OT 17: WELCOME TO THE CORONADOME!

[Johnny_P]

Depends on what you are using as a reference. Tons and tons of people have been left behind by the "recovery" in the past 10 years. Only around 30 million Americans have "good jobs" with solid incomes and benefits today and ~half of employed Americans are straight up poor.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wa ... wage-jobs/#

Troy did a good job explaining.

[Apex]

Last I was comparing some things adjusted for inflation, compact cars and sporty cars are actually cheaper now than in the 1990s.

I think my 968 stickered for something like $45k in 1992.

Looks like today this would cost about $82k.

[wap]

with that shit

[Johnny_P]

Stuff got really expensive. How much does a CX5 lease for now? They aren’t exactly cheap.

You can currently lease a 2019 CX5 touring with the preferred package for 12k mi/yr, $2k out of pocket (including tax, motor vehicle, and first payment) for under $300/mo. Lease includes gap and $1000 of wear and tear.

That’s a very well equipped car. Heated seats, CarPlay, power drivers seat, Bose, power lift gate, sunroof. It’s the bread and butter of the CX5.

Seems reasonable to me.

True but even that is out of range for a lot of people. Based on Troys article.

[CorvetteWaxer]

Stuff got really expensive. How much does a CX5 lease for now? They aren’t exactly cheap.

You can currently lease a 2019 CX5 touring with the preferred package for 12k mi/yr, $2k out of pocket (including tax, motor vehicle, and first payment) for under $300/mo. Lease includes gap and $1000 of wear and tear.

That’s a very well equipped car. Heated seats, CarPlay, power drivers seat, Bose, power lift gate, sunroof. It’s the bread and butter of the CX5.

Seems reasonable to me.

I'll give you $0 down and will pay $103.95 per month for 31 months and 15k miles per year.

[Johnny_P]

You can currently lease a 2019 CX5 touring with the preferred package for 12k mi/yr, $2k out of pocket (including tax, motor vehicle, and first payment) for under $300/mo. Lease includes gap and $1000 of wear and tear.

That’s a very well equipped car. Heated seats, CarPlay, power drivers seat, Bose, power lift gate, sunroof. It’s the bread and butter of the CX5.

Seems reasonable to me.

I'll give you $0 down and will pay $103.95 per month for 31 months and 15k miles per year.

Shit where do I sign

[D Griff]

You can currently lease a 2019 CX5 touring with the preferred package for 12k mi/yr, $2k out of pocket (including tax, motor vehicle, and first payment) for under $300/mo. Lease includes gap and $1000 of wear and tear.

That’s a very well equipped car. Heated seats, CarPlay, power drivers seat, Bose, power lift gate, sunroof. It’s the bread and butter of the CX5.

Seems reasonable to me.

True but even that is out of range for a lot of people. Based on Troys article.

Well, owning a brand new, nice vehicle isn't exactly a right either

[Johnny_P]

True but even that is out of range for a lot of people. Based on Troys article.

Well, owning a brand new, nice vehicle isn't exactly a right either

Exactamundo. But the car industry relies on new car sales.

[D Griff]

Well, owning a brand new, nice vehicle isn't exactly a right either

Exactamundo. But the car industry relies on new car sales.

I'm realizing more and more I just enjoy older cars more so really. 25 years from now there likely won't be much available that I'll like, but hopefully I won't care then or I can make the C5 last. I'm not sure that this new crop of cars will really last all of that long with dynamic/computer controlled everything, there's a lot to go

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Well, owning a brand new, nice vehicle isn't exactly a right either

Exactamundo. But the car industry relies on new car sales.

It does...but it doesn't always have to be feast or fammine. We've been at an industry high for a long time 17-18M annually, and many analysts indicate that a normal healthy economy can SUSTAIN ~15-16M. Companies could base their sales forecast on those numbers, but that's not good enough. GROWTH, MARGIN, PROFITABILITY are all the pillars we worship...which means we'll continue in these boom bust cycles.

To sustain these high industry numbers, we're effectively pulling future car sales ahead. People trade-in cars that they otherwise would have traded in a few years in the chase for good deals. Which is fine now, but is just making the cliff higher for later. Happens every cycle.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Exactamundo. But the car industry relies on new car sales.

I'm realizing more and more I just enjoy older cars more so really. 25 years from now there likely won't be much available that I'll like, but hopefully I won't care then or I can make the C5 last. I'm not sure that this new crop of cars will really last all of that long with dynamic/computer controlled everything, there's a lot to go

The C5 has a ton of computer controlled stuff in it...actually, it was super advanced for the time. 01+ cars have proven to be pretty robust in the electronics department. And durability tech has advanced quite a bit since the C5. I wouldn't worry too much about electrical crap failing on many modern cars, but the .gov is forcing cars to be more boring and also more invasive at the same time. That's what makes me lose interest in modern stuff. I don't want anything more modern than the JL/T that we have. Those are still relatively simple in the grand scheme.

