2020 Supra-Why I think it is half assed.

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Is the 2020 half assed ?

Yes
8
35%
No, I placed my order it is AMAZING!
2
9%
Toaster
13
57%
 
Total votes: 23
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max225
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OK here goes the rant and it deserves its own thread.
Let me get a few things out of the way first. I do think it is a good looking car and it has decent specs and pricing. In no way shape or form is it a BAD car like a Mitsubishi Mirage.
Lets try to use facts and logic to disect my dislike of this vehicle and how I reached this conclusion.

1. Hype- This car was hyped for about a decade now... the great supra return etc etc. Lets look at some facts, the 1996 model had the same HP rating, a far more reliable motor and way more distinctive and futuristic styling. It looked like it was sold in 2016 not 1996. This car doesn't compare at all, it fails against the original from 24 years ago.

2. BMW collab- This was the biggest fuck up of them all, why collab with BMW? What purpose does this serve? How is this car distinguished from the BMW lineup? Styling alone is what I could come up with. But BMW is THE MARKET LEADER in this field, they make the BEST luxury 2 door coupes in the 50-70k price point... This supra brings NOTHING from BMW other than 240i powertrain that costs 10k less, WGAF if it has "enough " power that is NOT THE POINT. This is a CAR ICON with a run of the mill powertrain.

3. What did toyota actually do ?
Did they bring in their reliability ? No
Did they give us a new engine to lust over like the 2JZ? No
Does this car in any way shape or form outperform a better badged car for less money ? No

I mean the WHOLE POINT OF THE SUPRA WAS TO BE A GIANT SLAYER, like the GT-R. This car falls shorts in all those aspects. Period. This doesn't make it a bad car it MAKES IT A BAD SUPRA.


That is all.

:micdrop:
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I disagree on the styling, it's very 90's.

Not a Toyota engine is disappointing, I agree there.

Also, original one wasn't a giant slayer, it was a bitchin' GT care made to compete with Corvette and Porsche.
Toyota slayed the giants with the LFA.
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max225 wrote:OK here goes the rant and it deserves its own thread.
Let me get a few things out of the way first. I do think it is a good looking car and it has decent specs and pricing. In no way shape or form is it a BAD car like a Mitsubishi Mirage.
Lets try to use facts and logic to disect my dislike of this vehicle and how I reached this conclusion.

1. Hype- This car was hyped for about a decade now... the great supra return etc etc. Lets look at some facts, the 1996 model had the same HP rating, a far more reliable motor and way more distinctive and futuristic styling. It looked like it was sold in 2016 not 1996. This car doesn't compare at all, it fails against the original from 24 years ago.

2. BMW collab- This was the biggest fuck up of them all, why collab with BMW? What purpose does this serve? How is this car distinguished from the BMW lineup? Styling alone is what I could come up with. But BMW is THE MARKET LEADER in this field, they make the BEST luxury 2 door coupes in the 50-70k price point... This supra brings NOTHING from BMW other than 240i powertrain that costs 10k less, WGAF if it has "enough " power that is NOT THE POINT. This is a CAR ICON with a run of the mill powertrain.

3. What did toyota actually do ?
Did they bring in their reliability ? No
Did they give us a new engine to lust over like the 2JZ? No
Does this car in any way shape or form outperform a better badged car for less money ? No

I mean the WHOLE POINT OF THE SUPRA WAS TO BE A GIANT SLAYER, like the GT-R. This car falls shorts in all those aspects. Period. This doesn't make it a bad car it MAKES IT A BAD SUPRA.


That is all.

:micdrop:
:wrong:
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max225
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Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:42 pm I disagree on the styling, it's very 90's.

Not a Toyota engine is disappointing, I agree there.

Also, original one wasn't a giant slayer, it was a bitchin' GT care made to compete with Corvette and Porsche.
Toyota slayed the giants with the LFA.
It was though... This engine made it's debut in 1991, 320hp...330tq
Ferrari 348 of the same year made 300hp.

How much HP does the current comparable ferrari have? etc etc.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:46 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:42 pm I disagree on the styling, it's very 90's.

Not a Toyota engine is disappointing, I agree there.

Also, original one wasn't a giant slayer, it was a bitchin' GT care made to compete with Corvette and Porsche.
Toyota slayed the giants with the LFA.
It was though... This engine made it's debut in 1991, 320hp...330tq
Ferrari 348 of the same year made 300hp.

