max225 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:14 pmSeems like they just go back to leading the country after 3 days in the hospital feeling better than 20 years ago.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:45 am
It's not bad at all for 35 yoa guys who are in shape, it's a thing if you're an obese 74 year old. Might even put you in the hospital.
OT XXX: COVID Off Topic
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When you say you question “how bad it really is,” what do you mean by that?
Directed to everyone cause I think I saw a few people echo this sentiment.
Directed to everyone cause I think I saw a few people echo this sentiment.
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What is the actual non political non BIASED, TRUE nature of this disease, compared to the risk you are exposed to daily in the 1000s of other things happening.Calvinball wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:08 am When you say you question “how bad it really is,” what do you mean by that?
Directed to everyone cause I think I saw a few people echo this sentiment.
max225 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:27 amWhat is the actual non political non BIASED, TRUE nature of this disease, compared to the risk you are exposed to daily in the 1000s of other things happening.Calvinball wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:08 am When you say you question “how bad it really is,” what do you mean by that?
Directed to everyone cause I think I saw a few people echo this sentiment.
I am not an expert... but I question a lot of data here. 210K people have died from the 'VID. That seems to be a fact.
How many of those people were on the verge of death and would've died this year anyway/were already in extremely poor health when they contracted?
How many people have actually had the 'VID? Based on a lot of articles and things, millions of people have had this and have no idea they did, so what is the actual death rate? Is it really higher than the flu/other viruses?
Is this really more easily contracted than the flu? Millions get the flu every year despite us having vaccinations for it.
The media outlets all have an angle, ESPECIALLY given it's voting season. I mean, half of last night's debate was just the two people talking about how shitty the others handled COVID, very few facts are offered.
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Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
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People in states that matter.
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It's what happens when the popular vote doesn't elect the president ... 5 people in bumfuck no where will decide the next 4 years and will be catered to.troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:51 pmPeople in states that matter.max225 wrote:
Don't forget fracking...
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max225 wrote:It's what happens when the popular vote doesn't elect the president ... 5 people in bumfuck no where will decide the next 4 years and will be catered to.
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I don't think we'll ever know the real truth...it's impossible at this point. And there's still so much to learn about it.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:49 pm
I am not an expert... but I question a lot of data here. 210K people have died from the 'VID. That seems to be a fact.
How many of those people were on the verge of death and would've died this year anyway/were already in extremely poor health when they contracted?
How many people have actually had the 'VID? Based on a lot of articles and things, millions of people have had this and have no idea they did, so what is the actual death rate? Is it really higher than the flu/other viruses?
Is this really more easily contracted than the flu? Millions get the flu every year despite us having vaccinations for it.
But I will say this...the one direct person I know who's died from it was my mom's cousin. Great dude, kind, gentle, sad loss to humanity IMO. But to my mom's own omission, he "never went to the doctor because he didn't trust them". Well shit, then who knows what sort of issues he had when he contracted the virus. He had just turned 70, and without regular health screenings, he could have been on the way out from a myriad of things nobody knew about.
If anything, I wish we as Americans would use this as an opportunity to come together about general health practices. Go get an annual physical, go get a flu shot, if we all got healthier, the cost of insurance should come down. I get my deductible paid for into my HSA every year just by going to get my physical. There's people I work with that don't WHY? It's the worst among young people because we assume we're invincible. Well, a few years ago when my blood tests came back with high cholesterol and it was determined because my body produces too much, not diet related, my dr suggested I go on medication to correct it while I'm young. Said I'll likely be able to go off the pills eventually in combination with weight loss and I might be able to prevent a ton of issues later in life by being proactive now. Hell yes.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I think it's fair to question things and be skeptical - as humans we should do that with nearly everything.Calvinball wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:08 am When you say you question “how bad it really is,” what do you mean by that?
Directed to everyone cause I think I saw a few people echo this sentiment.
Personally, it's bad enough to take reasonable action - masks, distancing, outside, etc. Would it be bad for me? Unlikely. However, it's my responsibility to limit potential exposure to others. Wearing a mask is NBD to me, Zoom meetings suck, and being socially isolating is tough to with at times.
With regards to the flu, Covid is likely significantly more contagious and has a higher hospitalization rate. Both of those are concerning to front line workers as well as those who might need treatments for ailments and injuries other than Covid. And yes, Covid is likely more deadly, however, the "how deadly is it really" debate takes away from the contagion and hospitalization rates IMO. And since many on this forum is driven by the almighty dollar - remember the financial impact on people who do end up in the hospital for this..
