Career Chat
- Irish
- Senior Chief Patty Officer
- Posts: 3648
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:37 am
- Drives: '12 GIT (190K!)- 2011 Outie A5
- Location: Carlisle PA
I would imagine going to a foreign jail for any length of time would make the rest of lifeJohnny_P wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 1:55 pmAh I see. The first step to changing the world is going to jail. BRB.troyguitar wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 1:51 pm Nelson Mandela went there. So did Martin Luther King. Must be a nice place?
assuming, of course, that your came through the ordeal intact.....
- troyguitar
- Command Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 20088
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
- Drives: Trek Domane
- Location: Swamp
I'm not convinced that is useful, but maybe if you do it after you have gone through school and a job or two in the field you studied it might be different... I can apply for 's job and pretend like I'm the most qualified motherfucker on Earth but they still won't even interview me, let alone hire me.[user not found] wrote:AKA Fake it until you make it.[user not found] wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 8:21 pm Must read for many of us:
https://hbr.org/2019/03/to-seem-more-co ... ium=social
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
[user not found] wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 9:53 pmI expect to hear about in person interview round two (overall round four) tomorrow or Wednesday.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
It's a catch 22 IMO.[user not found] wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 9:45 pmAKA Fake it until you make it.[user not found] wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 8:21 pm Must read for many of us:
https://hbr.org/2019/03/to-seem-more-co ... ium=social
I've quickly become viewed as an "expert" in whatever task or subject I'm working on at work. I tend to be the go-to for many things because people know I know what I'm doing and I'll get whatever done on time.
The problem with that is, it makes you a well-known doer, but not a leader. It's a balance you have to strike to not get stuck in a position/level because you're too valuable to promote. This happened to me at my last company, I could see it happening to me again.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
I had/did the same thing for my new job. I doubt it's an issue for you at this point. If you've made it this far, an offer is likely imminent.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:12 amI definitely am missing two skills/experiences they want but I think I made my case well that I am the right person even with those gaps. Plus I owned them as gaps and have plans to fill them.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Yea...very good sign indeed.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:35 amI'm very hopeful. Next interview round is with the peers and with the Chief People Officer and the CEO. HR told me in person they would beat what I am looking for financially, I doubt they would do that if I was out at that point.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Apex
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 29815
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:36 pm
- Drives: Abominable
- Location: NJ
[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:35 amI'm very hopeful. Next interview round is with the peers and with the Chief People Officer and the CEO. HR told me in person they would beat what I am looking for financially, I doubt they would do that if I was out at that point.
- Desertbreh
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 16802
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
- Location: Beyond Thunderdome
This is "Exhibit A" to why working for large companies can be.....insane. Being a "well known doer" somehow makes you NOT a leader, or "too valuable to promote." "Too valuable to promote".....don't say those words to me Chris. Don't ever say them again.Detroit wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:38 amIt's a catch 22 IMO.
I've quickly become viewed as an "expert" in whatever task or subject I'm working on at work. I tend to be the go-to for many things because people know I know what I'm doing and I'll get whatever done on time.
The problem with that is, it makes you a well-known doer, but not a leader. It's a balance you have to strike to not get stuck in a position/level because you're too valuable to promote. This happened to me at my last company, I could see it happening to me again.
- troyguitar
- Command Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 20088
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
- Drives: Trek Domane
- Location: Swamp
Why should a doer necessarily be any good at leading? They're entirely different skills. I can do tons of shit well. I can't lead a team South from the North pole.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
It's true man...especially at big companies. Unfortunately, my skillset is really only valued by large orgs, so it is what it is.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 1:59 pmThis is "Exhibit A" to why working for large companies can be.....insane. Being a "well known doer" somehow makes you NOT a leader, or "too valuable to promote." "Too valuable to promote".....don't say those words to me Chris. Don't ever say them again.Detroit wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:38 am
It's a catch 22 IMO.
I've quickly become viewed as an "expert" in whatever task or subject I'm working on at work. I tend to be the go-to for many things because people know I know what I'm doing and I'll get whatever done on time.
The problem with that is, it makes you a well-known doer, but not a leader. It's a balance you have to strike to not get stuck in a position/level because you're too valuable to promote. This happened to me at my last company, I could see it happening to me again.
I'm taking a new approach at my current company where I ask for help from peers and delegate more to demonstrate leadership ability. It seems to be well received so far.
My current company also feels like it could be a bit different. We'll see.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Desertbreh
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 16802
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
- Location: Beyond Thunderdome
Generally the ability to DO engenders respect from those who.....can do less? Leading by example? I obviously do not get it. If you are good at schmoozing, delegating, organizing, and just generally being a corporate shill but you can't actually create anything or accomplish anything related to the production of automobiles, you aren't my leader.troyguitar wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:03 pm Why should a doer necessarily be any good at leading? They're entirely different skills. I can do tons of shit well. I can't lead a team South from the North pole.
Last edited by Desertbreh on Tue May 07, 2019 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Very true!troyguitar wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:03 pm Why should a doer necessarily be any good at leading? They're entirely different skills. I can do tons of shit well. I can't lead a team South from the North pole.
