active in the discussion for the posting. Although, be ready for no sale if he does a reserve auction. Most of the auctions that go for good money are no-reserve and generate a lot of interest. Many people won't even look twice at a reserve auction.
Well ideally I just wouldn't want him to only get 5k out of it through BAT. I think he will also keep it at under 15k.

Is that car perfect? FK no... but is it decent ? yes... We did quite a bit of research and I actually went with him on a 200 mile road trip to pick up the vehicle 7 years ago..

It is a very cool and fun vehicle. 2200lbs 360whp, V8 sounds that are just incredible. It doesn't leak, smoke starts every time and is mechanically pretty close to perfect. on the flip-side it is a scary deathtrap with no AC, radio. This isn't a car to look at and say... o yea, lets compare it to a 2016 mustang GT. Obviously different strokes for different folks...

But it is smog exempt.. so it doesn't need cats, is like $200 a year to insure, and $50 a year to register. Which makes it an epic thing to hold on to long term.I am a giant fucking bastard, and don't fit so well into something designed by 5'5" japanese men, otherwise i may even consider it for myself. I am sure he'd off it for 20k to me.
Does it have a cage/any track mods/time?

Asking for a friend.
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D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:30 am
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:29 pm

Well ideally I just wouldn't want him to only get 5k out of it through BAT. I think he will also keep it at under 15k.

Is that car perfect? FK no... but is it decent ? yes... We did quite a bit of research and I actually went with him on a 200 mile road trip to pick up the vehicle 7 years ago..

It is a very cool and fun vehicle. 2200lbs 360whp, V8 sounds that are just incredible. It doesn't leak, smoke starts every time and is mechanically pretty close to perfect. on the flip-side it is a scary deathtrap with no AC, radio. This isn't a car to look at and say... o yea, lets compare it to a 2016 mustang GT. Obviously different strokes for different folks...

But it is smog exempt.. so it doesn't need cats, is like $200 a year to insure, and $50 a year to register. Which makes it an epic thing to hold on to long term.I am a giant fucking bastard, and don't fit so well into something designed by 5'5" japanese men, otherwise i may even consider it for myself. I am sure he'd off it for 20k to me.
Does it have a cage/any track mods/time?

Asking for a friend.
Has a partial cage and 4 point harness, no track time. I mean think of this as a C5 with 1000lbs taken out of it, the entire Powertrain is completely under stressed.
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D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:30 am
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:29 pm

Well ideally I just wouldn't want him to only get 5k out of it through BAT. I think he will also keep it at under 15k.

Is that car perfect? FK no... but is it decent ? yes... We did quite a bit of research and I actually went with him on a 200 mile road trip to pick up the vehicle 7 years ago..

It is a very cool and fun vehicle. 2200lbs 360whp, V8 sounds that are just incredible. It doesn't leak, smoke starts every time and is mechanically pretty close to perfect. on the flip-side it is a scary deathtrap with no AC, radio. This isn't a car to look at and say... o yea, lets compare it to a 2016 mustang GT. Obviously different strokes for different folks...

But it is smog exempt.. so it doesn't need cats, is like $200 a year to insure, and $50 a year to register. Which makes it an epic thing to hold on to long term.I am a giant fucking bastard, and don't fit so well into something designed by 5'5" japanese men, otherwise i may even consider it for myself. I am sure he'd off it for 20k to me.
Does it have a cage/any track mods/time?

Asking for a friend.
:doit:
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:09 am
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:29 pm

Well ideally I just wouldn't want him to only get 5k out of it through BAT. I think he will also keep it at under 15k.

Is that car perfect? FK no... but is it decent ? yes... We did quite a bit of research and I actually went with him on a 200 mile road trip to pick up the vehicle 7 years ago..

It is a very cool and fun vehicle. 2200lbs 360whp, V8 sounds that are just incredible. It doesn't leak, smoke starts every time and is mechanically pretty close to perfect. on the flip-side it is a scary deathtrap with no AC, radio. This isn't a car to look at and say... o yea, lets compare it to a 2016 mustang GT. Obviously different strokes for different folks...

But it is smog exempt.. so it doesn't need cats, is like $200 a year to insure, and $50 a year to register. Which makes it an epic thing to hold on to long term.I am a giant fucking bastard, and don't fit so well into something designed by 5'5" japanese men, otherwise i may even consider it for myself. I am sure he'd off it for 20k to me.
I'm sure it's great, but to an unknowing buyer, these are the things they will be thinking.

