Car Talk 4: The Richard Hertz Rent-A-Car 500

[max225]

Auto debt isn't even all that bad at this point in time.

https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/debt-statistics/

Average monthly payments are rising, too:
$554 for new vehicles, up 5.6% year over year
$391 for used vehicles, up 4.9%
$457 for a new vehicle lease, up 4.6%
The average auto loan term is 69 months for new cars and 65 for used.

This is the truly telling part:
Those with a 780-850 credit score spend 29k on a car
Those with a 660-780 34k
Those with 600-660 33k

The article says that is how much they FINANCE, not spend. So there's nothing new here. People with good credit scores tend to protect themselves from armageddon and puke at the idea of being upside down on a car. So they put a lot more down.........they may be spending a lot more than credit derpz who haven't got a shred of equity in any damn part of their pathetic lives.

How exactly does one "protect" oneself by putting "more money down" the purchase price is the purchase price, your money is your money. You're just moving it from one pocket to another. Whether its borrowed or paid in cash that cost is SUNK the minute you drive away with the car, and that's SPEND that has been FINANCED. That money has factually been spent.

The fact that those with shittier scores borrow more than those with good scores is just if you have a 600-700 credit score you have no business buying anything over $10,000, let alone BORROWING 33k

I think a lot of people really lie to themselves when think about what they can "afford" because that is not a "me" number that is a financial calculation. "Affording" a monthly is just a shitty way to look at it, but that seems to be what people sub 700 credit score are doing. No other explanation as to why they'd "borrow" well over 30k for a fucking car that point.

[Desertbreh]

The article says that is how much they FINANCE, not spend. So there's nothing new here. People with good credit scores tend to protect themselves from armageddon and puke at the idea of being upside down on a car. So they put a lot more down.........they may be spending a lot more than credit derpz who haven't got a shred of equity in any damn part of their pathetic lives.

How exactly does one "protect" oneself by putting "more money down" the purchase price is the purchase price, your money is your money. You're just moving it from one pocket to another. Whether its borrowed or paid in cash that cost is SUNK the minute you drive away with the car, and that's SPEND that has been FINANCED. That money has factually been spent.

The fact that those with shittier scores borrow more than those with good scores is just if you have a 600-700 credit score you have no business buying anything over $10,000, let alone BORROWING 33k

I think a lot of people really lie to themselves when think about what they can "afford" because that is not a "me" number that is a financial calculation. "Affording" a monthly is just a shitty way to look at it, but that seems to be what people sub 700 credit score are doing. No other explanation as to why they'd "borrow" well over 30k for a fucking car that point.

I understand your economic points, you bean counting Russian. But I have a basic philosophy that my car payment ain't going be be higher than $550ish. Anything else makes me feel like a giant d-bag (which may be accurate). I philosophize that if my financial world goes to complete shit, I can not have my car repo'd if the payment is low. Yes, I can simply pay off the one car payment we have. Yes, your one pocket arugment is true. But I simply hate owing people a bunch of money. If I put $30K down on the Ultimate depreciation machine, it won't be underwater, I won't have a four digit car payment, and I won't feel like a fking toolbag.
I understand that in your system I should have put that $30K on some techbro stock instead. Which is one of many reasons I will never have fuck you money. Nonetheless my simplistic existence provides a measure of inner peace. Kind of like a $5K house payment. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that.

[Desertbreh]

Also, poor people buy nice cars to make themselves feel better rather than doing the real work necessary to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.

[max225]

How exactly does one "protect" oneself by putting "more money down" the purchase price is the purchase price, your money is your money. You're just moving it from one pocket to another. Whether its borrowed or paid in cash that cost is SUNK the minute you drive away with the car, and that's SPEND that has been FINANCED. That money has factually been spent.

The fact that those with shittier scores borrow more than those with good scores is just if you have a 600-700 credit score you have no business buying anything over $10,000, let alone BORROWING 33k

I think a lot of people really lie to themselves when think about what they can "afford" because that is not a "me" number that is a financial calculation. "Affording" a monthly is just a shitty way to look at it, but that seems to be what people sub 700 credit score are doing. No other explanation as to why they'd "borrow" well over 30k for a fucking car that point.