The problem is, doers are generally very undervalued monetarily. Being a doer is fine, but you'll never make big bucks despite doing most if not all of the work. It's a pretty system TBH.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Yet, those are the leaders.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:09 pmGenerally the ability to DO engenders respect from those who.....can do less? Leading my example? I obviously do not get it. If you are good at schmoozing, delegating, organizing, and just generally being a corporate shill but you can't actually create anything or accomplish anything related to the production of automobiles, you aren't my leader.troyguitar wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:03 pm Why should a doer necessarily be any good at leading? They're entirely different skills. I can do tons of shit well. I can't lead a team South from the North pole.
Being a leader is more about negotiating and knowing what to say to who and when. It's really
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Desertbreh
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 16802
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
- Location: Beyond Thunderdome
It seems like "leadership" as you describe it can be a learned skill. Sometimes being worth a shit in the first place is a bridge too far for many.Detroit wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:10 pmVery true!troyguitar wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:03 pm Why should a doer necessarily be any good at leading? They're entirely different skills. I can do tons of shit well. I can't lead a team South from the North pole.
The problem is, doers are generally very undervalued monetarily. Being a doer is fine, but you'll never make big bucks despite doing most if not all of the work. It's a pretty system TBH.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
It's 100% a learned skill. The problem that I saw at GM all the time is that they couldn't fire anyone, and if someone sucked, the only way to get rid of them from a group was to promote them away since they wouldn't leave on their own accord to a new assignment. It was ridiculous.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:12 pmIt seems like "leadership" as you describe it can be a learned skill. Sometimes being worth a shit in the first place is a bridge too far for many.
I actually have moderate respect for the leaders I work with now. We'll see how that progresses.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Desertbreh
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 16802
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
- Location: Beyond Thunderdome
I do agree that managing personalities in today's age requires a fair amount of tap dancing to keep the lawyers at bay. Bob, that dude you just hired has turned out to be a flaming gay rights activist who rages against the corporate machine crushing his LGBT identity. He is also a vegan who is alienating your entire flesh eating department because he needs his own separate meat free fridge. Last time he ate meat he had to go out on disability for 5 months. He also needs a lot of family leave to manage his new adopted baby with his husband Gerald, and the dude needs additional time to care for Gerald, who is on dialysis. You still need to mold Bob into the team to become a productive member at FCA. Don't make a wrong move, cowboy, or Bob's lawyers will be all over your ass like white on rice.Detroit wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:10 pmYet, those are the leaders.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:09 pm
Generally the ability to DO engenders respect from those who.....can do less? Leading my example? I obviously do not get it. If you are good at schmoozing, delegating, organizing, and just generally being a corporate shill but you can't actually create anything or accomplish anything related to the production of automobiles, you aren't my leader.
Being a leader is more about negotiating and knowing what to say to who and when. It's really
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:19 pmI do agree that managing personalities in today's age requires a fair amount of tap dancing to keep the lawyers at bay. Bob, that dude you just hired has turned out to be a flaming gay rights activist who rages against the corporate machine crushing his LGBT identity. He is also a vegan who is alienating your entire flesh eating department because he needs his own separate meat free fridge. Last time he ate meat he had to go out on disability for 5 months. He also needs a lot of family leave to manage his new adopted baby with his husband Gerald, and the dude needs additional time to care for Gerald, who is on dialysis. You still need to mold Bob into the team to become a productive member at FCA. Don't make a wrong move, cowboy, or Bob's lawyers will be all over your ass like white on rice.
We don't have refrigerators
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Desertbreh
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 16802
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
- Location: Beyond Thunderdome
Just another element of the jackboot of oppression. Failing to accomodate need for refrigerated tofu=wanton cruelty. Why do you hate vegans bro?Detroit wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:24 pmDesertbreh wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:19 pm
I do agree that managing personalities in today's age requires a fair amount of tap dancing to keep the lawyers at bay. Bob, that dude you just hired has turned out to be a flaming gay rights activist who rages against the corporate machine crushing his LGBT identity. He is also a vegan who is alienating your entire flesh eating department because he needs his own separate meat free fridge. Last time he ate meat he had to go out on disability for 5 months. He also needs a lot of family leave to manage his new adopted baby with his husband Gerald, and the dude needs additional time to care for Gerald, who is on dialysis. You still need to mold Bob into the team to become a productive member at FCA. Don't make a wrong move, cowboy, or Bob's lawyers will be all over your ass like white on rice.
We don't have refrigerators
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:29 pmJust another element of the jackboot of oppression. Failing to accomodate need for refrigerated tofu=wanton cruelty. Why do you hate vegans bro?
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
You are correct and very uncommon from my experience.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:44 pmAs a leader... I higher doers who are the best at what they do. I have 5 people like that now who are all amazing at what they do, ok at what someone else on the team does, and working on everything else.
My job is twofold:
Be very good at everything but let the experts be experts and get everyone out of their way.
Bring these folks together for a common goal.
No one can be great at everything a team needs to do, but they need to be very good at it all.
I've had several bosses that literally had no clue what I did but they were great because they stayed out of my way, kept others out of my way, and got me money. The higher up the chain you get the less hard skills matter. I used to be GREAT at a couple security disciplines, that's fading simply because I do less of it hands on.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
It absolutely is...but even in B-school management classes I was taught a similar methodology...which makes sense to me. I am motivated by such management.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:56 pmFirst, hire not higher, I'm an ass.
Second, I suspect this is more of a millennial approach, we will see if it becomes more common or not. I am hopeful.
I'm actually motivated to make it to leader status to be part of the change.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- troyguitar
- Command Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 20088
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
- Drives: Trek Domane
- Location: Swamp
This is how you pass interviews, right?