Car Talk 4: The Richard Hertz Rent-A-Car 500

[CaleDeRoo]

Mr chef has driven the Stelvio multiple times and really really liked it.

[max225]

Starting to wonder if a #basic McQueen spec 328i or something would be a better pick for me. 2.0T Giulia, S60, etc.

Anyone have seat time in both the sedan and the CUV counterpart care to share how they handle bullshit roads? I’d think less weight would crash less but more suspension travel may ride softer??

New S60 is a looker and a half but $46k ish ouch.

Granted I’m used to a bus and but my 328i even with M Sport suspension rides quite nicely and soaks up potholes quite well. I’d probably get some 17s/marshmallows if I lived in Baghdad, but I think it would work well. It’s a bit fun but overall just a nice commute machine that is rather fuel efficient and affordable.

I was shooting the shit with a dude last night who leases a Guilia, he loves it but says the reliability has been awful, sadly. It’s stranded him a few times.

Used is key in this category... my $42k MSRP car was $21k with 15k miles...

if a rally Subaru is deemed unworthy I wouldn’t get a 3series. They are only ok for that type of ride in basic bitch non sport and 17” trim. The cross tranny however ... is epic for Bagdad

[Swedish Chef]

Mr chef has driven the Stelvio multiple times and really really liked it.

They really are.

Not sold on the engine but I love the quick steering on those things.

[troyguitar]

Same price to buy, same size and form factor, same wheelbase, same type of transmission 7-speed DCT, same super quick ratio steering, same availability of base cloth sport seats and no sunroof and folding rear seats without the rest of the car being super base.



Do you have a better option for me?

In 4 results. Would you cross shop it with an Si? The Honda will hold value better.

No auto available and I'm not paying for premium fuel. There are precious few cars that are small-ish with fast steering, decent ride/handling, a good automatic, and decent running costs. A3 sedan or might be an option, amusingly I can't find steering ratios for VW/audi.

The E90 M3 is the ultimate in drive but I'm realistically not going to be OK with the running costs. We'd be back to taking the wife's car everywhere at which point I never drive mine. I'm not replacing rod bearings without a garage either.

[max225]

In 4 results. Would you cross shop it with an Si? The Honda will hold value better.

No auto available and I'm not paying for premium fuel. There are precious few cars that are small-ish with fast steering, decent ride/handling, a good automatic, and decent running costs. A3 sedan or might be an option, amusingly I can't find steering ratios for VW/audi.

The E90 M3 is the ultimate in drive but I'm realistically not going to be OK with the running costs. We'd be back to taking the wife's car everywhere at which point I never drive mine. I'm not replacing rod bearings without a garage either.

have you considered a mini ? Pooper S with auto should be right around 12-13k.

[Gberg2119]

E90 M3 vs Kiaundai Fortlantra?
Seems legit.

Same price to buy, same size and form factor, same wheelbase, same type of transmission 7-speed DCT, same super quick ratio steering, same availability of base cloth sport seats and no sunroof and folding rear seats without the rest of the car being super base.



Do you have a better option for me?

My brother has the new Elantra GT with the DCT. I think he got it for around 19k. It's fuck ugly but he seems to like the way it drives although he wants a again.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[CaleDeRoo]

Same price to buy, same size and form factor, same wheelbase, same type of transmission 7-speed DCT, same super quick ratio steering, same availability of base cloth sport seats and no sunroof and folding rear seats without the rest of the car being super base.



Do you have a better option for me?

My brother has the new Elantra GT with the DCT. I think he got it for around 19k. It's fuck ugly but he seems to like the way it drives although he wants a again.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Are we looking at the same car?

[troyguitar]

My brother has the new Elantra GT with the DCT. I think he got it for around 19k. It's fuck ugly but he seems to like the way it drives although he wants a again.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Are we looking at the same car?

They look like a Chinese copy of a Golf or something. It's not great. The Kia version looks better but isn't being sold in the USA.

[Gberg2119]

My brother has the new Elantra GT with the DCT. I think he got it for around 19k. It's fuck ugly but he seems to like the way it drives although he wants a again.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Are we looking at the same car?

Oops. We're not. I meant the Elantra Sport. Same drivetrain as the Kia though with the 1.6T.

[troyguitar]

No auto available and I'm not paying for premium fuel. There are precious few cars that are small-ish with fast steering, decent ride/handling, a good automatic, and decent running costs. A3 sedan or might be an option, amusingly I can't find steering ratios for VW/audi.

