:plac: finds v2.0: Moar gold on the crangslist

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I haven't driven very many cars, and especially few in any kind of closed course situation. For pure driving fun without considering cost or practicality:

Shifter Kart >>>> ... >>>> MR2 Spyder > FRZ86 > Modded NB Miata > RX8 > Modded C5Z06 > Stock C5Z06 > Modded Vibe GT > S4 > GTI > Stock Vibe GT > Anything with an automatic transmission
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max225 wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:12 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:01 pm

Are they as great as people say?

My hierarchy of great fun cars I've driven ( :wrong: ):

Supercharged Elise > Cayman S > C5 > Ferrari 430 > S2000 > 86 > ND Miata > NC Miata > Fiata > NA/NB Miata > 135i > Z3 > R56 > Civic Si > GTI

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things... but curious where a 911 falls into that. Aslo, disclaimer, these cars were in all different conditions and driven at different times, I reserve the right to change any of these at any time :lolol:
C5>430 ?

:wtf: :amazing:
That car fucking sucked. I mean, my experience was short and didn't get above 7K RPMs... but the drive home in the Corvette was more fun. The Ferrari had a not great auto transmission and just felt like a janky kit car. Example was probably beat to hell though.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:01 pm
Apex wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:51 am

Only about 40 track days in a 996 C2, plus whenever my dad would let me take it out.

So no. No useful experience.
Are they as great as people say?

My hierarchy of great fun cars I've driven ( :wrong: ):

Supercharged Elise > Cayman S > C5 > Ferrari 430 > S2000 > 86 > ND Miata > NC Miata > Fiata > NA/NB Miata > 135i > Z3 > R56 > Civic Si > GTI

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things... but curious where a 911 falls into that. Aslo, disclaimer, these cars were in all different conditions and driven at different times, I reserve the right to change any of these at any time :lolol:
Biggest thing you’ll notice with a 911 is the steering feel. You can be surgical with them because you get good feedback and the front end is light due to there not being an engine up there. They don’t have a fast rack, but that’s not terrible when your inputs are a bit hamfisted at times.

I never felt a need for more power than the 325 the base 996 had on track... entering the esses at the Glen approaching 100mph with your foot flat to the floor is unnerving the first few times. It would top out 5th before the bus stop if I did it right.

I really don’t know where to put it on your scale... it’s probably somewhere around the C5 but I haven’t driven a C5. :iono:
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D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:16 pm
max225 wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:12 pm

C5>430 ?

:wtf: :amazing:
That car fucking sucked. I mean, my experience was short and didn't get above 7K RPMs... but the drive home in the Corvette was more fun. The Ferrari had a not great auto transmission and just felt like a janky kit car. Example was probably beat to hell though.
reason why I am asking is because I drove F430 and a lambo back to back, and the F430 was magical, the steering/the noise. It was probably the best sports car I have ever driven, I would never in my wildest dreams even compare it to a C5. So I was curious. (interior quality was sub par though).

From a sports car (fun) perspective for myself (cars I have spent time in)
F430>GaymanS>BRZ>M3F80>JCW>370Z>C5>E46M3>335i
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max225 wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:23 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:16 pm

That car fucking sucked. I mean, my experience was short and didn't get above 7K RPMs... but the drive home in the Corvette was more fun. The Ferrari had a not great auto transmission and just felt like a janky kit car. Example was probably beat to hell though.
reason why I am asking is because I drove F430 and a lambo back to back, and the F430 was magical, the steering/the noise. It was probably the best sports car I have ever driven, I would never in my wildest dreams even compare it to a C5. So I was curious. (interior quality was sub par though).

From a sports car (fun) perspective for myself (cars I have spent time in)
F430>GaymanS>BRZ>M3F80>JCW>370Z>C5>E46M3>335i
My experience just wasn't great, I would hope/assume it's a far better car than what it was that day to me. It's hard to really classify these things as they're all different. Like, a lot of days I debate offing the C5 for an 86 as they are more fun from a handling/steering/shifting perspective. But I think the V8 noises and power certainly add a lot of fun.

