Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

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razr390
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I’d rock a minivan. :tits: mom visited with her siblings and had a Chrysler Pacifica rental and it was genuinely :notbad:

Unless you want a specific performance/function/form aspect from a car, a minivan is truly the best bang for buck in terms of utilitarian space and purpose.
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Desertbreh wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
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My wife is a hard NO on the van life. When we were looking to replace the Rav, the dealer we bought the Traverse from had a used Pacifica on the lot. Fully loaded, leather, black, sun roof, DVD player for the back seats, and only 22k miles for like $24k OTD. She humored me in looking at it, but looked at me and said: "You make us get this, and I'll be driving the truck and you can drive this then." and walked away with our salesman to go get in the Traverse.

She likes the doors and practicality of them, HATES literally everything else about them, including the stigma that comes with them.
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Devilchrono wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:52 pm My wife is a hard NO on the van life. When we were looking to replace the Rav, the dealer we bought the Traverse from had a used Pacifica on the lot. Fully loaded, leather, black, sun roof, DVD player for the back seats, and only 22k miles for like $24k OTD. She humored me in looking at it, but looked at me and said: "You make us get this, and I'll be driving the truck and you can drive this then." and walked away with our salesman to go get in the Traverse.

She likes the doors and practicality of them, HATES literally everything else about them, including the stigma that comes with them.
:lolol:

"And then she whipped out a :dedong: that was bigger than mine!"

Yeah, I love the functionality of a minivan, but fuuuuuuck are they lame. Sorry, not sorry.
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Also, I see a LOT of Teslas here in NJ. Lots of Model 3s and a lot more Model Ys lately.

The biggest thing is infrastructure. Nobody can agree on a connector standard, and fast charging isn't widespread enough yet.

The wife would be a perfect candidate for an electric car if and when "fun" electric things with decent range exist for a bit less money. We're almost there.
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Zillon wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:35 pm
Devilchrono wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:52 pm My wife is a hard NO on the van life. When we were looking to replace the Rav, the dealer we bought the Traverse from had a used Pacifica on the lot. Fully loaded, leather, black, sun roof, DVD player for the back seats, and only 22k miles for like $24k OTD. She humored me in looking at it, but looked at me and said: "You make us get this, and I'll be driving the truck and you can drive this then." and walked away with our salesman to go get in the Traverse.

She likes the doors and practicality of them, HATES literally everything else about them, including the stigma that comes with them.
:lolol:

"And then she whipped out a :dedong: that was bigger than mine!"

Yeah, I love the functionality of a minivan, but fuuuuuuck are they lame. Sorry, not sorry.
I knew what conversation was going to happen real quick if I pushed it: "I hate driving the truck and refuse to drive that van, lets trade the truck in while it's still got a lot of value and get me an SUV like I wanted."

So, avoiding a stupid fight and making sure she has something that she's more than happy with driving on a daily was more important to me. Next is a larger truck, especially since we have a 2nd kiddo on the way now and the MS cab, even in crew form, is gonna get real tight real quick.
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I too, would rock a minivan. My commute offers very little in the way of fun driving, and I love the utility. Thankfully we don't need it because my wife hates them enough to likely make me drive it.

I'm over 40, and have ZF to give about stigma anymore.

MVs have a lot of tech and moving parts, I'd get as reliable of a product as I could afford, Sienna AWD, add drop down TV and portable wifi, plus wipe wipeable seats in a light interior. :jimp:
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There are two Odysseys here locally I'm hoping to check out today or tomorrow. Both are 14-17 models, so they get the updated 6 speed trans and the crash structures designed to pass the narrow offset test, but none of the new tech bullshit found in the 18+ models. Both are sub-80k so I'll have to do the timing belt around 100k, but at least I will know it's been done. I'll do the VCM eliminator to keep it from munching spark plugs every few thousand miles at higher miles and drive off into the suburban-hell dad lyfe sunset.
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razr390 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:34 pm I’d rock a minivan. :tits: mom visited with her siblings and had a Chrysler Pacifica rental and it was genuinely :notbad:

Unless you want a specific performance/function/form aspect from a car, a minivan is truly the best bang for buck in terms of utilitarian space and purpose.
When I sold my old spacers, the guy I sold it to daily's a Pacifica (with the vacuum) and we had a nice chat. Also told me how happy he was and his R was his weekend toy.

As for vans, even though the sienna and oddysey is :nice: I'd totally rock this in my fleet, especially for roadtrips.
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New bronco is being made at 150 cars per shift… expected to ramp up as of yesterday


Window stickers are out ! 17/17 mpg rating el oh El

Image
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max225 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:28 pm New bronco is being made at 150 cars per shift… expected to ramp up as of yesterday


Window stickers are out ! 17/17 mpg rating el oh El

Image
Woa! That must be one on 35's? That's...not great.

The question is, how true to real life is it? None of the FCA products I've had come close to label MPG. My GM products tended to meet or beat the label.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:32 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:28 pm New bronco is being made at 150 cars per shift… expected to ramp up as of yesterday


Window stickers are out ! 17/17 mpg rating el oh El

Image
Woa! That must be one on 35's? That's...not great.