The E90 M3 is the ultimate in drive but I'm realistically not going to be OK with the running costs. We'd be back to taking the wife's car everywhere at which point I never drive mine. I'm not replacing rod bearings without a garage either.

have you considered a mini ? Pooper S with auto should be right around 12-13k.

I'd like to try one along with a 228i but I'm kind of thinking that if I go with a used German car then I might as well just get an M3/Cayman like I really want, damn the extra running costs.

If I could get to drive a god damn then there would be so many more options. Been living together for like 10 years already though so it's not going to happen.

[max225]

have you considered a mini ? Pooper S with auto should be right around 12-13k.

I'd like to try one along with a 228i but I'm kind of thinking that if I go with a used German car then I might as well just get an M3/Cayman like I really want, damn the extra running costs.

If I could get to drive a god damn then there would be so many more options. Been living together for like 10 years already though so it's not going to happen.

228i is a solid alternative to a mini are nice ones well under 20 yet ?

[troyguitar]

I'd like to try one along with a 228i but I'm kind of thinking that if I go with a used German car then I might as well just get an M3/Cayman like I really want, damn the extra running costs.

If I could get to drive a god damn then there would be so many more options. Been living together for like 10 years already though so it's not going to happen.

228i is a solid alternative to a mini are nice ones well under 20 yet ?

Some certainly are, still dunno if it's worth the premium and hassle to end up with a heavier douchemobile with slow dead steering, vinyl seats, and an open diff.

MINI is interesting but it's so fucking hard to figure out which options exist in which years and which ones are least likely to cost $500/mo in repairs. Looks like at some point the "S" got an 8AT here but base models are still using the old 6 speed in the USA, while ROW got a 7-speed DCT starting in MY2018... I'd ideally want a short-geared DCT with heated cloth sport seats, preferably a real color outside and any color but black inside. I don't think that exists in this country. Maybe the 8-speed slushbox would be acceptable, dunno.

[D Griff]

have you considered a mini ? Pooper S with auto should be right around 12-13k.

I'd like to try one along with a 228i but I'm kind of thinking that if I go with a used German car then I might as well just get an M3/Cayman like I really want, damn the extra running costs.

If I could get to drive a god damn then there would be so many more options. Been living together for like 10 years already though so it's not going to happen.

I just drive all of the time NFG. Mine can drive it for a couple of hours on the highway if absolutely neccesary (can actually drive it fine but just gets "scared" ).

One thing that's nice with the BMW 228/328 is they will be fully approved for road tripping and the vinyl seats are actually rad. Great for a road trip but not all that fun, maybe a 228i would be better but they weigh about the same as my car. Running costs aren't awful

I think the MINI, despite being FWD, would be a lot more fun.

[Johnny_P]

I'd like to try one along with a 228i but I'm kind of thinking that if I go with a used German car then I might as well just get an M3/Cayman like I really want, damn the extra running costs.

If I could get to drive a god damn then there would be so many more options. Been living together for like 10 years already though so it's not going to happen.

I just drive all of the time NFG. Mine can drive it for a couple of hours on the highway if absolutely neccesary (can actually drive it fine but just gets "scared" ).

One thing that's nice with the BMW 228/328 is they will be fully approved for road tripping and the vinyl seats are actually rad. Great for a road trip but not all that fun, maybe a 228i would be better but they weigh about the same as my car. Running costs aren't awful

I think the MINI, despite being FWD, would be a lot more fun.

My very minimal experience would lead me to the same conclusion. A Mini Cooper S felt more fun with sharper steering and better handling than the 235i. 235i felt more premium, faster, sounded better, better place to spend time. Both rode a little rough. I tried an automatic 235 without bro mode engaged tho.

[max225]

I just drive all of the time NFG. Mine can drive it for a couple of hours on the highway if absolutely neccesary (can actually drive it fine but just gets "scared" ).

One thing that's nice with the BMW 228/328 is they will be fully approved for road tripping and the vinyl seats are actually rad. Great for a road trip but not all that fun, maybe a 228i would be better but they weigh about the same as my car. Running costs aren't awful

I think the MINI, despite being FWD, would be a lot more fun.

My very minimal experience would lead me to the same conclusion. A Mini Cooper S felt more fun with sharper steering and better handling than the 235i. 235i felt more premium, faster, sounded better, better place to spend time. Both rode a little rough. I tried an automatic 235 without bro mode engaged tho.

