Lets talk about Tesla.

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max225 wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:36 am Doesn’t matter how it drives, this is a Tesla bashing thread. Let’s talk about the tent or better get smoking weed in the tent while talking about the most over hyped car of our lives :lolgasm:
I'm legit curious :doe:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:40 am
max225 wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:36 am Doesn’t matter how it drives, this is a Tesla bashing thread. Let’s talk about the tent or better get smoking weed in the tent while talking about the most over hyped car of our lives :lolgasm:
I'm legit curious :doe:
Plenty of reviewers to choose from, and your neighbor has one too right ? Take one out for a spin. At the end of the day it’s just a car nothing amazing. Just a nice electric car that has tons of storage space and epic acceleration, and workable range
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max225 wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:42 am
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:40 am
I'm legit curious :doe:
Plenty of reviewers to choose from, and your neighbor has one too right ? Take one out for a spin. At the end of the day it’s just a car nothing amazing. Just a nice electric car that has tons of storage space and epic acceleration, and workable range
+1 your assessment overall of this. Im not ready for them given what is lacking in the larger sense. They are interesting.
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Johnny_P wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:11 am
Dbest wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:36 am So impressions... we got a Model 3, long range, rear wheel drove, premium interior, with enhanced autopilot. $54,000.

The entire vehicle is missing buttons. The are power seat adjustment buttons on the side of the seat. There is a steering wheel button on each side that scrolls up and down and pushes left and right. The right side of the steering column is window washer type of lever that is only for the shifter, and a turn signal switch on the left side with a single button to do single wipe or spray the windshield. Besides that it’s window switches on the doors, and each door has a button to open the door. Every single other function of the vehicle is performed through tablet. This has ups and downs, positives are that you have less parts in the vehicle, less things assembled, less things to make noise and creak, less things to go bad, it makes for a clean futuristic look to a point. But with these big wide open uninterrupted surfaces that cheap shorty qualitynof materials used is really in your face on on display. So few pieces to work together yet the fit and finish is impressively bed. That steering wheel.... my god it’s awful. No joke it’s basically what I’d expect if I was going to the electronic section at Walmart to buy a steering wheel setup to play video games with.

The premium interior is pretty basic. Single zone HVAC, the big ass glass roof doesn’t, open, tilt, vent, lighten or darken, it’s just tinted glass that’s there in a fixed position. The seats are horribly uncomfortable and very hot to sit in. The car is alright for about 45 minutes before I find myself moving around in the seat and constantly tweaking the lumbar trying to find something that felt better. Pretty basic power seats. All 5 seats are heated butwith the controls on the tablet you can’t adjust your own seat temp in the back. The seat heaters are just 3 levels, no temperature balance too to bottom that you can can adjust and none of the seats are cooled (ventilated). The visors feel like your going to snap them off opening them, and the little door for the vanity mirror is literally a magnetic flap. Even vent adjustments for the HVAC are done through the tablet. I will say the HVAC is definitely a strong point, it blows cold as fuck and the output is great, rear seat airflow is better then any other vehicle I’ve ever been in especially considering it just has 2 center console mounted vent openings. There’s no key or remote, you use your phone or a credit card looking thing. Tap the B pillar with the card and it’ll unlock to let you in, there’s no ignition or anything, you set the card or your phone on the center consul behind the cupholder and as long as you hit the brake and shift the car is on, you don’t turn it off, you press the P button in on the shifter and then get out and leave.

The tablet menus and operation have a very Apple type look and feel to it. It’s very easy to use, but it also is a distraction to click through menus to find what you want. It did take longer than I’d like to admit to figure out how to lock the doors, it’s an icon overlaying the nav map along the top, with satalite view maps turned on it blended in a bit to well. It’s weird that pressing the wiper button just runs them once and the wiper options pop up on the screen and you turn them on and set them from there. Going from very hot ambient temps to a hard rain for a few minutes from a little tropical storm coming off the ocean then hot again having to constantly adjust wipers and defrost to keep the windshield digging up did not go well. The auto setting for the wipers did not respond to the fog on the windshield.

