Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep

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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:21 pm#kidfree
It is hugely cheaper until they hit 30 y/o or so and then help you... until then ... :mindblown: expensive if you're not a welfare recipient which is why most people in the real middle class can't afford it or cut down on this luxury.
Lady :melon: has a daughter who will be 12 at the end of this month. - Who doesn't live with us.
After both of us dealing with our mother's in the end, neither one of us will put any burden like that on her.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:21 pm#kidfree
It is hugely cheaper until they hit 30 y/o or so and then help you... until then ... :mindblown: expensive if you're not a welfare recipient which is why most people in the real middle class can't afford it or cut down on this luxury.
I doubt they'll ever pay back all they cost. There is no financial benefit from children, only burden.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:19 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:12 pm

$40k/year after tax is absolutely enough to spend an additional $10k on cars, $10k on vacations, and put the other half into retiring early... :math:

Life is cheap outside of vacations, cars, and paying for housing in a few metro areas.
I did the math this weekend actually. I want to retire early with the AZN. We mapped our income and expenses for the next 6 years... Early retirement isn't in the cards unless we swear of crotchfruit completely and don't spend more than 50k a year on living, which is REALLY hard. Our baseline is 65-70k anything less you start cutting stuff out. Shitty place to live, no steak, cheap cars etc.
~400 a month on food
~750 a month on travel
~1200 a month on two vehicles/insurance/gas etc we're talking cheapish vehicles like her TSX and my Civic.
~500 a month on eating out
~2000 a month for miscellaneous expenses that pop up for either one of us (health insurance, clothes etc, averaged out)
~2500 a month on an apartment or a house in some bumfuckegypt.
~70k a year CLEAN right there. That's 700k you need to SAVE to get only 10 years out of it...
Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes total less than $800/mo and it would be paid off in retirement - housing total would be more like $250/mo, not $2500... though that cost reduction will be largely offset by the increased cost of healthcare, so we'll spend roughly what we spend now which is more like $50k a year. Your extra housing costs make your life almost 50% more expensive than ours!

Counting company contributions, we effectively save about $40k a year now toward an age 65 retirement. Bumping that up to $60k via making the DFD average income would absolutely bring the target age down to roughly age 55, leaving $20k to blow on cars and vacations like a regular DFD member. That's with conservative :math: because I think the market/economy are :doomed: - or at least anything I invest in always ends up being a loser.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:27 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 pm

It is hugely cheaper until they hit 30 y/o or so and then help you... until then ... :mindblown: expensive if you're not a welfare recipient which is why most people in the real middle class can't afford it or cut down on this luxury.
I doubt they'll ever pay back all they cost. There is no financial benefit from children, only burden.
Depends on your culture. The AZN paid her parents back for her life in full and then some.
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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:28 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:27 pm
I doubt they'll ever pay back all they cost. There is no financial benefit from children, only burden.
Depends on your culture. The AZN paid her parents back for her life in full and then some.
That's typically* not a part of American culture.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:27 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:19 pm

I did the math this weekend actually. I want to retire early with the AZN. We mapped our income and expenses for the next 6 years... Early retirement isn't in the cards unless we swear of crotchfruit completely and don't spend more than 50k a year on living, which is REALLY hard. Our baseline is 65-70k anything less you start cutting stuff out. Shitty place to live, no steak, cheap cars etc.
~400 a month on food
~750 a month on travel
~1200 a month on two vehicles/insurance/gas etc we're talking cheapish vehicles like her TSX and my Civic.
~500 a month on eating out
~2000 a month for miscellaneous expenses that pop up for either one of us (health insurance, clothes etc, averaged out)
~2500 a month on an apartment or a house in some bumfuckegypt.
~70k a year CLEAN right there. That's 700k you need to SAVE to get only 10 years out of it...
Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes total less than $800/mo and it would be paid off in retirement - housing total would be more like $250/mo, not $2500... though that cost reduction will be largely offset by the increased cost of healthcare, so we'll spend roughly what we spend now which is more like $50k a year. Your extra housing costs make your life almost 50% more expensive than ours!

Counting company contributions, we effectively save about $40k a year now toward an age 65 retirement. Bumping that up to $60k via making the DFD average income would absolutely bring the target age down to roughly age 55, leaving $20k to blow on cars and vacations like a regular DFD member. That's with conservative :math: because I think the market/economy are :doomed: - or at least anything I invest in always ends up being a loser.
At retirement, I am not tied to any geographical area. I don't see how anything is possible at $800 a month. I'd like to understand how you get to that number. Even a 200k home, is around 1500-2000 all in when all is said and done. And 200k doesn't buy you shit in 90% of the country. Especially considering million dollar Detroit homes.

