But isn’t that altitude dependent ? So 85 acts like 87 at higher altitudes ?
Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Is it?
Might make sense.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
I know...and it never made sense to me. But elevation would make sense...just not sure how the works.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Huckleberry
- Senior Chief Patty Officer
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
- Drives: 2004 GTO
- Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.
Yes, the higher altitude allows for a lower octane number.
- max225
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 42434
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
- Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/h ... 8/4345737/
Basically you're a completely getting no power in those states.... no air and no fuelOctane is the ability of a fuel to resist knock, and high-compression engines tend to knock more. The obverse of that is that lower-compression engines can run on lower-octane gas. Air is thinner the higher above sea level you go. Less air going into the cylinders means less pressure at top dead center when things go bang. It's a lot like lowering the compression ratio in the engine, reducing the need for high octane. Cars will run just fine on lower-octane fuel when they're well above sea level--and all of those states are. Hopefully, by the time you get back down to denser air, you've burned off most of the low-octane stuff, and can refill the tank with higher-grade fuel.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Oh, wow.max225 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:37 amhttps://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/h ... 8/4345737/
Basically you're a completely getting no power in those states.... no air and no fuelOctane is the ability of a fuel to resist knock, and high-compression engines tend to knock more. The obverse of that is that lower-compression engines can run on lower-octane gas. Air is thinner the higher above sea level you go. Less air going into the cylinders means less pressure at top dead center when things go bang. It's a lot like lowering the compression ratio in the engine, reducing the need for high octane. Cars will run just fine on lower-octane fuel when they're well above sea level--and all of those states are. Hopefully, by the time you get back down to denser air, you've burned off most of the low-octane stuff, and can refill the tank with higher-grade fuel.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Huckleberry
- Senior Chief Patty Officer
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
- Drives: 2004 GTO
- Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.
It is why mass airflow sensors became so prevalent in this country. The sensor could adjust spark and fuel tables on the fly with changes in altitude, whereas a speed density car would run fine at the elevation it was tuned in, but would not run as well outside of that threshold.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
I had no idea. This makes so much sense.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:26 pm It is why mass airflow sensors became so prevalent in this country. The sensor could adjust spark and fuel tables on the fly with changes in altitude, whereas a speed density car would run fine at the elevation it was tuned in, but would not run as well outside of that threshold.
I talked to a tuner here who tuned everything in speed density and didn't "understand the point of the MAF".
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Huckleberry
- Senior Chief Patty Officer
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
- Drives: 2004 GTO
- Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.
Yeah, a lot of tuners will tune in speed density, which relies solely on the MAP sensor. It isn't a bad way to go about doing things since people generally tend to stick around in the area where they received the tune for the duration of their ownership. However, just like everything else in this hobby, most of the arguments against MAFs have origins from decades ago. People used to pop the screens out of their MAFs left and right thinking that was going to give them some boost in power, and then complained that the car was running like shit because, in reality, the screen was there to straighten the airflow out so the sensor could get an accurate reading.Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:28 pmI had no idea. This makes so much sense.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:26 pm It is why mass airflow sensors became so prevalent in this country. The sensor could adjust spark and fuel tables on the fly with changes in altitude, whereas a speed density car would run fine at the elevation it was tuned in, but would not run as well outside of that threshold.
I talked to a tuner here who tuned everything in speed density and didn't "understand the point of the MAF".
I'm willing to bet that tuner felt the MAF was nothing more than a restriction in the intake tract that was robbing horsepower.
- Apex
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 29815
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:36 pm
- Drives: Abominable
- Location: NJ
Probably one of the guys who was all that Dplac was running cats too.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:48 pmYeah, a lot of tuners will tune in speed density, which relies solely on the MAP sensor. It isn't a bad way to go about doing things since people generally tend to stick around in the area where they received the tune for the duration of their ownership. However, just like everything else in this hobby, most of the arguments against MAFs have origins from decades ago. People used to pop the screens out of their MAFs left and right thinking that was going to give them some boost in power, and then complained that the car was running like shit because, in reality, the screen was there to straighten the airflow out so the sensor could get an accurate reading.
I'm willing to bet that tuner felt the MAF was nothing more than a restriction in the intake tract that was robbing horsepower.
- Johnny_P
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 40489
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:52 am
- Drives: Blue short bus
- Location: Philly
Everything was so much better when we had 6.0L carb'd motors making 250 HP.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:48 pmYeah, a lot of tuners will tune in speed density, which relies solely on the MAP sensor. It isn't a bad way to go about doing things since people generally tend to stick around in the area where they received the tune for the duration of their ownership. However, just like everything else in this hobby, most of the arguments against MAFs have origins from decades ago. People used to pop the screens out of their MAFs left and right thinking that was going to give them some boost in power, and then complained that the car was running like shit because, in reality, the screen was there to straighten the airflow out so the sensor could get an accurate reading.