Did you drive a loaded F gen ? I don’t get the “premium” in the 235, it’s literally the same infotainment (which only comes with the highest package trim), actually the minis has slightly less lag and has better graphics. The bmws also don’t come with toggles for everything. I prefer the mini interior to any 3 series.

My 335i sounded like nothing, mini jcw also sort of sounds like nothing, really similar actually. The Cooper s is def slow compared to a 6 banger bmw, but the better tune really narrows the gap.

Ride is rough in either one At least on the 19s that mine had. But the mini is far more “bouncy” over uneven expansion joints.

I can’t figure out what it is about the mini and handling I think it’s turn in? Or maybe that it’s so short and wide? But even the m3 didn’t feel this agile, you could certainly tell a difference. Some 235i roll on 215s up front also...

[troyguitar]

My very minimal experience would lead me to the same conclusion. A Mini Cooper S felt more fun with sharper steering and better handling than the 235i. 235i felt more premium, faster, sounded better, better place to spend time. Both rode a little rough. I tried an automatic 235 without bro mode engaged tho.

Did you drive a loaded F gen ? I don’t get the “premium” in the 235, it’s literally the same infotainment (which only comes with the highest package trim), actually the minis has slightly less lag and has better graphics. The bmws also don’t come with toggles for everything. I prefer the mini interior to any 3 series.

My 335i sounded like nothing, mini jcw also sort of sounds like nothing, really similar actually. The Cooper s is def slow compared to a 6 banger bmw, but the better tune really narrows the gap.

Ride is rough in either one At least on the 19s that mine had. But the mini is far more “bouncy” over uneven expansion joints.

I can’t figure out what it is about the mini and handling I think it’s turn in? Or maybe that it’s so short and wide? But even the m3 didn’t feel this agile, you could certainly tell a difference. Some 235i roll on 215s up front also...

Weight, wheelbase, and probably alignment.

Smaller wheels and tires are also more lively feeling, despite generally offering less ultimate grip.

I can't find any real specs for MINI stuff like gear or steering ratios. Hell I don't even see tire sizes on their spec sheets.

[Johnny_P]

My very minimal experience would lead me to the same conclusion. A Mini Cooper S felt more fun with sharper steering and better handling than the 235i. 235i felt more premium, faster, sounded better, better place to spend time. Both rode a little rough. I tried an automatic 235 without bro mode engaged tho.

Did you drive a loaded F gen ? I don’t get the “premium” in the 235, it’s literally the same infotainment (which only comes with the highest package trim), actually the minis has slightly less lag and has better graphics. The bmws also don’t come with toggles for everything. I prefer the mini interior to any 3 series.

My 335i sounded like nothing, mini jcw also sort of sounds like nothing, really similar actually. The Cooper s is def slow compared to a 6 banger bmw, but the better tune really narrows the gap.

Ride is rough in either one At least on the 19s that mine had. But the mini is far more “bouncy” over uneven expansion joints.

I can’t figure out what it is about the mini and handling I think it’s turn in? Or maybe that it’s so short and wide? But even the m3 didn’t feel this agile, you could certainly tell a difference. Some 235i roll on 215s up front also...

Yeah it was fully loaded. M235i RWD auto nav cold weather nappy leather etc. I liked the way the interior was arranged and how it felt, etc. More grown up than the Mini, way nicer than the STI, all very visually pleasing. Except the gagues, I didn't like the flat gauge face thing and vastly prefer the STI gauges. I don't mind the Mini interior and arrangement though except for maybe the rev counter which is a bit small. Mini's toggles are def cool, the ones I was looking at had the poverty red radio no navi so I have no clue how nice or not that is. Arm rest on the Mini annoyed the shit out of me so I was looking at getting one without that, or swapping with forumbrahs to get rid of it. My Focus had the same exact arm rest design and I ripped it out and rode around with a hole in my center console I hated it so much. Sound wise I think the 2 is supposed to be louder than the 3 and was similar to the MCS. Both are ok I guess, both sounds die off as revs build which is a little lame.

I think the Mini's throttle response was better which is odd. Its been a long time though, I'd have to go drive both again. And put the 2 in bro mode for the trans at least. Had I done that, I'd probably be driving an M235i right meow. I'd still love to get one, xdrive automatic and put a roof rack on it and a louder exhaust.