As the only published author in a well-known motorcycle publication in the room...
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Thanks for the answer, I really was wondering what that bigger question really meant.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:49 pm
I am not an expert... but I question a lot of data here. 210K people have died from the 'VID. That seems to be a fact.
How many of those people were on the verge of death and would've died this year anyway/were already in extremely poor health when they contracted?
How many people have actually had the 'VID? Based on a lot of articles and things, millions of people have had this and have no idea they did, so what is the actual death rate? Is it really higher than the flu/other viruses?
Is this really more easily contracted than the flu? Millions get the flu every year despite us having vaccinations for it.
How many people have had it? Probably more than the official numbers. We also don’t know for sure that having had it results in any immunity.
I think focusing on the “death rate” is looking in the wrong direction. Did a lot of people who died have other things going on? Certainly! So do most people who die from any other illness. I see a lot of comparisons to the flu by people who want this thing to be less serious than it is. If you look at the people who die “from the flu” they are often going to have other conditions/complications as well, I don’t have numbers but I bet they look very similar for both illnesses. Again, to me, not the most important piece to be considering, for reasons I’ll outline.
Is it more easily contracted than the flu? It seems to be, and there are tons of variables that go into that including mutations/strain differences for both illnesses. One strain of Covid is ten times better at binding to ACE2 receptors, for example, than others, meaning it is much more likely to make you sick. Again though, asking if it’s easier or harder to “contract” isn’t the right question, to me. We know it is highly contagious, trying to rank it against the flu isn’t the important part.
The important part(s) are the following:
It is very contagious. The dangerous part is that viral load has been found to be around the same in people who are asymptomatic vs symptomatic, so that plus the longer period of time between when someone contracts Covid19 and when they show symptoms (if they ever do) means there is a much higher possibility for people to spread it without knowing they have it.
Treatment has improved, but there is still no identified highly effective treatment or prevention other than masks/etc. From a clinical standpoint, what is scary about it is how fast someone can spiral. We’re talking just a matter of hours from being able to walk in to the ER to being on a vent. Also, unlike the flu, this thing lingers and symptoms can go up and down over many weeks, sometimes even months, often requiring multiple stunts at the hospital.
Those two pieces, that are known, mean that covid19 is still very much capable of overwhelming healthcare systems and killing lots of people. Maybe not us on this forum, we’re all generally younger and healthy, but that’s another issue. Because of the above you can’t think about this thing individually, you need to look at it from a population health perspective. The more people with the “I’m young, healthy, and low risk so I’m just going to do my thing” means a higher chance of community spread that may get to people who are higher risk.
Also, while the numbers are in the favor of the younger/healthier, that’s no sure thing. I’ve worked with plenty of folks in those “safe” categories who got pretty fucked up by this thing. It isn’t as likely, but it can happen.
Ok, diatribe over.
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Thanks for this!Calvinball wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:13 amThanks for the answer, I really was wondering what that bigger question really meant.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:49 pm
I am not an expert... but I question a lot of data here. 210K people have died from the 'VID. That seems to be a fact.
How many of those people were on the verge of death and would've died this year anyway/were already in extremely poor health when they contracted?
How many people have actually had the 'VID? Based on a lot of articles and things, millions of people have had this and have no idea they did, so what is the actual death rate? Is it really higher than the flu/other viruses?
Is this really more easily contracted than the flu? Millions get the flu every year despite us having vaccinations for it.
How many people have had it? Probably more than the official numbers. We also don’t know for sure that having had it results in any immunity.
I think focusing on the “death rate” is looking in the wrong direction. Did a lot of people who died have other things going on? Certainly! So do most people who die from any other illness. I see a lot of comparisons to the flu by people who want this thing to be less serious than it is. If you look at the people who die “from the flu” they are often going to have other conditions/complications as well, I don’t have numbers but I bet they look very similar for both illnesses. Again, to me, not the most important piece to be considering, for reasons I’ll outline.
Is it more easily contracted than the flu? It seems to be, and there are tons of variables that go into that including mutations/strain differences for both illnesses. One strain of Covid is ten times better at binding to ACE2 receptors, for example, than others, meaning it is much more likely to make you sick. Again though, asking if it’s easier or harder to “contract” isn’t the right question, to me. We know it is highly contagious, trying to rank it against the flu isn’t the important part.
