2021 Automotive market thread

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Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:45 am
max225 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:06 am

Yep and kind of funny to see Ford with 50% more inventory than toyota and Subaru when they “had inventory”. And yet Ford dealers have “nothing to sell”. I bet they have some pos eco sports or something rotting on lots and 0 Broncos or bronco sports and Mavericks or what not. Skewing the averages
Yep, a broader product portfolio will always have some losers skewing the averages. Toyota has always had much stronger inventory discipline than the Americans, and it's remarkable they can have such a broad portfolio and still run so lean.
Aside from a little dealer allocation, toyota builds to order. Nobody is getting anything for more than $500 below MSRP (traditionally)
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Tarspin wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:22 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:45 am
Yep, a broader product portfolio will always have some losers skewing the averages. Toyota has always had much stronger inventory discipline than the Americans, and it's remarkable they can have such a broad portfolio and still run so lean.
Aside from a little dealer allocation, toyota builds to order. Nobody is getting anything for more than $500 below MSRP (traditionally)
No, toyota doesn’t build anything to order. They determine what they think every market “needs” and build to that. You as customer are then using the dealer to try and find you an “allocation” to see if you and toyota have a Match. You as the customer have 0 power at toyota. Unlike everyone else
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When we were looking a few months ago, Toyota dealers didn’t seem to have a problem getting stock. Just had to wait a little bit but they were steadily replenishing. Honda was pretty jacked as was Hyundai. Mazda had a bunch of vehicles for some reason.

I think Toyota has the power to negotiate stronger contracts with their suppliers.
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Johnny_P wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:11 pm When we were looking a few months ago, Toyota dealers didn’t seem to have a problem getting stock. Just had to wait a little bit but they were steadily replenishing. Honda was pretty jacked as was Hyundai. Mazda had a bunch of vehicles for some reason.

I think Toyota has the power to negotiate stronger contracts with their suppliers.
I've read that Toyota sets production volumes further out than most, and the supply chain is set up to follow those forecasts. And a huge part of why they can do that is because they dictate what dealers get and thus what they produce. There's no surprises in the supply chain for features or models that suddenly need more volume.

On the flip, if they mess up a forecast, it's fucked for a while over or under.

While it appears to screw over the customer by not caring about their requirements, it makes the business so much simpler and results in better quality products with less disruption. I honestly wish more OEMs would follow this model.
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max225 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:29 pm
Tarspin wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:22 pm

Aside from a little dealer allocation, toyota builds to order. Nobody is getting anything for more than $500 below MSRP (traditionally)
No, toyota doesn’t build anything to order. They determine what they think every market “needs” and build to that. You as customer are then using the dealer to try and find you an “allocation” to see if you and toyota have a Match. You as the customer have 0 power at toyota. Unlike everyone else
Ahh cool, thanks for clarifying... mah bad
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Most people aren’t custom ordering their Camrys and Rav4s.
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Johnny_P wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:12 pm Most people aren’t custom ordering their Camrys and Rav4s.
No, but Toyota also doesn't build a ton of crap nobody wants to flood the lots and discount to sell, at least not like the american OEMs. They've always built more to demand, which is what Mario was referring to.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:24 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:12 pm Most people aren’t custom ordering their Camrys and Rav4s.
No, but Toyota also doesn't build a ton of crap nobody wants to flood the lots and discount to sell, at least not like the american OEMs. They've always built more to demand, which is what Mario was referring to.
Thanks Chris, I was trying to spit that out with the assumption they have a system for keeping inventory output aligned with orders. They don't fill parking lots just to make their build quotas.
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Tarspin wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:33 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:24 pm
No, but Toyota also doesn't build a ton of crap nobody wants to flood the lots and discount to sell, at least not like the american OEMs. They've always built more to demand, which is what Mario was referring to.
Thanks Chris, I was trying to spit that out with the assumption they have a system for keeping inventory output aligned with orders. They don't fill parking lots just to make their build quotas.
Yea it is quite interesting because considering they are somewhere in the top 2, as far as world's biggest car markers are concerned. They are certainly doing things VERY differently from all other oems. Which is a bit surprising.

Also an interesting factoid. Toyota is going to produce MORE cars in December 21 than they ever have.

