Obligatory C5 Thread

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Detroit
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Tue May 07, 2019 6:41 pm

CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:14 pm
Detroit wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:10 pm

Same as 243, same as Z06. Those are excellent castings.
Worth a weekend swap though?
Probably not without a tune.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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CaleDeRoo
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Tue May 07, 2019 6:46 pm

Detroit wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:41 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:14 pm


Worth a weekend swap though?
Probably not without a tune.
Was planning on getting a tune after 4.10s anyways though... :evilplan:

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Tue May 07, 2019 6:49 pm

CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:46 pm
Detroit wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:41 pm

Probably not without a tune.
Was planning on getting a tune after 4.10s anyways though... :evilplan:
Would be a great time to do a heads swap and headers.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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CaleDeRoo
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Tue May 07, 2019 6:53 pm

Detroit wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:49 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:46 pm


Was planning on getting a tune after 4.10s anyways though... :evilplan:
Would be a great time to do a heads swap and headers.
:wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful:


:csb:

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Tue May 07, 2019 6:55 pm

CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:53 pm
Detroit wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:49 pm

Would be a great time to do a heads swap and headers.
:wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful:


:csb:
Right? I really wouldn't bother doing anything more than gears if you don't do headers. You're 90% of the way there if swapping heads.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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CaleDeRoo
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Tue May 07, 2019 7:09 pm

Detroit wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:55 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:53 pm


:wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful: :wasteful:


:csb:
Right? I really wouldn't bother doing anything more than gears if you don't do headers. You're 90% of the way there if swapping heads.
I'm honestly concerned about sound and heat levels with headers.

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Tue May 07, 2019 8:55 pm

CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:09 pm
Detroit wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:55 pm

Right? I really wouldn't bother doing anything more than gears if you don't do headers. You're 90% of the way there if swapping heads.
I'm honestly concerned about sound and heat levels with headers.
Do you not like the sound of awesome?
max225 wrote: You can't "hoon" a pos like that. You can however set up a methlab.

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CaleDeRoo
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Tue May 07, 2019 9:11 pm

Desertbreh wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:55 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:09 pm


I'm honestly concerned about sound and heat levels with headers.
Do you not like the sound of awesome?
I leave for work at 5AM plus aftermarket exhausts are illegal in NY and I've been ticketed before. I also like the fact that I can cruise in silence. I don't want to get headers only to get tired of the volume.

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Tue May 07, 2019 11:00 pm

CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:11 pm
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:55 pm


Do you not like the sound of awesome?
I leave for work at 5AM plus aftermarket exhausts are illegal in NY and I've been ticketed before. I also like the fact that I can cruise in silence. I don't want to get headers only to get tired of the volume.
1) keep cats on it and it won't be super loud until you lay into it. It'll be louder, sure, but it's manageable with cats.
2)heat? Dude... ceramic coat them. Best $400 you'll spend. It'll keep heat in the pipes, and stop it from soaking heat into your wheel wells and engine bay. You can fucking put your dick on the headers 5 minutes after turning the car off. I've done it 7 times. The cast parts will be hot for several hours, but the headers will be cool quick. The wear and tear of items in the engine bay will be prolonged as well due to less heat soak. Plus more power since it'll keep hot air in the pipes, which flows faster. Might be miniscule, but physics is physics.

I was so impressed with mine that I will hands down ceramic coat every performance exhaust piping that I get from now on on any vehicle I own.

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Wed May 08, 2019 12:01 am

Desertbreh wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:55 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:09 pm


I'm honestly concerned about sound and heat levels with headers.
Do you not like the sound of freedom?
FTFY
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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Wed May 08, 2019 3:13 pm

coogles wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:25 pm
I'm going to bail out of work a little early and go drive that white over red one to see if I really want a :poorvette: in my life. Assuming I like it, that EB one is ~2hrs from me. I'll have to take Friday off or something and go check it out.
Whelp, a C5 is a big fat :nope: from me. There are obviously some things to like, but two things killed it for me - the gearbox, and the seats.

The gearbox felt like something closer to farm equipment than a sports car. The level of effort, the feel of the whole thing, it wasn't at all what I'd expect from a car with sporting intentions. I've driven a C6 Grand Sport and the trans in that was worlds better, so I'm not sure why the difference. But I've heard the same complaint in a couple reviews comparing the two generations now, and if that's how all C5s feel, I'm really not a fan.

More important though, were those seats. Holy shit, those seats. I'm not exaggerating when I say I've never been in something so uncomfortable. After no more than 10-15 minutes my back was killing me and it lasted for a couple hours. That, plus the lack of thigh support or bolstering of any kind would require them to be ripped out the second I brought the car home, or I'd quite literally never drive it.

