Car talk tré: Carpocalypse Now!

[max225]

Yea that's legit
Too bad we won't see them here any more.

MURICA - land of the free?? But not so much in car choice......Great fkn Again? LOL

Best damn country on the planet. Best place to be a car enthusiast on the planet

[Davestr]

MURICA - land of the free?? But not so much in car choice......Great fkn Again? LOL

Yo! Just having fun. If only the Jimny??

[max225]

Btw resurrected the crown Vic after throwing another $69 radiator on it. Good luck doing that with anything made by the krauts.
Car shifts and idles smoother than my m3.
399,675 miles on it... 400 will happen sooon

[max225]

Porsche announced trim levels for their electric car that has taken longer to come to market than a Tesla...

Taycan
4s
Turbo a car without a turbo that is electric will be the highest trim level

[CorvetteWaxer]

Btw resurrected the crown Vic after throwing another $69 radiator on it. Good luck doing that with anything made by the krauts.
Car shifts and idles smoother than my m3.
399,675 miles on it... 400 will happen sooon

This is a big thing in my mind about the 911s. I looked up how to change the spark plugs on the 991 and it's not that hard, but much harder than it should be... what about anything else.... I guess I would be paying $200/hr to the dealer if the warranty was gone?

[max225]

Btw resurrected the crown Vic after throwing another $69 radiator on it. Good luck doing that with anything made by the krauts.
Car shifts and idles smoother than my m3.
399,675 miles on it... 400 will happen sooon

This is a big thing actually in my mind about the 911s. I looked up how to change the spark plugs on the 991 and it's not that hard, but much harder than it should be... what about anything else.... I guess I would be paying $200/hr to the dealer if the warranty was gone?

$200 ?! I am pretty sure we’re at $275-350 in the bay. $200 is Toyota labor. Also lesbihonest, you won’t own it long enough to do plugs so

[CorvetteWaxer]

This is a big thing actually in my mind about the 911s. I looked up how to change the spark plugs on the 991 and it's not that hard, but much harder than it should be... what about anything else.... I guess I would be paying $200/hr to the dealer if the warranty was gone?

$200 ?! I am pretty sure we’re at $275-350 in the bay. $200 is Toyota labor. Also lesbihonest, you won’t own it long enough to do plugs so

Trying to keep some things longer now... I might buy something else, but thinking if I end up with the 12 car garage it looks like I'm going to have, I won't need to trade away anything I still like.

[max225]

$200 ?! I am pretty sure we’re at $275-350 in the bay. $200 is Toyota labor. Also lesbihonest, you won’t own it long enough to do plugs so

Trying to keep some things longer now... I might buy something else, but thinking if I end up with the 12 car garage it looks like I'm going to have, I won't need to trade away anything I still like.

At that point you’ll have so many cars to split the miles In and it still won’t matter. When are they due? 40k? That’s the shortest plug interval I’m aware of (on my m3). With 3/4 other vehicles that are way more DD friendly it’ll take you a decade to reach that. And a new(ish) p car won’t need anything but the $699 oil change every year for the first 4/5 years.

[Davestr]

Btw resurrected the crown Vic after throwing another $69 radiator on it. Good luck doing that with anything made by the krauts.
Car shifts and idles smoother than my m3.
399,675 miles on it... 400 will happen sooon

Winning!

[Davestr]

Trying to keep some things longer now... I might buy something else, but thinking if I end up with the 12 car garage it looks like I'm going to have, I won't need to trade away anything I still like.

At that point you’ll have so many cars to split the miles In and it still won’t matter. When are they due? 40k? That’s the shortest plug interval I’m aware of (on my m3). With 3/4 other vehicles that are way more DD friendly it’ll take you a decade to reach that. And a new(ish) p car won’t need anything but the $699 oil change every year for the first 4/5 years.

[Davestr]

Interesting read from a car purchase consultant on what he told folks not to buy this past year - https://jalopnik.com/all-the-cars-i-con ... 1831351680

[wap]

Yea that's legit
Too bad we won't see them here any more.