My experience that was really far and above all else was the supercharged Elise. That thing was awesome. It's also tough making apples to apples comparisons when most cars I've driven were at different places. C5, Elise and GTI are the only cars I've driven on a real track. I've autoxed Fiesta/Focus ST, Civic, C5, Miata, GTI, F430... hit canyon roads in the Cayman, C5, Fiata, 135i, any others.
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Apex wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:23 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:01 pm

Are they as great as people say?

My hierarchy of great fun cars I've driven ( :wrong: ):

Supercharged Elise > Cayman S > C5 > Ferrari 430 > S2000 > 86 > ND Miata > NC Miata > Fiata > NA/NB Miata > 135i > Z3 > R56 > Civic Si > GTI

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things... but curious where a 911 falls into that. Aslo, disclaimer, these cars were in all different conditions and driven at different times, I reserve the right to change any of these at any time :lolol:
Biggest thing you’ll notice with a 911 is the steering feel. You can be surgical with them because you get good feedback and the front end is light due to there not being an engine up there. They don’t have a fast rack, but that’s not terrible when your inputs are a bit hamfisted at times.

I never felt a need for more power than the 325 the base 996 had on track... entering the esses at the Glen approaching 100mph with your foot flat to the floor is unnerving the first few times. It would top out 5th before the bus stop if I did it right.

I really don’t know where to put it on your scale... it’s probably somewhere around the C5 but I haven’t driven a C5. :iono:
Makes sense. I totally agree on power, 300 hp is plenty for track shit. I think anything with the engine behind takes the cake on steering though. I'd love to compare mid engine to rear back to back. Mid engine just seems so dicey to me but it must really be that good considering all the love they get.

I forgot to mention the RX8 in there, I drove Troy's and one other example and those things are pretty neat. Great revvy motor and the controls all just felt right to me.

One downside with the two mid engine :manuel: cars I've driven is that the shifters suck compared to FR cars.
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Apex wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:51 am
D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:17 am Out of curiosity, anyone here actually driven 911s much? I certainly was impressed with the 987 Cayman S, I've never been in a 911, would love to experience it/see if it's actually better than a Cayman.

Sub $20K 996 seems pretty darn cool, or sub $35K 997.
Only about 40 track days in a 996 C2, plus whenever my dad would let me take it out.

So no. No useful experience.
:mahman:
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coogles wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:30 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:22 am :dat:

And I don't think we're alone in that.
I'm sure not. Thing is, with 3 kids now I'll get a chance to take out a fun car significantly less often unless I can also throw a kiddo or two in the back. Maybe would rather have a Poorsche, but in my case I think an Evo or STi would make way more sense. Really wanted to pick up this one, but timing just didn't work in my favor.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007- ... rx-sti-18/
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:jimp: dat Hawkeye :doe:
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Apex wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:51 am
D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:17 am Out of curiosity, anyone here actually driven 911s much? I certainly was impressed with the 987 Cayman S, I've never been in a 911, would love to experience it/see if it's actually better than a Cayman.

Sub $20K 996 seems pretty darn cool, or sub $35K 997.
Only about 40 track days in a 996 C2, plus whenever my dad would let me take it out.

So no. No useful experience.
Anecdotal, but from a friend whom I trust his opinions. Currently owns a 930 Porsche and 981 Cayman S and previously owned a 987.2 S and has driven many many others. The Cayman is a better driving experience vs a 911 until you get into the top spec’d variants.
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4zilch wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:00 am :jimp: dat Hawkeye :doe:
:dat: :megusta:
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:50 am Don't see too many black ones. That's a nice looking car. Price was good on it too.
I thought so too. No guarantee the guy who won wouldn't have kept going had I bid another $500 or whatever, but I was definitely kicking myself after seeing it go for less than $19k. Would love to have one of those in the garage, burbling around our :fancy: new suburban digs and annoying all the housewives.
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coogles wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:47 am
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:50 am Don't see too many black ones. That's a nice looking car. Price was good on it too.
I thought so too. No guarantee the guy who won wouldn't have kept going had I bid another $500 or whatever, but I was definitely kicking myself after seeing it go for less than $19k. Would love to have one of those in the garage, burbling around our :fancy: new suburban digs and annoying all the housewives.
I’d have taken one of the old ones over my new one for sure. Problem is most of the good condition cars were asking retard money back then. And cheaper ones were stage 3 grimmspeed downpipe and fart can with vape pen shift knob fucked up. If I had found this I’d have taken it for sure. Black be damned. Smaller cars are more fun.