So if anybody is eyeing up that EB C5, have at it, boys. I guess I'm on the hunt for something else, now.

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Wed May 08, 2019 3:35 pm

coogles wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:13 pm
coogles wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:25 pm
I'm going to bail out of work a little early and go drive that white over red one to see if I really want a :poorvette: in my life. Assuming I like it, that EB one is ~2hrs from me. I'll have to take Friday off or something and go check it out.
Whelp, a C5 is a big fat :nope: from me. There are obviously some things to like, but two things killed it for me - the gearbox, and the seats.

The gearbox felt like something closer to farm equipment than a sports car. The level of effort, the feel of the whole thing, it wasn't at all what I'd expect from a car with sporting intentions. I've driven a C6 Grand Sport and the trans in that was worlds better, so I'm not sure why the difference. But I've heard the same complaint in a couple reviews comparing the two generations now, and if that's how all C5s feel, I'm really not a fan.

More important though, were those seats. Holy shit, those seats. I'm not exaggerating when I say I've never been in something so uncomfortable. After no more than 10-15 minutes my back was killing me and it lasted for a couple hours. That, plus the lack of thigh support or bolstering of any kind would require them to be ripped out the second I brought the car home, or I'd quite literally never drive it.

So if anybody is eyeing up that EB C5, have at it, boys. I guess I'm on the hunt for something else, now.
Hm, weird.

The shifter is easy to fix...it's not the transmission. Usually the shifter linkage just needs some adjustment that people rarely do. I also replaced the shifter box on mine, and the shifter is a legit 2-finger sports car affair.

Did you adjust the seat at all or just plop in it and go?

The seats aren't great, but I find them to be comfortable when adjusted right. The car should have had sport seats (was packaged with the HUD, which I thought I saw on that car) with adjustable lumbar , which is huge for back support, and the bottom can be adjusted at both the front and year to give you as much thigh support as you want. I drive with quite a bit of thigh support, it's nice. Bolstering for the thighs is indeed non-existent, but the seat back bolstering is moderate and also adjustable to fit your sides.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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troyguitar
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Wed May 08, 2019 3:39 pm

C5 seats are fucking garbage. If you fuck with them enough you can make them tolerable. Pulling/moving springs and foam, swapping or adding covers, etc. as needed can eventually get you to something decent-ish.

Chris's car also has the best C5/C6 shifter I've ever tried, by far. I spent probably 40-50 hours cumulative trying to adjust mine and never got it half as good as his. Replacing the box must be the secret.

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Wed May 08, 2019 3:43 pm

troyguitar wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:39 pm
C5 seats are fucking garbage. If you fuck with them enough you can make them tolerable. Pulling/moving springs and foam, swapping or adding covers, etc. as needed can eventually get you to something decent-ish.

Chris's car also has the best C5/C6 shifter I've ever tried, by far. I spent probably 40-50 hours cumulative trying to adjust mine and never got it half as good as his. Replacing the box must be the secret.
Shit yea...I did remove some springs in my driver's seat and added some foam. Still, it's about 30 minutes or work and the result is quite tolerable for the street.

You drove my car before the rebuilt shifter box. It's gotten even better. My car must just be :unicorn:
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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coogles
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Wed May 08, 2019 3:45 pm

Detroit wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:35 pm
Hm, weird.

The shifter is easy to fix...it's not the transmission. Usually the shifter linkage just needs some adjustment that people rarely do. I also replaced the shifter box on mine, and the shifter is a legit 2-finger sports car affair.

Did you adjust the seat at all or just plop in it and go?

The seats aren't great, but I find them to be comfortable when adjusted right. The car should have had sport seats (was packaged with the HUD, which I thought I saw on that car) with adjustable lumbar , which is huge for back support, and the bottom can be adjusted at both the front and year to give you as much thigh support as you want. I drive with quite a bit of thigh support, it's nice. Bolstering for the thighs is indeed non-existent, but the seat back bolstering is moderate and also adjustable to fit your sides.
I think I'd barely have been able to move the gear level from neutral over to the gate in front of first with two fingers. The level of effort required to change gears in this car was significantly higher than anything else I've ever driven. Felt like a dump truck.

I had the back of the seat as low as it would go and still felt like I was sitting too high, and to get in the right position with the pedals I felt like I couldn't put the front edge of the cushion too far up. I did adjust the lumbar support to be nearly maxed like I have it in the GTI. It was set to "0" at first, I pulled over halfway through to make some seat adjustments, but none of it seemed to help, really. :iono:

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Wed May 08, 2019 3:46 pm

coogles wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:45 pm
Detroit wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:35 pm
Hm, weird.