You have 75% of this forum to blame as they want to

[MexicanYarisTK]

MURICA - land of the free?? But not so much in car choice......Great fkn Again? LOL

Best damn country on the planet. Best place to be a car enthusiast on the planet

This is true, that ST would probably cost about the same or more there as the foRS msrp here

[dubshow]

https://www.motor1.com/news/299094/new- ... 20%251%24s

Oh that looks very nice

Yea that's legit
Too bad we won't see them here any more.

I know

[fledonfoot]

Btw resurrected the crown Vic after throwing another $69 radiator on it. Good luck doing that with anything made by the krauts.
Car shifts and idles smoother than my m3.
399,675 miles on it... 400 will happen sooon

This is a big thing in my mind about the 911s. I looked up how to change the spark plugs on the 991 and it's not that hard, but much harder than it should be... what about anything else.... I guess I would be paying $200/hr to the dealer if the warranty was gone?

The 991 is pretty damn bulletproof and the biggest issue is vacuum valves in the cooling system that are prone to failure in the 991.1 cars. $200 part and a 2 hour job to replace both sides.

A 991.1 with A recently issued CPO warranty now has unlimited mileage allowance, like Mercedes. The CPO warranty will basically cover any non wear/tear, cosmetic or rattle/squeak concern with the car. It is VERY comprehensive.

991.2 cars require spark plugs at 4 year/30k mile intervals and that does require rear bumper and side muffler removal. We charge 5 hours of labor or 6 with cars with aftermarket exhausts and our labor rate is $185/hr. Plugs are $36 each. Do the air filters at the same time to save with the overlapping labor as they’re due at 40k.

Brakes are massive and generally last 40k+ miles unless it has frequent track time. Be prepared for $1800/axle brake jobs (or $9k/axle if you have PCCBs and managed to cook the rotors). Rear tires can disappear quickly for obvious reasons and N-spec tires are about 350 each.

N-spec tires are about a $20/ea premium over the non-N versions from Pirelli/Michelin/Dunlop, and for certain vibration/ride quality concerns under warranty I’ve seen Porsche decline related warranty repairs until the tires were swapped with correct rubber.

In general Porsche are very “customer satisfaction” focused with warranty complaints, and I’ve seen very few kicked back claims.

[fledonfoot]

Trying to keep some things longer now... I might buy something else, but thinking if I end up with the 12 car garage it looks like I'm going to have, I won't need to trade away anything I still like.

At that point you’ll have so many cars to split the miles In and it still won’t matter. When are they due? 40k? That’s the shortest plug interval I’m aware of (on my m3). With 3/4 other vehicles that are way more DD friendly it’ll take you a decade to reach that. And a new(ish) p car won’t need anything but the $699 oil change every year for the first 4/5 years.

Yearly/10k maintenance : $479... includes oil service, clearing body and top/roof drains, DME scan with any updates as needed, alignment check.

Every 2 years/20k: add a brake flush $264

Every 4 years/30k: plugs $1100ish

Every 4 years/40k: air filter(s) varies from $250-400 depending on model or config. Cheaper if done with plugs early with labor overlap.
Pollen filter $130-180 depending if equipped with optional pre-filter.

Every 6 years/60k: drive belt approx $320, cheaper when done with plugs 2nd time around with labor overlap.

Alignments are $279.

Coolant is lifetime unless the system is broken open or contaminated.
PDK fluid and filter is 12 years or 120k. Haven’t priced it recently but around $1200 IIRC. Only seen 2 991s with 100+k miles so far.
AWD controller and front diff oils on Turbo/Turbo S is 8/80 and around $900.

Pricing obviously varies from dealer to dealer but is a good estimate.

[fledonfoot]

You have 75% of this forum to blame as they want to

I bought one and it blew up, and Ford’s god awful service network was enough to make me get rid of it.

The car was fucking epic to drive, especially with the OEM Ford Racing tune... that killed it.

In hindsight I should have just bought the MK7 back then. I probably would have never gone with the truck.

[Tar]

Wow fled! and comprehensive deets!

[Apex]

At that point you’ll have so many cars to split the miles In and it still won’t matter. When are they due? 40k? That’s the shortest plug interval I’m aware of (on my m3). With 3/4 other vehicles that are way more DD friendly it’ll take you a decade to reach that. And a new(ish) p car won’t need anything but the $699 oil change every year for the first 4/5 years.

