So I need to think about something positive right about now, it's back to snow and freezing rain every morning here in bloody May...
There's a decent chance that we escape this pandemic with a ticket to Freedomville, USA in the form of being allowed to work 100% remotely. That means moving out of New York. But the question then becomes: If we don't have to work locally, where should we live?
What places in the US are good for a couple of lower middle class white libtard atheists who are mostly into nice (warm) weather and good small local music/food/drink/arts options? I'd go somewhere like Marseille, France but that's not realistic. The closest thing to an international location that might not be completely impossible would be Puerto Rico, that could be neat at least for a few years.
We don't really want a cabin in the woods or a closet on Broadway, but there are a ton of options in between when local employment is not a factor. Join in Brosevile? Haunt in Reno? Get jacked with in SD? Drain the swamp in NAWLINS? Become Florida Man? Buy a in Austin? Move back to Kentucky? Get wicked with the Waltons in Fayetteville? Join NASCAR in Charlotte? Join NASA in Huntsville? SWED in Portland?
Asheville seems kinda cool, never been there but everyone says it's great. Dunno if it would feel too boring/small/isolated after a year as it's almost a cabin in the woods with bars next door.
Super open-ended question with very few hard requirements makes it difficult for me to even begin to evaluate. We don't have any family considerations nor any experience living or even really visiting any of these places and there are simply far too many choices to actually test them out for ourselves. What we do know is that we have HAD IT with Northern winters and 10k population towns in the middle of nowhere. Hit me with some thoughts.
Goldilocks Zone Brainstorming
- troyguitar
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96 today in beautiful southern california. But our politics are as dumb as the people are from florida.
i cannot do snow unless it is sparingly. A few inches in the winter if I was retired and had no place to go? The only place I would ever move to is arizona or somewhere without smog inspections. Some counties of arizona are like this if they are small enough. Such a great place to retire. However that secret has been out for a long time. Californians are flocking there, Texas, and Tennessee as fast as we can. Not all of arizona is Satan's asshole hot.
i cannot do snow unless it is sparingly. A few inches in the winter if I was retired and had no place to go? The only place I would ever move to is arizona or somewhere without smog inspections. Some counties of arizona are like this if they are small enough. Such a great place to retire. However that secret has been out for a long time. Californians are flocking there, Texas, and Tennessee as fast as we can. Not all of arizona is Satan's asshole hot.
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Puerto Rico is getting pretty bad. I know friends who are locals and have family there. Government is getting fractured and drug related crimes on the rise.
Florida is notbad. I think you would like Orlando. Young/tech smart people.
Texas is okay. Austin is getting super expensive and also super shitty. Lots of homelessness and drug related crimes.
Florida is notbad. I think you would like Orlando. Young/tech smart people.
Texas is okay. Austin is getting super expensive and also super shitty. Lots of homelessness and drug related crimes.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
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Honestly I know this is but Tennessee ain’t so bad. Truthfully I don’t know what the right answer is. However, you’ll tend to find that your first criteria interfere with your second. Most people who are liberal atheists tend to live in or close to high population density and also cost of living metro areas. Your best bet is to find an in between. I think you’d like Orlando, FL.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
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I don't think I could handle inland Florida plus theme parks, but the coasts seem interesting. Ft Myers, St Pete, Space Coast, hell maybe go small town St Augustine and pretend I'm in thSpain. how bad it really gets in the summer, I've been in 100F+humid weather before but not for weeks at a time. Jacksonville is less hot but I've heard nothing good about the place.
In TX I'd have to skip Austin's cost and traffic and look at something in the greater Dallas area. Lots of but also lots of music scene, apparently even Denton is yuge for muzak.
Portland might be OK. Tons of rain and gray but fairly mild temperatures year-round. Dunno.
TN seems hard to be excited about compared to NC but I haven't lived in either. Never been to any of these places for any length of time. Most places seem great on vacation. I had a fabulous time for a long weekend in Orange Beach, AL but would I want to live there?
