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Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:00 pm
by Desertbreh
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:49 pm
Desertbreh wrote:
I cannot point to specfics but my recollection of looking at your posts is that you have bandied about many homes in the low 2's that look decent enough.
The places in the 2's are all huge compromises full of endless projects. A "turn-key" modern home starts in the 3's.

Like this place that's $229k. We'd spend at least $50k and thousands of man hours updating it and hopefully sell for $3xx later... and the whole time be living in a house built for midgets. 7'4" ceiling upstairs, 7'10" downstairs.[/size] Huge garage but it's detached and uninsulated so you can't work in it for 6 months a year without spending big money to heat it.

Life is expensive everywhere.
Deal Killer

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:39 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:49 pm The places in the 2's are all huge compromises full of endless projects. A "turn-key" modern home starts in the 3's.

Like this place that's $229k. We'd spend at least $50k and thousands of man hours updating it and hopefully sell for $3xx later... and the whole time be living in a house built for midgets. 7'4" ceiling upstairs, 7'10" downstairs. Huge garage but it's detached and uninsulated so you can't work in it for 6 months a year without spending big money to heat it.

Life is expensive everywhere.
FWIW the alporioum is hardly turn-key. Great condition but everything was 25 years old but the roof. Not the same challenges you face but still tons to do.

When I bought it probably would have been 300 there. It's around 550 here if I were to sell today so even if it's 400 there...
So your taxes are $16xxx this year?

(at 550 market value we'd be at a $24xxx tax bill here)

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:45 pm
by troyguitar
Also, if you show me a modern place with HVAC and a 3 car attached garage up here for $300k then I'll make an appointment to visit it ASAP, probably putting an offer in by the end of the week...

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:38 pm
by Apex
[user not found] wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:25 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:45 pm Also, if you show me a modern place with HVAC and a 3 car attached garage up here for $300k then I'll make an appointment to visit it ASAP, probably putting an offer in by the end of the week...
Based on what you had said before, I'd assume something like mine (90s built, great condition but no updates and core systems in need of replacement, 3 car garage) to be around 400k currently.
:[user not found]: what is your current commute like? When you don’t WFH.

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:54 pm
by Apex
[user not found] wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:42 pm
Apex wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:38 pm

:[user not found]: what is your current commute like? When you don’t WFH.
42 miles each way
About 45 minutes in and 60 minutes home except Fridays which tend to be more like 70 minutes.

Do what you gotta do if you want a decent salary and cheap housing.
:notbad:
I’m roughly similar times for 27 miles each way. Maybe add another 15 mins on each side some days?

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:01 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:45 pm Also, if you show me a modern place with HVAC and a 3 car attached garage up here for $300k then I'll make an appointment to visit it ASAP, probably putting an offer in by the end of the week...
Based on what you had said before, I'd assume something like mine (90s built, great condition but no updates and core systems in need of replacement, 3 car garage) to be around 400k currently.
That's pretty much the case except:

A: That kind of place doesn't really exist. Houses here almost never have 3+ car garages.

B: The tax rate is 50% higher than yours and it goes up annually.

I fucking hate it here and it's 90% because of the taxes. It would be "OK-ish" if we could pay what you pay for what you have...

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:02 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
Apex wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:38 pm :[user not found]: what is your current commute like? When you don’t WFH.
42 miles each way
About 45 minutes in and 60 minutes home except Fridays which tend to be more like 70 minutes.

Do what you gotta do if you want a decent salary and cheap housing.
What's cheap about $16k in taxes plus half a million dollars in :haus: ?

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:12 pm
by CorvetteWaxer
[user not found] wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:23 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:39 pm So your taxes are $16xxx this year?

(at 550 market value we'd be at a $24xxx tax bill here)
About 16k, we aren't reassessed annually.
This makes CA properties look cheaper and cheaper. A $600k house here would run ~$6,600+ any local bonds and measures, so likely under $7k. My city is conservative and has very few measures and bonds other than building 4 schools.

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:14 pm
by troyguitar
CorvetteWaxer wrote:
[user not found] wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:23 pm About 16k, we aren't reassessed annually.
This makes CA properties look cheaper and cheaper. A $600k house here would run ~$6,600+ any local bonds and measures, so likely under $7k. My city is conservative and has very few measures and bonds other than building 4 schools.
CA is cheap as fuck. You guys don't know how lucky you are to live and work there.

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:18 pm
by goIftdibrad
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:02 pm
[user not found] wrote:
42 miles each way
About 45 minutes in and 60 minutes home except Fridays which tend to be more like 70 minutes.

Do what you gotta do if you want a decent salary and cheap housing.
What's cheap about $16k in taxes plus half a million dollars in :haus: ?
:dat:

pissing away 16k a year additional to the government for fawking taxes is a pretty hard no for me unless I'm living in the best house ever basically. oh and suddenly become rich.