How much HP does the current comparable ferrari have? etc etc.
Cars do not sport on horsepower alone.
You can't take one statistic and use that to define the entire characteristic of an entire automobile.

You're completely ignoring why it was built and marketed, it was there along with the 300ZX, and the RX7. The Japanese were known for showcasing tech, and Toyota was establishing their super reliable reputation then.

They made a decent car, with a bullet proof engine, and the rest is history.
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Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:51 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:46 pm

It was though... This engine made it's debut in 1991, 320hp...330tq
Ferrari 348 of the same year made 300hp.

How much HP does the current comparable ferrari have? etc etc.
Cars do not sport on horsepower alone.
You can't take one statistic and use that to define the entire characteristic of an entire automobile.

You're completely ignoring why it was built and marketed, it was there along with the 300ZX, and the RX7. The Japanese were known for showcasing tech, and Toyota was establishing their super reliable reputation then.

They made a decent car, with a bullet proof engine, and the rest is history.
The point was that they were icon cars that were special and could stand their ground, and have since earned their spot in car Meccas as perhaps the most iconic Japanese nameplate ever made, not rebadged half assed BMWs.
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This was it's sister:

Image

Not exactly a JDM classic.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:46 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:42 pm I disagree on the styling, it's very 90's.

Not a Toyota engine is disappointing, I agree there.

Also, original one wasn't a giant slayer, it was a bitchin' GT care made to compete with Corvette and Porsche.
Toyota slayed the giants with the LFA.
It was though... This engine made it's debut in 1991, 320hp...330tq
Ferrari 348 of the same year made 300hp.

How much HP does the current comparable ferrari have? etc etc.
Right, gotta remember context.

330 HP was :mindblown: in 1991. The Covette didn't crest that until the LT4 in 1996. Hell, the base Corvette didn't go past 350 until 2005 with the C6.

Now, the Corvette has 460hp, and the "Supra" has 130 less? Hell, a BASE Cayman has 300hp these days. This Supra just doesn't live up to the epicness of the prior car.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:53 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:51 pm

Cars do not sport on horsepower alone.
You can't take one statistic and use that to define the entire characteristic of an entire automobile.

You're completely ignoring why it was built and marketed, it was there along with the 300ZX, and the RX7. The Japanese were known for showcasing tech, and Toyota was establishing their super reliable reputation then.

They made a decent car, with a bullet proof engine, and the rest is history.
The point was that they were icon cars that were special and could stand their ground, and have since earned their spot in car Meccas as perhaps the most iconic Japanese nameplate ever made, not rebadged half assed BMWs.
They became icons later, as all things do.

I'm not saying the new one is the end all of be all, it's forgettable, as all Toyotas are. I wouldn't call it half-assed either, just wait my friend, time will tell.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:53 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:51 pm

Cars do not sport on horsepower alone.
You can't take one statistic and use that to define the entire characteristic of an entire automobile.

You're completely ignoring why it was built and marketed, it was there along with the 300ZX, and the RX7. The Japanese were known for showcasing tech, and Toyota was establishing their super reliable reputation then.

They made a decent car, with a bullet proof engine, and the rest is history.
The point was that they were icon cars that were special and could stand their ground, and have since earned their spot in car Meccas as perhaps the most iconic Japanese nameplate ever made, not rebadged half assed BMWs.
:dat:

What's so special about the new Supra? Especially thinking about how :mindblown: the prior was when it released.
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Also, the aftermarket made the MKIV Supra what it is, not Toyota.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:46 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:42 pm I disagree on the styling, it's very 90's.

Not a Toyota engine is disappointing, I agree there.

Also, original one wasn't a giant slayer, it was a bitchin' GT care made to compete with Corvette and Porsche.
Toyota slayed the giants with the LFA.
It was though... This engine made it's debut in 1991, 320hp...330tq
Ferrari 348 of the same year made 300hp.

How much HP does the current comparable ferrari have? etc etc.
now it doesn't even compete with BMW M cars, Mustang GT's used to make much less HP for the 4th gen supra. So yahh, they needed to step up a LOT!!

The previous NSX made less than the Supra at it's time and now look!!
Last edited by MexicanYarisTK on Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:56 pm Also, the aftermarket made the MKIV Supra what it is, not Toyota.
But still for it's time, it was a pretty stellar car, even though I partly agree.
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A 5.3L baby dick pushrod Silverado makes 350 hp.