I understand your economic points, you bean counting Russian. But I have a basic philosophy that my car payment ain't going be be higher than $550ish. Anything else makes me feel like a giant d-bag (which may be accurate). I philosophize that if my financial world goes to complete shit, I can not have my car repo'd if the payment is low. Yes, I can simply pay off the one car payment we have. Yes, your one pocket arugment is true. But I simply hate owing people a bunch of money. If I put $30K down on the Ultimate depreciation machine, it won't be underwater, I won't have a four digit car payment, and I won't feel like a fking toolbag.
I understand that in your system I should have put that $30K on some techbro stock instead. Which is one of many reasons I will never have fuck you money. Nonetheless my simplistic existence provides a measure of inner peace. Kind of like a $5K house payment. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that.

I'd love a 5k house payment Unfortunately that gets you a glorified Trap House here.

6-7k is really where it is at (all in including taxes blah blah). And that shit is tough. But we also have crazy inflation that has been happening all over the country.... hotels got super pricy too there is almost nothing decent under $200 in major metro areas left (after taxes and fees). So house prices going up.. makes sense... the dollar is simply devaluing incredibly fast as of late... Highest I have seen while being in this country.

[Desertbreh]

I understand your economic points, you bean counting Russian. But I have a basic philosophy that my car payment ain't going be be higher than $550ish. Anything else makes me feel like a giant d-bag (which may be accurate). I philosophize that if my financial world goes to complete shit, I can not have my car repo'd if the payment is low. Yes, I can simply pay off the one car payment we have. Yes, your one pocket arugment is true. But I simply hate owing people a bunch of money. If I put $30K down on the Ultimate depreciation machine, it won't be underwater, I won't have a four digit car payment, and I won't feel like a fking toolbag.
I understand that in your system I should have put that $30K on some techbro stock instead. Which is one of many reasons I will never have fuck you money. Nonetheless my simplistic existence provides a measure of inner peace. Kind of like a $5K house payment. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that.

I'd love a 5k house payment

[coogles]

How exactly does one "protect" oneself by putting "more money down" the purchase price is the purchase price, your money is your money. You're just moving it from one pocket to another. Whether its borrowed or paid in cash that cost is SUNK the minute you drive away with the car, and that's SPEND that has been FINANCED. That money has factually been spent.

The fact that those with shittier scores borrow more than those with good scores is just if you have a 600-700 credit score you have no business buying anything over $10,000, let alone BORROWING 33k

I think a lot of people really lie to themselves when think about what they can "afford" because that is not a "me" number that is a financial calculation. "Affording" a monthly is just a shitty way to look at it, but that seems to be what people sub 700 credit score are doing. No other explanation as to why they'd "borrow" well over 30k for a fucking car that point.

Simple, dude. Flexibility. Buy a new car today, lose your job tomorrow, there's still a path to get out of that car without having to cut a check if you put down a decent amount.

Emergency fund, keep making the payments until you land a new gig, blah blah blah, but people who put $0 down on a car and have a 650 credit score don't have 6 months' expenses saved, either.

[max225]

How exactly does one "protect" oneself by putting "more money down" the purchase price is the purchase price, your money is your money. You're just moving it from one pocket to another. Whether its borrowed or paid in cash that cost is SUNK the minute you drive away with the car, and that's SPEND that has been FINANCED. That money has factually been spent.

The fact that those with shittier scores borrow more than those with good scores is just if you have a 600-700 credit score you have no business buying anything over $10,000, let alone BORROWING 33k

I think a lot of people really lie to themselves when think about what they can "afford" because that is not a "me" number that is a financial calculation. "Affording" a monthly is just a shitty way to look at it, but that seems to be what people sub 700 credit score are doing. No other explanation as to why they'd "borrow" well over 30k for a fucking car that point.

Simple, dude. Flexibility. Buy a new car today, lose your job tomorrow, there's still a path to get out of that car without having to cut a check if you put down a decent amount.

Emergency fund, keep making the payments until you land a new gig, blah blah blah, but people who put $0 down on a car and have a 650 credit score don't have 6 months' expenses saved, either.

The price of the car doesn't change though... So this is all in the eye of the beholder. The spend on the car is the same if you plopped down 29k and financed 1 or if you financed 29 and plopped down 1... you're paying MORE in scenario 2 every time. So you lose your job you're fucked either way... since you're out 30k on a toy, whether it has a payment or not. You're losing the exact same amount... whether you finance or put it all down.

