Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep

[D Griff]

I'm at whit's end here. Applying.

Would be great to be at the cutting edge of something for a change.

I hear they have a great employee lease deal on a gray Rubicunt JK that's coming in. "This baby just came in! You're getting the first crack at it. The carpets are even still wet from the steam cleaning!"

[D Griff]

so much potential for damage. @chalupabatman shows us the massive fuck ups in shipping. Crushed doors and roof/glass is way too common. They have literally squished cars with the ramp above.

How do you think cars get to dealerships when they’re brand new? The vast majority of auto transporters do know what they’re doing.

Granted, I’ve also seen videos of a brand new 30AE MX-5 being driven into a gap between ramps on a truck... but I digress.

It’s all about managing risk. Hire the drivers that do the best job with the best track record for a reasonable rate.

Everything is shipped. Tons of product is damaged in transit, just the cost of doing business.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

holy moly!





what is the term for jobs?

I'd say under 24 months at a given post... IMO.

I change jobs every 24 mos on average. Works well for me.

My most recent move is soul sucking, so I'm looking to pull the rip cord early.

[max225]

They're not doing in-house consumer financing that I can see.

But they have invested a ton of capital in the entire business, no doubt. But it could pay off big time if the service takes off.

They’re currently in talks to bring Chase on board for captive financing.

They have a lower overhead than traditional dealers due to a centralized distribution system based out of Texas. They’ve turned an unused shopping mall into a massive used car factory, essentially, where the whole reconditioning process takes place. They also don’t have traditional salespeople - they just have vehicle transaction specialists that just help assemble the deals and move the paperwork through the process. My paperwork is currently in the mail to me right now.

They acquire cars largely through auctions, but are making moves to increase their acquisition of vehicles through the public as well. Currently, Carmax has the highest percentage of consumer-acquired vehicles. Vroom is making moves to surpass them.

They also work closely with this company I’m currently training at to offer vehicle protection options to their buyers. One of the reasons I just learned a TON about Vroom. We spent a solid 20-30 minutes at the beginning of today’s class discussing their practices.

It’s all about convenience. The average buyer goes to 1.2 dealers before buying a car these days. That used to be 12-15 dealers in the late 80s/early 90s.

The game is changing quicker right now than it did in the last 30 years.

So their business model is buy at auction from OEM lease returns + ship to texas /recondition+ship to customers?

I don't see how that is significantly better of a model than Carmax... Carmax has on site servicing/0 sales pressure, you can actually drive the car and inspect it. And you can ship most of carmax cars from all over the country next to yourself...

I suppose i just don't see the "disruption" here.

The whole used car thing is just temporarily riding the lack of used inventory due to the sales slump of 08-13... It'll "correct" soon enough.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

They’re currently in talks to bring Chase on board for captive financing.

They have a lower overhead than traditional dealers due to a centralized distribution system based out of Texas. They’ve turned an unused shopping mall into a massive used car factory, essentially, where the whole reconditioning process takes place. They also don’t have traditional salespeople - they just have vehicle transaction specialists that just help assemble the deals and move the paperwork through the process. My paperwork is currently in the mail to me right now.

They acquire cars largely through auctions, but are making moves to increase their acquisition of vehicles through the public as well. Currently, Carmax has the highest percentage of consumer-acquired vehicles. Vroom is making moves to surpass them.

They also work closely with this company I’m currently training at to offer vehicle protection options to their buyers. One of the reasons I just learned a TON about Vroom. We spent a solid 20-30 minutes at the beginning of today’s class discussing their practices.

It’s all about convenience. The average buyer goes to 1.2 dealers before buying a car these days. That used to be 12-15 dealers in the late 80s/early 90s.

The game is changing quicker right now than it did in the last 30 years.

So their business model is buy at auction from OEM lease returns + ship to texas /recondition+ship to customers?

I don't see how that is significantly better of a model than Carmax... Carmax has on site servicing/0 sales pressure, you can actually drive the car and inspect it. And you can ship most of carmax cars from all over the country next to yourself...