The important part(s) are the following:
It is very contagious. The dangerous part is that viral load has been found to be around the same in people who are asymptomatic vs symptomatic, so that plus the longer period of time between when someone contracts Covid19 and when they show symptoms (if they ever do) means there is a much higher possibility for people to spread it without knowing they have it.
Treatment has improved, but there is still no identified highly effective treatment or prevention other than masks/etc. From a clinical standpoint, what is scary about it is how fast someone can spiral. We’re talking just a matter of hours from being able to walk in to the ER to being on a vent. Also, unlike the flu, this thing lingers and symptoms can go up and down over many weeks, sometimes even months, often requiring multiple stunts at the hospital.
Those two pieces, that are known, mean that covid19 is still very much capable of overwhelming healthcare systems and killing lots of people. Maybe not us on this forum, we’re all generally younger and healthy, but that’s another issue. Because of the above you can’t think about this thing individually, you need to look at it from a population health perspective. The more people with the “I’m young, healthy, and low risk so I’m just going to do my thing” means a higher chance of community spread that may get to people who are higher risk.
Also, while the numbers are in the favor of the younger/healthier, that’s no sure thing. I’ve worked with plenty of folks in those “safe” categories who got pretty fucked up by this thing. It isn’t as likely, but it can happen.
Ok, diatribe over.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Totally agreed.Calvinball wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:13 amThanks for the answer, I really was wondering what that bigger question really meant.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:49 pm
I am not an expert... but I question a lot of data here. 210K people have died from the 'VID. That seems to be a fact.
How many of those people were on the verge of death and would've died this year anyway/were already in extremely poor health when they contracted?
How many people have actually had the 'VID? Based on a lot of articles and things, millions of people have had this and have no idea they did, so what is the actual death rate? Is it really higher than the flu/other viruses?
Is this really more easily contracted than the flu? Millions get the flu every year despite us having vaccinations for it.
How many people have had it? Probably more than the official numbers. We also don’t know for sure that having had it results in any immunity.
I think focusing on the “death rate” is looking in the wrong direction. Did a lot of people who died have other things going on? Certainly! So do most people who die from any other illness. I see a lot of comparisons to the flu by people who want this thing to be less serious than it is. If you look at the people who die “from the flu” they are often going to have other conditions/complications as well, I don’t have numbers but I bet they look very similar for both illnesses. Again, to me, not the most important piece to be considering, for reasons I’ll outline.
Is it more easily contracted than the flu? It seems to be, and there are tons of variables that go into that including mutations/strain differences for both illnesses. One strain of Covid is ten times better at binding to ACE2 receptors, for example, than others, meaning it is much more likely to make you sick. Again though, asking if it’s easier or harder to “contract” isn’t the right question, to me. We know it is highly contagious, trying to rank it against the flu isn’t the important part.
The important part(s) are the following:
It is very contagious. The dangerous part is that viral load has been found to be around the same in people who are asymptomatic vs symptomatic, so that plus the longer period of time between when someone contracts Covid19 and when they show symptoms (if they ever do) means there is a much higher possibility for people to spread it without knowing they have it.
Treatment has improved, but there is still no identified highly effective treatment or prevention other than masks/etc. From a clinical standpoint, what is scary about it is how fast someone can spiral. We’re talking just a matter of hours from being able to walk in to the ER to being on a vent. Also, unlike the flu, this thing lingers and symptoms can go up and down over many weeks, sometimes even months, often requiring multiple stunts at the hospital.
Those two pieces, that are known, mean that covid19 is still very much capable of overwhelming healthcare systems and killing lots of people. Maybe not us on this forum, we’re all generally younger and healthy, but that’s another issue. Because of the above you can’t think about this thing individually, you need to look at it from a population health perspective. The more people with the “I’m young, healthy, and low risk so I’m just going to do my thing” means a higher chance of community spread that may get to people who are higher risk.
Also, while the numbers are in the favor of the younger/healthier, that’s no sure thing. I’ve worked with plenty of folks in those “safe” categories who got pretty fucked up by this thing. It isn’t as likely, but it can happen.
Ok, diatribe over.
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Correct Ron. Poundtown.
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