[Johnny_P]

Got a ride in a CX5 to a friend's BBQ party this weekend.
-Really quiet
-Decent I guess interior
-Stereo wasn't bose and wasn't fantastic
-Ride was pretty horrible over shitty south Jersey tar snaked roads
-Accelerated to highway speeds fine with 4 of us in the car
-AC worked

I was really surprised at how bad the ride was though. Maybe because I was in the back seat. But I don't understand why you'd have a ride that rough in a CUV.

it was nice otherwise.

Can't have everything.

Also roads are shit around us.

They really are fucking awful around us
This would be an awesome CUV to own if roads weren't horrific. Then again I see plenty of Mazda CX5s in the city. I think most vehicles have a rough ride where we live.

[Johnny_P]

Simple, dude. Flexibility. Buy a new car today, lose your job tomorrow, there's still a path to get out of that car without having to cut a check if you put down a decent amount.

Emergency fund, keep making the payments until you land a new gig, blah blah blah, but people who put $0 down on a car and have a 650 credit score don't have 6 months' expenses saved, either.

The price of the car doesn't change though... So this is all in the eye of the beholder. The spend on the car is the same if you plopped down 29k and financed 1 or if you financed 29 and plopped down 1... you're paying MORE in scenario 2 every time. So you lose your job you're fucked either way... since you're out 30k on a toy, whether it has a payment or not. You're losing the exact same amount... whether you finance or put it all down.

It's nice to know that if I'm unemployed for 2 years I can off the car and get a check written to me as opposed to having to write a check just to get rid of it. Being upside down on cars can absolutely send people into a poverty spiral if something happens like losing a job or having a serious medical issue pop up. IIRC medical issues are the #1 reason people become bankrupt and homeless.

[coogles]

The price of the car doesn't change though... So this is all in the eye of the beholder. The spend on the car is the same if you plopped down 29k and financed 1 or if you financed 29 and plopped down 1... you're paying MORE in scenario 2 every time. So you lose your job you're fucked either way... since you're out 30k on a toy, whether it has a payment or not.

The price of the car doesn't change, but the net worth position of two people exhibiting those behaviors is vastly different. You're assuming someone has the money in the bank to make a sizable down payment and chooses not to in that second scenario. I'm saying the person who chooses to put $0 down on a car usually doesn't have the means to put down much or any more, and is thus immediately underwater with no way to fix the situation (eliminate the payment) if they were to lose their income.

[Johnny_P]

I understand your economic points, you bean counting Russian. But I have a basic philosophy that my car payment ain't going be be higher than $550ish. Anything else makes me feel like a giant d-bag (which may be accurate). I philosophize that if my financial world goes to complete shit, I can not have my car repo'd if the payment is low. Yes, I can simply pay off the one car payment we have. Yes, your one pocket arugment is true. But I simply hate owing people a bunch of money. If I put $30K down on the Ultimate depreciation machine, it won't be underwater, I won't have a four digit car payment, and I won't feel like a fking toolbag.
I understand that in your system I should have put that $30K on some techbro stock instead. Which is one of many reasons I will never have fuck you money. Nonetheless my simplistic existence provides a measure of inner peace. Kind of like a $5K house payment. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that.

I'd love a 5k house payment Unfortunately that gets you a glorified Trap House here.

6-7k is really where it is at (all in including taxes blah blah). And that shit is tough. But we also have crazy inflation that has been happening all over the country.... hotels got super pricy too there is almost nothing decent under $200 in major metro areas left (after taxes and fees). So house prices going up.. makes sense... the dollar is simply devaluing incredibly fast as of late... Highest I have seen while being in this country.

Hah. $5k/mo. I agree on the other COL increases though. It's getting nuts.

Bus are $2.50/ride used to be $1.75 2 years ago
Coffee $4 up 100% over 2 years
Beers at a bar $7-8 up at least 50% over 2 years
Hotels minimum $150 a night anywhere respectable used to be under a hundo
AvBROcados expensive as shit, toast costs are alarming now
Chicken around me is now $9/lb for non-GMO stuff which is wtf pricing
$40k for a Rav4
Over $20k for a Corolla???
The housing is the biggest kick in the balls. No way Lisa's house "appreciated" $60 fucking thousand dollars in 1 year.

COL increase is 3% says .gov, yeah ok...

