OT 17: WELCOME TO THE CORONADOME!

[Johnny_P]

Right? But then...what could that space be re-purposed for?

People are idiots, but there's also a lot of creativity out there. Could be major

Lots of things.

There's so much waste behind utilizing all that office space, anyway. All the commuting, all the parking, all the meetings where nothing gets done.

More people need to WFH if possible.

Repurpose the office space into better things. Indoor grow facilities, indoor bike parks, indoor recreational whatever. Hell, cheap housing.

There is no reason why we need to keep building more buildings. Repurpose what we already have.

This nation's economy is built on waste suggest people don't commute 30 miles daily in their ing's 2500 pickup to sit in a cubicle and fill out TPS reports.

[dubshow]

Lots of things.

There's so much waste behind utilizing all that office space, anyway. All the commuting, all the parking, all the meetings where nothing gets done.

More people need to WFH if possible.

Repurpose the office space into better things. Indoor grow facilities, indoor bike parks, indoor recreational whatever. Hell, cheap housing.

There is no reason why we need to keep building more buildings. Repurpose what we already have.

Places like Detroit have gorgeous architecture that is just crumbling further into disarray because people want “new” I guess.

you say that but some of the older buildings are down right deadly and have hazardous materials everywhere. The safety and abatement cost quickly overtakes and feeling good value you can place on reusing it.

Why does america clamor to holding onto 200 year old shit?

Its not like italy where new shops are literally built into 2000 year old ruins. Why dont we focus on building BETTER than just mass produced bullshit with modern tech, efficiency and safety.

[Johnny_P]

Places like Detroit have gorgeous architecture that is just crumbling further into disarray because people want “new” I guess.

Restoring old shit properly is and then maintaining it is further

...and there are no tax benefits to doing so AFAIK, vs slapping together a cheapass building on basically free land and getting yuuge tax breaks for "creating jobs"

Upkeep on old houses can be intense.
Sometimes you get to the point it makes more sense to hit the reset button on the property and bulldoze the dilapidated structure altogether.
I think the intent of the post, though, was to say our society is too throw-away in general, and that filters down even to our buildings.

[Melon]

I'm glad we can discuss civilly. I like you and value the friendship.

Your sarcastic "its just the flu" statement is annoying me, sorry it just is. You quoted a lot of fantastical numbers there from articles that do a poor job citing their sources on said numbers. Looking at the actual curves, we are looking at ~80k deaths from the covid. Every year we see 40-60k from the flu, numbers that are notoriously unreliable. I know 20k difference is a big number, but on population scales its a blip, and we are still in the same order of magnitude. And I realize that all those cases at once could overwhelm the system and cause more deaths. Even the CDC says covid is "a flu like virus". Viral stuff we humans catch that make us sick as fuck is a whole class of diseases other than actual influenza. Comparing it to the flu is similar to the kleenex vs tissue paper naming convention. Flu is the common use brand name for respiratory viral infections.

My argument isnt lives vs the economy, its LIVES LOST due to covid vs LIVES LOST due to the economy. Bad economies kill people, plain and simple. My point is that i hope the powers that be are doing their best to balance this and not using a crisis to further personal agendas.

I am over being preached to about this from every angle. I can add, quite well thanks to 3 semesters of calculus. As you so aptly put, people are going to people. Let them and stop judging so hard is my only wish at this time.

I'm openly mocking those who willfully downplay the deaths of people.
And I shall continue to do so.

The economy isn't as important as saving lives.

Where are you getting 80,000 from? There are several models predicting the curve, which one did you analyze?
As far as data analysis goes, here's a great article looking at the data analysis.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/co ... aningless/

Am I saying that my aforementioned numbers are bogus? Sure, if you take it that way, I'm saying they're undefined.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
That being said, it's the best data we have got. We're in the middle of the crisis.