Yearly/10k maintenance : $479... includes oil service, clearing body and top/roof drains, DME scan with any updates as needed, alignment check.

Every 2 years/20k: add a brake flush $264

Every 4 years/30k: plugs $1100ish

Every 4 years/40k: air filter(s) varies from $250-400 depending on model or config. Cheaper if done with plugs early with labor overlap.
Pollen filter $130-180 depending if equipped with optional pre-filter.

Every 6 years/60k: drive belt approx $320, cheaper when done with plugs 2nd time around with labor overlap.

Alignments are $279.

Coolant is lifetime unless the system is broken open or contaminated.
PDK fluid and filter is 12 years or 120k. Haven’t priced it recently but around $1200 IIRC. Only seen 2 991s with 100+k miles so far.
AWD controller and front diff oils on Turbo/Turbo S is 8/80 and around $900.

Pricing obviously varies from dealer to dealer but is a good estimate.

Why are you bringing these facts in here?

[max225]

At that point you’ll have so many cars to split the miles In and it still won’t matter. When are they due? 40k? That’s the shortest plug interval I’m aware of (on my m3). With 3/4 other vehicles that are way more DD friendly it’ll take you a decade to reach that. And a new(ish) p car won’t need anything but the $699 oil change every year for the first 4/5 years.

Yearly/10k maintenance : $479... includes oil service, clearing body and top/roof drains, DME scan with any updates as needed, alignment check.

Every 2 years/20k: add a brake flush $264

Every 4 years/30k: plugs $1100ish

Every 4 years/40k: air filter(s) varies from $250-400 depending on model or config. Cheaper if done with plugs early with labor overlap.
Pollen filter $130-180 depending if equipped with optional pre-filter.

Every 6 years/60k: drive belt approx $320, cheaper when done with plugs 2nd time around with labor overlap.

Alignments are $279.

Coolant is lifetime unless the system is broken open or contaminated.
PDK fluid and filter is 12 years or 120k. Haven’t priced it recently but around $1200 IIRC. Only seen 2 991s with 100+k miles so far.
AWD controller and front diff oils on Turbo/Turbo S is 8/80 and around $900.

Pricing obviously varies from dealer to dealer but is a good estimate.

Yep so basically anything on a normal car x10 because aryan god chariot.

[fledonfoot]

Yearly/10k maintenance : $479... includes oil service, clearing body and top/roof drains, DME scan with any updates as needed, alignment check.

Every 2 years/20k: add a brake flush $264

Every 4 years/30k: plugs $1100ish

Every 4 years/40k: air filter(s) varies from $250-400 depending on model or config. Cheaper if done with plugs early with labor overlap.
Pollen filter $130-180 depending if equipped with optional pre-filter.

Every 6 years/60k: drive belt approx $320, cheaper when done with plugs 2nd time around with labor overlap.

Alignments are $279.

Coolant is lifetime unless the system is broken open or contaminated.
PDK fluid and filter is 12 years or 120k. Haven’t priced it recently but around $1200 IIRC. Only seen 2 991s with 100+k miles so far.
AWD controller and front diff oils on Turbo/Turbo S is 8/80 and around $900.

Pricing obviously varies from dealer to dealer but is a good estimate.

Yep so basically anything on a normal car x10 because aryan god chariot.

But is it not unreasonable that the price of service and maintenance should scale with the purchase price of a luxury car?. Outside of the Macan, the vast majority of our vehicles are well over $100k and most 911's are in the $125-170 range (nobody buys or orders base 911's, and the 911T is a very niche, low volume car). And while the car depreciates, the cost of ownership doesn't... I have to explain this to people often when they get a "great deal" on a used Panamera/Cayenne that comes to us broken.

These are not "normal" cars and they're never marketed as one... it's the complete opposite.

By comparison, my McLaren and Lamborghini dealerships have a $240/hr labor rate (the F1 service facility is significantly higher because it's the only one in the USA and is much cheaper than shipping a $18-25M car back to Woking) and service costs are roughly double, and while my Bugatti dealership doesn't have a posted labor rate it's roughly $1k/hr from the "menu" services.