The question is, how true to real life is it? None of the FCA products I've had come close to label MPG. My GM products tended to meet or beat the label.
That was launch edition on 35s I believe. Big cars+tires=shitty mpg. Nothing surprising here.

I find it funny that some expect something better in 2021/22 than prior. There really hasn't been any improvement in MPG since the 90s. Tahoe got 15mpg then and gets 15mpg now. Granted it may be bigger a more "luxurious" but the general rule of thumb still applies for most things.
15 trucks/big suvs
20 mid size trucks/suvs with some power
25 for baby dick suvs/cuvs
30-40 for various "hybrid" monsters.
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max225 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:02 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:32 pm
Woa! That must be one on 35's? That's...not great.

The question is, how true to real life is it? None of the FCA products I've had come close to label MPG. My GM products tended to meet or beat the label.
That was launch edition on 35s I believe. Big cars+tires=shitty mpg. Nothing surprising here.

I find it funny that some expect something better in 2021/22 than prior. There really hasn't been any improvement in MPG since the 90s. Tahoe got 15mpg then and gets 15mpg now. Granted it may be bigger a more "luxurious" but the general rule of thumb still applies for most things.
15 trucks/big suvs
20 mid size trucks/suvs with some power
25 for baby dick suvs/cuvs
30-40 for various "hybrid" monsters.
My 2016 Silverado consistently impressed with fuel economy. That thing had no problem reaching low-to-mid 20's on the highway, which for a truck that size was just remarkable. That truck must have been an anomaly because everything else I've had seems to support exactly what you've noticed. The CT is the worst, it can't crack 18mpg nomatter what I do, and it has the "fuel economy" gears that according to the monroney should get 24 hwy and 19 city. :lolol: nowhere even close IRL.

Mass and aero have more to do with FE than anything else. Which is why things kind of get stuck in the same ranges.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/d/ ... 94921.html

There are some :dill: s out there … seems like a decent way to spend some cash.
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max225 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:28 pm https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/d/ ... 94921.html

There are some :dill: s out there … seems like a decent way to spend some cash.
I prefer the looks of the Z3, personally.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:15 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:02 pm

That was launch edition on 35s I believe. Big cars+tires=shitty mpg. Nothing surprising here.

I find it funny that some expect something better in 2021/22 than prior. There really hasn't been any improvement in MPG since the 90s. Tahoe got 15mpg then and gets 15mpg now. Granted it may be bigger a more "luxurious" but the general rule of thumb still applies for most things.
15 trucks/big suvs
20 mid size trucks/suvs with some power
25 for baby dick suvs/cuvs
30-40 for various "hybrid" monsters.
My 2016 Silverado consistently impressed with fuel economy. That thing had no problem reaching low-to-mid 20's on the highway, which for a truck that size was just remarkable. That truck must have been an anomaly because everything else I've had seems to support exactly what you've noticed. The CT is the worst, it can't crack 18mpg nomatter what I do, and it has the "fuel economy" gears that according to the monroney should get 24 hwy and 19 city. :lolol: nowhere even close IRL.

Mass and aero have more to do with FE than anything else. Which is why things kind of get stuck in the same ranges.
Yeah, they make the powertrain more efficient, but then offset it by making the vehicle bigger and heavier. It would be interesting to see GM put a current 5.3/10 speed in a GMT-400 and see what kind of EPA rating it would get.

It will never happen, but you know, it would be interesting for :science:.
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I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:00 pm I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).
I bet it'll be just as loud as a Wrangler and get the same gas mileage or worse. The only better element would be the drive with IFS. I'm more interested in the Defender, personally...but yea reliability is :nope:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:06 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:00 pm I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).
I bet it'll be just as loud as a Wrangler and get the same gas mileage or worse. The only better element would be the drive with IFS. I'm more interested in the Defender, personally...but yea reliability is :nope:
Yea except this thing has a really nice motors in it... even the base 2.3 is better than any of the FCA motors short of the 6.4.
I am curious about ride quality and noise levels for sure. The defender is VERY refined, but obviously doesn't have removable lego blocks. And with the defender I am completely stuck with the engine choices.... the base 2.slow seems too small (defender weighs 500lbs more than a wrangler) and the 3.slow seems far too complicated.

Yesterday I took the mini for a spin and was reminded that motors matter. The taco can't pass anyone without dropping a gear or 2, and is lethargic on the freeway. The mini goes 70-90 in 6th gear in seconds.
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Shitty upper dash... seems like only issue I have seen with it... and the ugly number pad. Pricing seems decent also.