In TX I'd have to skip Austin's cost and traffic and look at something in the greater Dallas area. Lots of but also lots of music scene, apparently even Denton is yuge for muzak.
Portland might be OK. Tons of rain and gray but fairly mild temperatures year-round. Dunno.
TN seems hard to be excited about compared to NC but I haven't lived in either. Never been to any of these places for any length of time. Most places seem great on vacation. I had a fabulous time for a long weekend in Orange Beach, AL but would I want to live there?
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All of the places you’ve mentioned are solid. None of them are going to magically make you happy.
I foresee myself somewhere in the southeast for at least as long as I’m able to work and possibly beyond. I’d add Greenville-Spartanburg area of SC to your search as well. It’s honestly where I thought we’d land if we moved to the SE on account of me (or possibly Charlotte area).
Every place is going to have their compromises, and everyone is going to proclaim theirs is the best.
Having spent a lot of time figuring out where I wanted to go after my time in S. indiana was done, I’d recommend picking a region that you think you might like. If you want to live in Appalachia for example, and also want warm(er) winters, start looking in the medium-sized cities in the SE - take a long weekend and take in the area - walk the neighborhoods, parks, etc and get a feel for things. Research the tax structure (income, property, and sales), the then start digging into employment options.
I was regional service manager for 6 years covering basically everything between Maryland to Maine. The company really wanted me to relocate into the territory, but after my first 3-6 months on the job and spending A LOT time in most of the medium and large cities in the area, I knew it wasn’t going to be a place that I wanted to be. Areas that I liked were too expensive, and the areas that I could’ve afforded were largely shitty.
I foresee myself somewhere in the southeast for at least as long as I’m able to work and possibly beyond. I’d add Greenville-Spartanburg area of SC to your search as well. It’s honestly where I thought we’d land if we moved to the SE on account of me (or possibly Charlotte area).
Every place is going to have their compromises, and everyone is going to proclaim theirs is the best.
Having spent a lot of time figuring out where I wanted to go after my time in S. indiana was done, I’d recommend picking a region that you think you might like. If you want to live in Appalachia for example, and also want warm(er) winters, start looking in the medium-sized cities in the SE - take a long weekend and take in the area - walk the neighborhoods, parks, etc and get a feel for things. Research the tax structure (income, property, and sales), the then start digging into employment options.
I was regional service manager for 6 years covering basically everything between Maryland to Maine. The company really wanted me to relocate into the territory, but after my first 3-6 months on the job and spending A LOT time in most of the medium and large cities in the area, I knew it wasn’t going to be a place that I wanted to be. Areas that I liked were too expensive, and the areas that I could’ve afforded were largely shitty.
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troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 1:26 am So I need to think about something positive right about now, it's back to snow and freezing rain every morning here in bloody May...
Ok, having looked into this....
Texas... Higer on the freedom scale but its HOT. so hot. meh. Houston sucks.
FL. HOT. swamps. Panhandle is ok but then you have hurricanes.
For that matter, all of the east coast from FL to Maine can have a hurricane and level you.
Appalachia has a lot going for it. Seasons, but winters are manageable. Good culture. COL is generally low. Not a lot of natural disaster risk... its green so fire risk is minimal, earthquakes are not really a thing, hurricanes fizzle out and are just bad thunderstorms, flooding isn't really a thing unless a dam breaks and you live downstream on that exact river, and close.
Not sure about other states but TN has no income tax on wages (but they do on capital gains). Also property tax all things equal is about 2/3s of LA. Sales tax is nearly 10% and that sucks
I never really looked into Alabama, Georgia, and NC because there is not really any industry I can work for in those areas. Georgia has cheap gas and I feel like the taxes are prob low because of it.
A town outside of Asheville could do you right if NC's taxes are favorable to your situation.
I really don't know much about the west, other than its generally expensive, pretty, water will be a problem one day, and things get shaky from time to time.
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I don’t know anything about Puerto Rico, but Costa Rica could be sick if you want international. There were a lot of ex-Pats down there when I visited. Food was tasty and cheap. Don’t know what their weather looks like year-round, but I don’t imagine it’s ever terribad.
