Home heating

Building Bag End? Did your front fall off? More leaks than a Chinese steamboat? Show us your pinterest projects!
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Johnny_P
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We talk about this a lot so I figured it would be worth its own thread.


I'll start it out with this.

Anyone ever bleed their radiators? Couple questions. I assume the process is as follows:
-Shut off the heater and let the system cool down a bit (based on temp gauge at boiler (it's not a boiler but whatever))
-Get a radiator key from local poverty hardware store and open the radiator bleed valves until water dribbles out then shut. Start at the lowest point in the house and work upwards
-Check system pressure and top off to..... 20 psi??? :iono: if needed

I'd also like to blow down the boiler to get rid of sediment and such. Cool it down, hook up a hose, and let er' rip for a little bit? I imagine I'll need to re-bleed the system if I do that.

The boiler is probably a good 20 years old. Amazing it hasn't shit the bed yet.
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I ran my heater for the first time this weekend.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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ChrisoftheNorth
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Boilers are surprisingly robust if cared for. Mine's around 40 years old, and runs like a champ.

While we have 2-pipe steam (no bleeding), your bleeding methodology is exactly what I've read and how it's approach it, personally.

And I drain the boiler entirely when I start using A/C exclusively in the spring/summer...leave it dry, then refill it in the fall. It's good to get sediment out, and I've had a number of boiler guys recommend this for boiler lyfe.

But again, your procedure is right. Wait for it to warm up a tad (It's supposed to later this week), Turn off the heat and let it cool down. Then connect a hose to the rain valve, run the hose to a floor drain (or wherever), crack the drain valve and let it go. You have two options: drain it entirely or just drain it until the water runs clear. If you do the latter, I'd repeat the process once a week for a month or so. That's what I did with my boiler last winter and it worked wonders.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote:Boilers are surprisingly robust if cared for. Mine's around 40 years old, and runs like a champ.

While we have 2-pipe steam (no bleeding), your bleeding methodology is exactly what I've read and how it's approach it, personally.

And I drain the boiler entirely when I start using A/C exclusively in the spring/summer...leave it dry, then refill it in the fall. It's good to get sediment out, and I've had a number of boiler guys recommend this for boiler lyfe.

But again, your procedure is right. Wait for it to warm up a tad (It's supposed to later this week), Turn off the heat and let it cool down. Then connect a hose to the rain valve, run the hose to a floor drain (or wherever), crack the drain valve and let it go. You have two options: drain it entirely or just drain it until the water runs clear. If you do the latter, I'd repeat the process once a week for a month or so. That's what I did with my boiler last winter and it worked wonders.
Alright cool. I probably missed the boat on the full drain, that would have been Saturday. Might try and do a short flush out if it warms up this week. Heater is working fine, no real need to do anything to it. I just think I'm losing efficiency in the system since upstairs is so much colder than downstairs. I know for a fact there is air in the system, and it's a few PSI low so touching that up should help.
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Johnny_P wrote:
Detroit wrote:Boilers are surprisingly robust if cared for. Mine's around 40 years old, and runs like a champ.

While we have 2-pipe steam (no bleeding), your bleeding methodology is exactly what I've read and how it's approach it, personally.

And I drain the boiler entirely when I start using A/C exclusively in the spring/summer...leave it dry, then refill it in the fall. It's good to get sediment out, and I've had a number of boiler guys recommend this for boiler lyfe.

But again, your procedure is right. Wait for it to warm up a tad (It's supposed to later this week), Turn off the heat and let it cool down. Then connect a hose to the rain valve, run the hose to a floor drain (or wherever), crack the drain valve and let it go. You have two options: drain it entirely or just drain it until the water runs clear. If you do the latter, I'd repeat the process once a week for a month or so. That's what I did with my boiler last winter and it worked wonders.
Alright cool. I probably missed the boat on the full drain, that would have been Saturday. Might try and do a short flush out if it warms up this week. Heater is working fine, no real need to do anything to it. I just think I'm losing efficiency in the system since upstairs is so much colder than downstairs. I know for a fact there is air in the system, and it's a few PSI low so touching that up should help.
Yea, definitely try a flush. It won't take long for the water to run clear, just keep an eye on it.