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:21 pm
by CorvetteWaxer
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:14 pm
CorvetteWaxer wrote:
This makes CA properties look cheaper and cheaper. A $600k house here would run ~$6,600+ any local bonds and measures, so likely under $7k. My city is conservative and has very few measures and bonds other than building 4 schools.
CA is cheap as fuck. You guys don't know how lucky you are to live and work there.
Well, on property taxes, maybe.. but everything else they bend us over and don't use lube. Plus, our $600k house is a basic starter house that's maybe 1400 square feet... in the Bay area those don't really exist. The "starter homes" I've seen recently brag about "Starting in the low $980's!"

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:22 pm
by Desertbreh
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:12 pm
[user not found] wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:23 pm

About 16k, we aren't reassessed annually.
This makes CA properties look cheaper and cheaper. A $600k house here would run ~$6,600+ any local bonds and measures, so likely under $7k. My city is conservative and has very few measures and bonds other than building 4 schools.
Yeah this forum is useful for many perspectives, one being the various ways others get bent over outside this state. Prop 13 has us paying about .75% on actual value ATM. Paying over $1300/month on taxes....yowza. My second house payment was $1300 all in. :wap:

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:27 pm
by troyguitar
CorvetteWaxer wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:14 pm CA is cheap as fuck. You guys don't know how lucky you are to live and work there.
Well, on property taxes, maybe.. but everything else they bend us over and don't use lube. Plus, our $600k house is a basic starter house that's maybe 1400 square feet... in the Bay area those don't really exist. The "starter homes" I've seen recently brag about "Starting in the low $980's!"
It's a pyramid scheme out there for sure, but that beats what is available in the rest of the country if not the whole world. I'd pay $700k for a starter house if taxes were 1% and weather was perfect and the house appreciated at 10+% annually and starter jobs paid $100k.

Look at the alternatives... The same starter house here might be "only" $200k but taxes are 4.5% and weather sucks and appreciation is zero and starter jobs pay $30k.

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:29 pm
by troyguitar
Desertbreh wrote:
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:12 pm This makes CA properties look cheaper and cheaper. A $600k house here would run ~$6,600+ any local bonds and measures, so likely under $7k. My city is conservative and has very few measures and bonds other than building 4 schools.
Yeah this forum is useful for many perspectives, one being the various ways others get bent over outside this state. Prop 13 has us paying about .75% on actual value ATM. Paying over $1300/month on taxes....yowza. My second house payment was $1300 all in. :wap:
We paid $750/mo all in for our KY house. Taxes alone on the same place here would be about $1100/mo. Fuck. New. York.

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:46 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:I'm at $500/mo for taxes now. :ohwell:
That's roughly what we've decided is "acceptable" if we like a house enough, which leaves basically no properties available in a 50 mile radius.

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:41 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:08 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:46 pm That's roughly what we've decided is "acceptable" if we like a house enough, which leaves basically no properties available in a 50 mile radius.
Oof.
If we're cool with giving up the garage and doubling the commute and living in a "dead" little town that's got nothing left but blight and drugs, then we can get a nice house for $175k and $6xxx/yr in taxes. It will never appreciate and we'd never be able to re-sell it though.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1643 ... 7009_zpid/?

https://chemung.sdgnys.com/taxbill.aspx ... &Hist=True

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:47 pm
by troyguitar

[user not found] wrote:
Desertbreh wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:22 pm Yeah this forum is useful for many perspectives, one being the various ways others get bent over outside this state. Prop 13 has us paying about .75% on actual value ATM. Paying over $1300/month on taxes....yowza. My second house payment was $1300 all in. :wap:
FWIW our income tax is super low. 1% local and 3% state before deductions. Sales tax is 6%. I prefer paying it on the property.
Hahaha.

We pay it all. 50% more than you on property, 50% more than you on sales, and 100% more than you on state income!

:alpo: luck indeed.

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:59 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
CorvetteWaxer wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:21 pm

Well, on property taxes, maybe.. but everything else they bend us over and don't use lube. Plus, our $600k house is a basic starter house that's maybe 1400 square feet... in the Bay area those don't really exist. The "starter homes" I've seen recently brag about "Starting in the low $980's!"
Right... My house to be valued at 600k would be as it is (3600 squares), and fully upgraded inside and out. The pay area math I've done (similar home, similar school quality, similar distance to work) pushes me way over a million and about a 10% increase in pay.
3600 sq ft holy fuck, I didn't realize your... place... was that huge.

Prices in your area are the same as mine in that case. 3600 + 3 cars with modern interior would be $500k+ easy here too. That's a truly :alpo: sized :haus:


Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:18 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:47 pm Hahaha.

We pay it all. 50% more than you on property, 50% more than you on sales, and 100% more than you on state income!

:alpo: luck indeed.
Not many people fighting to live in PA though.
No one wants to be here either. Doesn't stop it from being one of the most expensive places in the world.