[Johnny_P]

Oh. I also love the red illumination on the Mini and thought the headlights with LEDs were pretty decent. Highway passing power was great. Accel was fine really just that motor felt unnecessarily neutered up top which I'm sure the JCW addresses. Same motor makes 240 in the BMW makes 189 in the Mini

[CaleDeRoo]

Did you drive a loaded F gen ? I don’t get the “premium” in the 235, it’s literally the same infotainment (which only comes with the highest package trim), actually the minis has slightly less lag and has better graphics. The bmws also don’t come with toggles for everything. I prefer the mini interior to any 3 series.

My 335i sounded like nothing, mini jcw also sort of sounds like nothing, really similar actually. The Cooper s is def slow compared to a 6 banger bmw, but the better tune really narrows the gap.

Ride is rough in either one At least on the 19s that mine had. But the mini is far more “bouncy” over uneven expansion joints.

I can’t figure out what it is about the mini and handling I think it’s turn in? Or maybe that it’s so short and wide? But even the m3 didn’t feel this agile, you could certainly tell a difference. Some 235i roll on 215s up front also...

Yeah it was fully loaded. M235i RWD auto nav cold weather nappy leather etc. I liked the way the interior was arranged and how it felt, etc. More grown up than the Mini, way nicer than the STI, all very visually pleasing. Except the gagues, I didn't like the flat gauge face thing and vastly prefer the STI gauges. I don't mind the Mini interior and arrangement though except for maybe the rev counter which is a bit small. Mini's toggles are def cool, the ones I was looking at had the poverty red radio no navi so I have no clue how nice or not that is. Arm rest on the Mini annoyed the shit out of me so I was looking at getting one without that, or swapping with forumbrahs to get rid of it. My Focus had the same exact arm rest design and I ripped it out and rode around with a hole in my center console I hated it so much. Sound wise I think the 2 is supposed to be louder than the 3 and was similar to the MCS. Both are ok I guess, both sounds die off as revs build which is a little lame.

I think the Mini's throttle response was better which is odd. Its been a long time though, I'd have to go drive both again. And put the 2 in bro mode for the trans at least. Had I done that, I'd probably be driving an M235i right meow. I'd still love to get one, xdrive automatic and put a roof rack on it and a louder exhaust.

Doesn't x drive ABSOLUTELY kill how those cars drive?

[Johnny_P]

Doesn't x drive ABSOLUTELY kill how those cars drive?

No manual RWD brown diesel station wagon no care. I have no idea never driven one. But not dealing with 1 wheel drive or swapping tires with the seasons so no care. No idea why the 235 is an open diff.

[max225]

Did you drive a loaded F gen ? I don’t get the “premium” in the 235, it’s literally the same infotainment (which only comes with the highest package trim), actually the minis has slightly less lag and has better graphics. The bmws also don’t come with toggles for everything. I prefer the mini interior to any 3 series.

My 335i sounded like nothing, mini jcw also sort of sounds like nothing, really similar actually. The Cooper s is def slow compared to a 6 banger bmw, but the better tune really narrows the gap.

Ride is rough in either one At least on the 19s that mine had. But the mini is far more “bouncy” over uneven expansion joints.

I can’t figure out what it is about the mini and handling I think it’s turn in? Or maybe that it’s so short and wide? But even the m3 didn’t feel this agile, you could certainly tell a difference. Some 235i roll on 215s up front also...

Yeah it was fully loaded. M235i RWD auto nav cold weather nappy leather etc. I liked the way the interior was arranged and how it felt, etc. More grown up than the Mini, way nicer than the STI, all very visually pleasing. Except the gagues, I didn't like the flat gauge face thing and vastly prefer the STI gauges. I don't mind the Mini interior and arrangement though except for maybe the rev counter which is a bit small. Mini's toggles are def cool, the ones I was looking at had the poverty red radio no navi so I have no clue how nice or not that is. Arm rest on the Mini annoyed the shit out of me so I was looking at getting one without that, or swapping with forumbrahs to get rid of it. My Focus had the same exact arm rest design and I ripped it out and rode around with a hole in my center console I hated it so much. Sound wise I think the 2 is supposed to be louder than the 3 and was similar to the MCS. Both are ok I guess, both sounds die off as revs build which is a little lame.