I hope it's less than the flu, I hope it's as close to zero as possible.
Show me some data that the economic downturn will cost lives, and let's compare that apples to apples to the projected COVID-19 losses.

You also want to get into the symantecs of what's called the Flu, or Coronavirus.
Well, then let's refer to it as SARS-Cov-2 Virus to be more precise.
The Flu (As defined by the CDC)
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/surv- ... uenza.html
Shall be referred to as such.

You mention being preached to, then don't listen.

You mention your education.
Well, you're debating an art student.

[Wocka Wocka]

Restoring old shit properly is and then maintaining it is further

...and there are no tax benefits to doing so AFAIK, vs slapping together a cheapass building on basically free land and getting yuuge tax breaks for "creating jobs"

Upkeep on old houses can be intense.
Sometimes you get to the point it makes more sense to hit the reset button on the property and bulldoze the dilapidated structure altogether.
I think the intent of the post, though, was to say our society is too throw-away in general, and that filters down even to our buildings.

As someone who lives in a civil war era home, can confirm that upkeep can be a bitch. Personally, I can't stand most new construction, because it is (for the most part) cookie-cutter garbage.

The bones of my house are solid. We got lucky that the pervious owners did a tear-down to the studs remodel, including the first indoor plumbing the house had. So the oldest of most of the things in my house is only 15 years old.

[Apex]

Restoring old shit properly is and then maintaining it is further

...and there are no tax benefits to doing so AFAIK, vs slapping together a cheapass building on basically free land and getting yuuge tax breaks for "creating jobs"

Upkeep on old houses can be intense.
Sometimes you get to the point it makes more sense to hit the reset button on the property and bulldoze the dilapidated structure altogether.
I think the intent of the post, though, was to say our society is too throw-away in general, and that filters down even to our buildings.

Dat was what I was trying to relay, and using cool architecture from a by-gone era to show it.

[Apex]

Its gotta be a .gov conspiracy.

Everything is. We're all just cogs in the wheel.



Hence why I'm experiencing a mental shift through all of this. It's not about what you have in life, it's about what you do. What you see, where you go, who you've met.

[Melon]

I glossed over some other statements that Brad made. One specifically about legislation being passed with a lot of add-ons for politicians self-serving interests.

It is important we pay attention to what the government is doing at this time. Locally, on a state and federal level for sure.

[goIftdibrad]

Where are you getting 80,000 from?


Show me some data that the economic downturn will cost lives,

1. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

2. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00210-0
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sp ... pn1017.pdf

Impact on health: The hardship of job loss also has serious negative impacts on health. In the short
run, layoffs are associated with higher risk of heart attacks and other stress-related illnesses
(Burgard et al., 2007). But even in the long term, the mortality rate of workers that have been laid
off is on average higher than that of comparable workers that did not lose their jobs, controlling for
other relevant individual and aggregate characteristics. Based on social security data for the United
States, Sullivan and von Wachter (2009) estimate that increased mortality rate due to
unemployment can persist up to 20 years after the job loss and lead to an average loss of life
expectancy from 1 to 1.5 years (see Figure 5). Moreover, displaced workers’ loss in earnings is
associated with the increase in mortality odds: workers that are displaced but are lucky enough not
to suffer a loss in subsequent earnings are not found to have a higher rate of mortality (Figure 6).

This suggests that financial resources serve as an important determinant of individual health by
influencing the ability to invest in good health care (and access to health insurance) and a healthy
lifestyle, while a shortage of resources leads to poor lifestyle choices and can also be the reason for
stress and depression.

This is both pretty well established science as well as common sense.

[4zilch]

so, sending everyone to work and letting the world burn doesn't cause the same economic stress?

[Wocka Wocka]

I'm glad we can discuss civilly. I like you and value the friendship.