And I don't know if hot water systems need a full drain or not. Wap has a hot water system, he may be able to give more info.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I'd also love to pull the vent pipe off and clean the heat exchanger. I'm sure its full of shit. The vent pipe at least does work (not blocked). I checked that when I re-lit it last week.

Pro tip: To check if a natural draft fired equipment vent is clear or not, turn on the equipment and give it a minute to kick on full bore. Then hold a match up to the gap between the equipment exhaust and the vent stack. The flame should be pulled into the stack not pushed away from it.
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Johnny_P wrote:I'd also love to pull the vent pipe off and clean the heat exchanger. I'm sure its full of shit. The vent pipe at least does work (not blocked). I checked that when I re-lit it last week.

Pro tip: To check if a natural draft fired equipment vent is clear or not, turn on the equipment and give it a minute to kick on full bore. Then hold a match up to the gap between the equipment exhaust and the vent stack. The flame should be pulled into the stack not pushed away from it.
:impressive:

The guy that installed our minisplits did a tune-up on the boiler, including cleaning. Probably why it works so well. I will be using this method next year when I'd have to pay him.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote:
Johnny_P wrote:I'd also love to pull the vent pipe off and clean the heat exchanger. I'm sure its full of shit. The vent pipe at least does work (not blocked). I checked that when I re-lit it last week.

Pro tip: To check if a natural draft fired equipment vent is clear or not, turn on the equipment and give it a minute to kick on full bore. Then hold a match up to the gap between the equipment exhaust and the vent stack. The flame should be pulled into the stack not pushed away from it.
:impressive:

The guy that installed our minisplits did a tune-up on the boiler, including cleaning. Probably why it works so well. I will be using this method next year when I'd have to pay him.
I wouldn't mind paying for that. But only if they were to do an acid wash on the entire heating system. To clear the pipes of scale inside and thus increase efficiency. I can do all the other stuff.
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Johnny_P wrote:
Detroit wrote: :impressive:

The guy that installed our minisplits did a tune-up on the boiler, including cleaning. Probably why it works so well. I will be using this method next year when I'd have to pay him.
I wouldn't mind paying for that. But only if they were to do an acid wash on the entire heating system. To clear the pipes of scale inside and thus increase efficiency. I can do all the other stuff.
They replaced a pipe on the back of the boiler that drained condensate back. It was rusted nearly solid. Seriously, like a 2" pipe that was reduced to maybe a quarter of an inch. He left it, I should take a picture of it when I get home. It's :impressive:

I'm terrified of how much of the rest of the system looks like that. Boiler breh claims I should be good, but to keep an eye out for leaks. Since my system is steam, there's really no way to clean the pipes out since it should kind of do it naturally.

If I were you, I'd absolutely pay someone to clean out the pipes in the spring or fall.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote:
Johnny_P wrote: I wouldn't mind paying for that. But only if they were to do an acid wash on the entire heating system. To clear the pipes of scale inside and thus increase efficiency. I can do all the other stuff.
They replaced a pipe on the back of the boiler that drained condensate back. It was rusted nearly solid. Seriously, like a 2" pipe that was reduced to maybe a quarter of an inch. He left it, I should take a picture of it when I get home. It's :impressive:

I'm terrified of how much of the rest of the system looks like that. Boiler breh claims I should be good, but to keep an eye out for leaks. Since my system is steam, there's really no way to clean the pipes out since it should kind of do it naturally.

If I were you, I'd absolutely pay someone to clean out the pipes in the spring or fall.
It should be pretty easy. Citrus based acid, put it in the system, circulate for a few hours, and then drain it out. Where I don't want to get involved is determining the acid strength or the circulation time. But yeah it should free up all the scale and bring the pipes back to a more full thickness.