The left side of the screen shows your vehicle speed and it has a little 3D car, that’s you, and then it displays 3D cars around you as you drive. It’s kinda cool to see how the vehicle interprets it’s suroundings but it’s kinda cheesy as well. There’s parking sensors and a back up camera but no top view, that was disappointing. The car has a camera in the windshield, both B pillars, rear hatch, and both of those little decorative inlays on the fenders but it can’t show you your sorroundings when parked.

Everything being on the tablet mixed with bad seats and a cheap interior, especially the steering wheel, makes the car feel like a gimmick, like it’s kinda cool but it feels like you bought a novelty.

With your phone as a key you can override whoever is driving it with the credit card even if your not in it. They can be driving it while you’re back at the office and you can mess with the HVAC, limit their speed, turn on their heated seats, change the radio stations, it’s kinda fun to screw with other people while they are driving it.

(I typed this via phone, dont mind the mistakes)
Agree that the steering wheel looks like a piece of shit. Disappointing that the seats aren't comfortable, and the giant screen controlling everything would likely annoy me as well.

How does it drive though?
It drove good. The steering felt good, the ride was a little harsher than what I expected but it felt firm and planted for an egg. Wet road with the traction control off it’s a little drift machine. For not being a performance model it’s quick. Overall I’d personally choose an i3 with range extender over the model 3.
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I like the i3 but the pathetic 70 mile electric or 150 total mile range is just not acceptable. Especially with us based programming vs the eu which extends the range and allo a the range extender to Work as designed vs what happens here
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We took an i3 on a 5 hour drive last year, used the battery range than ran off the battery extender. It only holds like a gallon of gas at a time and it limits the top speed to like 55-60mph but you can cruise for another 30-40 minutes then put a gallon in it, repeat repeat repeat. I find that preferable to be stuck and it’s a much nice more comfortable vehicle. I liked the i3 more than I’d like to admit.
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Dbest wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:29 pm We took an i3 on a 5 hour drive last year, used the battery range than ran off the battery extender. It only holds like a gallon of gas at a time and it limits the top speed to like 55-60mph but you can cruise for another 30-40 minutes then put a gallon in it, repeat repeat repeat. I find that preferable to be stuck and it’s a much nice more comfortable vehicle. I liked the i3 more than I’d like to admit.
:like: Thanks for that insight. Interesting!
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Dbest wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:29 pm We took an i3 on a 5 hour drive last year, used the battery range than ran off the battery extender. It only holds like a gallon of gas at a time and it limits the top speed to like 55-60mph but you can cruise for another 30-40 minutes then put a gallon in it, repeat repeat repeat. I find that preferable to be stuck and it’s a much nice more comfortable vehicle. I liked the i3 more than I’d like to admit.
That's not the intended purpose of the range extender. The US laws made BMW limit the gas tank size by .5 gallons and disable the ability to run range extender whenever you please. As that causes this whole "55-60mph" limit bs etc as it only runs when the car is below a 5% charge.

