Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

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Davestr
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https://wolfstreet.com/2018/04/25/carma ... ed-to-die/

Interesting analysis. Some interesting comments as well in the comment section. OPEC appears to be gaining strength again, and will the US consumer regret the big truck obsession sooner rather than later?
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Davestr wrote:https://wolfstreet.com/2018/04/25/carma ... ed-to-die/

Interesting analysis. Some interesting comments as well in the comment section. OPEC appears to be gaining strength again, and will the US consumer regret the big truck obsession sooner rather than later?
The only regret in buying a big truck comes from feeling that you should have bought a BIGGER truck.
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C4s are not the best to live with. Ever see the size of the door sills and the center tunnel? Footwells are miniscule.

Would still love a ZR1, doe. That's a childhood dream car. Will certainly be collectible some day if they aren't already.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I think abandoning cars will bite some OEMs eventually. Car segments are still big sales, and gas WILL get more expensive at some point.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Especially since the pod revolution is at least 15 to 20 years away from mass market acceptance.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:17 am C4s are not the best to live with. Ever see the size of the door sills and the center tunnel? Footwells are miniscule.

Would still love a ZR1, doe. That's a childhood dream car. Will certainly be collectible some day if they aren't already.
I spent so many miles in the passenger seat of my friend's '96 LT4 that my feet are permanently disfigured and I'm sure that part of my back problems are from doing the hurdles to get in and out over the door sill. And yes, the center tunnel was so large and such a heat exchanger that there was never a need to actually run the heater, which was good as the Heat/AC system in the C4 was pretty craptactular.

That said, at the time the car was fucking awesome and smoked every 1997 and 1998 C5 we came across. We made one rich boy from Stanford and his buddy look like they were going to cry one night. We were at a light and he just looked over and said "No, you don't want to race me.".... Well, his confidence was destroyed a moment later and we were laughing our asses off and telling him he had wagon wheels.
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Focus hatch isn't going anywhere as of now
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Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:18 am I think abandoning cars will bite some OEMs eventually. Car segments are still big sales, and gas WILL get more expensive at some point.
This is my belief.

Remember in the mid-2000's when everyone bought a full size truck/Tahoe/Surburban/Hummer and gas hit $5/gallon in California? Next thing you know, Prius' are on the rise and tons of used trucks on the market.

It will happen again, sooner than later and I think Ferd is going to pay for this decision.
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http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/0 ... -vehicles/

Audi recalling over 1 million cars with the 2.0T engine because apparently water causes electrical water pumps to short out.

:derp:
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:44 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:18 am I think abandoning cars will bite some OEMs eventually. Car segments are still big sales, and gas WILL get more expensive at some point.
This is my belief.

Remember in the mid-2000's when everyone bought a full size truck/Tahoe/Surburban/Hummer and gas hit $5/gallon in California? Next thing you know, Prius' are on the rise and tons of used trucks on the market.

It will happen again, sooner than later and I think Ferd is going to pay for this decision.
I think Ferd somewhat screwed itself with product. It spend so much money developing the beer can F-teenthousand that it sacrificed car development. All of its cars are ancient, and it's faced with the decision to dump money in too late, or exit the business. With a history of large "disruptions" helping boost stock price in the industry, it sounds to me like an opportunistic hail mary. Made sense for FCA because they have no viable car platform. Ford has many...those sold over seas that do quite well. The cost of adapting for the us market in both product and production likely drove the decision, but it seems short sighted.

Let's not ignore the fact that car sales are still strong. Declining, but they remain strong and profitable if executed right. Having no car position at all will be an interesting one during the next "fuel crisis", which we're realistically not that far from. No crossover is as fuel efficient as a car because :science:

Remember during 2008 when worthless Geo Metros were suddenly worth $10k?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:40 am
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:44 am

This is my belief.

Remember in the mid-2000's when everyone bought a full size truck/Tahoe/Surburban/Hummer and gas hit $5/gallon in California? Next thing you know, Prius' are on the rise and tons of used trucks on the market.