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-sup ... d-cutbacks
Global production will reach 800,000 units in December, up from 760,000 units the same time last year as the company was racing to recoup output from the pandemic slowdown.
Toyota said all 14 plants and 28 production lines in Japan will be "operating normally" for the first time since May.
Toyota is coming off a production cut in November that followed similar cutbacks in September and October as the automaker felt the bite of the pandemic and global microchip shortage.
This is exactly why I sold my taco... :fullretard: shortage with people saying things "will never be normal again, never sell the tacoma because omg you won't ever find another"

Give me a FKing break.
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max225 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:38 pm
Tarspin wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:33 pm

Thanks Chris, I was trying to spit that out with the assumption they have a system for keeping inventory output aligned with orders. They don't fill parking lots just to make their build quotas.
Yea it is quite interesting because considering they are somewhere in the top 2, as far as world's biggest car markers are concerned. They are certainly doing things VERY differently from all other oems. Which is a bit surprising.

Also an interesting factoid. Toyota is going to produce MORE cars in December 21 than they ever have.

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-sup ... d-cutbacks
Global production will reach 800,000 units in December, up from 760,000 units the same time last year as the company was racing to recoup output from the pandemic slowdown.
Toyota said all 14 plants and 28 production lines in Japan will be "operating normally" for the first time since May.
Toyota is coming off a production cut in November that followed similar cutbacks in September and October as the automaker felt the bite of the pandemic and global microchip shortage.
This is exactly why I sold my taco... :fullretard: shortage with people saying things "will never be normal again, never sell the tacoma because omg you won't ever find another"

Give me a FKing break.
We will see how long it takes them to deliver the backlog of orders. I still think even at full capacity it will take months to normalize. Not to say that mark ups on non special cars will stick around.

Toyotas are still the go to brand for all things bulletproof and/or fuel efficient, and like me there are a lot of plebs who don't want to :troywax: at the pump. As prices at the pump go up so will demand for their basic bitch cars, at least here in Ontario.

You made the right move, the Taco you had was really nice, but it wouldn't go over MSRP for much longer, especially if you actually kept driving it.
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max225 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:38 pm
Tarspin wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:33 pm

Thanks Chris, I was trying to spit that out with the assumption they have a system for keeping inventory output aligned with orders. They don't fill parking lots just to make their build quotas.
Yea it is quite interesting because considering they are somewhere in the top 2, as far as world's biggest car markers are concerned. They are certainly doing things VERY differently from all other oems. Which is a bit surprising.

Also an interesting factoid. Toyota is going to produce MORE cars in December 21 than they ever have.

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-sup ... d-cutbacks
Global production will reach 800,000 units in December, up from 760,000 units the same time last year as the company was racing to recoup output from the pandemic slowdown.
Toyota said all 14 plants and 28 production lines in Japan will be "operating normally" for the first time since May.
Toyota is coming off a production cut in November that followed similar cutbacks in September and October as the automaker felt the bite of the pandemic and global microchip shortage.
This is exactly why I sold my taco... :fullretard: shortage with people saying things "will never be normal again, never sell the tacoma because omg you won't ever find another"

Give me a FKing break.
Toyota has focused on reliability and efficiency above all else. And that's not just the products themselves, but the entire supply chain. People :sass: about not being able to custom order a vehicle exactly, but at the end of the day, it's the exact reason why their products are so good and the supply chain doesn't fail like it does for others.

I used to do feature forecasting for vehicles, and it was STRESSFUL. If you get it wrong and the demand ends up being way higher, then it's a scramble to find more capacity because orders are knocking down the door to be filled. This happens MONTHLY So the supply chain gets stressed and vehicle quality can suffer, not to mention inventory doesn't match demand. Get it wrong so that you build too much, and suppliers are asking you for money to pay for under utilized tooling and warehousing, and it's just as much of a nightmare.

Toyota says fuck all that and just builds what they believe is right for the markets and they do so with restraint. They're clearly more OK with undersupply than over, which helps with profitability and residual for the customer. It also means a more stable supply chain and customers seem to just deal with buying what's available. They reduce the number of options to reduce the chances of pissing off a customer looking for a certain feature because most vehicles are built the same way.

They then layer in excellent customer service (sales and service) with very reliable products that aren't necessarily the most luxurious, but not BAD, and it's a recipe for success.
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Image

Check this out the bronco is the 2nd most produced product Ford outside of pickup trucks and the explorer in November.

More than 10k made in November !
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max225 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:33 pm Image

Check this out the bronco is the 2nd most produced product Ford outside of pickup trucks and the explorer in November.

