Jeeponomics 101: Eternal tirekicking for the gutless Jeep

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Interesting.

Tuning is super complex, especially with all the computer control crap now. Edelbrock being as large as it is, I assumed (probably wrongly) that their tuning game would be more on than some dude in North Carolina tuning for max power. I'd be more concerned about longevity.

My plan would be this, assuming I keep the truck "forever":

1. Buy supercharger (whichever is better).
2. Take the tune that it comes with that is CARB certified so I can smog it later, and use it to get to the nearest real tuner.
3. Get a real tune done on a dyno and on the street, lots of good tuners here with HPTuners.
4. Keep CARB tune around for when smog time comes up, swap in and out as needed.
5. Buy a license for HPTuners and flash back and forth myself with no need to keep going to the tuner when I need smog checks.

This is a legit thing.

Though, knowing how particular you are, proceed with caution. Street tuning a vehicle is immensely difficult, and finding a tuner who's capable of it is tough. There's still minor issues I don't like with the tune on my C5, and while it drives perfectly fine, I've had multiple tuners throw up their hands as "the best it can be" when I know that's not true. I bought HP Tuners and have been working to tune the car myself because street day to day driving varies so much, you really need to constantly log it to identify the tiny issues.

[max225]

I dunno the gladiator for the first 6months or more is around 10k more than it should be. So I would most likely wait.

Also the toughest decision is ram rebel vs gladiator. The ram is a better truck in every measurable way, it’s cheaper both in msrp and currently around 7k cheaper equally equipped before discounts, which are around 10k on top of that. So you can buy a rebel a trailer and a side by side for the same price as a gladiator.

However it doesn’t come with a removable roof, does that truly matter ?

Well I'm in a tough spot personally. My ZR2 lease is up in September...and I need a vehicle to replace it with for various reasons. I want a truck...I don't care if it's

I don't like big trucks...just too big for my daily stuff. I really like the size of the Gladiator, and I do like the fun factor of the roof coming off. It's something I'll legit use as I have the roof off my Corvette all the time. It can go places offroad that the Rebel can't go due to size, and while I'd love to have a side by side, I really don't want something sitting in the garage for 95% of the time not being used. Can't drive it on public roads, so it's really just a big paperweight. Plus I work on the Gladiator, so there's an element of money where your mouth is, etc.

I also want to buy something so I don't have to deal with lease mileage I've not being going places I want to go with the ZR2 due to lease mileage, and that's just . I'm pretty much over at this point, I just want something to hold onto for a long time. I've shown remarkable restraint among the fleet for years, in fact I'd probably keep the ZR2 for a long time if It wasn't a lease.

I get 5% off invoice without trying as an employee. I'm not sure waiting a while would get much better TBH. Maybe a 1-2% lower, but that's what...$4-500? Meh. I'd likely order it so it's exactly what I want, and just drive it forever.

Well, at 5% off invoice when everyone is paying sticker or close to it, is likely the way to go. hookup plus it’s directly the hand that feeds.

All that said, what’s your build bro!? Color ? Options ? Etc

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Plus storing an additional trailer and a side by side, which can't be driven on public roads.

I don't see Dplac daisy-chaining trailers to go off-roading and camping on the same trip either.

SxS goes in the useless bed.

Most don't fit even in a full size bed. SxS's are basically full vehicles at this point.

[max225]

Yeah, but a Ram is yuuuuuuuuge.

I just don't like the size of the fullsizers. They're massive.

Plus storing an additional trailer and a side by side, which can't be driven on public roads.

I don't see Dplac daisy-chaining trailers to go off-roading and camping on the same trip either.

That point was made to show how much cheaper a ram
Rebel is, and to counter the obvious, well a rebel can’t go places gladiator can, which frankly doesn’t matter when you have a side by side. Those things are a more fun than any

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Well I'm in a tough spot personally. My ZR2 lease is up in September...and I need a vehicle to replace it with for various reasons. I want a truck...I don't care if it's

I don't like big trucks...just too big for my daily stuff. I really like the size of the Gladiator, and I do like the fun factor of the roof coming off. It's something I'll legit use as I have the roof off my Corvette all the time. It can go places offroad that the Rebel can't go due to size, and while I'd love to have a side by side, I really don't want something sitting in the garage for 95% of the time not being used. Can't drive it on public roads, so it's really just a big paperweight. Plus I work on the Gladiator, so there's an element of money where your mouth is, etc.