The design of the vehicle was as such that you start off with a full battery or whatever, flip on the range extender at the beginning of your trip and it'll maintain the charge for 80 miles or so, then it switches to electric or you fill up more, the tank holds 2.4 gallons, but 1.9, in "us" spec thanks to software fuckery. The mpg is only around 33-35 in it... overall I really wanted to get one, but then I'd have to flash it to EU software which is super illegal blah blah. too much fuckery for something on bicycle tires
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Wow that sucks, the one we were on was a couple years old, I hadn’t heard of the software change, that really blows.
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Dbest wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:50 pm Wow that sucks, the one we were on was a couple years old, I hadn’t heard of the software change, that really blows.
It is a real shame, as the design of the car even though "toasterish" is quite unique in a good way, the materials used, the carbon tub etc, is all quite epic from a design an engineering standpoint. The way that packaged and built is :mindblown: If it had a 150 electric+150 gas range it would be in my garage yesterday. Too bad the range situation is still shitty :( even the upgraded battery models "only" do 180 EPA range at this moment with the range extender.
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Is the office coffee bad?? Tesla Loses Supply Management Chief as Exodus Worsens
Another vice president is leaving the electric car maker.
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Davestr wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:05 am Is the office coffee bad?? Tesla Loses Supply Management Chief as Exodus Worsens
Another vice president is leaving the electric car maker.
I imagine that the supply chain head job is the worst job at Tesla.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:16 am
Davestr wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:05 am Is the office coffee bad?? Tesla Loses Supply Management Chief as Exodus Worsens
Another vice president is leaving the electric car maker.
I imagine that the supply chain head job is the worst job at Tesla.
:dat:
The day anyone in supply chain stops supplying...
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Detroit wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:16 am
Davestr wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:05 am Is the office coffee bad?? Tesla Loses Supply Management Chief as Exodus Worsens
Another vice president is leaving the electric car maker.
I imagine that the supply chain head job is the worst job at Tesla.
This just does not appear to be headed for a happy ending. With the release of the Audi E machine that was displayed this week, I sense a beginning of the end. When the power of the OEM's is put out in force, what does Tesla have to stand on. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. An idea and energy are not enough. You need sustainability and some cold hard cash/profits.
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Davestr wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:56 pm
Detroit wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:16 am
I imagine that the supply chain head job is the worst job at Tesla.
This just does not appear to be headed for a happy ending. With the release of the Audi E machine that was displayed this week, I sense a beginning of the end. When the power of the OEM's is put out in force, what does Tesla have to stand on. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. An idea and energy are not enough. You need sustainability and some cold hard cash/profits.
They need to build/sell every single high margin Model 3 they can make... currently :derp: 's are willing to snatch em up and they have the $7500 tax rebate +$2500 state rebates subsidizing them. The end of that would be the perfect storm.
$10k+ Added to a vehicle you have to wait for
Epic competition from OEMs
Lack of supply
Immense costs to keep shit going because who on fucking mother earth flies in industrial machines

If they made 7500/10000 cars a week right now, they would be profitable, they are too far off that target. I am maintaining my 50/50 view on them. I want them to succeed but they are certainly not in for a smooth road.

Also... everyone is going :fullretard: with money... out here. Lucid Motors is sharing a business park with my company and I saw their single prototype driving around... they have no factory... no viable finished car... yet... someone just gave them a FUCKING BILLION dollars... to burn.
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max225 wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:36 pm
Davestr wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:56 pm

This just does not appear to be headed for a happy ending. With the release of the Audi E machine that was displayed this week, I sense a beginning of the end. When the power of the OEM's is put out in force, what does Tesla have to stand on. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. An idea and energy are not enough. You need sustainability and some cold hard cash/profits.
They need to build/sell every single high margin Model 3 they can make... currently :derp: 's are willing to snatch em up and they have the $7500 tax rebate +$2500 state rebates subsidizing them. The end of that would be the perfect storm.
$10k+ Added to a vehicle you have to wait for
Epic competition from OEMs
Lack of supply
Immense costs to keep shit going because who on fucking mother earth flies in industrial machines

If they made 7500/10000 cars a week right now, they would be profitable, they are too far off that target. I am maintaining my 50/50 view on them. I want them to succeed but they are certainly not in for a smooth road.

Also... everyone is going :fullretard: with money... out here. Lucid Motors is sharing a business park with my company and I saw their single prototype driving around... they have no factory... no viable finished car... yet... someone just gave them a FUCKING BILLION dollars... to burn.
Max - interesting analysis so here is my take. Im sure Detroit can offer his insights as an expert and blow me out of the water lol :)

-To make more they need more space and possibly more people - yet they have too many people compared to other makers. Catch 22 they cannot avoid given their known efficiency issues
-I dont think rebates will help as they have no volume in comparison to other makers and little market share
-Lack of supply - see my first point
- Id like to see them succeed as its always cool to have new makers with nice looking and good performing products avail to the market. Behind that one needs a system to succeed beyond the delivery and warranty period.