[dubshow]

Depends on what you are using as a reference. Tons and tons of people have been left behind by the "recovery" in the past 10 years. Only around 30 million Americans have "good jobs" with solid incomes and benefits today and ~half of employed Americans are straight up poor.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wa ... wage-jobs/#

Most people's labors aren't worth more than $10.50, clearly. It is not difficult to move past the $10/hr mark Troy. People CHOOSE not to. If you can stay off drugs, and wake up and report to work, then you can make $50k/yr in ANY trade labor.

Of course everyone wants to work a 30 hour week and make $100k, so who subsidizes those that dont being a value to our economy? The game sucks, but dont tell me you CANT make more than $10/hr.

I'll throw this, I see some real stupid shit searching marketplace on the goodbook. Selling literally junk and 40 y/o worthless electronics/motorcycles.

https://www.facebook.com/jayybxtchh

Ashten Neil
March 13, 2018
soon to be mommy
fuck the world,just chill n get high baby

There are a LOT of stupid people out there Troy. You can go die on that hill in your vain attempt to help them. I rest my case.

[D Griff]

Exactamundo. But the car industry relies on new car sales.

It does...but it doesn't always have to be feast or fammine. We've been at an industry high for a long time 17-18M annually, and many analysts indicate that a normal healthy economy can SUSTAIN ~15-16M. Companies could base their sales forecast on those numbers, but that's not good enough. GROWTH, MARGIN, PROFITABILITY are all the pillars we worship...which means we'll continue in these boom bust cycles.

To sustain these high industry numbers, we're effectively pulling future car sales ahead. People trade-in cars that they otherwise would have traded in a few years in the chase for good deals. Which is fine now, but is just making the cliff higher for later. Happens every cycle.

This isn't just the auto industry , this is corporate 'murica.

Our company is bitching about the "terrible" year with "only" 4% growth over 2018. Meanwhile my team is at like 25+% growth and we can't even bring our to the Christmas dinner (large company party was cancelled) because it's unfair to the other teams contributing to the "terrible" results.



The reality is that the "mediocre" performance was driven by a huge acquisition

[dubshow]

True but even that is out of range for a lot of people. Based on Troys article.

Well, owning a brand new, nice vehicle isn't exactly a right either

[D Griff]

I'm realizing more and more I just enjoy older cars more so really. 25 years from now there likely won't be much available that I'll like, but hopefully I won't care then or I can make the C5 last. I'm not sure that this new crop of cars will really last all of that long with dynamic/computer controlled everything, there's a lot to go

The C5 has a ton of computer controlled stuff in it...actually, it was super advanced for the time. 01+ cars have proven to be pretty robust in the electronics department. And durability tech has advanced quite a bit since the C5. I wouldn't worry too much about electrical crap failing on many modern cars, but the .gov is forcing cars to be more boring and also more invasive at the same time. That's what makes me lose interest in modern stuff. I don't want anything more modern than the JL/T that we have. Those are still relatively simple in the grand scheme.

While you're , I think things like electronically controlled suspensions, dozens of sesors in every bumper, etc. will make owning 20 year old cars 20 years from now significantly more expensive for a shade tree bro such as myself.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It does...but it doesn't always have to be feast or fammine. We've been at an industry high for a long time 17-18M annually, and many analysts indicate that a normal healthy economy can SUSTAIN ~15-16M. Companies could base their sales forecast on those numbers, but that's not good enough. GROWTH, MARGIN, PROFITABILITY are all the pillars we worship...which means we'll continue in these boom bust cycles.

To sustain these high industry numbers, we're effectively pulling future car sales ahead. People trade-in cars that they otherwise would have traded in a few years in the chase for good deals. Which is fine now, but is just making the cliff higher for later. Happens every cycle.

This isn't just the auto industry , this is corporate 'murica.

Our company is bitching about the "terrible" year with "only" 4% growth over 2018. Meanwhile my team is at like 25+% growth and we can't even bring our to the Christmas dinner (large company party was cancelled) because it's unfair to the other teams contributing to the "terrible" results.



The reality is that the "mediocre" performance was driven by a huge acquisition

Totally. We're pretty screwed as a society. In part, this gets back to my Walden rantings.

The auto industry is a bit unique because of how capital intensive the business is...compared to other services companies with lower overhead and CAPEX requirements.

[CorvetteWaxer]

The C5 has a ton of computer controlled stuff in it...actually, it was super advanced for the time. 01+ cars have proven to be pretty robust in the electronics department. And durability tech has advanced quite a bit since the C5. I wouldn't worry too much about electrical crap failing on many modern cars, but the .gov is forcing cars to be more boring and also more invasive at the same time. That's what makes me lose interest in modern stuff. I don't want anything more modern than the JL/T that we have. Those are still relatively simple in the grand scheme.

While you're , I think things like electronically controlled suspensions, dozens of sesors in every bumper, etc. will make owning 20 year old cars 20 years from now significantly more expensive for a shady bro such as myself.

Truth.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The C5 has a ton of computer controlled stuff in it...actually, it was super advanced for the time. 01+ cars have proven to be pretty robust in the electronics department. And durability tech has advanced quite a bit since the C5. I wouldn't worry too much about electrical crap failing on many modern cars, but the .gov is forcing cars to be more boring and also more invasive at the same time. That's what makes me lose interest in modern stuff. I don't want anything more modern than the JL/T that we have. Those are still relatively simple in the grand scheme.