Your sarcastic "its just the flu" statement is annoying me, sorry it just is. You quoted a lot of fantastical numbers there from articles that do a poor job citing their sources on said numbers. Looking at the actual curves, we are looking at ~80k deaths from the covid. Every year we see 40-60k from the flu, numbers that are notoriously unreliable. I know 20k difference is a big number, but on population scales its a blip, and we are still in the same order of magnitude. And I realize that all those cases at once could overwhelm the system and cause more deaths. Even the CDC says covid is "a flu like virus". Viral stuff we humans catch that make us sick as fuck is a whole class of diseases other than actual influenza. Comparing it to the flu is similar to the kleenex vs tissue paper naming convention. Flu is the common use brand name for respiratory viral infections.

My argument isnt lives vs the economy, its LIVES LOST due to covid vs LIVES LOST due to the economy. Bad economies kill people, plain and simple. My point is that i hope the powers that be are doing their best to balance this and not using a crisis to further personal agendas.

I am over being preached to about this from every angle. I can add, quite well thanks to 3 semesters of calculus. As you so aptly put, people are going to people. Let them and stop judging so hard is my only wish at this time.

This is NOT a naming convention issue. SARS-CoV-2 is not like the flu, beyond so much as that it is a virus. Its transmission rate per person is higher, 2 to 2.5 persons infected versus 1.3 for influenza.

Additionally, it can be spread by people long before they are symptomatic unlike seasonal influenza.

Based on information from China, up to 20% of individuals with COVID-19 required hospitalization, significantly higher than influenza.

The death rate from seasonal influenza is typically 0.1%. If SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 hit's even 1%, which is has in most places, it makes it 10-fold more deadly

No clue where you're getting your facts, but it's clearly fucking wrong if you think that this is only a 20K more death than the flu scenario.

[goIftdibrad]

I like this

go shopping dont wear mask lick the gas station handle candystripe the covid unit start attending mega church attend congressional hearings find a flat earth conference allow sexual assualt from uncle Joe Biden die alone

[coogles]

This is NOT a naming convention issue. SARS-CoV-2 is not like the flu, beyond so much as that it is a virus. Its transmission rate per person is higher, 2 to 2.5 persons infected versus 1.3 for influenza.

Additionally, it can be spread by people long before they are symptomatic unlike seasonal influenza.

Based on information from China, up to 20% of individuals with COVID-19 required hospitalization, significantly higher than influenza.

The death rate from seasonal influenza is typically 0.1%. If SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 hit's even 1%, which is has in most places, it makes it 10-fold more deadly

No clue where you're getting your facts, but it's clearly fucking wrong if you think that this is only a 20K more death than the flu scenario.

It's possible we end up with only 80k deaths from COVID-19, but it will be because so many fewer people will get infected than in a typical flu season from the social distancing measures taken. From what I've seen, if there'd been no measures taken we'd see upwards of 2 million deaths in the US alone.

[goIftdibrad]

This is NOT a naming convention issue. SARS-CoV-2 is not like the flu, beyond so much as that it is a virus. Its transmission rate per person is higher, 2 to 2.5 persons infected versus 1.3 for influenza.

Additionally, it can be spread by people long before they are symptomatic unlike seasonal influenza.

Based on information from China, up to 20% of individuals with COVID-19 required hospitalization, significantly higher than influenza.

The death rate from seasonal influenza is typically 0.1%. If SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 hit's even 1%, which is has in most places, it makes it 10-fold more deadly

No clue where you're getting your facts, but it's clearly fucking wrong if you think that this is only a 20K more death than the flu scenario.

this is the source i am pulling my dead people number from
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

[SAWCE]

Can we set up a thread for people to bash each other over Covid-19 in? Get that shit out of OT

[Wocka Wocka]

This is NOT a naming convention issue. SARS-CoV-2 is not like the flu, beyond so much as that it is a virus. Its transmission rate per person is higher, 2 to 2.5 persons infected versus 1.3 for influenza.

Additionally, it can be spread by people long before they are symptomatic unlike seasonal influenza.

