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Johnny_P wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:03 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:01 pm

The older the tech the better it sells. :fullretard:
The rear drums thing is fucking retarded.
:dat:
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Johnny_P wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:03 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:01 pm

The older the tech the better it sells. :fullretard:
The rear drums thing is fucking retarded.
When it first came out during the "redesign" they said it was to prevent "dust and sand" from entering the braking system :fullretard:
I have now watched a few vids where the lead engineer got questions about it ... and he mentioned "service cost" and some other bs, essentially full on admitting that it is simply to save money.

I frankly don't understand it.. it is such an obvious issue that can't possibly cost more than $200 per vehicle... yet they throw on a $800 "snorkel" but refuse to fix the fucking brakes.

Just dumb... but
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79351.html

it is interesting... 4 runner is actually flat to LY... but will likely move 120k units for the year...
taco is UP 5% even with the new ranger in place etc... and will likely move 240k units for the year... people are buying them because the big 3 obviously can't make something that can steal market share from toyota, the fact that they are growing sales in a market with 200% more competition is :impressive: and they are not doing it through discunts.

Ranger is half assed, colorado seems to be hit and miss based on this forums experience alone, and the JT hasn't made a dent just yet.

I would expect it to cause a bit of pressure on the TURD PRO lines... yet.. a loaded TURD is 46k with the snorkel and a loaded JT is 63k. it is an entire corolla more expensive for essentially the same thing... :triggered: but the lockers.... and crawl ratio... guess what no one gives a fk.
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My $500 chinese bicycle has 8 speeds and disc brakes in the rear.
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troyguitar wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:14 pm My $500 chinese bicycle has 8 speeds and disc brakes in the rear.
But does it have a snorkel and TURD badging and FOX SHOCKS for the MALL
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I got in an argument with finance at GM who claimed rear drum brakes saved $100 per vehicle IN COST over disk brakes. They wanted to switch the Colorado to that to increase margins. Didn't take long to collect all the negative press on the Tacoma to convince them it was a bad idea.

:rolleyes:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:28 pm I got in an argument with finance at GM who claimed rear drum brakes saved $100 per vehicle IN COST over disk brakes. They wanted to switch the Colorado to that to increase margins. Didn't take long to collect all the negative press on the Tacoma to convince them it was a bad idea.

:rolleyes:
The focus group didn't demand drum brakes??? Since they all drive Taco's... :lol:
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Apex wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:28 pm I got in an argument with finance at GM who claimed rear drum brakes saved $100 per vehicle IN COST over disk brakes. They wanted to switch the Colorado to that to increase margins. Didn't take long to collect all the negative press on the Tacoma to convince them it was a bad idea.

:rolleyes:
The focus group didn't demand drum brakes??? Since they all drive Taco's... :lol:
:lolol: Good point! I should have looked at focus group data.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:28 pm I got in an argument with finance at GM who claimed rear drum brakes saved $100 per vehicle IN COST over disk brakes. They wanted to switch the Colorado to that to increase margins. Didn't take long to collect all the negative press on the Tacoma to convince them it was a bad idea.

:rolleyes:
I am in charge of these types of decisions at my current company... and I would never let that slide. It is just fucking stupid.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:38 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:28 pm I got in an argument with finance at GM who claimed rear drum brakes saved $100 per vehicle IN COST over disk brakes. They wanted to switch the Colorado to that to increase margins. Didn't take long to collect all the negative press on the Tacoma to convince them it was a bad idea.

:rolleyes:
I am in charge of these types of decisions at my current company... and I would never let that slide. It is just fucking stupid.
Yea, but that's because you care.

The finance people I worked with didn't even know the difference between drum and disk brakes and why anyone would care. Objective performance data shows they're the same (on the rear), so to the finance people spending more for the same result was :fullretard:

I legit had to argue with a director of finance about this. I was tasked with putting together a business case and everything to prove that switching to drum brakes in the rear would result in lost sales.

:mindblown:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:16 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:14 pm My $500 chinese bicycle has 8 speeds and disc brakes in the rear.
But does it have a snorkel and TURD badging and FOX SHOCKS for the MALL
It's not even a real snorkel. It's a "desert intake".
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:12 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:03 pm

The rear drums thing is fucking retarded.
When it first came out during the "redesign" they said it was to prevent "dust and sand" from entering the braking system :fullretard:
I have now watched a few vids where the lead engineer got questions about it ... and he mentioned "service cost" and some other bs, essentially full on admitting that it is simply to save money.

I frankly don't understand it.. it is such an obvious issue that can't possibly cost more than $200 per vehicle... yet they throw on a $800 "snorkel" but refuse to fix the fucking brakes.