I'm willing to bet that tuner felt the MAF was nothing more than a restriction in the intake tract that was robbing horsepower.
- Huckleberry
- Senior Chief Patty Officer
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
- Drives: 2004 GTO
- Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.
lulz
Someone should photoshop a Holley 4 barrel on top of that scooter.
- Huckleberry
- Senior Chief Patty Officer
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
- Drives: 2004 GTO
- Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.
People see a screen and it's all Z0MG! teh RESTRICKSHUNZ![user not found] wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:16 pmYep. The VW 2.0T TSI has an air-straightener in the intake tract specifically for this - reduces turbulence around the MAF.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:48 pm
Yeah, a lot of tuners will tune in speed density, which relies solely on the MAP sensor. It isn't a bad way to go about doing things since people generally tend to stick around in the area where they received the tune for the duration of their ownership. However, just like everything else in this hobby, most of the arguments against MAFs have origins from decades ago. People used to pop the screens out of their MAFs left and right thinking that was going to give them some boost in power, and then complained that the car was running like shit because, in reality, the screen was there to straighten the airflow out so the sensor could get an accurate reading.
I'm willing to bet that tuner felt the MAF was nothing more than a restriction in the intake tract that was robbing horsepower.
Lots of people had issues early on by jury-rigging up intakes and deleting that screen.
GM has been using a card-style MAF for the past decade. No screen and the intake tubing can be any size diameter due to the MAF no longer having an integrated housing. It's pretty slick.
- Huckleberry
- Senior Chief Patty Officer
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
- Drives: 2004 GTO
- Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.
Cats are another thing. People still act like they are losing gobs of horsepower by running them, even though the things flow about as well as an open pipe nowadays. They're also cheap. Magnaflow universal spun cats can be had for under $100.
Whoa now, buddy. You can't be using the metric system to describe the displacement of those motors. You'll give one of those guys a stroke.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Yea, I had a guy look at me like I was crazy when I told him the car had cats. I guess buying long tube headers with high flow cats is here.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:56 pmCats are another thing. People still act like they are losing gobs of horsepower by running them, even though the things flow about as well as an open pipe nowadays. They're also cheap. Magnaflow universal spun cats can be had for under $100.
Whoa now, buddy. You can't be using the metric system to describe the displacement of those motors. You'll give one of those guys a stroke.
Then the car made 443whp on the dyno....sooooooo
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Apex
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 29815
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:36 pm
- Drives: Abominable
- Location: NJ
Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:59 pmYea, I had a guy look at me like I was crazy when I told him the car had cats. I guess buying long tube headers with high flow cats is here.Huckleberry wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:56 pm
Cats are another thing. People still act like they are losing gobs of horsepower by running them, even though the things flow about as well as an open pipe nowadays. They're also cheap. Magnaflow universal spun cats can be had for under $100.
Whoa now, buddy. You can't be using the metric system to describe the displacement of those motors. You'll give one of those guys a stroke.
Then the car made 443whp on the dyno....sooooooo
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Pretty much.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
plz take my photo down. Images in my likeness are copyrighted.
- Apex
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 29815
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:36 pm
- Drives: Abominable
- Location: NJ
[user not found] wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:06 pmI still love the ZR2.
It's badass looking.
But, a lifted Gladiator... is pretty
Gladiators need a little altitude to look right, IMO.
- CorvetteWaxer
- Senior Master Sirloin
- Posts: 8381
- Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 pm
- Drives: 1986 Hyundai Excel, 351C swap
- Location: Where it happens every year
I agree.
We went and drove a Ram 2500 Laramie yesterday and saw a pair of Gladiators at the dealer. I was not a fan and the wife said it was an abortion.
I'd keep my ZR2 over the Gladiator every day of the week other than for the interior.
- Johnny_P
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 40489
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:52 am
- Drives: Blue short bus
- Location: Philly
What did you think of the ram?CorvetteWaxer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:50 pmI agree.
We went and drove a Ram 2500 Laramie yesterday and saw a pair of Gladiators at the dealer. I was not a fan and the wife said it was an abortion.
I'd keep my ZR2 over the Gladiator every day of the week other than for the interior.
I think the gladiator proportions are off but I have only seen poor people editions I haven’t seen any rubicons yet.
- Johnny_P
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 40489
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:52 am
- Drives: Blue short bus
- Location: Philly
Anyone know how easily a JL door will ding/dent? The flat metal throws me off all the time with the way light hits it I think they’re dented but they’re not. Just wondering. For a friend.