I suppose i just don't see the "disruption" here.

The whole used car thing is just temporarily riding the lack of used inventory due to the sales slump of 08-13... It'll "correct" soon enough.

Carmax isn't everywhere...including the entire state of MI. They're limited by physical locations.

Vroom can be everywhere. That's pretty disruptive. Also...

To get to know your car, it takes more than a trip around the block. You have a full week (7 days or 250 miles) to make sure it’s right for you. If it’s not, we’ll take it back and refund the purchase price.

Obviously need to check the fine print on the amount of "refund", but if you can actually keep the thing for 7 days or 250 miles and return it if you don't like it with $0 out of pocket, that's game changing.

[max225]

Can you imagine a 5/10% return rate on cars and financing that as a company?

Like lets get real here... cars not something you should be able to return on a whim, that's a terrifying business liability

[D Griff]

Can you imagine a 5/10% return rate on cars and financing that as a company?

Like lets get real here... cars not something you should be able to return on a whim, that's a terrifying business liability

Tesla does the same thing? Most people don't care about cars and will get a newish thing to replace their old thing and be super on it. You have to realize we are the "1 percent" of car buyers who actually give a shit. People like us will do research before and know what we're getting, the rest will be "OMG NEW THING" and so I'd wager return rates are <1%.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Can you imagine a 5/10% return rate on cars and financing that as a company?

Like lets get real here... cars not something you should be able to return on a whim, that's a terrifying business liability

Tesla does the same thing? Most people don't care about cars and will get a newish thing to replace their old thing and be super on it. You have to realize we are the "1 percent" of car buyers who actually give a shit. People like us will do research before and know what we're getting, the rest will be "OMG NEW THING" and so I'd wager return rates are <1%.

[max225]

Can you imagine a 5/10% return rate on cars and financing that as a company?

Like lets get real here... cars not something you should be able to return on a whim, that's a terrifying business liability

Tesla does the same thing? Most people don't care about cars and will get a newish thing to replace their old thing and be super on it. You have to realize we are the "1 percent" of car buyers who actually give a shit. People like us will do research before and know what we're getting, the rest will be "OMG NEW THING" and so I'd wager return rates are <1%.

One thing is a new car.... the other is something that someone farted and puked into... It could be the breaker.

That said Carmax still offers that... So i still fail to see how they are better... I also fail to see how Carmax is a thing. I am by their above ATP pricing on used cars. Leeching off the 's then again... like I said earlier that's the ONLY way to make money in car sales. I GOTTA EAT BRO.

Trade in your 2018 JLU for 25k and get a 2017 JKU for 35k more simple and more reliable!

[max225]

One thing is a new car.... the other is something that someone farted and puked into... It could be the breaker.

That said Carmax still offers that... So i still fail to see how they are better... I also fail to see how Carmax is a thing. I am by their above ATP pricing on used cars. Leeching off the 's then again... like I said earlier that's the ONLY way to make money in car sales. I GOTTA EAT BRO.

Trade in your 2018 JLU for 25k and get a 2017 JKU for 35k more simple and more reliable!

You’re looking at Carmax and Vroom wrong.

Their goal is not massive gross. It’s pure volume. That’s it. Low turn time (time for inventory to turn over) and initial perception is key.

So so so so many dealerships get this wrong (including my own). They take way too long to get the vehicle to the lot, and when it does finally get there, it’s not reconditioned to the right standards. So then when it does hit the lot, you’ve gotta try to price it higher to try and recoup all the money you’ve just lost due to poor flow management, but the customer knows the car isn’t worth it because it’s still showing visible damage or smells like vom or whatever.

I’d bet Vroom made an error on my Jeep. And they’re selling the WK2 Trailcock just below market value. Not all deals are winners, not all deals are losers. It’s all about averages.

I get how the model works, there needs to be overhead for any Business to stay afloat. My point is traditional have gotten so bad that places like Vroom/Carmax popped up and are stealing their business because they can't realize how much of a fuckery they create for the customer.