[max225]

The price of the car doesn't change though... So this is all in the eye of the beholder. The spend on the car is the same if you plopped down 29k and financed 1 or if you financed 29 and plopped down 1... you're paying MORE in scenario 2 every time. So you lose your job you're fucked either way... since you're out 30k on a toy, whether it has a payment or not. You're losing the exact same amount... whether you finance or put it all down.

It's nice to know that if I'm unemployed for 2 years I can off the car and get a check written to me as opposed to having to write a check just to get rid of it. Being upside down on cars can absolutely send people into a poverty spiral if something happens like losing a job or having a serious medical issue pop up. IIRC medical issues are the #1 reason people become bankrupt and homeless.

Upside down <<<>>> offing a car <<<>>> Losing job <<>>>

All different things... that have nothing to do with purchasing a car and how much is put down etc those are external factors that have the exact same implications, whether or not you have a $400 payment and 20k in the bank or 0 in the bank and no payment... How is one scenario better than the other?

[max225]

The price of the car doesn't change though... So this is all in the eye of the beholder. The spend on the car is the same if you plopped down 29k and financed 1 or if you financed 29 and plopped down 1... you're paying MORE in scenario 2 every time. So you lose your job you're fucked either way... since you're out 30k on a toy, whether it has a payment or not.

The price of the car doesn't change, but the net worth position of two people exhibiting those behaviors is vastly different. You're assuming someone has the money in the bank to make a sizable down payment and chooses not to in that second scenario. I'm saying the person who chooses to put $0 down on a car usually doesn't have the means to put down much or any more, and is thus immediately underwater with no way to fix the situation (eliminate the payment) if they were to lose their income.

That doesn't make things equal, you're comparing apples to oranges... If someone "has" 10k down and someone else doesn't that is not the same financial situation.

We're talking 2 people both have 20k in the bank one chooses to put down 1k and the other chooses to put down 10k, their financial outcomes are identical once shit hits the fan.

[troyguitar]

The price of the car doesn't change, but the net worth position of two people exhibiting those behaviors is vastly different. You're assuming someone has the money in the bank to make a sizable down payment and chooses not to in that second scenario. I'm saying the person who chooses to put $0 down on a car usually doesn't have the means to put down much or any more, and is thus immediately underwater with no way to fix the situation (eliminate the payment) if they were to lose their income.

That doesn't make things equal, you're comparing apples to oranges... If someone "has" 10k down and someone else doesn't that is not the same financial situation.

We're talking 2 people both have 20k in the bank one chooses to put down 1k and the other chooses to put down 10k, their financial outcomes are identical once shit hits the fan.

[Johnny_P]

The price of the car doesn't change, but the net worth position of two people exhibiting those behaviors is vastly different. You're assuming someone has the money in the bank to make a sizable down payment and chooses not to in that second scenario. I'm saying the person who chooses to put $0 down on a car usually doesn't have the means to put down much or any more, and is thus immediately underwater with no way to fix the situation (eliminate the payment) if they were to lose their income.

That doesn't make things equal, you're comparing apples to oranges... If someone "has" 10k down and someone else doesn't that is not the same financial situation.

We're talking 2 people both have 20k in the bank one chooses to put down 1k and the other chooses to put down 10k, their financial outcomes are identical once shit hits the fan.

I agree here but most people don't buy a car that way. Regardless, it's comforting to know that if SHTF you don't have a $10k liability hanging over your head.

[coogles]

That doesn't make things equal, you're comparing apples to oranges... If someone "has" 10k down and someone else doesn't that is not the same financial situation.

We're talking 2 people both have 20k in the bank one chooses to put down 1k and the other chooses to put down 10k, their financial outcomes are identical once shit hits the fan.

Of course I’m comparing apples and oranges. We were talking about people with different credit scores and who put down more money versus who is borrowing more. People with 600 credit scores behave differently and are in different financial situations than people with 800 credit scores. JFC

[Johnny_P]

That doesn't make things equal, you're comparing apples to oranges... If someone "has" 10k down and someone else doesn't that is not the same financial situation.

We're talking 2 people both have 20k in the bank one chooses to put down 1k and the other chooses to put down 10k, their financial outcomes are identical once shit hits the fan.

Of course I’m comparing apples and oranges. We were talking about people with different credit scores and who put down more money versus who is borrowing more. People with 600 credit scores behave differently and are in different financial situations than people with 800 credit scores. JFC

None of us on this forum are shopping Nissans.