Just dumb... but
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79351.html

it is interesting... 4 runner is actually flat to LY... but will likely move 120k units for the year...
taco is UP 5% even with the new ranger in place etc... and will likely move 240k units for the year... people are buying them because the big 3 obviously can't make something that can steal market share from toyota, the fact that they are growing sales in a market with 200% more competition is :impressive: and they are not doing it through discunts.

Ranger is half assed, colorado seems to be hit and miss based on this forums experience alone, and the JT hasn't made a dent just yet.

I would expect it to cause a bit of pressure on the TURD PRO lines... yet.. a loaded TURD is 46k with the snorkel and a loaded JT is 63k. it is an entire corolla more expensive for essentially the same thing... :triggered: but the lockers.... and crawl ratio... guess what no one gives a fk.
I think anyone who isn't a diehard Jeep fanboi is going to have a hard time justifying the premium pricing of the JT in what is quickly becoming a rather competitive market.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:49 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:38 pm

I am in charge of these types of decisions at my current company... and I would never let that slide. It is just fucking stupid.
Yea, but that's because you care.

The finance people I worked with didn't even know the difference between drum and disk brakes and why anyone would care. Objective performance data shows they're the same (on the rear), so to the finance people spending more for the same result was :fullretard:

I legit had to argue with a director of finance about this. I was tasked with putting together a business case and everything to prove that switching to drum brakes in the rear would result in lost sales.

:mindblown:
I mean that sort of makes sense, but then how the FK do you design a complete non POS shitbox that isn't made in china. It's cheaper but it's WRONG.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:50 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:16 pm

But does it have a snorkel and TURD badging and FOX SHOCKS for the MALL
It's not even a real snorkel. It's a "desert intake".
Until the axle breathers are extended, no snorkels are "real snorkels"
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:51 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:12 pm

When it first came out during the "redesign" they said it was to prevent "dust and sand" from entering the braking system :fullretard:
I have now watched a few vids where the lead engineer got questions about it ... and he mentioned "service cost" and some other bs, essentially full on admitting that it is simply to save money.

I frankly don't understand it.. it is such an obvious issue that can't possibly cost more than $200 per vehicle... yet they throw on a $800 "snorkel" but refuse to fix the fucking brakes.

Just dumb... but
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79351.html

it is interesting... 4 runner is actually flat to LY... but will likely move 120k units for the year...
taco is UP 5% even with the new ranger in place etc... and will likely move 240k units for the year... people are buying them because the big 3 obviously can't make something that can steal market share from toyota, the fact that they are growing sales in a market with 200% more competition is :impressive: and they are not doing it through discunts.

Ranger is half assed, colorado seems to be hit and miss based on this forums experience alone, and the JT hasn't made a dent just yet.

I would expect it to cause a bit of pressure on the TURD PRO lines... yet.. a loaded TURD is 46k with the snorkel and a loaded JT is 63k. it is an entire corolla more expensive for essentially the same thing... :triggered: but the lockers.... and crawl ratio... guess what no one gives a fk.
I think anyone who isn't a diehard Jeep fanboi is going to have a hard time justifying the premium pricing of the JT in what is quickly becoming a rather competitive market.
They already have 5-10k on the hood, 1 month into the market... :popcorn: that MSRP was an insane pipedream. The brand is not strong enough to carry such a huge premium over a TURD PRO.
I mean this may drive more sales for toyota even...

:derp: checks out rubi gladiator because rubi=turd bro ... $800 a month... :triggered: i can't afford that at my entry level job...

goes to toyota...

:dillerman: what's the monthly for a TURD BRO, I go fishing once a year and I need a :truk:

:dillerman: what payment you looking for ? We can make anything work...

:derp: Rubi was $800 a month ... i can't afford that

:dillerman: we can do $600 a month for 72 and 10k down...

:derp: OMG AWESOME YOU'RE SAVING ME MONEY :iono: $200 a month cheaper.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:52 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:49 pm
Yea, but that's because you care.

The finance people I worked with didn't even know the difference between drum and disk brakes and why anyone would care. Objective performance data shows they're the same (on the rear), so to the finance people spending more for the same result was :fullretard:

I legit had to argue with a director of finance about this. I was tasked with putting together a business case and everything to prove that switching to drum brakes in the rear would result in lost sales.

:mindblown:
I mean that sort of makes sense, but then how the FK do you design a complete non POS shitbox that isn't made in china. It's cheaper but it's WRONG.
It's my job to make sure we didn't make a complete non POS shitbox. The yin to the finance yang.