I also want to buy something so I don't have to deal with lease mileage I've not being going places I want to go with the ZR2 due to lease mileage, and that's just . I'm pretty much over at this point, I just want something to hold onto for a long time. I've shown remarkable restraint among the fleet for years, in fact I'd probably keep the ZR2 for a long time if It wasn't a lease.

I get 5% off invoice without trying as an employee. I'm not sure waiting a while would get much better TBH. Maybe a 1-2% lower, but that's what...$4-500? Meh. I'd likely order it so it's exactly what I want, and just drive it forever.

Well, at 5% off invoice when everyone is paying sticker or close to it, is likely the way to go. hookup plus it’s directly the hand that feeds.

All that said, what’s your build bro!? Color ? Options ? Etc

I'm debating a number of things.

Whorage is a given...which will mean waiting a bit, but should line up for September.

I'm stuck between a Sport S with the max tow pack (for 4.10's and beefy axles) and a Rubicon. Biggest things for the Rubicon are stupid things that aren't available on sport like the saddle leather, remote proximity entry, and LED light group. That will probably push me to the Rubi because YOLO.

So, a Rubicon in Whorange with the 8-speed, LED lighting, aux switches, saddle leather, proximity entry, spray in bedliner, premium soft top (MAYBE hard top and buy soft top aftermarket, still undecided).

[troyguitar]

SxS goes in the useless bed.

Most don't fit even in a full size bed. SxS's are basically full vehicles at this point.

Have you considered getting a car that you actually like for daily stuff and only using a for stuff? That's all we ever did growing up and how my dad still does it. The big rig only gets driven when it's actually needed.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Plus storing an additional trailer and a side by side, which can't be driven on public roads.

I don't see Dplac daisy-chaining trailers to go off-roading and camping on the same trip either.

That point was made to show how much cheaper a ram
Rebel is, and to counter the obvious, well a rebel can’t go places gladiator can, which frankly doesn’t matter when you have a side by side. Those things are a more fun than any

They absolutely are, and I want one badly...but it just won't get used that much. It's hard to justify.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Most don't fit even in a full size bed. SxS's are basically full vehicles at this point.

Have you considered getting a car that you actually like for daily stuff and only using a for stuff? That's all we ever did growing up and how my dad still does it. The big rig only gets driven when it's actually needed.

Yes...and it's still a consideration. Between the Volt and the on the smoothest roads in SE MI, I really enjoy my current DD situation. The truck would be driven to work rarely TBH...mostly probably just the wife driving it a mile and makes me rethink everything. Still have to balance the wants vs needs.

[max225]

Well, at 5% off invoice when everyone is paying sticker or close to it, is likely the way to go. hookup plus it’s directly the hand that feeds.

All that said, what’s your build bro!? Color ? Options ? Etc

I'm debating a number of things.

Whorage is a given...which will mean waiting a bit, but should line up for September.

I'm stuck between a Sport S with the max tow pack (for 4.10's and beefy axles) and a Rubicon. Biggest things for the Rubicon are stupid things that aren't available on sport like the saddle leather, remote proximity entry, and LED light group. That will probably push me to the Rubi because YOLO.

So, a Rubicon in Whorange with the 8-speed, LED lighting, aux switches, saddle leather, proximity entry, spray in bedliner, premium soft top (MAYBE hard top and buy soft top aftermarket, still undecided).

Wow you can get active safety and collision avoidance on sport s but you can’t get doors that open like they do on a 22k corolla ? I even just checked myself jeep has shuffled the options on the wrangler many times so it may happen.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I'm debating a number of things.

Whorage is a given...which will mean waiting a bit, but should line up for September.