I dunno though. Even though I can cover it no problem, I'm glad I don't have $5-10k negative equity on my car given my current situation.

[max225]

I think the point is... If you have a 6xx credit score, and you decide to borrow 33k to purchase a motor vehicle, you should plan for STHF. Even though to be fair at 6XX the SHIT already HIT THE FAN for you.... you deserve what is coming to you, if you think borrowing an enormous sum of money for something you don't need is the right course of action.

If I had a 6xx credit score I'd roll in a $4000 prius and work on making my life a better financial place, instead of buying a new tacoma or ram.

[max225]

Of course I’m comparing apples and oranges. We were talking about people with different credit scores and who put down more money versus who is borrowing more. People with 600 credit scores behave differently and are in different financial situations than people with 800 credit scores. JFC

None of us on this forum are shopping Nissans.

I dunno though. Even though I can cover it no problem, I'm glad I don't have $5-10k negative equity on my car given my current situation.

What's better 10k negative equity in a car you walk away from or 10k sitting in the bank. That's the real question here.

[max225]

This my friends is Indigo Blue Challenger.... (Demon) pictured but there is a local one for sale... 55k MSRP with the widebody package...

8k off and still pretty pricy at 47K or so. DAMN

[ChrisoftheNorth]

This my friends is Indigo Blue Challenger.... (Demon) pictured but there is a local one for sale... 55k MSRP with the widebody package...

8k off and still pretty pricy at 47K or so. DAMN

Demons sold for $100k+ widebody hellcats are $70k plus. Nothing in your post adds up.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

This could be true.

However, I also think that paying off the cards weekly doesn't help as it might be reporting a zero balance if the timing is right.[/B

On my FICO Score 8 score (so many different ones these days) that has a max of 850 I score an 848 today. I was last told my FICO Auto score was 900, the max. I have just over $300k in available credit on cards with an average account age of 18 years. I carry a balance of about 5% of my total available credit.

When I bought the 911 and did the financing to get my "deal" my score dipped 8 points the month after I took on the 100k loan and the next month it was back up Paid it off and it made zero impact on my score, likely because I'm already near the max on the scale.

I don't think I broke 800 until I had $200k+ in debt with the house and showed a history of payment, that was when I was 33.

As of a couple weeks ago I've started to leave some balance on the cards to see if that makes a difference. Usually between 8-10%. I'll continue to do this for another month or two to see if it changes anything.

Hang on...you're not carrying a balance over month to month are you? That's just lighting money on fire and won't help anything. Your credit utilization is calc'd based off outstanding balance...which means what you haven't paid yet. I pay my CC's off in full every month on the due date, and when I run my credit score, it'll account for whatever I haven't paid yet.

[max225]

This my friends is Indigo Blue Challenger.... (Demon) pictured but there is a local one for sale... 55k MSRP with the widebody package...

8k off and still pretty pricy at 47K or so. DAMN

Demons sold for $100k+ widebody hellcats are $70k plus. Nothing in your post adds up.

Demons sold for sticker which is around 8Xk that said. My post was about the color Indigo blue, and I have a local SRT392 widebody, which looks identical to the demon for sale for 55k, which is a lot of money for a Chally. Which was the point of my post.

https://www.southcountychryslerdodgejee ... 18d704.htm

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Demons sold for $100k+ widebody hellcats are $70k plus. Nothing in your post adds up.

Demons sold for sticker which is around 8Xk that said. My post was about the color Indigo blue, and I have a local SRT392 widebody, which looks identical to the demon for sale for 55k, which is a lot of money for a Chally. Which was the point of my post.

https://www.southcountychryslerdodgejee ... 18d704.htm

Ohhhhh yea. Wide body Scat Pack is epic, but still quite pricey agreed.

[max225]

Demons sold for sticker which is around 8Xk that said. My post was about the color Indigo blue, and I have a local SRT392 widebody, which looks identical to the demon for sale for 55k, which is a lot of money for a Chally. Which was the point of my post.

https://www.southcountychryslerdodgejee ... 18d704.htm

Ohhhhh yea. Wide body Scat Pack is epic, but still quite pricey agreed.

Since the demons are 120K USED now this provides a pretty ok price point at 49.5k (as advertised), is wrong with people... Civics are above sticker, challengers above sticker, anything worth while is just above sticker...
Like the world has lost its mind.