It will happen again, sooner than later and I think Ferd is going to pay for this decision.
I think Ferd somewhat screwed itself with product. It spend so much money developing the beer can F-teenthousand that it sacrificed car development. All of its cars are ancient, and it's faced with the decision to dump money in too late, or exit the business. With a history of large "disruptions" helping boost stock price in the industry, it sounds to me like an opportunistic hail mary. Made sense for FCA because they have no viable car platform. Ford has many...those sold over seas that do quite well. The cost of adapting for the us market in both product and production likely drove the decision, but it seems short sighted.

Let's not ignore the fact that car sales are still strong. Declining, but they remain strong and profitable if executed right. Having no car position at all will be an interesting one during the next "fuel crisis", which we're realistically not that far from. No crossover is as fuel efficient as a car because :science:

Remember during 2008 when worthless Geo Metros were suddenly worth $10k?
Yep, I bought my Prius when the market was soft on them and 2 years later it was worth more as a trade-in than I paid for it. I had dealers calling me because they knew I had the carpool lane stickers that were no longer being issued at the time offering me $8K over KBB.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:40 am
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:44 am

This is my belief.

Remember in the mid-2000's when everyone bought a full size truck/Tahoe/Surburban/Hummer and gas hit $5/gallon in California? Next thing you know, Prius' are on the rise and tons of used trucks on the market.

It will happen again, sooner than later and I think Ferd is going to pay for this decision.
I think Ferd somewhat screwed itself with product. It spend so much money developing the beer can F-teenthousand that it sacrificed car development. All of its cars are ancient, and it's faced with the decision to dump money in too late, or exit the business. With a history of large "disruptions" helping boost stock price in the industry, it sounds to me like an opportunistic hail mary. Made sense for FCA because they have no viable car platform. Ford has many...those sold over seas that do quite well. The cost of adapting for the us market in both product and production likely drove the decision, but it seems short sighted.

Let's not ignore the fact that car sales are still strong. Declining, but they remain strong and profitable if executed right. Having no car position at all will be an interesting one during the next "fuel crisis", which we're realistically not that far from. No crossover is as fuel efficient as a car because :science:

Remember during 2008 when worthless Geo Metros were suddenly worth $10k?
Ford has always been :crang: about decisions on their cars, ultimately lending them to rot on the vine and then become so outdated they're irrelevant.

As far as their current cars, Focus and Fiesta just got a refresh and would be available. Fusion current model came out in 2013 so it's 5 years old it should be redone but they're settling on facelift only.

I actually think the larger issue is the Escape is getting up there in age now. They've gotta be thinking the Escape and Edge will be their new bread and butter, right? Many reviews are already saying the Escape at least feels dated, having come out in 2013 it's 6 model years old. They're selling an assload of these right now, and will sell even more if they get rid of the Focus so it'll artifically pad the number, and I could just see them :crang: on that too. They've gotta stay on top of it.

3 new products in the pipeline though, with the Ranger, Bronco, and "small off roader" concept.

I think if they can blend in some Subaru Crosstrek type vehicles with Jeep type vehicles they'll do fine.
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Tax payer will just bail them out anyway, so NFG if oil hits 8$ per gallon and sales tank
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KYGTIGuy wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:28 am Tax payer will just bail them out anyway, so NFG if oil hits 8$ per gallon and sales tank
Tax payer didn't bail Ford out last time because Ford was ahead of the game restructuring their company. Ford is being proactive here to known market conditions. Honda just updated the Accord. They can't meet sales targets. Why should Ford spend a ton of money to develop a new Fusion if it's going to just linger on the lots unsold?

IMO they're being smart here. If shit hits the fan on oil prices they have their hybrid systems they can fall back on to boost fuel mileage. Focus is sticking around and they could make that prius-like in fuel sipping if they needed to. Oil isn't going to skyrocket any time soon, because if it does, domestic production will ramp back up to counter it.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:33 am
KYGTIGuy wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:28 am Tax payer will just bail them out anyway, so NFG if oil hits 8$ per gallon and sales tank
Tax payer didn't bail Ford out last time because Ford was ahead of the game restructuring their company. Ford is being proactive here to known market conditions. Honda just updated the Accord. They can't meet sales targets. Why should Ford spend a ton of money to develop a new Fusion if it's going to just linger on the lots unsold?

IMO they're being smart here. If shit hits the fan on oil prices they have their hybrid systems they can fall back on to boost fuel mileage. Focus is sticking around and they could make that prius-like in fuel sipping if they needed to. Oil isn't going to skyrocket any time soon, because if it does, domestic production will ramp back up to counter it.
And if it goes to shit, tax payers will bail them out anyway.

