Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep

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Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:23 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:16 pm

https://www.southcountychryslerdodgejee ... hor-year-1
A little bit of everything, saharas (35), sports (20), rubis (2)etc. Only 2 :manuel: 's

Given the blow out deals on the 2018JKs and then the pent up demand for the 2018JLs it created the perfect :dillerman: "we can move 100 units a month" type scenario with the sales guys, which very likely made them think that type of volume was sustainable, which it obviously wasn't... JL still sells better than the JK, but with the average one being 7500-8000 more expensive + 4.2% interest rate etc, payment shoppers are squeezed... :derp: life

Sahara really seems like a terrible trimlevel to buy, you get to pay almost as much as a rubi (within $1K) but you will likely get murdered on resale vs sport s which is like 5-10k cheaper. depending on how much shit you throw at it.
Sahara gets a nicer interior than the Sport, and is more road friendly than a Rubicon. It's what most people buying a Rubicon should buy, but you're absolutely right that the resale makes it a super tough sell.

Quick search indicates that pretty much all their 2018's have the 2.0T. Interesting.
I still really don't understand why FCA decided to throw that motor into the JL, I suppose for ficticious MPG #s, there is no way it'll show any sort of improvement over the 3.6 in the real world, especially since it runs better on premium but regular is "ok". The 3.6 is a great motor.
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:25 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:23 pm
Sahara gets a nicer interior than the Sport, and is more road friendly than a Rubicon. It's what most people buying a Rubicon should buy, but you're absolutely right that the resale makes it a super tough sell.

Quick search indicates that pretty much all their 2018's have the 2.0T. Interesting.
I still really don't understand why FCA decided to throw that motor into the JL, I suppose for ficticious MPG #s, there is no way it'll show any sort of improvement over the 3.6 in the real world, especially since it runs better on premium but regular is "ok". The 3.6 is a great motor.
It helps big time on paper with the .gov regs. Problem is, it's a $2k upgrade (plus $2k for the auto trans if you wanted :manuel: ) for a mild performance increase and probably a minimal real world FE increase. Not to mention the added complexity and concern with future repairs.

The 3.6 has been around for a while and proven itself to be a great engine. When paired with the 8-speed, it's really a fantastic powertrain. I personally have no interest in a 2.0 Jeep.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:24 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:21 pm

Adam was just recently promoted to General Sales Manager there, so based on that you should be able to get a fat discount, if you ever get a call back.

I just hope his lack of correspondence doesn't rub off on everyone else in sales there.
He dodged my emails last year around the time you were shopping. Probably won't for much longer. It will be very hard for them to lap the sales from LY. Btw you interested in a gladiator at all? Would be a nice upgrade over the ZR2.
Nah. No Gladiator here, at least until they are JL cheap. Other than the interior it doesn't really offer anything over the ZR2 and according to many of the reviews that aren't just in awe of a Jeep truck, many comparisons say the ZR2 (Non-Bison) is more capable of a truck.

I am considering a Ford F450 though. :evil:
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:28 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:24 pm

He dodged my emails last year around the time you were shopping. Probably won't for much longer. It will be very hard for them to lap the sales from LY. Btw you interested in a gladiator at all? Would be a nice upgrade over the ZR2.
Nah. No Gladiator here, at least until they are JL cheap. Other than the interior it doesn't really offer anything over the ZR2 and according to many of the reviews that aren't just in awe of a Jeep truck, many comparisons say the ZR2 (Non-Bison) is more capable of a truck.

I am considering a Ford F450 though. :evil:
I am REALLY struggling right now with what to do when the ZR2 lease is up. I'm super tempted to buy the ZR2 out because it really is a fantastic truck. Gladiators are stupid money (they're not on employee pricing yet), and while the vehicle overall is great and capability is solid, it's just not $20k+ better than my ZR2 ($32k buy-out on the ZR2).

I have zero complaints with the ZR2 other than the transmission laziness when towing. Small use case, so whatever. It's a BEAST off-road, and the shorter wheelbase gives it an edge over the Gladiator.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:31 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:28 pm

Nah. No Gladiator here, at least until they are JL cheap. Other than the interior it doesn't really offer anything over the ZR2 and according to many of the reviews that aren't just in awe of a Jeep truck, many comparisons say the ZR2 (Non-Bison) is more capable of a truck.