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Nashville seems like a pretty decent place to live, atleast closer to downtownrazr390 wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 2:15 am Honestly I know this is but Tennessee ain’t so bad. Truthfully I don’t know what the right answer is. However, you’ll tend to find that your first criteria interfere with your second. Most people who are liberal atheists tend to live in or close to high population density and also cost of living metro areas. Your best bet is to find an in between. I think you’d like Orlando, FL.
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Nashville is solid, but has gotten a bit too Hollywood-Vegasy for my preferences.MexicanYarisTK wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 10:20 amNashville seems like a pretty decent place to live, atleast closer to downtownrazr390 wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 2:15 am Honestly I know this is but Tennessee ain’t so bad. Truthfully I don’t know what the right answer is. However, you’ll tend to find that your first criteria interfere with your second. Most people who are liberal atheists tend to live in or close to high population density and also cost of living metro areas. Your best bet is to find an in between. I think you’d like Orlando, FL.
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I agree. Costa rica is pretty nice, San Jose has some really nice parts as well. Guanacaste is also pretty nice too and there are some areas that looks almost like switzerland like the architecture.SAWCE wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 10:11 am I don’t know anything about Puerto Rico, but Costa Rica could be sick if you want international. There were a lot of ex-Pats down there when I visited. Food was tasty and cheap. Don’t know what their weather looks like year-round, but I don’t imagine it’s ever terribad.
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Ive been to the southern part of downtown as well and it's pretty decent, downtown and the strip is basically like times sq of manhattan, bunch of good breweries and such, doesn't feel far off from DC metro. Before heading back home by car, i stopped by a covfefe shop to get cortada, I felt like im in a hipster part of chicago and doesn't feel remotely southern imo.4zilch wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 10:22 amNashville is solid, but has gotten a bit too Hollywood-Vegasy for my preferences.MexicanYarisTK wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 10:20 am
Nashville seems like a pretty decent place to live, atleast closer to downtown
Atlanta is also a good second option as well and close to some nice twisties
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I'd personally move west. Likely northern AZ in the Prescott to Flagstaff area.
Really curious what others have to say. I've never been to the Appalachia region, but it seems like there could be good stuff there. I really want to visit Asheville.
PR is 5/7 from the week we spent there. I could live on the southern, more arid side of the island no doubt.
Really curious what others have to say. I've never been to the Appalachia region, but it seems like there could be good stuff there. I really want to visit Asheville.
PR is 5/7 from the week we spent there. I could live on the southern, more arid side of the island no doubt.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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This is accurate. Neat neighborhoods and whatnot (East Nashville is fun), but not a place I'd want to live. Traffic suuuucccks. And definitely not "southern" - but neither or most of the major metropolitan areas in the south. Charleston and Savannah get high marks from me in terms of old south pace of life and hospitality. In Appalachia, I'd rank Knoxville and Greenville-Spartanburg pretty similarly.MexicanYarisTK wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 10:26 amIve been to the southern part of downtown as well and it's pretty decent, downtown and the strip is basically like times sq of manhattan, bunch of good breweries and such, doesn't feel far off from DC metro. Before heading back home by car, i stopped by a covfefe shop to get cortada, I felt like im in a hipster part of chicago and doesn't feel remotely southern imo.
Atlanta is also a good second option as well and close to some nice twisties
If I were ranking the big SE cities to live they'd go Charlotte > Raleigh/Durham >> Nashville >>>>>Atlanta. And if I had to pick a Florida city to through in there somewhere it'd probably be Jacksonville or maybe Tampa.
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So, I would advise against Asheville. It is a great place to go for vacation, but not to live. It's expensive and most of the draws involve (breweries and shit) or outdoor activities which you hate.
Greenville, as mentioned by Travis, is a fantastic option. It's a lot cheaper than Charlotte and kind of has the Asheville vibe while being significantly more of a "real town".