I think like Tesla, LUCID is about here and now profits in the short run with no real look to the future. Profit off stock price ala Tesla (assuming they are public or go public).
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Interesting read.
I always thought electrics should have epic low maintenance costs but I keep hearing stories about Tesla's always breaking something and needing work done, software glitches, etc. But I suppose that's more related to build/brogramming flaws than mechanical reliability of the drivetrains?
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Davestr wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:47 pm
max225 wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:36 pm

They need to build/sell every single high margin Model 3 they can make... currently :derp: 's are willing to snatch em up and they have the $7500 tax rebate +$2500 state rebates subsidizing them. The end of that would be the perfect storm.
$10k+ Added to a vehicle you have to wait for
Epic competition from OEMs
Lack of supply
Immense costs to keep shit going because who on fucking mother earth flies in industrial machines

If they made 7500/10000 cars a week right now, they would be profitable, they are too far off that target. I am maintaining my 50/50 view on them. I want them to succeed but they are certainly not in for a smooth road.

Also... everyone is going :fullretard: with money... out here. Lucid Motors is sharing a business park with my company and I saw their single prototype driving around... they have no factory... no viable finished car... yet... someone just gave them a FUCKING BILLION dollars... to burn.
Max - interesting analysis so here is my take. Im sure Detroit can offer his insights as an expert and blow me out of the water lol :)

-To make more they need more space and possibly more people - yet they have too many people compared to other makers. Catch 22 they cannot avoid given their known efficiency issues
-I dont think rebates will help as they have no volume in comparison to other makers and little market share
-Lack of supply - see my first point
- Id like to see them succeed as its always cool to have new makers with nice looking and good performing products avail to the market. Behind that one needs a system to succeed beyond the delivery and warranty period.

I think like Tesla, LUCID is about here and now profits in the short run with no real look to the future. Profit off stock price ala Tesla (assuming they are public or go public).
The factory site, in theory, should be able to produce around 350k units, but that was 350k units of prehistoric tacos. A model 3/X/S are far more complicated to produce so I am assuming they are capped somewhere at that... 7k (their peak output from July S+X+3)x 52 ~365k units a year... so it seems that is their theoretical max.

That should be PLENTY for them, as at that rate they would actually be a bigger car company in the US than VW. I don't see them dominating the markets and building more because there simply isn't more demand than that. Their vehicles are far too expensive.
The rebates are a huge impact... There are a few goldman studies that quote what happens to electric vehicles once the subsidies die down... 80% sales decreases.
In particular, the model 3 would see a HUGE impact as that particular vehicle has a much lower entry price... hell the subsidy is 25% of the vehicle price in California, the biggest market for electric cars in the US/world. It would be 30% of the price of a base model 3. That is a figure that is unfathomable.

Demand we discussed already... i think they need to build now and expand to new markets.... such as china/europe more so as the price points are lower. Thanks to the European Tariffs a tesla is VERY expensive there, which is why they "assemble" them somewhere in the Netherlands. :thanksmerkle: They likely can't handle more volume down there either.

They have an INCREDIBLY hard road ahead of them, with some of the worlds brightest people setting all of the odds against them. I am shocked Elon made it as far as he did, because the auto industry hasn't seen a new-commer as such in our lifetimes. It will be a sad day if/when they go under. They are very good at what they do, but that is not good enough when you work in an industry that competed globally with one another for 140 years, and worked out how to squeeze pennies out of a fastener, vs Tesla personally delivering a vehicle to your house, allowing you to use free charging nationwide.

It won't last.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-f ... y-sec.html

Elon is getting slapped for running his "Twitter mouth". :popcorn:
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max225 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:58 pm https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-f ... y-sec.html

Elon is getting slapped for running his "Twitter mouth". :popcorn:
And so is the share price :lol:

He has to tread very lightly.
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Desertbreh wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
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max225 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:58 pm https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-f ... y-sec.html

Elon is getting slapped for running his "Twitter mouth". :popcorn:
Finally, real consequence for all this Twitter :bs:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:05 am
max225 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:58 pm https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-f ... y-sec.html

Elon is getting slapped for running his "Twitter mouth". :popcorn:
Finally, real consequence for all this Twitter :bs:
:like:
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Detroit wrote:
max225 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:58 pm https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-f ... y-sec.html

Elon is getting slapped for running his "Twitter mouth". :popcorn:
Finally, real consequence for all this Twitter :bs:
Musk 2020, it's just locker room talk.
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troyguitar wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:58 pm
Detroit wrote:
Finally, real consequence for all this Twitter :bs:
Musk 2020, it's just locker room talk.
:like:
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