Wrangler incentive going to hit 10k next year for sure. Upper end pressures from Defender... all around pressure from bronco across everything else. I am :notsure: what the Wrangler does better other than perhaps long term reliability and aftermarket (for now).
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:00 pm I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).
The whole post Covid economy is a mad mad mad world of inflation. Gas is $4-$5 (in CA) but we are offering new vehicles that in all likelihood get less than 15 mpg. I went to a local restaurant....not high end but pretty nice. New menu has no prices. You have to touch the item electronically to reveal the price. $21.50 for a club sandwich.....it was suggested that you pair that with a $25 glass of wine? I walked out.
Had my first McDoe in 2.5 years and it will likely be my last. It was like $25 for two people. Are you guys all getting 40% raises?
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Desertbreh wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:43 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:00 pm I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).
The whole post Covid economy is a mad mad mad world of inflation. Gas is $4-$5 (in CA) but we are offering new vehicles that in all likelihood get less than 15 mpg. I went to a local restaurant....not high end but pretty nice. New menu has no prices. You have to touch the item electronically to reveal the price. $21.50 for a club sandwich.....it was suggested that you pair that with a $25 glass of wine? I walked out.
Had my first McDoe in 2.5 years and it will likely be my last. It was like $25 for two people. Are you guys all getting 40% raises?
3.5% this year my man. But you gotta remember that some people live at like 10-25% of their income. :yikes:

Did some :math: today...

Commuting 3x a week to work + regular driving will cost me around $320 a month in the taco... and $250 a month in the Mini... $320 a month is pretty cheap still IMO even at $5. (15k miles a year @18mpg)


speaking of restaurants... I mean they are the epitome of inflation at the moment. Nearly fully closed for 1 year in cali... everyone flush with cash ... easiest "experience" one can partake in. Can't wait for Hawaii hotels to cross into 4 figures.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wolfgang ... 42777.html
“People get paid really well,” Puck said. “Still, it's difficult to find people to work. At Chinois in Santa Monica it's the same thing. I cannot open for lunchtime. Or even at Spago in Beverly Hills, you know, where people, waiters, make $120,000 a year. But I cannot find them.”
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max225 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:46 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:43 pm

The whole post Covid economy is a mad mad mad world of inflation. Gas is $4-$5 (in CA) but we are offering new vehicles that in all likelihood get less than 15 mpg. I went to a local restaurant....not high end but pretty nice. New menu has no prices. You have to touch the item electronically to reveal the price. $21.50 for a club sandwich.....it was suggested that you pair that with a $25 glass of wine? I walked out.
Had my first McDoe in 2.5 years and it will likely be my last. It was like $25 for two people. Are you guys all getting 40% raises?
3.5% this year my man. But you gotta remember that some people live at like 10-25% of their income. :yikes:

Did some :math: today...

Commuting 3x a week to work + regular driving will cost me around $320 a month in the taco... and $250 a month in the Mini... $320 a month is pretty cheap still IMO even at $5. (15k miles a year @18mpg)


speaking of restaurants... I mean they are the epitome of inflation at the moment. Nearly fully closed for 1 year in cali... everyone flush with cash ... easiest "experience" one can partake in. Can't wait for Hawaii hotels to cross into 4 figures.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wolfgang ... 42777.html
“People get paid really well,” Puck said. “Still, it's difficult to find people to work. At Chinois in Santa Monica it's the same thing. I cannot open for lunchtime. Or even at Spago in Beverly Hills, you know, where people, waiters, make $120,000 a year. But I cannot find them.”
I feel that some prices are just increased material costs (beef, lumber) and some people are just emerging from this trying to see how much gouging they can get away with.
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Desertbreh wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:53 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:46 pm

3.5% this year my man. But you gotta remember that some people live at like 10-25% of their income. :yikes:

Did some :math: today...

Commuting 3x a week to work + regular driving will cost me around $320 a month in the taco... and $250 a month in the Mini... $320 a month is pretty cheap still IMO even at $5. (15k miles a year @18mpg)


speaking of restaurants... I mean they are the epitome of inflation at the moment. Nearly fully closed for 1 year in cali... everyone flush with cash ... easiest "experience" one can partake in. Can't wait for Hawaii hotels to cross into 4 figures.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wolfgang ... 42777.html

I feel that some prices are just increased material costs (beef, lumber) and some people are just emerging from this trying to see how much gouging they can get away with.
If car :dillerman: are any indication. A LOT. I don't understand why everyone all the sudden wants/needs cars more so than ever. Nothing has changed.
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I am mildly considering offing the Mini for a 19+ BMW i3 to commute in. Solar is going in Wednesday and It should make me "immune" to gas prices at that point. I don't think I can comfortably make a 100 mile round trip commute in the mini. :yikes:
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Detroit wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:06 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:00 pm I am still mildly interested in the Bronco. It is like a defender but without the defender issues like reliability etc... Not that ford is that great but it has got to be better than LR.

The various models are a bit confusing... but Ideally I'd like one without the "Sasquash" 35" mall flex tires... I don't think it would fit vertically in my garage (door).
I bet it'll be just as loud as a Wrangler and get the same gas mileage or worse. The only better element would be the drive with IFS. I'm more interested in the Defender, personally...but yea reliability is :nope:
Looks like the 2.3 Bronco is rated at 20 city/22 highway/21 combined, auto or manual. Not great, but not terrible. The biggest thing with the Ecoboost trucks is that the real world results always seem to be much lower than the EPA figures, and there isn't much of an indication that the Bronco can ~err~ buck that trend.
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