The shifter is easy to fix...it's not the transmission. Usually the shifter linkage just needs some adjustment that people rarely do. I also replaced the shifter box on mine, and the shifter is a legit 2-finger sports car affair.

Did you adjust the seat at all or just plop in it and go?

The seats aren't great, but I find them to be comfortable when adjusted right. The car should have had sport seats (was packaged with the HUD, which I thought I saw on that car) with adjustable lumbar , which is huge for back support, and the bottom can be adjusted at both the front and year to give you as much thigh support as you want. I drive with quite a bit of thigh support, it's nice. Bolstering for the thighs is indeed non-existent, but the seat back bolstering is moderate and also adjustable to fit your sides.
I think I'd barely have been able to move the gear level from neutral over to the gate in front of first with two fingers. The level of effort required to change gears in this car was significantly higher than anything else I've ever driven. Felt like a dump truck.

I had the back of the seat as low as it would go and still felt like I was sitting too high, and to get in the right position with the pedals I felt like I couldn't put the front edge of the cushion too far up. I did adjust the lumbar support to be nearly maxed like I have it in the GTI. It was set to "0" at first, I pulled over halfway through to make some seat adjustments, but none of it seemed to help, really. :iono:
Dang. :(
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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coogles
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Wed May 08, 2019 3:47 pm

Detroit wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:46 pm
coogles wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:45 pm


I think I'd barely have been able to move the gear level from neutral over to the gate in front of first with two fingers. The level of effort required to change gears in this car was significantly higher than anything else I've ever driven. Felt like a dump truck.

I had the back of the seat as low as it would go and still felt like I was sitting too high, and to get in the right position with the pedals I felt like I couldn't put the front edge of the cushion too far up. I did adjust the lumbar support to be nearly maxed like I have it in the GTI. It was set to "0" at first, I pulled over halfway through to make some seat adjustments, but none of it seemed to help, really. :iono:
Dang. :(
All it needs is some Caravaggios. :wasteful:

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Wed May 08, 2019 3:51 pm

coogles wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:47 pm
Detroit wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:46 pm

Dang. :(
All it needs is some Caravaggios. :wasteful:
Really, just tinkering with the seats a bit. Remove the center two springs on the seat bottom rear and it drops you down a bit more (I agree with you wanting the rear to drop more). Add some foam to the front bottom sides, and it's nice extra thigh support. The foam is actually sold in a kit. These are well documented on the interwebz.

The shifter is another thing. Mechanically, there's not a whole lot different between the C5 and C6. I guess my car is a bit :unicorn: but there's nothing custom about it...any car should be able to shift that well. I also suspect that trans fluid (I run Redline synthetic ATF) makes a difference in shifting a bit too.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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Wed May 08, 2019 3:53 pm

Detroit wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:51 pm
coogles wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:47 pm


All it needs is some Caravaggios. :wasteful:
Really, just tinkering with the seats a bit. Remove the center two springs on the seat bottom rear and it drops you down a bit more (I agree with you wanting the rear to drop more). Add some foam to the front bottom sides, and it's nice extra thigh support. The foam is actually sold in a kit. These are well documented on the interwebz.

The shifter is another thing. Mechanically, there's not a whole lot different between the C5 and C6. I guess my car is a bit :unicorn: but there's nothing custom about it...any car should be able to shift that well. I also suspect that trans fluid (I run Redline synthetic ATF) makes a difference in shifting a bit too.
C6 has an entirely different transmission on the later cars, TR6060 instead of T56 or something? I haven't actually driven one :doe: - the GS rental I had was an auto.

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Wed May 08, 2019 3:59 pm

troyguitar wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:53 pm
C6 has an entirely different transmission on the later cars, TR6060 instead of T56 or something? I haven't actually driven one :doe: - the GS rental I had was an auto.
From what I'm finding, the 08+ cars have the TR-6060. Wikipedia says:
Changes from T56-six speed
The FG Falcon launch documentation describes the new gearbox: "The new synchroniser package features triple synchromesh on first and second gears, and double synchromesh on all other gears, including reverse, which has significantly reduced gear shift efforts and shift travel.

The reduced shift travel provided by the synchroniser package has also allowed increased space for the use of larger gears, which are stronger to deliver improved torque capacity and gearbox durability. A new single-piece counter shaft also contributes to the greater torque capacity and durability enhancements.