An OEM needs to start being like Tesla and control the flow of new and used vehicles.... Vroom is a middle man just like Carmax, They have no reason to exist, its purely due to OEM incompetence.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

You’re looking at Carmax and Vroom wrong.

Their goal is not massive gross. It’s pure volume. That’s it. Low turn time (time for inventory to turn over) and initial perception is key.

So so so so many dealerships get this wrong (including my own). They take way too long to get the vehicle to the lot, and when it does finally get there, it’s not reconditioned to the right standards. So then when it does hit the lot, you’ve gotta try to price it higher to try and recoup all the money you’ve just lost due to poor flow management, but the customer knows the car isn’t worth it because it’s still showing visible damage or smells like vom or whatever.

I’d bet Vroom made an error on my Jeep. And they’re selling the WK2 Trailcock just below market value. Not all deals are winners, not all deals are losers. It’s all about averages.

I get how the model works, there needs to be overhead for any Business to stay afloat. My point is traditional have gotten so bad that places like Vroom/Carmax popped up and are stealing their business because they can't realize how much of a fuckery they create for the customer.

An OEM needs to start being like Tesla and control the flow of new and used vehicles.... Vroom is a middle man just like Carmax, They have no reason to exist, its purely due to OEM incompetence.

It's not incompetence...it's against the LAW. Tesla has skirted around it magically, but still can't sell everywhere.

The laws are outdated. Start yelling at .gov rather than OEMs. They have enough problems they can't handle.

[max225]

I get how the model works, there needs to be overhead for any Business to stay afloat. My point is traditional have gotten so bad that places like Vroom/Carmax popped up and are stealing their business because they can't realize how much of a fuckery they create for the customer.

An OEM needs to start being like Tesla and control the flow of new and used vehicles.... Vroom is a middle man just like Carmax, They have no reason to exist, its purely due to OEM incompetence.

It's not incompetence...it's against the LAW. Tesla has skirted around it magically, but still can't sell everywhere.

The laws are outdated. Start yelling at .gov rather than OEMs. They have enough problems they can't handle.

What prevents a GM dealer from not being a crooked shit and creating a "no haggle price" and sell used cars with a warranty while not trying to fuck every customer on 10% interest and 90 months stretch pay and giving them 20% of what their trade is worth?

It is quite simple to create a business model that works for everyone... Carmax proved it... there is nothing a network can't do that carmax does... if anything since they have OEM connection they are far better off, as customers TRADE CARS directly into them. 1/100 are good, the rest are just

BTW two of the where I was shopping for the mini adoped the "vroom" approach, no haggle pricing and it was good. So others are catching on... a majority isn't ...

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It's not incompetence...it's against the LAW. Tesla has skirted around it magically, but still can't sell everywhere.

The laws are outdated. Start yelling at .gov rather than OEMs. They have enough problems they can't handle.

What prevents a GM dealer from not being a crooked shit and creating a "no haggle price" and sell used cars with a warranty while not trying to fuck every customer on 10% interest and 90 months stretch pay and giving them 20% of what their trade is worth?

It is quite simple to create a business model that works for everyone... Carmax proved it... there is nothing a network can't do that carmax does... if anything since they have OEM connection they are far better off, as customers TRADE CARS directly into them. 1/100 are good, the rest are just

BTW two of the where I was shopping for the mini adoped the "vroom" approach, no haggle pricing and it was good. So others are catching on... a majority isn't ...

Fixed pricing only works if the entire industry adopts it. Many OEMs have attempted it in the past, but it usually results in failure because other OEM dealers still offer "discounts" and customers are smart and shop around. There are dealer groups that on their own adopt fixed pricing, and it's usually because there's other dealer groups in their region doing the same. Customers shop

Remember a few years ago when JCPenny announced they would stop sales and instead everything would always be "on sale"? Sales and revenue actually DECREASED because it's human nature to hunt for deals.