Having been all over, here's where I would live:
If money/family ties are a non issue: Orange County/San Diego/SoCal beach towns are beautiful and so much to do down there, mountain access, basically perfect weather. If you don't have to commute and have a lot of dough, they rule. THe Bay Area or anywhere on the California coast really, is fucking great. The nice thing with CA too is that there are lots of places with more of a smaller town feel in the greater metro area, like if you can live in Hermosa Beach or Santa Cruz, Carmel, Laguna Beach... and not really have to actually go to SF/LA daily, it's awesome. But you still have the city there for weekend shows and all of the cool things cities offer.
I also really like Seattle.
More reasonable costs:
Middle East Coast of FL is cheap, great weather, beautiful, and chill. THe summers... it rains a lot but in my experience, summers in Miami versus Charlotte aren't all that different. NYC summer aren't different either. The entire east coast is hot/humid in the summer.
Tuscon, AZ would be nice - weather milder than Phoenix, smaller and cheaper but still close to see music and stuff in Phoenix. I could do Nevada or UT as well, but I really like deserts.
Nashville is great but getting expensive. Charlotte - I've already talked about it plenty here, it's a nice place to live, but rather cultureless and getting more expensive. Atlanta... no.
Greenville, as mentioned by Travis, is a fantastic option. It's a lot cheaper than Charlotte and kind of has the Asheville vibe while being significantly more of a "real town".
Having been all over, here's where I would live:
If money/family ties are a non issue: Orange County/San Diego/SoCal beach towns are beautiful and so much to do down there, mountain access, basically perfect weather. If you don't have to commute and have a lot of dough, they rule. THe Bay Area or anywhere on the California coast really, is fucking great. The nice thing with CA too is that there are lots of places with more of a smaller town feel in the greater metro area, like if you can live in Hermosa Beach or Santa Cruz, Carmel, Laguna Beach... and not really have to actually go to SF/LA daily, it's awesome. But you still have the city there for weekend shows and all of the cool things cities offer.
I also really like Seattle.
More reasonable costs:
Middle East Coast of FL is cheap, great weather, beautiful, and chill. THe summers... it rains a lot but in my experience, summers in Miami versus Charlotte aren't all that different. NYC summer aren't different either. The entire east coast is hot/humid in the summer.
Tuscon, AZ would be nice - weather milder than Phoenix, smaller and cheaper but still close to see music and stuff in Phoenix. I could do Nevada or UT as well, but I really like deserts.
Nashville is great but getting expensive. Charlotte - I've already talked about it plenty here, it's a nice place to live, but rather cultureless and getting more expensive. Atlanta... no.
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I have info for you about Austin as now three of my closer friends relocated there. I would say it should be top of the list ... and especially over Calitroyguitar wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 3:18 am I don't think I could handle inland Florida plus theme parks, but the coasts seem interesting. Ft Myers, St Pete, Space Coast, hell maybe go small town St Augustine and pretend I'm in thSpain. how bad it really gets in the summer, I've been in 100F+humid weather before but not for weeks at a time. Jacksonville is less hot but I've heard nothing good about the place.
In TX I'd have to skip Austin's cost and traffic and look at something in the greater Dallas area. Lots of but also lots of music scene, apparently even Denton is yuge for muzak.
Portland might be OK. Tons of rain and gray but fairly mild temperatures year-round. Dunno.
TN seems hard to be excited about compared to NC but I haven't lived in either. Never been to any of these places for any length of time. Most places seem great on vacation. I had a fabulous time for a long weekend in Orange Beach, AL but would I want to live there?
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I agree on Asheville. Nice to visit. Horrible to live if you don't like the outdoors or artisan everything.D Griff wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 11:08 am So, I would advise against Asheville. It is a great place to go for vacation, but not to live. It's expensive and most of the draws involve (breweries and shit) or outdoor activities which you hate.
Greenville, as mentioned by Travis, is a fantastic option. It's a lot cheaper than Charlotte and kind of has the Asheville vibe while being significantly more of a "real town".