My 1992 K1500 with a 5.7L small block made 191 by comparison.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:55 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:46 pm

It was though... This engine made it's debut in 1991, 320hp...330tq
Ferrari 348 of the same year made 300hp.

How much HP does the current comparable ferrari have? etc etc.
Right, gotta remember context.

330 HP was :mindblown: in 1991. The Covette didn't crest that until the LT4 in 1996. Hell, the base Corvette didn't go past 350 until 2005 with the C6.

Now, the Corvette has 460hp, and the "Supra" has 130 less? Hell, a BASE Cayman has 300hp these days. This Supra just doesn't live up to the epicness of the prior car.
Meh, those that don't get this... pointless to explain. Those that know... know.
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The 2JZ didnt become a thing of "lust" until well after it had proven itself in being able to hold a ton of boost well past factory limits. The 2jZ wasnt super anticipated. The supra was simply in its next generation.

The 3rd gen didnt get its true halo until it had been retired, along with all classic Japanese (us market) sports cars in the late 90s.

People are letting all this nostalgia grow on a thing we haven't had for OVER 20 YEARS. In the mid 90s, the supra was still an expensive sports car that could barely outperform the hot shit domestic cars (ie vette, moostang gt and z28 maro) which were all the same price or a good bit cheaper. They also didnt sell that well. Well into the mid 90s you could still walk in and buy the rx7 or supra on most diller's lots. People just didnt spend that kinda money for Japanese sports cars. Contrast 90s vette sales with all JDM sports cars... The c5 sales slaughtered the US JDM market. So much it took them forever to even consider bringing back anything sporty...

Dont mix up the "tuner supra" for what the OE actually delivered. The aftermarket is what pushed the 3rd gen into halo status.
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Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:56 pm Also, the aftermarket made the MKIV Supra what it is, not Toyota.
Just reading back up.

All :dat:

So much fuckin nostalgia in here. The TT supra didnt blow away sales, performance, or volume numbers while it was in production.

I'm happy they made it and brought it to us. I applaud any manufacturer that makes a 2 seat RWD car.
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I get the weak horsepower complaint. If you would of asked me this in my 20's I would of said this thing's a piece of shit. But now almost pushing 40 and doing lots of autocross and having a car with 400 to the wheels, those numbers don't mean as much to me. I'm more interested now in how the package works as a whole. These horsepower numbers that are coming out now are just ridiculous. Where does it end? 1K Hp for your daily? You don't need that baw!
I'm totally happy with my 128hp 1.8L that's likely down to 100hp in its current shape because it handles so well. So maybe the new Supra handles great, and weighs less ( I haven't looked at the numbers honestly). I think that price point is a little high (Let's face it, high starting parts is the new norm... When people are spending $40-50K for a baseline truck), but let's be real, a lot of people are going to be doing tuning on these things.
Last edited by Acid666 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dubshow wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:00 pm The 2JZ didnt become a thing of "lust" until well after it had proven itself in being able to hold a ton of boost well past factory limits. The 2jZ wasnt super anticipated. The supra was simply in its next generation.

The 3rd gen didnt get its true halo until it had been retired, along with all classic Japanese (us market) sports cars in the late 90s.

People are letting all this nostalgia grow on a thing we haven't had for OVER 20 YEARS. In the mid 90s, the supra was still an expensive sports car that could barely outperform the hot shit domestic cars (ie vette, moostang gt and z28 maro) which were all the same price or a good bit cheaper. They also didnt sell that well. Well into the mid 90s you could still walk in and buy the rx7 or supra on most diller's lots. People just didnt spend that kinda money for Japanese sports cars. Contrast 90s vette sales with all JDM sports cars... The c5 sales slaughtered the US JDM market. So much it took them forever to even consider bringing back anything sporty...

Dont mix up the "tuner supra" for what the OE actually delivered. The aftermarket is what pushed the 3rd gen into halo status.
C5 launched in 1997, half way through the year too, the supra was already canned at that point. 97 was the final year for carb states, how does this comparison make any sense?
The supra was incredibly expensive in it's day... due to all the features it offered, same price as current supra but in 1997 dollhairs which are worth double now.
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I'm just gonna skip to the end of this thread

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brain go brrrrrr
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Big Brain Bradley wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:04 pm I'm just gonna skip to the end of this thread

:deadhorse:
Not yet, but close.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I know nothing about cars, clearly.
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Haha, I forgot we had that.

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Melon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:06 pm I know nothing about cars, clearly.
It's OK. None of us do.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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