I'm stuck between a Sport S with the max tow pack (for 4.10's and beefy axles) and a Rubicon. Biggest things for the Rubicon are stupid things that aren't available on sport like the saddle leather, remote proximity entry, and LED light group. That will probably push me to the Rubi because YOLO.

So, a Rubicon in Whorange with the 8-speed, LED lighting, aux switches, saddle leather, proximity entry, spray in bedliner, premium soft top (MAYBE hard top and buy soft top aftermarket, still undecided).

Wow you can get active safety and collision avoidance on sport s but you can’t get doors that open like they do on a 22k corolla ? I even just checked myself jeep has shuffled the options on the wrangler many times so it may happen.

Yea, I don't get it. I HATE keyless start without proximity entry. My ATS had that. You take the remote out of your pocket to unlock the door, then you put the remote back in your pocket? ...or worse I'd drop it between the seat and console and have to fish for it. It was maddening. I'd rather just have a damned physical key so it has somewhere to go. If I could get proximity entry on the Sport S, I'd do that for sure. I'm going to research a bit more on that.

[Apex]

Wow you can get active safety and collision avoidance on sport s but you can’t get doors that open like they do on a 22k corolla ? I even just checked myself jeep has shuffled the options on the wrangler many times so it may happen.

Yea, I don't get it. I HATE keyless start without proximity entry. My ATS had that. You take the remote out of your pocket to unlock the door, then you put the remote back in your pocket? ...or worse I'd drop it between the seat and console and have to fish for it. It was maddening. I'd rather just have a damned physical key so it has somewhere to go. If I could get proximity entry on the Sport S, I'd do that for sure. I'm going to research a bit more on that.

You know people, make it happen.

[troyguitar]

Have you considered getting a car that you actually like for daily stuff and only using a for stuff? That's all we ever did growing up and how my dad still does it. The big rig only gets driven when it's actually needed.

Yes...and it's still a consideration. Between the Volt and the on the smoothest roads in SE MI, I really enjoy my current DD situation. The truck would be driven to work rarely TBH...mostly probably just the wife driving it a mile and makes me rethink everything. Still have to balance the wants vs needs.

Ah right, you have a wife who doesn't drive much and actually likes gigantic trucks. That's luck, just let her roll the coal while you away.

This is an easy situation.

She gets the RAM

You get the Hellcat

Swap the Volt out eventually for whatever winter you like.

[max225]

Wow you can get active safety and collision avoidance on sport s but you can’t get doors that open like they do on a 22k corolla ? I even just checked myself jeep has shuffled the options on the wrangler many times so it may happen.

Yea, I don't get it. I HATE keyless start without proximity entry. My ATS had that. You take the remote out of your pocket to unlock the door, then you put the remote back in your pocket? ...or worse I'd drop it between the seat and console and have to fish for it. It was maddening. I'd rather just have a damned physical key so it has somewhere to go. If I could get proximity entry on the Sport S, I'd do that for sure. I'm going to research a bit more on that.

Once you get used to the auto doors/start. It’s super hard to go back. It is in fact on of the Best convenience features.

I had a bare bones sport in Hawaii a few months back. The key situation was super fucking annoying, you had to physically approach each door and do something, got bags ? Use key to unlock, then lock again. Wanna lock your car ? Go around entire vehicle in a circle and check each door and trunk, if open use key or inside lock to lock. It was inducing every time

[CorvetteWaxer]

My plan would be this, assuming I keep the truck "forever":

1. Buy supercharger (whichever is better).
2. Take the tune that it comes with that is CARB certified so I can smog it later, and use it to get to the nearest real tuner.
3. Get a real tune done on a dyno and on the street, lots of good tuners here with HPTuners.
4. Keep CARB tune around for when smog time comes up, swap in and out as needed.
5. Buy a license for HPTuners and flash back and forth myself with no need to keep going to the tuner when I need smog checks.

This is a legit thing.