IMO silver looked best on this gen.

But. Having owned an STI at this point. I’d probably look for an Evo 9. Just for something different.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:30 am I'm curious to see if the four cylinder Coxsters depreciate to shit. Wouldn't mind one of those.
Dat 2.5 flat four configuration doe. Not your typical inline 4 banger
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MexicanYarisTK wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:01 am
D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:30 am I'm curious to see if the four cylinder Coxsters depreciate to shit. Wouldn't mind one of those.
Dat 2.5 flat four configuration doe. Not your typical inline 4 banger
Yea, but still not the "pure" N/A 6 cyl. Anything "new" isn't preferred. I bet 4 cyl Coxsters will depreciate faster than N/A 6 cyl despite them likely being better cars.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Johnny_P wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:36 am
coogles wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:47 am

I thought so too. No guarantee the guy who won wouldn't have kept going had I bid another $500 or whatever, but I was definitely kicking myself after seeing it go for less than $19k. Would love to have one of those in the garage, burbling around our :fancy: new suburban digs and annoying all the housewives.
I’d have taken one of the old ones over my new one for sure. Problem is most of the good condition cars were asking retard money back then. And cheaper ones were stage 3 grimmspeed downpipe and fart can with vape pen shift knob fucked up. If I had found this I’d have taken it for sure. Black be damned. Smaller cars are more fun.

IMO silver looked best on this gen.

But. Having owned an STI at this point. I’d probably look for an Evo 9. Just for something different.
Dat 4G63 takes boost like a fat kid takes cake. :megusta:
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Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:03 am
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:01 am

Dat 2.5 flat four configuration doe. Not your typical inline 4 banger
Yea, but still not the "pure" N/A 6 cyl. Anything "new" isn't preferred. I bet 4 cyl Coxsters will depreciate faster than N/A 6 cyl despite them likely being better cars.
:notwrong: still kind of unique for a new poverty engine, but obviously flat 6 NA is basically what makes a porsche well... a porsche. Same reason why 340i vs 330i, because of dat inline 6. Even muscle/pony cars v8 over v6 or turbo 4
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MexicanYarisTK wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:06 am
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:03 am
Yea, but still not the "pure" N/A 6 cyl. Anything "new" isn't preferred. I bet 4 cyl Coxsters will depreciate faster than N/A 6 cyl despite them likely being better cars.
:notwrong: still kind of unique for a new poverty engine, but obviously flat 6 NA is basically what makes a porsche well... a porsche. Same reason why 340i vs 330i, because of dat inline 6. Even muscle/pony cars v8 over v6 or turbo 4
:dat:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Johnny_P wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:36 am I’d have taken one of the old ones over my new one for sure. Problem is most of the good condition cars were asking retard money back then. And cheaper ones were stage 3 grimmspeed downpipe and fart can with vape pen shift knob fucked up. If I had found this I’d have taken it for sure. Black be damned. Smaller cars are more fun.

IMO silver looked best on this gen.

