Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep

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3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:36 am
[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:28 am

You need to tow things, no? :notsure:
Unfortunately that would be the limiting factor. Gladiator costs too much right now, and I don't think the 3.6 would enjoy towing too much.
3.6 should be fine power wise for towing, as long as the trans/trans programming is up to the task as well.
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Apex wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 am
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:36 am

Unfortunately that would be the limiting factor. Gladiator costs too much right now, and I don't think the 3.6 would enjoy towing too much.
3.6 should be fine power wise for towing, as long as the trans/trans programming is up to the task as well.
Won't get dat 22mpg though.
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Apex wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 am
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:36 am

Unfortunately that would be the limiting factor. Gladiator costs too much right now, and I don't think the 3.6 would enjoy towing too much.
3.6 should be fine power wise for towing, as long as the trans/trans programming is up to the task as well.
Yea...I'm optimistic on this front. The trans programming the JL is super eager to downshift...it's really a lot of fun. Complete opposite of the :bs: in the Colorado.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:04 am
Apex wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 am

3.6 should be fine power wise for towing, as long as the trans/trans programming is up to the task as well.
Won't get dat 22mpg though.
:hellno:
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:09 am
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:36 am

Unfortunately that would be the limiting factor. Gladiator costs too much right now, and I don't think the 3.6 would enjoy towing too much.
JLU is capped at 3500 lbs, same as the JKU. It's a tail wagging the dog situation - short wheelbase and soft springs do not a good tow vehicle make.

GM offering to play with a Lemon case on the table, or are you trying to wash your hands of the General?
I believe I'm trying to wash my hands of anything GM made within the last 5 years (especially new), but it's a good package overall. I was leaning towards Taco/Tundra TRD models but want to see what's going on.

I have a lemon law case going, but was told not to bring it up to the dealership. :iono:
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3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:16 am
[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:09 am

JLU is capped at 3500 lbs, same as the JKU. It's a tail wagging the dog situation - short wheelbase and soft springs do not a good tow vehicle make.

GM offering to play with a Lemon case on the table, or are you trying to wash your hands of the General?
I believe I'm trying to wash my hands of anything GM made within the last 5 years (especially new), but it's a good package overall. I was leaning towards Taco/Tundra TRD models but want to see what's going on.

I have a lemon law case going, but was told not to bring it up to the dealership. :iono:
Oh, you hired an external laywer to handle?

Usually, GM wants to handle a case before it reaches a Lemon Law suit. That gets costly, and it's easier to solve before. If they don't know you're bringing the suit, they can't work to fix it (buy back) first.

That said, buy-backs usually involve getting a new GM vehicle. If you're looking to wash your hands of GM, then the lawyer route is the way to go.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:24 am
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:16 am

I believe I'm trying to wash my hands of anything GM made within the last 5 years (especially new), but it's a good package overall. I was leaning towards Taco/Tundra TRD models but want to see what's going on.

I have a lemon law case going, but was told not to bring it up to the dealership. :iono:
Oh, you hired an external laywer to handle?

Usually, GM wants to handle a case before it reaches a Lemon Law suit. That gets costly, and it's easier to solve before. If they don't know you're bringing the suit, they can't work to fix it (buy back) first.

That said, buy-backs usually involve getting a new GM vehicle. If you're looking to wash your hands of GM, then the lawyer route is the way to go.
I had tried to bring it up with GM Customer Care prior to going the external route, but was told if it can't be replicated with the tech then there is no problem with the vehicle.
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3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:41 am
Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:24 am
Oh, you hired an external laywer to handle?

Usually, GM wants to handle a case before it reaches a Lemon Law suit. That gets costly, and it's easier to solve before. If they don't know you're bringing the suit, they can't work to fix it (buy back) first.