Though, from my brief experience at FCA, even finance people know the difference between disk and drum brakes.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:54 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:50 pm

It's not even a real snorkel. It's a "desert intake".
Until the axle breathers are extended, no snorkels are "real snorkels"
Hey I want this on my 2045 Wrangler
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:55 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:51 pm

I think anyone who isn't a diehard Jeep fanboi is going to have a hard time justifying the premium pricing of the JT in what is quickly becoming a rather competitive market.
They already have 5-10k on the hood, 1 month into the market... :popcorn: that MSRP was an insane pipedream. The brand is not strong enough to carry such a huge premium over a TURD PRO.
I mean this may drive more sales for toyota even...

:derp: checks out rubi gladiator because rubi=turd bro ... $800 a month... :triggered: i can't afford that at my entry level job...

goes to toyota...

:dillerman: what's the monthly for a TURD BRO, I go fishing once a year and I need a :truk:

:dillerman: what payment you looking for ? We can make anything work...

:derp: Rubi was $800 a month ... i can't afford that

:dillerman: we can do $600 a month for 72 and 10k down...

:derp: OMG AWESOME YOU'RE SAVING ME MONEY :iono: $200 a month cheaper.
Rising tides lifts all boats. That's why the Tacoma is doing so well still.

People look at Ranger, realize it's a POS go look at Tacoma and buy one

etc.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:57 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:54 pm
Until the axle breathers are extended, no snorkels are "real snorkels"
Hey I want this on my 2045 Wrangler
Noted. Submarine mode in the works.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:56 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:52 pm

I mean that sort of makes sense, but then how the FK do you design a complete non POS shitbox that isn't made in china. It's cheaper but it's WRONG.
It's my job to make sure we didn't make a complete non POS shitbox. The yin to the finance yang.

Though, from my brief experience at FCA, even finance people know the difference between disk and drum brakes.
Not knowing the products is insane to me... I mean you work for the damn company how do you NOT know... in my last gig i had to know 200, now i have to know the ins and outs of 40/50. That's part of the job... or any finance job I have held for the matter.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:58 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:57 pm

Hey I want this on my 2045 Wrangler
Noted. Submarine mode in the works.
Awesome I don't want to get wet with the doors off either
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:00 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:58 pm
Noted. Submarine mode in the works.
Awesome I don't want to get wet with the doors off either
Air bubble with doors off. Got it.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:49 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:38 pm

I am in charge of these types of decisions at my current company... and I would never let that slide. It is just fucking stupid.
Yea, but that's because you care.

The finance people I worked with didn't even know the difference between drum and disk brakes and why anyone would care. Objective performance data shows they're the same (on the rear), so to the finance people spending more for the same result was :fullretard:

I legit had to argue with a director of finance about this. I was tasked with putting together a business case and everything to prove that switching to drum brakes in the rear would result in lost sales.

:mindblown:
Gotta love people making decisions on products that they don't give a fuck about.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:59 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:56 pm
It's my job to make sure we didn't make a complete non POS shitbox. The yin to the finance yang.

Though, from my brief experience at FCA, even finance people know the difference between disk and drum brakes.
Not knowing the products is insane to me... I mean you work for the damn company how do you NOT know... in my last gig i had to know 200, now i have to know the ins and outs of 40/50. That's part of the job... or any finance job I have held for the matter.
It always blew my mind. I could never understand how so many people knew so little about the product and it didn't matter.

The last dude I worked with at GM claimed to care. He'd always ask me to explain the benefits of features we were adding or pricing...which usually resulted in me just doing his job because he didn't care about doing his job.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:02 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:49 pm
Yea, but that's because you care.

The finance people I worked with didn't even know the difference between drum and disk brakes and why anyone would care. Objective performance data shows they're the same (on the rear), so to the finance people spending more for the same result was :fullretard:

I legit had to argue with a director of finance about this. I was tasked with putting together a business case and everything to prove that switching to drum brakes in the rear would result in lost sales.

:mindblown:
Gotta love people making decisions on products that they don't give a fuck about.
That's GM. Starts to make sense looking at their current product lineup.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:02 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:49 pm
Yea, but that's because you care.

The finance people I worked with didn't even know the difference between drum and disk brakes and why anyone would care. Objective performance data shows they're the same (on the rear), so to the finance people spending more for the same result was :fullretard:

I legit had to argue with a director of finance about this. I was tasked with putting together a business case and everything to prove that switching to drum brakes in the rear would result in lost sales.

:mindblown:
Gotta love people making decisions on products that they don't give a fuck about.
That's how you end up with a fucking Fraud Ranger... or any of the other garbage they put out in the last 5 years...
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