Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep

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Detroit wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:12 pm
Apex wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:10 pm

85? :disgust: :lol:
It's shocking how much 85 there is out there in the 4 corners region. Gotta watch the pump.
But isn’t that altitude dependent ? So 85 acts like 87 at higher altitudes ?
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:11 am
Detroit wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:12 pm
It's shocking how much 85 there is out there in the 4 corners region. Gotta watch the pump.
But isn’t that altitude dependent ? So 85 acts like 87 at higher altitudes ?
Is it? :iono:

Might make sense.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:36 am
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:11 am

But isn’t that altitude dependent ? So 85 acts like 87 at higher altitudes ?
Is it? :iono:

Might make sense.
Colorado pretty much has 85 everywhere ... some of arizona as well.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:00 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:36 am
Is it? :iono:

Might make sense.
Colorado pretty much has 85 everywhere ... some of arizona as well.
I know...and it never made sense to me. But elevation would make sense...just not sure how the :science: works.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:11 am
Detroit wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:12 pm
It's shocking how much 85 there is out there in the 4 corners region. Gotta watch the pump.
But isn’t that altitude dependent ? So 85 acts like 87 at higher altitudes ?
Yes, the higher altitude allows for a lower octane number.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:02 am
max225 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:00 am

Colorado pretty much has 85 everywhere ... some of arizona as well.
I know...and it never made sense to me. But elevation would make sense...just not sure how the :science: works.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/h ... 8/4345737/
:themoreyouknow:
Octane is the ability of a fuel to resist knock, and high-compression engines tend to knock more. The obverse of that is that lower-compression engines can run on lower-octane gas. Air is thinner the higher above sea level you go. Less air going into the cylinders means less pressure at top dead center when things go bang. It's a lot like lowering the compression ratio in the engine, reducing the need for high octane. Cars will run just fine on lower-octane fuel when they're well above sea level--and all of those states are. Hopefully, by the time you get back down to denser air, you've burned off most of the low-octane stuff, and can refill the tank with higher-grade fuel.
Basically you're a completely getting no power in those states.... no air and no fuel :lolgasm:
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max225 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:37 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:02 am
I know...and it never made sense to me. But elevation would make sense...just not sure how the :science: works.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/h ... 8/4345737/
:themoreyouknow:
Octane is the ability of a fuel to resist knock, and high-compression engines tend to knock more. The obverse of that is that lower-compression engines can run on lower-octane gas. Air is thinner the higher above sea level you go. Less air going into the cylinders means less pressure at top dead center when things go bang. It's a lot like lowering the compression ratio in the engine, reducing the need for high octane. Cars will run just fine on lower-octane fuel when they're well above sea level--and all of those states are. Hopefully, by the time you get back down to denser air, you've burned off most of the low-octane stuff, and can refill the tank with higher-grade fuel.
Basically you're a completely getting no power in those states.... no air and no fuel :lolgasm:
Oh, wow. :disgust:

:themoreyouknow:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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It is why mass airflow sensors became so prevalent in this country. The sensor could adjust spark and fuel tables on the fly with changes in altitude, whereas a speed density car would run fine at the elevation it was tuned in, but would not run as well outside of that threshold.
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:26 pm It is why mass airflow sensors became so prevalent in this country. The sensor could adjust spark and fuel tables on the fly with changes in altitude, whereas a speed density car would run fine at the elevation it was tuned in, but would not run as well outside of that threshold.
I had no idea. This makes so much sense.

I talked to a tuner here who tuned everything in speed density and didn't "understand the point of the MAF". :lolol:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:28 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:26 pm It is why mass airflow sensors became so prevalent in this country. The sensor could adjust spark and fuel tables on the fly with changes in altitude, whereas a speed density car would run fine at the elevation it was tuned in, but would not run as well outside of that threshold.
I had no idea. This makes so much sense.

I talked to a tuner here who tuned everything in speed density and didn't "understand the point of the MAF". :lolol:
Yeah, a lot of tuners will tune in speed density, which relies solely on the MAP sensor. It isn't a bad way to go about doing things since people generally tend to stick around in the area where they received the tune for the duration of their ownership. However, just like everything else in this hobby, most of the arguments against MAFs have origins from decades ago. People used to pop the screens out of their MAFs left and right thinking that was going to give them some boost in power, and then complained that the car was running like shit because, in reality, the screen was there to straighten the airflow out so the sensor could get an accurate reading.

I'm willing to bet that tuner felt the MAF was nothing more than a restriction in the intake tract that was robbing horsepower. :lol:
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:48 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:28 pm
I had no idea. This makes so much sense.

I talked to a tuner here who tuned everything in speed density and didn't "understand the point of the MAF". :lolol:
Yeah, a lot of tuners will tune in speed density, which relies solely on the MAP sensor. It isn't a bad way to go about doing things since people generally tend to stick around in the area where they received the tune for the duration of their ownership. However, just like everything else in this hobby, most of the arguments against MAFs have origins from decades ago. People used to pop the screens out of their MAFs left and right thinking that was going to give them some boost in power, and then complained that the car was running like shit because, in reality, the screen was there to straighten the airflow out so the sensor could get an accurate reading.

I'm willing to bet that tuner felt the MAF was nothing more than a restriction in the intake tract that was robbing horsepower. :lol:
Probably one of the guys who was all :wtf: that Dplac was running cats too.
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:48 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:28 pm
I had no idea. This makes so much sense.