I am considering a Ford F450 though. :evil:
I am REALLY struggling right now with what to do when the ZR2 lease is up. I'm super tempted to buy the ZR2 out because it really is a fantastic truck. Gladiators are stupid money (they're not on employee pricing yet), and while the vehicle overall is great and capability is solid, it's just not $20k+ better than my ZR2 ($32k buy-out on the ZR2).

I have zero complaints with the ZR2 other than the transmission laziness when towing. Small use case, so whatever. It's a BEAST off-road, and the shorter wheelbase gives it an edge over the Gladiator.
What's the buy out on the ZR2?

A loaded JT is 60k... so I am assuming it is double what a used ZR2 costs, apples to oranges of course... but money is money. 30k is more than the average american family is able to save in 2 years. Seems silly to blow on a toy since you already have a toy that is similar.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:28 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:24 pm

He dodged my emails last year around the time you were shopping. Probably won't for much longer. It will be very hard for them to lap the sales from LY. Btw you interested in a gladiator at all? Would be a nice upgrade over the ZR2.
Nah. No Gladiator here, at least until they are JL cheap. Other than the interior it doesn't really offer anything over the ZR2 and according to many of the reviews that aren't just in awe of a Jeep truck, many comparisons say the ZR2 (Non-Bison) is more capable of a truck.

I am considering a Ford F450 though. :evil:
Will that fit in your driveway ? :lol:
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:35 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:28 pm

Nah. No Gladiator here, at least until they are JL cheap. Other than the interior it doesn't really offer anything over the ZR2 and according to many of the reviews that aren't just in awe of a Jeep truck, many comparisons say the ZR2 (Non-Bison) is more capable of a truck.

I am considering a Ford F450 though. :evil:
Will that fit in your driveway ? :lol:
Alone? Yes. With the JL? Probably not. Definitely couldn't squeeze the 911 around it out ot the garage with a F450 in the driveway though, I barely make the L turn out of the garage with the ZR2 in the driveway.
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:35 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:31 pm
I am REALLY struggling right now with what to do when the ZR2 lease is up. I'm super tempted to buy the ZR2 out because it really is a fantastic truck. Gladiators are stupid money (they're not on employee pricing yet), and while the vehicle overall is great and capability is solid, it's just not $20k+ better than my ZR2 ($32k buy-out on the ZR2).

I have zero complaints with the ZR2 other than the transmission laziness when towing. Small use case, so whatever. It's a BEAST off-road, and the shorter wheelbase gives it an edge over the Gladiator.
What's the buy out on the ZR2?

A loaded JT is 60k... so I am assuming it is double what a used ZR2 costs, apples to oranges of course... but money is money. 30k is more than the average american family is able to save in 2 years. Seems silly to blow on a toy since you already have a toy that is similar.
$32k on ZR2...Gladiator Rubicon equipped sparingly would be $44k on employee pricing...if that even happens by September.

So $12k spread plus 6% sales tax. That's a lot for a toy that mostly does the same thing.
Last edited by ChrisoftheNorth on Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:50 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:35 pm

Will that fit in your driveway ? :lol:
Alone? Yes. With the JL? Probably not. Definitely couldn't squeeze the 911 around it out ot the garage with a F450 in the driveway though, I barely make the L turn out of the garage with the ZR2 in the driveway.
Are you buying another house to tow?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:28 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:24 pm

He dodged my emails last year around the time you were shopping. Probably won't for much longer. It will be very hard for them to lap the sales from LY. Btw you interested in a gladiator at all? Would be a nice upgrade over the ZR2.
Nah. No Gladiator here, at least until they are JL cheap. Other than the interior it doesn't really offer anything over the ZR2 and according to many of the reviews that aren't just in awe of a Jeep truck, many comparisons say the ZR2 (Non-Bison) is more capable of a truck.

I am considering a Ford F450 though. :evil:
What are you going to do with it?
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:35 pm

What's the buy out on the ZR2?

A loaded JT is 60k... so I am assuming it is double what a used ZR2 costs, apples to oranges of course... but money is money. 30k is more than the average american family is able to save in 2 years. Seems silly to blow on a toy since you already have a toy that is similar.
$32k on ZR2...Gladiator Rubicon equipped sparingly would be $43k on employee pricing...if that even happens by September.