Though, knowing how particular you are, proceed with caution. Street tuning a vehicle is immensely difficult, and finding a tuner who's capable of it is tough. There's still minor issues I don't like with the tune on my C5, and while it drives perfectly fine, I've had multiple tuners throw up their hands as "the best it can be" when I know that's not true. I bought HP Tuners and have been working to tune the car myself because street day to day driving varies so much, you really need to constantly log it to identify the tiny issues.

Yep, I get it.

So, I have a friend here that owns a dyno shop and I've known him since about 1995. He's a good tuner, but not the best in the area, even he has told me that he'd be fine if I booked with the more "in demand" tuners here that have a 4-5 month wait for an appointment.

These guys start with a full on dyno tune to max out the power, then they spend a few days tweaking it all on the street, then get you a final dyno run. Supposedly, they claim that they may put up to 500 miles on the vehicle they are tuning over the span of "up to 7-10 days" to get it "right". However, they say most tunes are done in about 3 days.

[max225]

Yea, I don't get it. I HATE keyless start without proximity entry. My ATS had that. You take the remote out of your pocket to unlock the door, then you put the remote back in your pocket? ...or worse I'd drop it between the seat and console and have to fish for it. It was maddening. I'd rather just have a damned physical key so it has somewhere to go. If I could get proximity entry on the Sport S, I'd do that for sure. I'm going to research a bit more on that.

You know people, make it happen.

Right ? It’s a $495 option anyways money for something that should be standard. Why not make more money on the sport

[CorvetteWaxer]

Yea, I don't get it. I HATE keyless start without proximity entry. My ATS had that. You take the remote out of your pocket to unlock the door, then you put the remote back in your pocket? ...or worse I'd drop it between the seat and console and have to fish for it. It was maddening. I'd rather just have a damned physical key so it has somewhere to go. If I could get proximity entry on the Sport S, I'd do that for sure. I'm going to research a bit more on that.

Once you get used to the auto doors/start. It’s super hard to go back. It is in fact on of the Best convenience features.

I had a bare bones sport in Hawaii a few months back. The key situation was super fucking annoying, you had to physically approach each door and do something, got bags ? Use key to unlock, then lock again. Wanna lock your car ? Go around entire vehicle in a circle and check each door and trunk, if open use key or inside lock to lock. It was inducing every time

And to think that when I was specing out my JL you were about me spending the $500 for proximity entry.

[Apex]

You know people, make it happen.

Right ? It’s a $495 option anyways money for something that should be standard. Why not make more money on the sport

is an extra $495 that could be charged on nearly every Sport/S.

[max225]

Once you get used to the auto doors/start. It’s super hard to go back. It is in fact on of the Best convenience features.

I had a bare bones sport in Hawaii a few months back. The key situation was super fucking annoying, you had to physically approach each door and do something, got bags ? Use key to unlock, then lock again. Wanna lock your car ? Go around entire vehicle in a circle and check each door and trunk, if open use key or inside lock to lock. It was inducing every time

And to think that when I was specing out my JL you were about me spending the $500 for proximity entry.

I’m just that’s what they charge for

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Yes...and it's still a consideration. Between the Volt and the on the smoothest roads in SE MI, I really enjoy my current DD situation. The truck would be driven to work rarely TBH...mostly probably just the wife driving it a mile and makes me rethink everything. Still have to balance the wants vs needs.

Ah right, you have a wife who doesn't drive much and actually likes gigantic trucks. That's luck, just let her roll the coal while you away.

This is an easy situation.

She gets the RAM

You get the Hellcat

Swap the Volt out eventually for whatever winter you like.

She loves massive vehicles. A consideration was/is to lease her a RAM after the ZR2 and I'll just keep the Volt for year round commuting. I really like commuting in that thing, it's "free" and will last a long time. Maybe a PHEV Wrangler at some point...but

Wife literally drives 1 mile a day...in the summer she's riding her bike...so a lease could work there fine.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

This is a legit thing.