Carmax works because used cars aren't quite as commodity as new cars for the most part. A new blue Golf R is a new blue Golf R anywhere you buy it. But a used one could be different years, miles, condition, etc, etc. Customers don't want to buy a POS and Carmax has built a reputation of quality used vehicles at a fair no haggle price with no pressure. People are obviously willing to pay a premium for that convenience. To compete, other dealers undercut Carmax, but that caters to customers who are ok with some uncertainty. But if you pit a CPO vehicle price against a similar vehicle at Carmax, it's probably really similar.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It's not incompetence...it's against the LAW. Tesla has skirted around it magically, but still can't sell everywhere.

The laws are outdated. Start yelling at .gov rather than OEMs. They have enough problems they can't handle.

This, plus the OEMs can not afford the cost of running the network of brick and mortar dealerships.

That’s why they’re all franchised.

[D Griff]

I mean, even outside of cars, very few manufacturers sell anything direct to end users.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I mean, even outside of cars, very few manufacturers sell anything direct to end users.

Inventory is expensive. Brick and mortar is expensive. Distribution is expensive.

Supply chains are complex.

[max225]

Come on guys this isn’t news... oems tried this several times scion and Saturn come to mind. Prices and practices are still set by oems. The vast majority of shitty dealers are on the lower end and domestic. There could be corporate governance into who to deal with and how.

This is not an impossible situation, hell Tesla did the impossible made to order sitch and is still kicking. The effort in having a experience is 1/10th if that

[max225]

I mean, even outside of cars, very few manufacturers sell anything direct to end users.

Inventory is expensive. Brick and mortar is expensive. Distribution is expensive.

Supply chains are complex.

So vroom doesn’t have distribution or inventory ? Their distribution is far worse with the at home delivery concept. That creates immense overhead

[dubshow]

I mean, even outside of cars, very few manufacturers sell anything direct to end users.

but to have it codified by law...

[CorvetteWaxer]

They’ve got some major money in play.

Operations are spread between NYC, Detroit, and Texas.

I'm at whit's end here. Applying.

Would be great to be at the cutting edge of something for a change.

Starting to think you only take jobs at manufacturers to get a killer lease deal.

tactic!

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I'm at whit's end here. Applying.

Would be great to be at the cutting edge of something for a change.

Starting to think you only take jobs at manufacturers to get a killer lease deal.

tactic!

If I leave my current company, I'll lose my because the lease is through the company.

[CaleDeRoo]

Starting to think you only take jobs at manufacturers to get a killer lease deal.

tactic!

If I leave my current company, I'll lose my because the lease is through the company.

Can't you sell the lease? Turn this one in, and order one with things you skipped this time that you'd like to have then sell it to your neighbor after putting as many miles on it as possible and buy it back from him? Idk?

[dubshow]

I get how the model works, there needs to be overhead for any Business to stay afloat. My point is traditional have gotten so bad that places like Vroom/Carmax popped up and are stealing their business because they can't realize how much of a fuckery they create for the customer.

An OEM needs to start being like Tesla and control the flow of new and used vehicles.... Vroom is a middle man just like Carmax, They have no reason to exist, its purely due to OEM incompetence.

It's not incompetence...it's against the LAW. Tesla has skirted around it magically, but still can't sell everywhere.

The laws are outdated. Start yelling at .gov rather than OEMs. They have enough problems they can't handle.

"I want the .gov to regulate and handle healthcare"

"The .gov has royally fucked up the free market system by regulating the auto industry"

[dubshow]

Starting to think you only take jobs at manufacturers to get a killer lease deal.

tactic!

If I leave my current company, I'll lose my because the lease is through the company.

thats how they get ya! The ole ball and chain

[ChrisoftheNorth]

If I leave my current company, I'll lose my because the lease is through the company.

Can't you sell the lease? Turn this one in, and order one with things you skipped this time that you'd like to have then sell it to your neighbor after putting as many miles on it as possible and buy it back from him? Idk?

I love my truck, I honestly wouldn't add anything to it. Screen is fine, speakers are fine, lights are fine.

I can sell the lease once it hits 8k miles, but more miles just further decrease the price. Trying to figure out if I can just sell it to myself after putting a ton of miles on it.