So $11k spread plus 6% sales tax. That's a lot for a toy that mostly does the same thing.
43k ? What's the MSRP on that JT? Seems like it's missing things like LEDs, leather, stereo, etc that is standard on the ZR2.
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:59 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 pm
$32k on ZR2...Gladiator Rubicon equipped sparingly would be $43k on employee pricing...if that even happens by September.

So $11k spread plus 6% sales tax. That's a lot for a toy that mostly does the same thing.
43k ? What's the MSRP on that JT? Seems like it's missing things like LEDs, leather, stereo, etc that is standard on the ZR2.
44k (I missed destination and rounding)...but yea it wouldn't be comparably equipped. No LED, 7" screen, cloth seats. Only options are auto, hard top, cold weather, and proximity entry (those are my only "must haves"). $48.5k MSRP

To equip a JT like a ZR2, you need to add leather, and 8.4" screen, or an additional $3k. MSRP pushing $52k. All ZR2's are loaded (only option is Bose and Nav), and a brand new one is $42k...$10k less. You have to REALLY love the Jeep or not care about leather, 8" screen, etc (which I don't really) to chose a Gladiator Rubicon over a ZR2. Even off-road equipment is comparable, only thing the Jeep has is larger tires and sway bar disconnect...but it's nearly a foot longer, which makes maneuvering tough.

My truck is already depreciated and has all options. The buy-out is probably in-line with if I bought a used one, so not a horrible deal like it usually is.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:07 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:59 pm

43k ? What's the MSRP on that JT? Seems like it's missing things like LEDs, leather, stereo, etc that is standard on the ZR2.
44k (I missed destination and rounding)...but yea it wouldn't be comparably equipped. No LED, 7" screen, cloth seats. Only options are auto, hard top, cold weather, and proximity entry (those are my only "must haves"). $48.5k MSRP

To equip a JT like a ZR2, you need to add leather, and 8.4" screen, or an additional $3k. MSRP pushing $52k. All ZR2's are loaded (only option is Bose and Nav), and a brand new one is $42k...$10k less. You have to REALLY love the Jeep or not care about leather, 8" screen, etc (which I don't really) to chose a Gladiator Rubicon over a ZR2. Even off-road equipment is comparable, only thing the Jeep has is larger tires and sway bar disconnect...but it's nearly a foot longer, which makes maneuvering tough.

My truck is already depreciated and has all options. The buy-out is probably in-line with if I bought a used one, so not a horrible deal like it usually is.
Seems like the gap is actually at least 20k.... I wouldn't get a JT in your case.
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:10 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:07 pm
44k (I missed destination and rounding)...but yea it wouldn't be comparably equipped. No LED, 7" screen, cloth seats. Only options are auto, hard top, cold weather, and proximity entry (those are my only "must haves"). $48.5k MSRP

To equip a JT like a ZR2, you need to add leather, and 8.4" screen, or an additional $3k. MSRP pushing $52k. All ZR2's are loaded (only option is Bose and Nav), and a brand new one is $42k...$10k less. You have to REALLY love the Jeep or not care about leather, 8" screen, etc (which I don't really) to chose a Gladiator Rubicon over a ZR2. Even off-road equipment is comparable, only thing the Jeep has is larger tires and sway bar disconnect...but it's nearly a foot longer, which makes maneuvering tough.

My truck is already depreciated and has all options. The buy-out is probably in-line with if I bought a used one, so not a horrible deal like it usually is.
Seems like the gap is actually at least 20k.... I wouldn't get a JT in your case.
I don't care about leather and big screens...I'm kind of old school like that. They're nice to haves, but wouldn't pay more for it...which I'd have to do in a JT. It helps narrow the price gap a bit. Actual cash out of my pocket (not theoretical comparing equals or whatever, what I'd actually buy) is pushing $20k after tax and fees and whatnot. Certainly significant, but there's resale to consider...a not loaded JT Rubicon should hold its value really well.

I also have a bit of an existential issue with giving GM more money. Not only do I not work there anymore, but it feels almost treasonous. Not that it matters THAT much, but it's in the back of my mind. I also work on JL/T...so there's that too.