That said, buy-backs usually involve getting a new GM vehicle. If you're looking to wash your hands of GM, then the lawyer route is the way to go.
I had tried to bring it up with GM Customer Care prior to going the external route, but was told if it can't be replicated with the tech then there is no problem with the vehicle.
Wouldn't the lawyer say the same thing? Need documentation and evidence for a lawsuit, no?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:03 am
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:41 am

I had tried to bring it up with GM Customer Care prior to going the external route, but was told if it can't be replicated with the tech then there is no problem with the vehicle.
Wouldn't the lawyer say the same thing? Need documentation and evidence for a lawsuit, no?
He has videos of the issue happening and has shown it to the service techs. They've just had the typical response of "We updated the software, so... :iono: "
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:03 am
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:41 am

I had tried to bring it up with GM Customer Care prior to going the external route, but was told if it can't be replicated with the tech then there is no problem with the vehicle.
Wouldn't the lawyer say the same thing? Need documentation and evidence for a lawsuit, no?
Yeah sorry, I worded that incorrectly. That was their stance when I contacted GM, since then I have brought the truck to the dealer with the screen flashing, sending videos of every single occurrence, and the GM tech assistance dept just keeps having them re-run the same programming 'fix' that was released in September. I brought it to the dealership on Friday as I had not heard from them in a while after sending some emails and they scheduled another appointment for Wednesday morning...this is when she said they were told there is no fix if the programming TSB did not resolve it.
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3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:02 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:03 am
Wouldn't the lawyer say the same thing? Need documentation and evidence for a lawsuit, no?
Yeah sorry, I worded that incorrectly. That was their stance when I contacted GM, since then I have brought the truck to the dealer with the screen flashing, sending videos of every single occurrence, and the GM tech assistance dept just keeps having them re-run the same programming 'fix' that was released in September. I brought it to the dealership on Friday as I had not heard from them in a while after sending some emails and they scheduled another appointment for Wednesday morning...this is when she said they were told there is no fix if the programming TSB did not resolve it.
Has the dealer replaced the cluster?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:16 am
Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:03 am So the brake upgrade uses the same calipers, but different carriers that allow for larger pads on the larger rotors?

That's legit :notbad:
Si, kinda. Not necessarily larger pads. I'd imagine someone makes a larger pad, but I just got new OE-sized pads.

Regardless, I'm impressed with the result. Better pedal feel and bite, and much better stopping power.
Ray did this. I thought it was stupid then and still think its stupid now. You are literally adding a SLIGHTLY larger rotor with the same sized pad. The the pad surface area doesn't increase, you are simply moving the clamping force further out in diameter which can theoretically increase braking torque.

I also drove it compared to my stock JKU. I found zero improved braking performance. I can't see why this is a thing people spend money on.

Edit: If you like it, its your car. Are you tied to only buying rotors from that seller or is there an off the shelf supplier>?
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:07 pm
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:02 pm

Yeah sorry, I worded that incorrectly. That was their stance when I contacted GM, since then I have brought the truck to the dealer with the screen flashing, sending videos of every single occurrence, and the GM tech assistance dept just keeps having them re-run the same programming 'fix' that was released in September. I brought it to the dealership on Friday as I had not heard from them in a while after sending some emails and they scheduled another appointment for Wednesday morning...this is when she said they were told there is no fix if the programming TSB did not resolve it.
Has the dealer replaced the cluster?
Nope, they have only focused on the software/firmware side of things as I suppose that is the direction they were told to go per GM.
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3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:20 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:07 pm
Has the dealer replaced the cluster?
Nope, they have only focused on the software/firmware side of things as I suppose that is the direction they were told to go per GM.
Very weird. So if software doesn't work, they'll tell you to pound sand?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:26 pm
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:20 pm

Nope, they have only focused on the software/firmware side of things as I suppose that is the direction they were told to go per GM.
Very weird. So if software doesn't work, they'll tell you to pound sand?
He got a Tesla? :lol:
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:26 pm
3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:20 pm

Nope, they have only focused on the software/firmware side of things as I suppose that is the direction they were told to go per GM.
Very weird. So if software doesn't work, they'll tell you to pound sand?
That's what I have been told since my first complaint of the issue :iono:
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3rdgenfan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:32 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:26 pm
Very weird. So if software doesn't work, they'll tell you to pound sand?
That's what I have been told since my first complaint of the issue :iono:
Wow. Did you ever try to escalate directly with GM?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Apex wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:29 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:26 pm
Very weird. So if software doesn't work, they'll tell you to pound sand?
He got a Tesla? :lol:
#worstbrandintheworld.
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:46 pm
dubshow wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:14 pm

Ray did this. I thought it was stupid then and still think its stupid now. You are literally adding a SLIGHTLY larger rotor with the same sized pad. The the pad surface area doesn't increase, you are simply moving the clamping force further out in diameter which can theoretically increase braking torque.