This is a whole other level from something like my 4th gen SS that I put ~$12 into for engine work and everything else, it added exactly $ZERO to my resale value and actually made it somewhat hard to find a buyer.
:dat: :dat: :dat:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:47 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:45 pm That car is going to take a VERY specific buyer. I agree that BAT is probably the best way to let the market decide what it's worth. Could be anywhere from $15-40k all depends on the person.
Does BAT have minimums ? I think as long as he at least recoups some of the money it would be worth while. I'll help him with the ad etc.

I think "he" wants 30k, which IMO is unrealistic, but I think as long as it goes above 20k its fine...

There is very little for 20k that is this unique.
They also wont accept just any car. They have some fairly rigid policies on sales and buying.

They have to WANT your car. They also handle the writing and the give you a ballpark on what they think they can sell it for. You just take a lot of HQ pics.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:46 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:30 am

Does it have a cage/any track mods/time?

Asking for a friend.
Has a partial cage and 4 point harness, no track time. I mean think of this as a C5 with 1000lbs taken out of it, the entire Powertrain is completely under stressed.
Oh wow... the harnesses/partial cage is :nice: ... Do want this thing. It would probably be a miserable vehicle to do a cross country trip in :doe: :notsure:
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D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:47 am
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:46 am
Has a partial cage and 4 point harness, no track time. I mean think of this as a C5 with 1000lbs taken out of it, the entire Powertrain is completely under stressed.
Oh wow... the harnesses/partial cage is :nice: ... Do want this thing. It would probably be a miserable vehicle to do a cross country trip in :doe: :notsure:
Cross country would be wild ... it’s currently getting some minor work done at a shop and I can refresh my memory of it once I’m breaking it in.
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https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2010-bmw-335d-2/

Holy fuck someone blew a ton of cash building this thing. 454 hp 732 torx diesel wagon with M3 suspension. :mindblown:
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max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:39 pm https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/ ... 06074.html

This is 11k....
He won't get anywhere near that. Last summer, there was a 280Z that was from Nevada, completely redone with 240Z bumpers, and an LT4/T5 on Craigslist for $15K. That car sat for months on end and it looked absolutely pristine with full documentation of the restoration and build.

That guy wanting $11K for a beat car with a non-running SBC bolted in is retarded.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:52 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:47 am

Oh wow... the harnesses/partial cage is :nice: ... Do want this thing. It would probably be a miserable vehicle to do a cross country trip in :doe: :notsure:
Cross country would be wild ... it’s currently getting some minor work done at a shop and I can refresh my memory of it once I’m breaking it in.
No a/c correct?

Oof. Would be epic :doe:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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troyguitar wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:55 am https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2010-bmw-335d-2/

Holy fuck someone blew a ton of cash building this thing. 454 hp 732 torx diesel wagon with M3 suspension. :mindblown:
Cedar Springs is :waxer: AF. It's likely those photos are taken in the owner's hangar with his planes in the background. ZFG money.

This is incredible.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:57 am
max225 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:39 pm https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/ ... 06074.html

This is 11k....
He won't get anywhere near that. Last summer, there was a 280Z that was from Nevada, completely redone with 240Z bumpers, and an LT4/T5 on Craigslist for $15K. That car sat for months on end and it looked absolutely pristine with full documentation of the restoration and build.

That guy wanting $11K for a beat car with a non-running SBC bolted in is retarded.
Pretty much..

This was in my inbox today: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-datsun-240z-41/

1970 240Z.
Accident way back.
Repainted red from a kind of rare yellow.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:57 am
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:52 am

Cross country would be wild ... it’s currently getting some minor work done at a shop and I can refresh my memory of it once I’m breaking it in.
No a/c correct?

Oof. Would be epic :doe:
Nope. No ac.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:52 am
D Griff wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:47 am

Oh wow... the harnesses/partial cage is :nice: ... Do want this thing. It would probably be a miserable vehicle to do a cross country trip in :doe: :notsure:
Cross country would be wild ... it’s currently getting some minor work done at a shop and I can refresh my memory of it once I’m breaking it in.
Definitely in4more info. I am sort of seriously thinking about this... kinda the only thing that would be a real, worthwhile upgrade from the C5 to me, without spending a bunch of money. That said, the extra $10K I'd likely have to throw on top is kind of :disgust: .
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