Im not making some larger point on their strategy. I hope it works.
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Davestr wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:23 am https://wolfstreet.com/2018/04/25/carma ... ed-to-die/

Interesting analysis. Some interesting comments as well in the comment section. OPEC appears to be gaining strength again, and will the US consumer regret the big truck obsession sooner rather than later?
If your standard of living is meaningfully affected by the cost of a gallon of gas, you've got no business buying a truk
in the first place. If you have long commutes, you should get a fuel efficient vehicle during ANY GAS PRICE situation unless you're loaded/waxer. If you don't have a long commute and $5/gal gas makes you sell your truk, you're just broke AF and living month to month anyway. :doomed:
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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Premium is high $3s/$4 here in Commiefornia anyway. If gas really does go through the roof, we've loaded so much tax into a gallon of gas that $7/gallon is easily reachable. Guadalupe will not be pleased.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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Desertbreh wrote:Premium is high $3s/$4 here in Commiefornia anyway. If gas really does go through the roof, we've loaded so much tax into a gallon of gas that $7/gallon is easily reachable. Guadalupe will not be pleased.
Gas will keep going up. I have guaranteed that by purchasing a gas guzzling sports car, just like I've guaranteed that the stock market is going nowhere since I'm back in it. Whatever I do always turns out to be :wrong:
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Desertbreh wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:24 pm
Davestr wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:23 am https://wolfstreet.com/2018/04/25/carma ... ed-to-die/

Interesting analysis. Some interesting comments as well in the comment section. OPEC appears to be gaining strength again, and will the US consumer regret the big truck obsession sooner rather than later?
If your standard of living is meaningfully affected by the cost of a gallon of gas, you've got no business buying a truk
in the first place. If you have long commutes, you should get a fuel efficient vehicle during ANY GAS PRICE situation unless you're loaded/waxer. If you don't have a long commute and $5/gal gas makes you sell your truk, you're just broke AF and living month to month anyway. :doomed:
You just described most Americans
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KYGTIGuy wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:34 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:24 pm

If your standard of living is meaningfully affected by the cost of a gallon of gas, you've got no business buying a truk
in the first place. If you have long commutes, you should get a fuel efficient vehicle during ANY GAS PRICE situation unless you're loaded/waxer. If you don't have a long commute and $5/gal gas makes you sell your truk, you're just broke AF and living month to month anyway. :doomed:
You just described most Americans
:dat:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:03 pm
KYGTIGuy wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:34 pm

You just described most Americans
:dat:
Im always curious to know the story of why brand new cars with under 5k miles on them that have been titled end up for sale used

Divorce? Didn't know how much it was to insure? What the fuck happened? That's a huge lots of funds.

Someone start a blog
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KYGTIGuy wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:26 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:03 pm
:dat:
Im always curious to know the story of why brand new cars with under 5k miles on them that have been titled end up for sale used

Divorce? Didn't know how much it was to insure? What the fuck happened? That's a huge lots of funds.

Someone start a blog
There are a lot more people than you would think that are just :plac: for any number of reasons. Same people who are on their 12th relationship in 5 years, 12th job in 5 years, etc. Especially wimmenz. They buy a car and are :triggered: by some aspect of it and just can't stand it. No lecture from Maximillian Zhukov about the transactional costs, taxes, depreciation etc. utterly flushed down the toilet will sway them. Gotta :plac:
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:52 am http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/0 ... -vehicles/

Audi recalling over 1 million cars with the 2.0T engine because apparently water causes electrical water pumps to short out.

:derp:
Posted that yesterday no one here said shite lol! :like:
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German cooling systems not working properly is not news.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:44 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:18 am I think abandoning cars will bite some OEMs eventually. Car segments are still big sales, and gas WILL get more expensive at some point.
This is my belief.

Remember in the mid-2000's when everyone bought a full size truck/Tahoe/Surburban/Hummer and gas hit $5/gallon in California? Next thing you know, Prius' are on the rise and tons of used trucks on the market.

It will happen again, sooner than later and I think Ferd is going to pay for this decision.
:like: :like: :like: + a billion barrels at about 80$ and the reality will change for some ...........again. We never learn.
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