I've also considered leasing a cheap-ass Ram for a few years until JT prices settle. I'm over being worried about lease miles, but it's probably something I should consider more seriously before pulling the trigger on anything.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:50 pm

Alone? Yes. With the JL? Probably not. Definitely couldn't squeeze the 911 around it out ot the garage with a F450 in the driveway though, I barely make the L turn out of the garage with the ZR2 in the driveway.
Are you buying another house to tow?
Possibly. That's why I'm looking at that truck.
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Desertbreh wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:28 pm

Nah. No Gladiator here, at least until they are JL cheap. Other than the interior it doesn't really offer anything over the ZR2 and according to many of the reviews that aren't just in awe of a Jeep truck, many comparisons say the ZR2 (Non-Bison) is more capable of a truck.

I am considering a Ford F450 though. :evil:
What are you going to do with it?
Tow vehicle.

Contemplating leaving my job when I get back from the islands in two weeks. If I do that we want to get a 5th wheel and travel for awhile.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:17 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:10 pm

Seems like the gap is actually at least 20k.... I wouldn't get a JT in your case.
I don't care about leather and big screens...I'm kind of old school like that. They're nice to haves, but wouldn't pay more for it...which I'd have to do in a JT. It helps narrow the price gap a bit. Actual cash out of my pocket (not theoretical comparing equals or whatever, what I'd actually buy) is pushing $20k after tax and fees and whatnot. Certainly significant, but there's resale to consider...a not loaded JT Rubicon should hold its value really well.

I also have a bit of an existential issue with giving GM more money. Not only do I not work there anymore, but it feels almost treasonous. Not that it matters THAT much, but it's in the back of my mind. I also work on JL/T...so there's that too.

I've also considered leasing a cheap-ass Ram for a few years until JT prices settle. I'm over being worried about lease miles, but it's probably something I should consider more seriously before pulling the trigger on anything.
How would a full size handle the 4x4 duties?
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:24 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 pm

What are you going to do with it?
Tow vehicle.

Contemplating leaving my job when I get back from the islands in two weeks. If I do that we want to get a 5th wheel and travel for awhile.
Outstanding.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:24 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 pm

What are you going to do with it?
Tow vehicle.

Contemplating leaving my job when I get back from the islands in two weeks. If I do that we want to get a 5th wheel and travel for awhile.
:fuckyeah:

That would be awesome to follow along dude.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Johnny_P wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:26 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:17 pm
I don't care about leather and big screens...I'm kind of old school like that. They're nice to haves, but wouldn't pay more for it...which I'd have to do in a JT. It helps narrow the price gap a bit. Actual cash out of my pocket (not theoretical comparing equals or whatever, what I'd actually buy) is pushing $20k after tax and fees and whatnot. Certainly significant, but there's resale to consider...a not loaded JT Rubicon should hold its value really well.

I also have a bit of an existential issue with giving GM more money. Not only do I not work there anymore, but it feels almost treasonous. Not that it matters THAT much, but it's in the back of my mind. I also work on JL/T...so there's that too.

I've also considered leasing a cheap-ass Ram for a few years until JT prices settle. I'm over being worried about lease miles, but it's probably something I should consider more seriously before pulling the trigger on anything.
How would a full size handle the 4x4 duties?
Poorly, it's too big for what I do. I'd give up 4x4 for a few years. Makes me :( but, whatever. I haven't done much wheeling lately because I'm so close on lease mileage anyway.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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CorvetteWaxer wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:24 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 pm

What are you going to do with it?
Tow vehicle.

Contemplating leaving my job when I get back from the islands in two weeks. If I do that we want to get a 5th wheel and travel for awhile.
:fuckyeah:
That would be awesome to follow if you do.
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In 4 real glamper. Detroit’s doesn’t even have a fireplace or mahogany bookshelf.
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Johnny_P wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:28 pm In 4 real glamper. Detroit’s doesn’t even have a fireplace or mahogany bookshelf.
Needs to have tile+hardwood flooring. And at least a 50" flat screen with dolby atmos.
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Johnny_P wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:28 pm In 4 real glamper. Detroit’s doesn’t even have a fireplace or mahogany bookshelf.
Poverty is as poverty does bro. I'll kill myself in that thing in the middle of the woods soon to put me out of my misery.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Johnny_P wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:28 pm In 4 real glamper. Detroit’s doesn’t even have a fireplace or mahogany bookshelf.
This is one of the ones the wife likes: https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/ ... lans/399th

Configured with the garage and no spare sofa's in the back. That way I could load up the Harley and even a "golf cart" or SxS for things to cruise around in if you didn't want to un-hitch.
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