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:47 pm
by goIftdibrad
troyguitar wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:18 pm
[user not found] wrote:
Not many people fighting to live in PA though.
No one wants to be here either. Doesn't stop it from being one of the most expensive places in the world.
it's like shelter is a fundamental human need

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:27 pm
by Tar
$1 to 1.5M for 3k sqft detached in Toronto area... like anywhere within 70 miles short of Brampton or Scarborough which in both cases are mainly :disgust: .

Even with the exchange rate it's still pretty much a cool mil. A 1bdrm condo is 400 to 500k.... all of the pricing discussed sounds cheap in comparison. :jelly:

Not jealous of the property taxes doe, I'm at 6k/yr on assessed house price of 750k but get hooped on income/sales tax side. We also pay a one time land transfer fee, in my case of 23k when I purchased. They get you one way or another, but PA > NY state from the sound of it.

One thing that makes it worth the hassle in this market is that house prices that continue to climb in good times and bad. Immigration is the driving force here. 300k immigrants (mainly amirs/azns) per yr, to the nation spread out among three or four cities, T-dot receiving the bulk of that.

Most big cities are like that here and from the look of things in some states too (NY, Cali)... mainly cities with major revenue earning capacity.

Getting back to the 2-300k purchase... I think it's totally reasonable to buy a house in that range even if it doesn't appreciate assuming the person lives in it long enough to enjoy it being paid off or nearly paid off so COL is cheaper then rent when is helpful once we inevitably all turn into :wap: Based on my experience here, I'd opt for whatever housing market is most desirable for anyone planning to get out in a shorter time frame then 10 or 15 yrs mainly because it will have a better resale value and potential buyer pool.

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:33 am
by troyguitar
Tarspin wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:27 pmBased on my experience here, I'd opt for whatever housing market is most desirable for anyone planning to get out in a shorter time frame then 10 or 15 yrs mainly because it will have a better resale value and potential buyer pool.
That is indeed the problem - nothing here appears to be desirable in general. Case in point, this :haus: is beautiful and in the best part of its town... and has been for sale for just shy of 2 years with the asking price down to less than they paid for it in 2016:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1009 ... 7855_zpid/?

You can't even count on selling for what you paid (minus interest, taxes, closing and moving costs...) let alone keeping up with any kind of inflation.

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:54 am
by Tar
troyguitar wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:33 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:27 pmBased on my experience here, I'd opt for whatever housing market is most desirable for anyone planning to get out in a shorter time frame then 10 or 15 yrs mainly because it will have a better resale value and potential buyer pool.
That is indeed the problem - nothing here appears to be desirable in general. Case in point, this :haus: is beautiful and in the best part of its town... and has been for sale for just shy of 2 years with the asking price down to less than they paid for it in 2016:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1009 ... 7855_zpid/?

You can't even count on selling for what you paid (minus interest, taxes, closing and moving costs...) let alone keeping up with any kind of inflation.
Brutal... is there a chance that will stay longer than 10 years or will you guys be leaving at the earliest opportunity? One option might be to buy a rental property in a high demand city and pay property management to find and manage people locally. In that case scenario you continue to live how you are but benefit from owning property that actually builds equity. Just another option.

Home chat 1.0

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:13 am
by goIftdibrad
troyguitar wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:33 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:27 pmBased on my experience here, I'd opt for whatever housing market is most desirable for anyone planning to get out in a shorter time frame then 10 or 15 yrs mainly because it will have a better resale value and potential buyer pool.
That is indeed the problem - nothing here appears to be desirable in general. Case in point, this :haus: is beautiful and in the best part of its town... and has been for sale for just shy of 2 years with the asking price down to less than they paid for it in 2016:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1009 ... 7855_zpid/?

You can't even count on selling for what you paid (minus interest, taxes, closing and moving costs...) let alone keeping up with any kind of inflation.
this is why you shouldn't buy. the risk is huge and with taxes you are gaurenteed to loose real money. Lots.

Re: Home chat 1.0

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:05 pm
by troyguitar
[user not found] wrote:
troyguitar wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:33 am That is indeed the problem - nothing here appears to be desirable in general. Case in point, this :haus: is beautiful and in the best part of its town... and has been for sale for just shy of 2 years with the asking price down to less than they paid for it in 2016:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1009 ... 7855_zpid/?

You can't even count on selling for what you paid (minus interest, taxes, closing and moving costs...) let alone keeping up with any kind of inflation.
If you're under 10 years you will lose money buying. If you're over you'll make money.

There is NOTHING wrong with losing money on a home purchase if the home brings you happiness that a rental wouldn't or can't.
I'm not convinced that any time horizon would lead to a savings over renting up here, but it's not really a question of cost at this point - at least not if we're only considering "cheap" houses in "low" tax neighborhoods. Worst case we lose maybe $50k, lots of money but really not life changing.

It's largely a question of feelings over :fax:

Would we actually feel better in any of these places or would it be a big PITA time sink that provides no relief from the :eeyore: we are experiencing here? Obviously no one can answer that, but that's the concern. I already know the :math: part, that's easy.