I actually did the :math: of buying a :waxer: home and or staying in my ghetto townhome, the result is actually a wash even though one increases the monthly by 6k. Real estate tends to appreciate above inflation and offset any monthly incremental and mortgage costs.
Last edited by max225 on Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Melon wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:29 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:28 pm

Depends on your culture. The AZN paid her parents back for her life in full and then some.
That's not a part of American culture.
Not at all.

Take. Take. Take. Take. Take. Take.


And take some more.

Seriously, these days you'd be lucky to have the kid in a job and on their own by the time they're 30. My 27 year old sister gets rent subsidized by my dad, and he's buying her a new car. She's "struggling" or something.

This is after he paid at least $250k for college and half that for private high school.

Meanwhile, I went to public school, in state undergrad, and have been on my own financially since 18.

My sister is the new norm.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I added typically* because it's a part of some cultures that people have brought over, and they're now Americans.
I'm an all inclusive :melon:
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:14 pm
dubshow wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:05 pm

They seem well provided for :iono:

realistically, he is probably $60k into that jeep. ~$1250/mo over the last 4 years. It isnt outright crazy if thats your life. We all spend over $1k on car bullshit per month in here.
I am around there... closer to 1k all in, but it isn't a toy it is my DD and primary transportation provider. I'd cringe at 1250 a month for a toy...
his toy IS his DD tho. So its 2 birds one stone.
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dubshow wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:34 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:14 pm

I am around there... closer to 1k all in, but it isn't a toy it is my DD and primary transportation provider. I'd cringe at 1250 a month for a toy...
his toy IS his DD tho. So its 2 birds one stone.
THAT is the way to live.
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I mean she was born in this country. Don't see how she is not American... depends on how you raise em.
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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:31 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:27 pm

Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes total less than $800/mo and it would be paid off in retirement - housing total would be more like $250/mo, not $2500... though that cost reduction will be largely offset by the increased cost of healthcare, so we'll spend roughly what we spend now which is more like $50k a year. Your extra housing costs make your life almost 50% more expensive than ours!

Counting company contributions, we effectively save about $40k a year now toward an age 65 retirement. Bumping that up to $60k via making the DFD average income would absolutely bring the target age down to roughly age 55, leaving $20k to blow on cars and vacations like a regular DFD member. That's with conservative :math: because I think the market/economy are :doomed: - or at least anything I invest in always ends up being a loser.
At retirement, I am not tied to any geographical area. I don't see how anything is possible at $800 a month. I'd like to understand how you get to that number. Even a 200k home, is around 1500-2000 all in when all is said and done. And 200k doesn't buy you shit in 90% of the country. Especially considering million dollar Detroit homes.

I actually did the :math: of buying a :waxer: home and or staying in my ghetto townhome, the result is actually a wash even though one increases the monthly by 6k. Real estate tends to appreciate above inflation and offset any monthly incremental and mortgage costs.
The :haus: payment is $494.83 on our $150k place, plus insurance and property taxes totaling $245.19. Straight off the current expense spreadsheet:

Mortgage $494.83
Home ins. and property taxes $245.19
Heat/Electric $150.00
Internet $65.00
Mobile phones $106.00
Trash $11.10
Water & Sewer $38.41
Vivint security $60.00
Trugreen $38.00
Gas (V) $135.00
Gas (T) $200.00
Car Maintenance $60.00
Car Washes $20.00
Car Insurance (V&T) $175.00
Car Payment (Mazda3) $427.00
Car Property tax $68.33
Groceries & Alcohol $400.00
Going Out - Food, Entertainment, etc. $250.00
Amazon Prime $8.75
Wax $20.00
Haircut (T) $15.00
Clothing (T) $30.00
Clothing (V) $30.00
Toiletries/personal $25.00
Credit Card annual fees $36.67
Travel/Misc $500.00

That's about $3600/mo from after tax income. Healthcare is another $7xx pre-tax. Our life costs about $50k/yr.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:32 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:29 pm

That's not a part of American culture.
Not at all.

Take. Take. Take. Take. Take. Take.


And take some more.

Seriously, these days you'd be lucky to have the kid in a job and on their own by the time they're 30. My 27 year old sister gets rent subsidized by my dad, and he's buying her a new car. She's "struggling" or something.

This is after he paid at least $250k for college and half that for private high school.

Meanwhile, I went to public school, in state undergrad, and have been on my own financially since 18.