I talked to a tuner here who tuned everything in speed density and didn't "understand the point of the MAF". :lolol:
Yeah, a lot of tuners will tune in speed density, which relies solely on the MAP sensor. It isn't a bad way to go about doing things since people generally tend to stick around in the area where they received the tune for the duration of their ownership. However, just like everything else in this hobby, most of the arguments against MAFs have origins from decades ago. People used to pop the screens out of their MAFs left and right thinking that was going to give them some boost in power, and then complained that the car was running like shit because, in reality, the screen was there to straighten the airflow out so the sensor could get an accurate reading.

I'm willing to bet that tuner felt the MAF was nothing more than a restriction in the intake tract that was robbing horsepower. :lol:
Everything was so much better when we had 6.0L carb'd motors making 250 HP.
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[user not found] wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:17 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Everything was so much better when we had 6.0L carb'd motors making 250 HP.
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[user not found] wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:16 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:48 pm

Yeah, a lot of tuners will tune in speed density, which relies solely on the MAP sensor. It isn't a bad way to go about doing things since people generally tend to stick around in the area where they received the tune for the duration of their ownership. However, just like everything else in this hobby, most of the arguments against MAFs have origins from decades ago. People used to pop the screens out of their MAFs left and right thinking that was going to give them some boost in power, and then complained that the car was running like shit because, in reality, the screen was there to straighten the airflow out so the sensor could get an accurate reading.

I'm willing to bet that tuner felt the MAF was nothing more than a restriction in the intake tract that was robbing horsepower. :lol:
Yep. The VW 2.0T TSI has an air-straightener in the intake tract specifically for this - reduces turbulence around the MAF.

Lots of people had issues early on by jury-rigging up intakes and deleting that screen. :derp:
People see a screen and it's all Z0MG! teh RESTRICKSHUNZ!

GM has been using a card-style MAF for the past decade. No screen and the intake tubing can be any size diameter due to the MAF no longer having an integrated housing. It's pretty slick.
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Apex wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:04 pm Probably one of the guys who was all :wtf: that Dplac was running cats too.
Cats are another thing. People still act like they are losing gobs of horsepower by running them, even though the things flow about as well as an open pipe nowadays. They're also cheap. Magnaflow universal spun cats can be had for under $100.
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:09 pm Everything was so much better when we had 6.0L carb'd motors making 250 HP.
Whoa now, buddy. You can't be using the metric system to describe the displacement of those motors. You'll give one of those guys a stroke. :lol:
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:56 pm
Apex wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:04 pm Probably one of the guys who was all :wtf: that Dplac was running cats too.
Cats are another thing. People still act like they are losing gobs of horsepower by running them, even though the things flow about as well as an open pipe nowadays. They're also cheap. Magnaflow universal spun cats can be had for under $100.
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:09 pm Everything was so much better when we had 6.0L carb'd motors making 250 HP.
Whoa now, buddy. You can't be using the metric system to describe the displacement of those motors. You'll give one of those guys a stroke. :lol:
Yea, I had a guy look at me like I was crazy when I told him the car had cats. I guess buying long tube headers with high flow cats is :fullretard: here.

Then the car made 443whp on the dyno....sooooooo
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:59 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:56 pm

Cats are another thing. People still act like they are losing gobs of horsepower by running them, even though the things flow about as well as an open pipe nowadays. They're also cheap. Magnaflow universal spun cats can be had for under $100.


Whoa now, buddy. You can't be using the metric system to describe the displacement of those motors. You'll give one of those guys a stroke. :lol:
Yea, I had a guy look at me like I was crazy when I told him the car had cats. I guess buying long tube headers with high flow cats is :fullretard: here.

Then the car made 443whp on the dyno....sooooooo
:micdrop:
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Apex wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:01 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:59 pm
Yea, I had a guy look at me like I was crazy when I told him the car had cats. I guess buying long tube headers with high flow cats is :fullretard: here.

Then the car made 443whp on the dyno....sooooooo
:micdrop:
Pretty much.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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[user not found] wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:17 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Everything was so much better when we had 6.0L carb'd motors making 250 HP.
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dubshow wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:36 pm
[user not found] wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:17 pm

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Saw my first Gladiator yesterday... honestly, I think the ZR2 looks a lot better.

I would just get a regular JL/JLU :doe:
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[user not found] wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:06 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:51 pm Saw my first Gladiator yesterday... honestly, I think the ZR2 looks a lot better.

I would just get a regular JL/JLU :doe:
I still love the ZR2.

It's badass looking.

But, a lifted Gladiator... is pretty :tits:

:jimp:

Gladiators need a little altitude to look right, IMO.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:51 pm Saw my first Gladiator yesterday... honestly, I think the ZR2 looks a lot better.

I would just get a regular JL/JLU :doe:
I agree.

We went and drove a Ram 2500 Laramie yesterday and saw a pair of Gladiators at the dealer. I was not a fan and the wife said it was an abortion. :lol:

I'd keep my ZR2 over the Gladiator every day of the week other than for the interior.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:50 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:51 pm Saw my first Gladiator yesterday... honestly, I think the ZR2 looks a lot better.

I would just get a regular JL/JLU :doe:
I agree.

We went and drove a Ram 2500 Laramie yesterday and saw a pair of Gladiators at the dealer. I was not a fan and the wife said it was an abortion. :lol:

I'd keep my ZR2 over the Gladiator every day of the week other than for the interior.
What did you think of the ram?

I think the gladiator proportions are off but I have only seen poor people editions I haven’t seen any rubicons yet.
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Anyone know how easily a JL door will ding/dent? The flat metal throws me off all the time with the way light hits it I think they’re dented but they’re not. Just wondering. For a friend.
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