I think the Mini's throttle response was better which is odd. Its been a long time though, I'd have to go drive both again. And put the 2 in bro mode for the trans at least. Had I done that, I'd probably be driving an M235i right meow. I'd still love to get one, xdrive automatic and put a roof rack on it and a louder exhaust.

I was asking the other way around since you preferred the bmw interior. I figured maybe the mini you drove was on the base side. The bmw without the better nav and dash is particularly tough, because you are constantly reminded that you “missed an option”

The bro mode in the bmw sucks because it revs the car too high. I never ended up using it, outside of the 4 banger bmws, which need it to not feel like a Prius.

Throttle response on the jcw is better than m3, which was worlds better than the regular 3 series. It was prettt good in the S also but the s was just slow. I was left longing for more power. But there is a “factory tuning kit” that brings it to jcw power levels for $700.

I have no idea what the arm rest issue is ? It can be folded away and it’s adjustable ? I love it

Also I have no idea why mini decided to put such a shitty rev gauge in the mini. It’s literally the worst part about the car. It’s hard to read and it only does a 1/2 sweep and is just frankly almost unusable.

[max225]

Yeah it was fully loaded. M235i RWD auto nav cold weather nappy leather etc. I liked the way the interior was arranged and how it felt, etc. More grown up than the Mini, way nicer than the STI, all very visually pleasing. Except the gagues, I didn't like the flat gauge face thing and vastly prefer the STI gauges. I don't mind the Mini interior and arrangement though except for maybe the rev counter which is a bit small. Mini's toggles are def cool, the ones I was looking at had the poverty red radio no navi so I have no clue how nice or not that is. Arm rest on the Mini annoyed the shit out of me so I was looking at getting one without that, or swapping with forumbrahs to get rid of it. My Focus had the same exact arm rest design and I ripped it out and rode around with a hole in my center console I hated it so much. Sound wise I think the 2 is supposed to be louder than the 3 and was similar to the MCS. Both are ok I guess, both sounds die off as revs build which is a little lame.

I think the Mini's throttle response was better which is odd. Its been a long time though, I'd have to go drive both again. And put the 2 in bro mode for the trans at least. Had I done that, I'd probably be driving an M235i right meow. I'd still love to get one, xdrive automatic and put a roof rack on it and a louder exhaust.

Doesn't x drive ABSOLUTELY kill how those cars drive?

Not really but it makes it worse... not by much but by a bit

[max225]

Doesn't x drive ABSOLUTELY kill how those cars drive?

No manual RWD brown diesel station wagon no care. I have no idea never driven one. But not dealing with 1 wheel drive or swapping tires with the seasons so no care. No idea why the 235 is an open diff.

I never felt let down by the open diff, there are far bigger issues with that chassis and the factory setup than that. Like brakes, tires and wheels.

[max225]

Did you drive a loaded F gen ? I don’t get the “premium” in the 235, it’s literally the same infotainment (which only comes with the highest package trim), actually the minis has slightly less lag and has better graphics. The bmws also don’t come with toggles for everything. I prefer the mini interior to any 3 series.

My 335i sounded like nothing, mini jcw also sort of sounds like nothing, really similar actually. The Cooper s is def slow compared to a 6 banger bmw, but the better tune really narrows the gap.

Ride is rough in either one At least on the 19s that mine had. But the mini is far more “bouncy” over uneven expansion joints.

I can’t figure out what it is about the mini and handling I think it’s turn in? Or maybe that it’s so short and wide? But even the m3 didn’t feel this agile, you could certainly tell a difference. Some 235i roll on 215s up front also...

Weight, wheelbase, and probably alignment.

Smaller wheels and tires are also more lively feeling, despite generally offering less ultimate grip.

I can't find any real specs for MINI stuff like gear or steering ratios. Hell I don't even see tire sizes on their spec sheets.

I posted gear ratios in my thread when you last asked. The trans is geared a bit weird with 4+ being overdrive gears on the

[CaleDeRoo]

Doesn't x drive ABSOLUTELY kill how those cars drive?

No manual RWD brown diesel station wagon no care. I have no idea never driven one. But not dealing with 1 wheel drive or swapping tires with the seasons so no care. No idea why the 235 is an open diff.

I've only driven my friend's e92 335ix 6mt in the snow but I remember it was very unwilling to rotate compared to my 4eat n/a outback with vlsd and my 5mt n/a outback w/o vlsd. The lack of LSD on those cars does suck, but they did offer a *port installed* option for like $3k