I also drove it compared to my stock JKU. I found zero improved braking performance. I can't see why this is a thing people spend money on.

Edit: If you like it, its your car. Are you tied to only buying rotors from that seller or is there an off the shelf supplier>?
It's not placebo, it does work. Same idea is utilized on mountain bikes - big rotors with the same pad/caliper. Plus, more surface area to help keep from overheating the brakes is always a good thing.

Granted, it's not as optimized as using a bigger pad + a bigger rotor, but moving the leverage point out does help. Braking is significantly improved.
maths are hard for some people. The relationship is linear. Increase distance pads are from the hub by 10%, all else equal, braking force increases by 10%.
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Johnny_P wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:46 pm
[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:46 pm

It's not placebo, it does work. Same idea is utilized on mountain bikes - big rotors with the same pad/caliper. Plus, more surface area to help keep from overheating the brakes is always a good thing.

Granted, it's not as optimized as using a bigger pad + a bigger rotor, but moving the leverage point out does help. Braking is significantly improved.
maths are hard for some people. The relationship is linear. Increase distance pads are from the hub by 10%, all else equal, braking force increases by 10%.
not hard at all. :fax: said the same thing. I'm just reporting I didnt feel or notice any better braking on the upsize.
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Johnny_P wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:46 pm
[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:46 pm

It's not placebo, it does work. Same idea is utilized on mountain bikes - big rotors with the same pad/caliper. Plus, more surface area to help keep from overheating the brakes is always a good thing.

Granted, it's not as optimized as using a bigger pad + a bigger rotor, but moving the leverage point out does help. Braking is significantly improved.
maths are hard for some people. The relationship is linear. Increase distance pads are from the hub by 10%, all else equal, braking force increases by 10%.
Also, increased cooling :iono: I think it's a :neat: mod for tree hunnit.
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I think it's a :neat: thing to do, even it is only "10%" better or whatever, the :jeep: could always benefit from bigger brakes + they were due anyways. So why not...
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:01 pm
dubshow wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:07 pm

not hard at all. :fax: said the same thing. I'm just reporting I didnt feel or notice any better braking on the upsize.
Did he do new pads at the same time? Or just slap old pads on fresh rotorz?

I was a little :notsure: but the :science: checks out so far. Braking is vastly improved. I have to use way less pedal pressure to bring the :jeep: to a stahp now.
couldnt answer that part of it. I am still :notsure: on it but if you can tell a diff and like it then it was worth it.

what about replacing rotors in future? is there and off shelf item you can easily get that fits?
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dubshow wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:23 pm
[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:01 pm

Did he do new pads at the same time? Or just slap old pads on fresh rotorz?

I was a little :notsure: but the :science: checks out so far. Braking is vastly improved. I have to use way less pedal pressure to bring the :jeep: to a stahp now.
couldnt answer that part of it. I am still :notsure: on it but if you can tell a diff and like it then it was worth it.

what about replacing rotors in future? is there and off shelf item you can easily get that fits?
He would have to keep the :jeep: for more than 6 months for that to be an issue :doe:

:plac:
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[user not found] wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:21 pm
D Griff wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:13 pm

He would have to keep the :jeep: for more than 6 months for that to be an issue :doe:

:plac:
:dat:

FWIW Rotors are tied to the BRK manufacturer at $115/ea. I'm looking to keep the :jeep: to 60k/2 more years. Then it's someone else's problem. :trollface:

:rage: "But I ordered the rotors that matched the VIN!"
:derp: "But why don't they fit?"

Truly, I'd love a JL, but I refuse to pay JL prices (and quite honestly, I like the simplicity of the JK). The JL introduces things like pushbutton start, high-voltage mild-hybrid systems, auto-stop, etc. :notsure:
They are not that different in terms of “simplicity”
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