My sister is the new norm.
My 30 year old sister is the same but with smaller numbers - no private schools and only community college. Dad bought a :haus: to have as a rental, but instead she lives in it rent-free with her 2 kids from different baby daddies, neither of whom she's with anymore. She's always driven (and destroyed) used cars he buys and fixes for her. She has owned more cars than me and always ended her tenure with them via totaling them somehow. She went about 10 years without a driver's license from DUI's and AFAIK he paid for all of the lawyers and other :bs: associated with that too. :disgust:

We had the same parents and went to the same schools with the same teachers just a couple years apart, but somehow turned out entirely different. In that light, perhaps I did have some kind of :alpo: luck?

:jeep: :jeep: :jeep: :whocares:
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troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:39 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:31 pm

At retirement, I am not tied to any geographical area. I don't see how anything is possible at $800 a month. I'd like to understand how you get to that number. Even a 200k home, is around 1500-2000 all in when all is said and done. And 200k doesn't buy you shit in 90% of the country. Especially considering million dollar Detroit homes.

I actually did the :math: of buying a :waxer: home and or staying in my ghetto townhome, the result is actually a wash even though one increases the monthly by 6k. Real estate tends to appreciate above inflation and offset any monthly incremental and mortgage costs.
The :haus: payment is $494.83 on our $150k place, plus insurance and property taxes totaling $245.19. Straight off the current expense spreadsheet:

Mortgage $494.83
Home ins. and property taxes $245.19
Heat/Electric $150.00
Internet $65.00
Mobile phones $106.00
Trash $11.10
Water & Sewer $38.41
Vivint security $60.00
Trugreen $38.00
Gas (V) $135.00
Gas (T) $200.00
Car Maintenance $60.00
Car Washes $20.00
Car Insurance (V&T) $175.00
Car Payment (Mazda3) $427.00
Car Property tax $68.33
Groceries & Alcohol $400.00
Going Out - Food, Entertainment, etc. $250.00
Amazon Prime $8.75
Wax $20.00
Haircut (T) $15.00
Clothing (T) $30.00
Clothing (V) $30.00
Toiletries/personal $25.00
Credit Card annual fees $36.67
Travel/Misc $500.00

That's about $3600/mo from after tax income. Healthcare is another $7xx pre-tax. Our life costs about $50k/yr.
I don't see how $494 is possible without a huge downpayment.

https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/

Has got me at $1151 for something that is 150k, which is far below national average for a home. I think the cheapest decent home in an area that isn't full of :mahtroy: 's or middle of nowhere with terrible weather or no infrastructure like airports that are international etc is at least 300k.... likely even higher.
I am not using my own cheap mortgage payment as a proxy as i know I am far below average, as I am around 3x lower than the home "Costs" now.
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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:07 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:39 pm

The :haus: payment is $494.83 on our $150k place, plus insurance and property taxes totaling $245.19. Straight off the current expense spreadsheet:

Mortgage $494.83
Home ins. and property taxes $245.19
Heat/Electric $150.00
Internet $65.00
Mobile phones $106.00
Trash $11.10
Water & Sewer $38.41
Vivint security $60.00
Trugreen $38.00
Gas (V) $135.00
Gas (T) $200.00
Car Maintenance $60.00
Car Washes $20.00
Car Insurance (V&T) $175.00
Car Payment (Mazda3) $427.00
Car Property tax $68.33
Groceries & Alcohol $400.00
Going Out - Food, Entertainment, etc. $250.00
Amazon Prime $8.75
Wax $20.00
Haircut (T) $15.00
Clothing (T) $30.00
Clothing (V) $30.00
Toiletries/personal $25.00
Credit Card annual fees $36.67
Travel/Misc $500.00

That's about $3600/mo from after tax income. Healthcare is another $7xx pre-tax. Our life costs about $50k/yr.
I don't see how $494 is possible without a huge downpayment.

https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/

Has got me at $1151 for something that is 150k, which is far below national average for a home. I think the cheapest decent home in an area that isn't full of :mahtroy: 's or middle of nowhere with terrible weather or no infrastructure like airports that are international etc is at least 300k.... likely even higher.
I am not using my own cheap mortgage payment as a proxy as i know I am far below average, as I am around 3x lower than the home "Costs" now.
:wat:

$150k :haus: with $30k down
30 year at 3%
1800/yr tax
1000/yr insurance

$739.26/mo
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troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:10 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:07 pm

I don't see how $494 is possible without a huge downpayment.