Having been all over, here's where I would live:
If money/family ties are a non issue: Orange County/San Diego/SoCal beach towns are beautiful and so much to do down there, mountain access, basically perfect weather. If you don't have to commute and have a lot of dough, they rule. THe Bay Area or anywhere on the California coast really, is fucking great. The nice thing with CA too is that there are lots of places with more of a smaller town feel in the greater metro area, like if you can live in Hermosa Beach or Santa Cruz, Carmel, Laguna Beach... and not really have to actually go to SF/LA daily, it's awesome. But you still have the city there for weekend shows and all of the cool things cities offer.
I also really like Seattle.
More reasonable costs:
Middle East Coast of FL is cheap, great weather, beautiful, and chill. THe summers... it rains a lot but in my experience, summers in Miami versus Charlotte aren't all that different. NYC summer aren't different either. The entire east coast is hot/humid in the summer.
Tuscon, AZ would be nice - weather milder than Phoenix, smaller and cheaper but still close to see music and stuff in Phoenix. I could do Nevada or UT as well, but I really like deserts.
Nashville is great but getting expensive. Charlotte - I've already talked about it plenty here, it's a nice place to live, but rather cultureless and getting more expensive. Atlanta... no.
- troyguitar
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Yeah Atlanta is 100% based on traffic alone. I time my drives through that place to occur between 10PM and 3AM. Somewhere further out like Athens might be cool, where you only need to deal with traffic when you choose to go to the big city.[user not found] wrote:I love Atlanta but the traffic is bad enough for me to say and I'd imagine I have a much higher tolerance than Troy.MexicanYarisTK wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 10:26 am Ive been to the southern part of downtown as well and it's pretty decent, bunch of good breweries and such, doesn't feel far off from DC metro. Before heading back home by car, i stopped by a covfefe shop to get cortada, I felt like im in a hipster part of chicago and doesn't feel remotely southern imo.
Atlanta is also a good second option as well and close to some nice twisties
I think that is probably the ideal setup, a medium-sized metropolitan-ish city <1 hr from a good large city for airport, hospitals, big concerts, etc.
Budget isn't really fixed, it depends on how much we like a place. I'd say <$3k/mo for a decent 2 bedroom rental, which is available almost anywhere even SF. I don't think we'd buy a place anywhere right now.
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In the weekend we spent there my main takeaway was that the highway was gridlock 24/7 so you must live in a downtown apartment. The weather and food were awesomemax225 wrote:I have info for you about Austin as now three of my closer friends relocated there. I would say it should be top of the list ... and especially over Calitroyguitar wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 3:18 am I don't think I could handle inland Florida plus theme parks, but the coasts seem interesting. Ft Myers, St Pete, Space Coast, hell maybe go small town St Augustine and pretend I'm in thSpain. how bad it really gets in the summer, I've been in 100F+humid weather before but not for weeks at a time. Jacksonville is less hot but I've heard nothing good about the place.
In TX I'd have to skip Austin's cost and traffic and look at something in the greater Dallas area. Lots of but also lots of music scene, apparently even Denton is yuge for muzak.
Portland might be OK. Tons of rain and gray but fairly mild temperatures year-round. Dunno.
TN seems hard to be excited about compared to NC but I haven't lived in either. Never been to any of these places for any length of time. Most places seem great on vacation. I had a fabulous time for a long weekend in Orange Beach, AL but would I want to live there?
What puts it at the top?
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FWIW we were reasonably happy in KY, I see no reason that we wouldn't be happy again in a better (warmer, sunnier, less rust) place like that. Ideally we'd have been closer to Louisville/Lexington but then the commute would have been too much. Without the commute, those 2 places are on the table though Louisville is starting to get pretty far into the rusty winters category.
I thought we'd hate KY. Turns out that weather is more important to me than I ever thought. It doesn't make sense because I don't spend much time outdoors, but it's true.
I thought we'd hate KY. Turns out that weather is more important to me than I ever thought. It doesn't make sense because I don't spend much time outdoors, but it's true.