While you're , I think things like electronically controlled suspensions, dozens of sesors in every bumper, etc. will make owning 20 year old cars 20 years from now significantly more expensive for a shade tree bro such as myself.

Ah yes, new features...not only do I not want that shit now, I REALLY don't want it in the future when it comes to repairs.

Fortunately, we're in a sweet spot for the industry. Still plenty of cars that don't have too much tech shit in them. My JT doesn't have any sensors in the bumper, or advanced controls over driving, or any of that nonsense. My Wife's JL is similar.

But that's rapidly changing. The standard content lists on upcoming vehicles is pretty nuts. .gov mandated and customer driven. s love tech.

[CorvetteWaxer]

While you're , I think things like electronically controlled suspensions, dozens of sesors in every bumper, etc. will make owning 20 year old cars 20 years from now significantly more expensive for a shade tree bro such as myself.

Ah yes, new features...not only do I not want that shit now, I REALLY don't want it in the future when it comes to repairs.

Fortunately, we're in a sweet spot for the industry. Still plenty of cars that don't have too much tech shit in them. My JT doesn't have any sensors in the bumper, or advanced controls over driving, or any of that nonsense. My Wife's JL is similar.

But that's rapidly changing. The standard content lists on upcoming vehicles is pretty nuts. .gov mandated and customer driven. s love tech.

I dare you to pull the HU out and install a new stereo deck.





The JL has crossed that bridge. At least the JK was old enough to not rely on the integrated controls being in the HU.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Ah yes, new features...not only do I not want that shit now, I REALLY don't want it in the future when it comes to repairs.

Fortunately, we're in a sweet spot for the industry. Still plenty of cars that don't have too much tech shit in them. My JT doesn't have any sensors in the bumper, or advanced controls over driving, or any of that nonsense. My Wife's JL is similar.

But that's rapidly changing. The standard content lists on upcoming vehicles is pretty nuts. .gov mandated and customer driven. s love tech.

I dare you to pull the HU out and install a new stereo deck.





The JL has crossed that bridge. At least the JK was old enough to not rely on the integrated controls being in the HU.

But I don't want to? I'm perfectly happy with the stock HU...aftermarket has always been terrible, but stock was worse. Now that stock is decent

Even then, Alpine makes a replacement HU for the JL...it's AF, but companies are adapting.

[CorvetteWaxer]

I dare you to pull the HU out and install a new stereo deck.





The JL has crossed that bridge. At least the JK was old enough to not rely on the integrated controls being in the HU.

But I don't want to? I'm perfectly happy with the stock HU...aftermarket has always been terrible, but stock was worse. Now that stock is decent

Even then, Alpine makes a replacement HU for the JL...it's AF, but companies are adapting.

15 years from now the stock unit will be $$$$ or hard to get I'm sure. That's my point.

Every car has gone fully integrated now and locking stuff down. There's no reason to run a CAN or MOST bus to the HU, they just want to.

[troyguitar]

Depends on what you are using as a reference. Tons and tons of people have been left behind by the "recovery" in the past 10 years. Only around 30 million Americans have "good jobs" with solid incomes and benefits today and ~half of employed Americans are straight up poor.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wa ... wage-jobs/#

Most people's labors aren't worth more than $10.50, clearly. It is not difficult to move past the $10/hr mark Troy. People CHOOSE not to. If you can stay off drugs, and wake up and report to work, then you can make $50k/yr in ANY trade labor.

Of course everyone wants to work a 30 hour week and make $100k, so who subsidizes those that dont being a value to our economy? The game sucks, but dont tell me you CANT make more than $10/hr.

I'll throw this, I see some real stupid shit searching marketplace on the goodbook. Selling literally junk and 40 y/o worthless electronics/motorcycles.

https://www.facebook.com/jayybxtchh

Ashten Neil
March 13, 2018
soon to be mommy
fuck the world,just chill n get high baby

There are a LOT of stupid people out there Troy. You can go die on that hill in your vain attempt to help them. I rest my case.

It's nowhere near that simple and you know it.

The point was that life has gotten worse for ~half the country while it's gotten waaaay better for the top 10%, with the break even point somewhere in the upper half. Looking at averages doesn't give you the whole picture because the "haves" have gotten so much now that they make the average look pretty good.

...but yeah, clearly 50% of the working population is worthless and deserves to be that way forever.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

But I don't want to? I'm perfectly happy with the stock HU...aftermarket has always been terrible, but stock was worse. Now that stock is decent

Even then, Alpine makes a replacement HU for the JL...it's AF, but companies are adapting.

15 years from now the stock unit will be $$$$ or hard to get I'm sure. That's my point.

Every car has gone fully integrated now and locking stuff down. There's no reason to run a CAN or MOST bus to the HU, they just want to.

This is the tech "advancement" that makes me

[D Griff]

I find tech is pretty in general

[D Griff]

I am also in tech sales