A 10,000 mile oil/rotation service on a $35k V6 Camry is around $80-100. Spark plugs on those cars is around $600 because you've got to take the whole cowl and upper intake off to access the rear bank because of the transverse layout. At Toyota we would bill 4.5 hours at $125/hr and about $25/plug, plus intake gaskets. Relative to the cost of the car, it's proportional.

[razr390]

[max225]

Yep so basically anything on a normal car x10 because aryan god chariot.

But is it not unreasonable that the price of service and maintenance should scale with the purchase price of a luxury car?. Outside of the Macan, the vast majority of our vehicles are well over $100k and most 911's are in the $125-170 range (nobody buys or orders base 911's, and the 911T is a very niche, low volume car). And while the car depreciates, the cost of ownership doesn't... I have to explain this to people often when they get a "great deal" on a used Panamera/Cayenne that comes to us broken.

These are not "normal" cars and they're never marketed as one... it's the complete opposite.

By comparison, my McLaren and Lamborghini dealerships have a $240/hr labor rate (the F1 service facility is significantly higher because it's the only one in the USA and is much cheaper than shipping a $18-25M car back to Woking) and service costs are roughly double, and while my Bugatti dealership doesn't have a posted labor rate it's roughly $1k/hr from the "menu" services.

A 10,000 mile oil/rotation service on a $35k V6 Camry is around $80-100. Spark plugs on those cars is around $600 because you've got to take the whole cowl and upper intake off to access the rear bank because of the transverse layout. At Toyota we would bill 4.5 hours at $125/hr and about $25/plug, plus intake gaskets. Relative to the cost of the car, it's proportional.

The way I see it is like a lotus oil change that costs 5x what a corolla oil change costs. Lotus uses corolla engine but upcharges because it is a “more expensive” car. It’s just a money grab because owners can afford it. Either way

[CaleDeRoo]

To be fair an Elise oil change is about 5x more labor intensive.

[CorvetteWaxer]

But is it not unreasonable that the price of service and maintenance should scale with the purchase price of a luxury car?. Outside of the Macan, the vast majority of our vehicles are well over $100k and most 911's are in the $125-170 range (nobody buys or orders base 911's, and the 911T is a very niche, low volume car). And while the car depreciates, the cost of ownership doesn't... I have to explain this to people often when they get a "great deal" on a used Panamera/Cayenne that comes to us broken.

These are not "normal" cars and they're never marketed as one... it's the complete opposite.

By comparison, my McLaren and Lamborghini dealerships have a $240/hr labor rate (the F1 service facility is significantly higher because it's the only one in the USA and is much cheaper than shipping a $18-25M car back to Woking) and service costs are roughly double, and while my Bugatti dealership doesn't have a posted labor rate it's roughly $1k/hr from the "menu" services.

A 10,000 mile oil/rotation service on a $35k V6 Camry is around $80-100. Spark plugs on those cars is around $600 because you've got to take the whole cowl and upper intake off to access the rear bank because of the transverse layout. At Toyota we would bill 4.5 hours at $125/hr and about $25/plug, plus intake gaskets. Relative to the cost of the car, it's proportional.

The way I see it is like a lotus oil change that costs 5x what a corolla oil change costs. Lotus uses corolla engine but upcharges because it is a “more expensive” car. It’s just a money grab because owners can afford it. Either way

Yeah, but I think the thing is, you just need to know this going into them and make peace with it... or don't buy one. At least that's what I'm coming to believe.

I'm actually stressing on this right now, as far as cost to own, depreciation, and wondering if I would be happy if I sold the Z06 and bought a much less powerful 911. Everyone says that you don't need the power, or that the refinement in the 911 is such an experience that even the lowest line of 911 is possibly the best 911...

about the basest of the base being best, but no more than 3 youtubers that have Carrerra S or higher cars has said the base cars are more fun. now I am confused.

Many have said the Turbo S is just fun to rip off 0-100, but otherwise it doesn't have the "911 feel" in the corners, not sure if that is an AWD thing, or how that trim gets optioned out by default.