Though, knowing how particular you are, proceed with caution. Street tuning a vehicle is immensely difficult, and finding a tuner who's capable of it is tough. There's still minor issues I don't like with the tune on my C5, and while it drives perfectly fine, I've had multiple tuners throw up their hands as "the best it can be" when I know that's not true. I bought HP Tuners and have been working to tune the car myself because street day to day driving varies so much, you really need to constantly log it to identify the tiny issues.

Yep, I get it.

So, I have a friend here that owns a dyno shop and I've known him since about 1995. He's a good tuner, but not the best in the area, even he has told me that he'd be fine if I booked with the more "in demand" tuners here that have a 4-5 month wait for an appointment.

These guys start with a full on dyno tune to max out the power, then they spend a few days tweaking it all on the street, then get you a final dyno run. Supposedly, they claim that they may put up to 500 miles on the vehicle they are tuning over the span of "up to 7-10 days" to get it "right". However, they say most tunes are done in about 3 days.

I really think a proper thorough street tune would take a week of constant tweaking. I know my car has easily 30 hours of street tuning on it, and it's still not 100%.

[max225]

Ah right, you have a wife who doesn't drive much and actually likes gigantic trucks. That's luck, just let her roll the coal while you away.

This is an easy situation.

She gets the RAM

You get the Hellcat

Swap the Volt out eventually for whatever winter you like.

She loves massive vehicles. A consideration was/is to lease her a RAM after the ZR2 and I'll just keep the Volt for year round commuting. I really like commuting in that thing, it's "free" and will last a long time. Maybe a PHEV Wrangler at some point...but

Wife literally drives 1 mile a day...in the summer she's riding her bike...so a lease could work there fine.

like 6 months ago you complained that you were far under the 10k miles lease. How much do you guys actually drive ? And you have at least 3 vehicles for 2 people.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

And to think that when I was specing out my JL you were about me spending the $500 for proximity entry.

I’m just that’s what they charge for

There's a lot of people internally that think features like that don't belong on a Wrangler. There's a lot of really hardcore Wrangler/Jeep people here...but there needs to be a better balance. Push button start and proximity entry should go hand in hand IMO.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

She loves massive vehicles. A consideration was/is to lease her a RAM after the ZR2 and I'll just keep the Volt for year round commuting. I really like commuting in that thing, it's "free" and will last a long time. Maybe a PHEV Wrangler at some point...but

Wife literally drives 1 mile a day...in the summer she's riding her bike...so a lease could work there fine.

like 6 months ago you complained that you were far under the 10k miles lease. How much do you guys actually drive ? And you have at least 3 vehicles for 2 people.

No, you're thinking my last truck...I was way under on that thing.

The ZR2 we do a lot more adventuring to off-roading and whatnot. That means 500-1k mile trips at a time. We have 5 trips planned already before the truck goes back on lease, and it's currently at 15k miles out of 20k. We'll be pushing the lease end miles on planned trips alone, not counting our random spontaneous adventures.

[max225]

I’m just that’s what they charge for

There's a lot of people internally that think features like that don't belong on a Wrangler. There's a lot of really hardcore Wrangler/Jeep people here...but there needs to be a better balance. Push button start and proximity entry should go hand in hand IMO.

[pricerant]
“Jeep people” don’t buy JLs they keep their shitty 200k mile TJs, because that’s the “last real Jeep”, and most
Don’t have the money for a new one.

The reason the JL sells so well is not because it is missing said features, it’s because it finally has them.

There is a reason these have 8k on the hood now, the pricing went and it won’t get better anytime soon.

A jgc should never be cheaper than a wrangler but equally equipped it’s currently almost 8-10k cheaper because they have even more money on the hood
[endrant]

[Johnny_P]

I’m just that’s what they charge for

There's a lot of people internally that think features like that don't belong on a Wrangler. There's a lot of really hardcore Wrangler/Jeep people here...but there needs to be a better balance. Push button start and proximity entry should go hand in hand IMO.

The vast majority of people buying new wronglers aren't immediately road tripping to Moab so they can roll it off a rock ledge. They're doing normal people things like going to grocery stores, taking the dog to the park, dropping the kids off somewhere, or just simply commuting.