But. Having owned an STI at this point. I’d probably look for an Evo 9. Just for something different.
I think I'd probably prefer an Evo 9 too, but one similar to that hawkeye in miles & condition would probably be at least another $5k.
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Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:03 am
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:01 am

Dat 2.5 flat four configuration doe. Not your typical inline 4 banger
Yea, but still not the "pure" N/A 6 cyl. Anything "new" isn't preferred. I bet 4 cyl Coxsters will depreciate faster than N/A 6 cyl despite them likely being better cars.
:dat:

I don't really GAF about the flat six... I mean it's cool but if the four cylinders drive great and drop off a cliff in price (I'm thinking they will) it seems like a good way to get into a good driving car. In general I prefer NA motors but turbos are getting better and better and on the Porsches, the four cylinders are actually faster cars.
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D Griff wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:01 am
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:03 am
Yea, but still not the "pure" N/A 6 cyl. Anything "new" isn't preferred. I bet 4 cyl Coxsters will depreciate faster than N/A 6 cyl despite them likely being better cars.
:dat:

I don't really GAF about the flat six... I mean it's cool but if the four cylinders drive great and drop off a cliff in price (I'm thinking they will) it seems like a good way to get into a good driving car. In general I prefer NA motors but turbos are getting better and better and on the Porsches, the four cylinders are actually faster cars.
Totally agreed. :popcorn: on what happens to the values of those cars.

:excited:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I just don't like the bigger cars with higher belt lines starting after the 987/997. Based on looks alone obviously, I've never driven any Porsche and probably never will.
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You can make great turbo motors, I loved my m3 engine and the one in the mini has no issues either. I don’t understand this whole NA till I die...
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Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:11 am
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:06 am

:notwrong: still kind of unique for a new poverty engine, but obviously flat 6 NA is basically what makes a porsche well... a porsche. Same reason why 340i vs 330i, because of dat inline 6. Even muscle/pony cars v8 over v6 or turbo 4
:dat:
I'm betting the same. If we not bankrupt in the next year or so I'd love to find a bargain.
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MexicanYarisTK wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:06 am
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:03 am
Yea, but still not the "pure" N/A 6 cyl. Anything "new" isn't preferred. I bet 4 cyl Coxsters will depreciate faster than N/A 6 cyl despite them likely being better cars.
:notwrong: still kind of unique for a new poverty engine, but obviously flat 6 NA is basically what makes a porsche well... a porsche. Same reason why 340i vs 330i, because of dat inline 6. Even muscle/pony cars v8 over v6 or turbo 4
Kinda funny, actually.

On the 911, outside of the GT3 the only guys really swearing that the NA engine is better are one of two groups:
  • The guys that own a 991.1 and are jealous that the 991.2 is better overall in every way for basically the same money they paid for their 991.1
  • The guys that just always think the latest and greatest isn't the best, no matter what it is, until it grows on them.
I mean, I get it. A lot of guys spent $100-$150k on their 991.1 and can't afford to go buy a 991.2. They have to make this reasonable in their head on why their car is "better".

Even a lot of the GT3 guys on the forums had "traded down" in the 991.2 generation to a GTS since it is a much more reasonable street car. Of course they are in the minority and shunned by the everyday is a track day GT3 guys.

However, On the Boxster/Cayman I would pick the NA 6 for sure.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:47 am
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:06 am

:notwrong: still kind of unique for a new poverty engine, but obviously flat 6 NA is basically what makes a porsche well... a porsche. Same reason why 340i vs 330i, because of dat inline 6. Even muscle/pony cars v8 over v6 or turbo 4
Kinda funny, actually.

On the 911, outside of the GT3 the only guys really swearing that the NA engine is better are one of two groups:
  • The guys that own a 991.1 and are jealous that the 991.2 is better overall in every way for basically the same money they paid for their 991.1
  • The guys that just always think the latest and greatest isn't the best, no matter what it is, until it grows on them.
I mean, I get it. A lot of guys spent $100-$150k on their 991.1 and can't afford to go buy a 991.2. They have to make this reasonable in their head on why their car is "better".

Even a lot of the GT3 guys on the forums had "traded down" in the 991.2 generation to a GTS since it is a much more reasonable street car. Of course they are in the minority and shunned by the everyday is a track day GT3 guys.

However, On the Boxster/Cayman I would pick the NA 6 for sure.
Porsche ownership can create some pretty staggering social ramifications.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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