Last edited by troyguitar on Thu May 07, 2020 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- troyguitar
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Hard to say for sure. Where we are now is the worst of all worlds. Cold and gray and wet and small and expensive is definitely a recipe for depression. How many of those factors need to change is unclear.[user not found] wrote:Is it weather or is it light (or both)? If it's light, Seattle might not work even though the weather is decent.troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 12:41 pm FWIW we were reasonably happy in KY, I see no reason that we wouldn't be happy again in a better (warmer, sunnier, less rust) place like that. Ideally we'd have been closer to Louisville/Lexington but then the commute would have been too much. Without the commute, those 2 places are on the table though Louisville is starting to get pretty far into the rusty winters category.
I thought we'd hate KY. Turns out that weather is more important to me than I ever thought. It doesn't make sense because I don't spend much time outdoors, but it's true.
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I have similar feels with the weather thing.troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 12:41 pm FWIW we were reasonably happy in KY, I see no reason that we wouldn't be happy again in a better (warmer, sunnier, less rust) place like that. Ideally we'd have been closer to Louisville/Lexington but then the commute would have been too much. Without the commute, those 2 places are on the table though Louisville is starting to get pretty far into the rusty winters category.
I thought we'd hate KY. Turns out that weather is more important to me than I ever thought. It doesn't make sense because I don't spend much time outdoors, but it's true.
For me, anything north of I-70 is a hard pass. Between say I-64 and and I-20 is doable with I-40 kind of being the Goldilocks zone in terms of seasonality. Anything south of 20 is too damn hot.
Also, as far as places to live, Huntsville, AL is a pretty decent place and hasn't been mentioned.
edit: This guidance obviously applies to areas east of the Mississippi. There are people here far more experienced with the western half of the US.
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I was researching Huntsville because my boss wants me to apply to the FBI and apparently that’s their second HQ area outside of DC. There’s a lot of tech/STEM/smart people in that city from my research. A lot of NASA operations among others too.4zilch wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 1:09 pmI have similar feels with the weather thing.troyguitar wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 12:41 pm FWIW we were reasonably happy in KY, I see no reason that we wouldn't be happy again in a better (warmer, sunnier, less rust) place like that. Ideally we'd have been closer to Louisville/Lexington but then the commute would have been too much. Without the commute, those 2 places are on the table though Louisville is starting to get pretty far into the rusty winters category.
I thought we'd hate KY. Turns out that weather is more important to me than I ever thought. It doesn't make sense because I don't spend much time outdoors, but it's true.
For me, anything north of I-70 is a hard pass. Between say I-64 and and I-20 is doable with I-40 kind of being the Goldilocks zone in terms of seasonality. Anything south of 20 is too damn hot.
Also, as far as places to live, Huntsville, AL is a pretty decent place and hasn't been mentioned.
COL is dirt cheap too.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
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I think anywhere in AL would be really tough culturally.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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That was my second thought, right after Asheville. I might prefer Savannah just because it's such a pretty little city, very walkable, great food, history, etc. Mostly true for Asheville as well, I know, but there was some intangible something about Savannah that just resonated with me. Cool historical stuff in Savannah, too. I know squat about the financial details such as tax rates, etc, but it sounds like it couldn't be any worse than Upstate NY.[user not found] wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 7:27 am As Travis said, set your expectations now. The only problem moving will solve is location. If your expectations are that you won't be any happier after your move but you'll be unhappy in a nicer place, you're going into it with the right mindset.
Asheville and Puerto Rico would be extremely high on my list but for pretty opposite reasons.
Asheville isn't cheap but you'd get liberal East Coast culture in a southern town.
Puerto Rico is a amazing and cheap. We've looked there several times and for about half the price of the mainland you can live like a king. Don't listen to chicken little, it's perfectly safe. You do have to be ready for hurricanes but if you plan appropriately that's manageable. Summers are hot as fuck but not overly humid on most of the island.
If you don't mind humidity, Savannah should be on the list.
Five years ago I would say Colorado but it's probably priced itself out at this point.
Hurricanes there,