More than 10k made in November !
:impressive:
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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/toyo ... 47846.html

Toyota saying record build coming in January
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max225 wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:52 pm https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/toyo ... 47846.html

Toyota saying record build coming in January
Yep, make them moves now. Inventory is gonna get better quick.
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Had a small gathering with 4 friends last night, 2 couples. These aren't car people by any stretch, but we were talking about my new job which led to car dealers which lead to both couples are not only aware of Carvana, but selling their current cars to them for new things they ordered, just like I did.

Both are lease vehicles, but they bought them out to sell to Carvana. One couple is replacing an Alfa SUV with a Mach-E, the other is replacing a Cherokee Trailhawk :disgust: with a Bronco :notbad: .

Both solid moves for sure, but I was shocked by the Carvana utilization. That company is single handedly destroying the used car market. The Cherokee dude got quotes from every online retailer and Carvana beat every offer by at least $5k. It makes zero sense, especially for a car with so little demand that Stellanus stopped producing new ones. But the general consensus was to make the money while we can.
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Yea they are completely “disrupting” everything used that’s 0-5 years old. Just like offering a $70 airport ride for $9 like uber did back in 2013
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Detroit wrote:Had a small gathering with 4 friends last night, 2 couples. These aren't car people by any stretch, but we were talking about my new job which led to car dealers which lead to both couples are not only aware of Carvana, but selling their current cars to them for new things they ordered, just like I did.

Both are lease vehicles, but they bought them out to sell to Carvana. One couple is replacing an Alfa SUV with a Mach-E, the other is replacing a Cherokee Trailhawk :disgust: with a Bronco :notbad: .

Both solid moves for sure, but I was shocked by the Carvana utilization. That company is single handedly destroying the used car market. The Cherokee dude got quotes from every online retailer and Carvana beat every offer by at least $5k. It makes zero sense, especially for a car with so little demand that Stellanus stopped producing new ones. But the general consensus was to make the money while we can.
THs are in high demand, and they have a new one for 2022 based on the new GC. :iono: it took us months to find one we liked.

edit: i assumed you meant the GC not the cherokee. idk about the un-grand pleb version
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rockchops wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:42 am
Detroit wrote:Had a small gathering with 4 friends last night, 2 couples. These aren't car people by any stretch, but we were talking about my new job which led to car dealers which lead to both couples are not only aware of Carvana, but selling their current cars to them for new things they ordered, just like I did.

Both are lease vehicles, but they bought them out to sell to Carvana. One couple is replacing an Alfa SUV with a Mach-E, the other is replacing a Cherokee Trailhawk :disgust: with a Bronco :notbad: .

Both solid moves for sure, but I was shocked by the Carvana utilization. That company is single handedly destroying the used car market. The Cherokee dude got quotes from every online retailer and Carvana beat every offer by at least $5k. It makes zero sense, especially for a car with so little demand that Stellanus stopped producing new ones. But the general consensus was to make the money while we can.
THs are in high demand, and they have a new one for 2022 based on the new GC. :iono: it took us months to find one we liked.

edit: i assumed you meant the GC not the cherokee. idk about the un-grand pleb version
Yea, the pleb version. WKs continue to sell well, the WL will continue to I'm sure.
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What doesn’t “sell well” at this point in time.
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max225 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:39 pm What doesn’t “sell well” at this point in time.
No idea, but Toyota is releasing an EV FJ
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Tarspin wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:48 pm
max225 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:39 pm What doesn’t “sell well” at this point in time.
No idea, but Toyota is releasing an EV FJ
Yea I’ll believe it when I see it. There is a recent trend to show “concept” cars that either never make it into production or take 5+ years to hit the market. It’s super :disgust:

Ex cybertruk ? Where is it ?
Where is the rivian ?
Where is the lucid ?
Where is the Nikola ?
Etc etc these have been around for years
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I will be on a pre order list within 60 seconds of announcement of a real “4th gen “ taco that’s an EV. 18 mpg doesn’t cut it in Cali
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max225 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:47 pm I will be on a pre order list within 60 seconds of announcement of a real “4th gen “ taco that’s an EV. 18 mpg doesn’t cut it in Cali
The tribe opened a new 20 pump station down the road that always undercuts Costco by a couple of cents while offering zero ethanol fuel. It a nice finger in the dike.
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Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
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