https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/

Has got me at $1151 for something that is 150k, which is far below national average for a home. I think the cheapest decent home in an area that isn't full of :mahtroy: 's or middle of nowhere with terrible weather or no infrastructure like airports that are international etc is at least 300k.... likely even higher.
I am not using my own cheap mortgage payment as a proxy as i know I am far below average, as I am around 3x lower than the home "Costs" now.
:wat:

$150k :haus: with $30k down
30 year at 3%
1800/yr tax
1000/yr insurance

$739.26/mo
3%? Current rates are 5%, also 0 down, you can't just ignore that money (the 30k). Otherwise, you can just say 149k down and finance 1k for 30 years.
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troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:10 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:07 pm

I don't see how $494 is possible without a huge downpayment.

https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/

Has got me at $1151 for something that is 150k, which is far below national average for a home. I think the cheapest decent home in an area that isn't full of :mahtroy: 's or middle of nowhere with terrible weather or no infrastructure like airports that are international etc is at least 300k.... likely even higher.
I am not using my own cheap mortgage payment as a proxy as i know I am far below average, as I am around 3x lower than the home "Costs" now.
:wat:

$150k :haus: with $30k down
30 year at 3%
1800/yr tax
1000/yr insurance

$739.26/mo
:dat:

:225: tryin to finance with 0% down lol.
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[user not found] wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:03 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:36 pm I mean she was born in this country. Don't see how she is not American... depends on how you raise em.
Were her parents, though?

Values more often than not come from your parents.
Nope, came here as teens, early dubs.
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dubshow wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:29 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:10 pm

:wat:

$150k :haus: with $30k down
30 year at 3%
1800/yr tax
1000/yr insurance

$739.26/mo
:dat:

:225: tryin to finance with 0% down lol.
It is difficult otherwise to assess the true monthly cost.
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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 pm
Melon wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:21 pm#kidfree
It is hugely cheaper until they hit 30 y/o or so and then help you... until then ... :mindblown: expensive if you're not a welfare recipient which is why most people in the real middle class can't afford it or cut down on this luxury.
Maybe in Sino-Russian culture. It's not a given in Murica.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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dubshow wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:29 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:10 pm

:wat:

$150k :haus: with $30k down
30 year at 3%
1800/yr tax
1000/yr insurance

$739.26/mo
:dat:

:225: tryin to finance with 0% down lol.
To get the $30k down, Troy had to essentially "pay himself rent." Look at it that way, and yeah what Max is saying makes sense, even though the math is a little fuzzier than he laid out.

:whocares: what's the monthly that's the only thing that matters
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Desertbreh wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:07 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 pm

It is hugely cheaper until they hit 30 y/o or so and then help you... until then ... :mindblown: expensive if you're not a welfare recipient which is why most people in the real middle class can't afford it or cut down on this luxury.
Maybe in Sino-Russian culture. It's not a given in Murica.
I hit 30 and my parents threw stock at me and forced me to go on a cruise :yikes:
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Johnny_P wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:09 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:07 pm

Maybe in Sino-Russian culture. It's not a given in Murica.
I hit 30 and my parents threw stock at me and forced me to go on a cruise :yikes:
:alpo: :millennial:
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If my kid started helping me at 30, I would be 64. I don't want help from people when I am 64. I want to be enjoying myself in retirement or dead.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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max225 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:19 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:12 pm

$40k/year after tax is absolutely enough to spend an additional $10k on cars, $10k on vacations, and put the other half into retiring early... :math:

Life is cheap outside of vacations, cars, and paying for housing in a few metro areas.
I did the math this weekend actually. I want to retire early with the AZN. We mapped our income and expenses for the next 6 years... Early retirement isn't in the cards unless we swear of crotchfruit completely and don't spend more than 50k a year on living, which is REALLY hard. Our baseline is 65-70k anything less you start cutting stuff out. Shitty place to live, no steak, cheap cars etc.
~400 a month on food
~750 a month on travel
~1200 a month on two vehicles/insurance/gas etc we're talking cheapish vehicles like her TSX and my Civic.
~500 a month on eating out
~2000 a month for miscellaneous expenses that pop up for either one of us (health insurance, clothes etc, averaged out)
~2500 a month on an apartment or a house in some bumfuckegypt.
~70k a year CLEAN right there. That's 700k you need to SAVE to get only 10 years out of it...
All of this shit^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^wow. You haven't lived under the same roof for this woman for a single day and you're planning an early retirement :mahtroy: program with her? Try before you buy.
And how do you know the Chinese switch isn't gonna flip when you marry her and she quits on you and turns into a crotchfruit vendor? :notsure:
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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