Other features of the new TR-6060 transmission include:

Reduced friction in the shifter system courtesy of a new cam and anti-friction plunger to control the side load shift detents.
Forward and rearward shift detent grooves are broached on the front of the main-shaft with a spring-loaded anti-friction roller, for more precise control of shift detents and positive shift feel.
Anti-friction ball struts, sintered hubs and fine-pitch splines on all synchronisers for reduced friction between components - delivering improved shift feel and reduced shift efforts.
Wider, two piece gears with machined clutch teeth for more precise gear engagement and reduced potential for gear block-outs."
:science:

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Wed May 08, 2019 4:00 pm

troyguitar wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:53 pm
Detroit wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:51 pm

Really, just tinkering with the seats a bit. Remove the center two springs on the seat bottom rear and it drops you down a bit more (I agree with you wanting the rear to drop more). Add some foam to the front bottom sides, and it's nice extra thigh support. The foam is actually sold in a kit. These are well documented on the interwebz.

The shifter is another thing. Mechanically, there's not a whole lot different between the C5 and C6. I guess my car is a bit :unicorn: but there's nothing custom about it...any car should be able to shift that well. I also suspect that trans fluid (I run Redline synthetic ATF) makes a difference in shifting a bit too.
C6 has an entirely different transmission on the later cars, TR6060 instead of T56 or something? I haven't actually driven one :doe: - the GS rental I had was an auto.
I honestly don't find them to be that much better than my car.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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Detroit
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Wed May 08, 2019 4:00 pm

coogles wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:59 pm
troyguitar wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:53 pm
C6 has an entirely different transmission on the later cars, TR6060 instead of T56 or something? I haven't actually driven one :doe: - the GS rental I had was an auto.
From what I'm finding, the 08+ cars have the TR-6060. Wikipedia says:
Changes from T56-six speed
The FG Falcon launch documentation describes the new gearbox: "The new synchroniser package features triple synchromesh on first and second gears, and double synchromesh on all other gears, including reverse, which has significantly reduced gear shift efforts and shift travel.

The reduced shift travel provided by the synchroniser package has also allowed increased space for the use of larger gears, which are stronger to deliver improved torque capacity and gearbox durability. A new single-piece counter shaft also contributes to the greater torque capacity and durability enhancements.

Other features of the new TR-6060 transmission include:

Reduced friction in the shifter system courtesy of a new cam and anti-friction plunger to control the side load shift detents.
Forward and rearward shift detent grooves are broached on the front of the main-shaft with a spring-loaded anti-friction roller, for more precise control of shift detents and positive shift feel.
Anti-friction ball struts, sintered hubs and fine-pitch splines on all synchronisers for reduced friction between components - delivering improved shift feel and reduced shift efforts.
Wider, two piece gears with machined clutch teeth for more precise gear engagement and reduced potential for gear block-outs."
:science:
I knew about the 6060, didn't know about the shifter stuff. You should go drive one to compare for :science:
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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Acid666
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Drives: 02 Z06/95 Meowta/05 SilveraDOE

Wed May 08, 2019 4:11 pm

The shifter problem is widespread, and the way to fix it is to either do a C6 shifter or an aftermarket short throw that's not trash. I test drove 4 Z06s before buying mine. The first 2 felt like trash and it put a nasty taste in my mouth. 3rd was a stock C5 and it was mehhhh. 4th, and the one that I bought had a Breathless Performance short throw in it and believe me, I wasn't a fan of it but after the guy I bought it from told me he was used to it, I learned that it's an easy fix if I really wanted to. The first 2 cars, I bet they had aggressive short throws as well but I thought they had some bent forks or syncros or something. I immediately was like "FUCK THIS CAR".

After installing the C6 shifter that :melon: gave me, the shifts turned from trash into straight butter. It was super easy and very OEM. The problem was that I missed that firmness and shifting and knowing that I'm in gear. My shifter is stiff, but I'm used to it. I ultimately wanted to upgrade to the MGW, but don't have the spare $300 or so to throw at that since I'm spending it on the Miata now. But yes, don't let the shifter turn you away. It can be fixed. The box rebuild is a great option.

Seat-wise, yeah, they're kinda meh. But I've got a racing seat in mine now so I don't even remember what the stock seat feels like other than it lacks side bolsters.

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Detroit
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
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Wed May 08, 2019 4:13 pm

Mine is all C5 stock with a rebuilt lower box. So weird how different fixes do and don't work for people.
Desertbreh wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm
My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.

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troyguitar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
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Wed May 08, 2019 4:15 pm

Detroit wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:00 pm
troyguitar wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:53 pm


C6 has an entirely different transmission on the later cars, TR6060 instead of T56 or something? I haven't actually driven one :doe: - the GS rental I had was an auto.
I honestly don't find them to be that much better than my car.
:word:

Yours is already good, I just don't know how/why it's better than others.

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