Based on information from China, up to 20% of individuals with COVID-19 required hospitalization, significantly higher than influenza.

The death rate from seasonal influenza is typically 0.1%. If SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 hit's even 1%, which is has in most places, it makes it 10-fold more deadly

No clue where you're getting your facts, but it's clearly fucking wrong if you think that this is only a 20K more death than the flu scenario.

It's possible we end up with only 80k deaths from COVID-19, but it will be because so many fewer people will get infected than in a typical flu season from the social distancing measures taken. From what I've seen, if there'd been no measures taken we'd see upwards of 2 million deaths in the US alone.

This is NOT a naming convention issue. SARS-CoV-2 is not like the flu, beyond so much as that it is a virus. Its transmission rate per person is higher, 2 to 2.5 persons infected versus 1.3 for influenza.

Additionally, it can be spread by people long before they are symptomatic unlike seasonal influenza.

Based on information from China, up to 20% of individuals with COVID-19 required hospitalization, significantly higher than influenza.

The death rate from seasonal influenza is typically 0.1%. If SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 hit's even 1%, which is has in most places, it makes it 10-fold more deadly

No clue where you're getting your facts, but it's clearly fucking wrong if you think that this is only a 20K more death than the flu scenario.

this is the source i am pulling my dead people number from
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

This estimate only holds true if we maintain social distancing enough the end of May. Which, contrary to what you want us to believe, you seem to think is a bad idea.


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[goIftdibrad]

Can we set up a thread for people to bash each other over Covid-19 in? Get that shit out of OT

[Wocka Wocka]

Can we set up a thread for people to bash each other over Covid-19 in? Get that shit out of OT

I suppose we could, but I’m done.


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[goIftdibrad]

This estimate only holds true if we maintain social distancing enough the end of May. Which, contrary to what you want us to believe, you seem to think is a bad idea.


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I've never said this, IRL or in this thread.

[Wocka Wocka]

This estimate only holds true if we maintain social distancing enough the end of May. Which, contrary to what you want us to believe, you seem to think is a bad idea.


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I've never said this, IRL or in this thread.

You’ve implied it, repeatedly.


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[goIftdibrad]

I've never said this, IRL or in this thread.

You’ve implied it, repeatedly.


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Show me.

[Wocka Wocka]

You’ve implied it, repeatedly.


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Show me.

I’m gonna eat my lunch. I’ll go back through your posts after I finish this episode of Madam Secretary.


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[troyguitar]

so, sending everyone to work and letting the world burn doesn't cause the same economic stress?

:Michaelscottthankyou:

I don't understand how people don't get that we would be in worse straights as we are now economically AND have a million dead.

Willful ignorance is worse than plain ignorance as it's intentional and malicious.

Well, for one... People in this country not working generally means that they have no access to healthcare, so it might be better for most of us to work.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Right? But then...what could that space be re-purposed for?

People are idiots, but there's also a lot of creativity out there. Could be major

Lots of things.

There's so much waste behind utilizing all that office space, anyway. All the commuting, all the parking, all the meetings where nothing gets done.

More people need to WFH if possible.

Repurpose the office space into better things. Indoor grow facilities, indoor bike parks, indoor recreational whatever. Hell, cheap housing.

There is no reason why we need to keep building more buildings. Repurpose what we already have.

Totally!

My office building has tons of natural light and feels like a mall inside. Could actually be a pretty neat place to live and play.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Places like Detroit have gorgeous architecture that is just crumbling further into disarray because people want “new” I guess.

Restoring old shit properly is and then maintaining it is further

...and there are no tax benefits to doing so AFAIK, vs slapping together a cheapass building on basically free land and getting yuuge tax breaks for "creating jobs"

Actually, the state of MI offers some tax breaks for rehabbing old buildings, you just need to make sure they're used to benefit people. Which means a certain % of the building needs to be reserved for low income people.

It's still a crazy expensive thing and often more so than just building a new damned building. The waste is