Or create a leak. Or clog the system. And if you don't get all the acid out, it'll destroy your heat exchanger as acid gets more aggressive with higher temps.

That pipe scale necking down thing is a common phenomenon in my refinery. 3/4" ID pipes end up having a coat hanger clearance after 20 years in service.
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Johnny_P wrote:
Detroit wrote: They replaced a pipe on the back of the boiler that drained condensate back. It was rusted nearly solid. Seriously, like a 2" pipe that was reduced to maybe a quarter of an inch. He left it, I should take a picture of it when I get home. It's :impressive:

I'm terrified of how much of the rest of the system looks like that. Boiler breh claims I should be good, but to keep an eye out for leaks. Since my system is steam, there's really no way to clean the pipes out since it should kind of do it naturally.

If I were you, I'd absolutely pay someone to clean out the pipes in the spring or fall.
It should be pretty easy. Citrus based acid, put it in the system, circulate for a few hours, and then drain it out. Where I don't want to get involved is determining the acid strength or the circulation time. But yeah it should free up all the scale and bring the pipes back to a more full thickness.

Or create a leak. Or clog the system. And if you don't get all the acid out, it'll destroy your heat exchanger as acid gets more aggressive with higher temps.

That pipe scale necking down thing is a common phenomenon in my refinery. 3/4" ID pipes end up having a coat hanger clearance after 20 years in service.
Yea, the chemical shit is best left to a professional, IMO. They'll know the best way to do it all I bet...but the creating a leak concern is real.

Fucking houses.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote:
Johnny_P wrote: It should be pretty easy. Citrus based acid, put it in the system, circulate for a few hours, and then drain it out. Where I don't want to get involved is determining the acid strength or the circulation time. But yeah it should free up all the scale and bring the pipes back to a more full thickness.

Or create a leak. Or clog the system. And if you don't get all the acid out, it'll destroy your heat exchanger as acid gets more aggressive with higher temps.

That pipe scale necking down thing is a common phenomenon in my refinery. 3/4" ID pipes end up having a coat hanger clearance after 20 years in service.
Yea, the chemical shit is best left to a professional, IMO. They'll know the best way to do it all I bet...but the creating a leak concern is real.

Fucking houses.
It's just a bunch of pipes, heat exchangers, a pump, some valves, and a burner. I actually don't mind working on this kind of stuff as I do it every day anyway. Of house shit, I'd say these systems make the most sense to me. The rest of it is 1400's technology.
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Johnny_P wrote:
Detroit wrote: Yea, the chemical shit is best left to a professional, IMO. They'll know the best way to do it all I bet...but the creating a leak concern is real.

Fucking houses.
It's just a bunch of pipes, heat exchangers, a pump, some valves, and a burner. I actually don't mind working on this kind of stuff as I do it every day anyway. Of house shit, I'd say these systems make the most sense to me. The rest of it is 1400's technology.
:notbad:

They were black magic to me for a while until I really took the time to learn it. Now, I find it simple and rather :impressive: The 2-pipe steam system in my house is a work of art and a technological wonder, IMO. Works amazing too...love the dead silent operation and warmth it provides.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote:
Johnny_P wrote: It's just a bunch of pipes, heat exchangers, a pump, some valves, and a burner. I actually don't mind working on this kind of stuff as I do it every day anyway. Of house shit, I'd say these systems make the most sense to me. The rest of it is 1400's technology.
:notbad:

They were black magic to me for a while until I really took the time to learn it. Now, I find it simple and rather :impressive: The 2-pipe steam system in my house is a work of art and a technological wonder, IMO for 100+ Y/o tech. Works amazing too...love the dead silent operation and warmth it provides.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote:
Johnny_P wrote: It's just a bunch of pipes, heat exchangers, a pump, some valves, and a burner. I actually don't mind working on this kind of stuff as I do it every day anyway. Of house shit, I'd say these systems make the most sense to me. The rest of it is 1400's technology.
:notbad:

They were black magic to me for a while until I really took the time to learn it. Now, I find it simple and rather :impressive: The 2-pipe steam system in my house is a work of art and a technological wonder, IMO. Works amazing too...love the dead silent operation and warmth it provides.
Yeah steam is great. Once a steam system is set up correctly it'll work for years without intervention.
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Melon wrote:I ran my heater for the first time this weekend.
same here. its 33 outside. Im unimpressed with this new heater bullshit. the fan never really turns up (variable speed) so it just kinda falls out and takes a while to fire up. Erin is now paranoid and im calling the installer out to check it. BUt ive lost his number.... :dislike:
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Johnny_P wrote:
Detroit wrote: :notbad:

They were black magic to me for a while until I really took the time to learn it. Now, I find it simple and rather :impressive: The 2-pipe steam system in my house is a work of art and a technological wonder, IMO. Works amazing too...love the dead silent operation and warmth it provides.
Yeah steam is great. Once a steam system is set up correctly it'll work for years without intervention.
That's what I'm hoping...but it turned 90 years old this year. The boiler is half that...and hopefully has more life left in it. I'm worried about the pipes scaling, doe.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote:
Johnny_P wrote: Yeah steam is great. Once a steam system is set up correctly it'll work for years without intervention.
That's what I'm hoping...but it turned 90 years old this year. The boiler is half that...and hopefully has more life left in it. I'm worried about the pipes scaling, doe.
:impressive:
Eventually you'll have to replace it. But if it works it works.
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Johnny_P wrote:
Detroit wrote: That's what I'm hoping...but it turned 90 years old this year. The boiler is half that...and hopefully has more life left in it. I'm worried about the pipes scaling, doe.
:impressive:
Eventually you'll have to replace it. But if it works it works.
:dat:

Just hoping it takes a long time to die. Not my track record with this house, doe...

Luckily, the heat pumps can keep the house comfortable, they're just not as uniform as the radiators or efficient below freezing.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Recirculating hot water system guy checking in. I grew up with this method of heat and firmly believe it is by far the best way to heat a home-silent, dust-free, and efficient.

As background, my boiler is approaching 25 years old and, knock wood, is still running flawlessly.

Regarding bleeding, I have always done it with the boiler ON and running. You want the system to be pressurized so any air is forced out. I start at the highest radiator furthest from the boiler (because air will tend to travel up the system) and open the drain valve, with a cup underneath, for a few seconds. If water comes out without bubbles for a solid 2-3 seconds, you're good to close the valve and move on to the next rad. Usually though, you'll get air. You can actually feel air inside the rad by feeling at the bottom of it and moving your hand up. The lower parts of the rad should be warm (where the water is), then it'll get cooler to the touch as you move your hand up. This is where the air would be. Keep the valve open to let the air bleed out. You will slowly feel the heat creep up the rad as water replaces the air. Once you finally get bubble-free water coming out for a couple seconds the whole rad should be warm, so close the valve, move on to the next, then rinse and repeat until all the rads are bled. There is no need to add water or adjust water level or pressure in the system. There is a pressure-sensitive intake valve in the system coming from the house water supply, just upstream of the expansion tank, so It will self-regulate.

As far as draining the whole system, my previous boiler guy (since retired) told me it was fine to service a boiler every 2 years since they are so mechanically simple. My new boiler guy concurred. So every other year I get the system drained, the burners cleaned, all the internals blown and vacuumed out, the electronics checked, and the draft checked. It costs around $125-ish, so at around $60-$65/year of maintenance it's not worth it to me to monkey with it myself and I know it's done correctly and things that I won't even think of or am not able to check myself (electronics, etc.) are serviced by a trained pro. Money well spent, imo.

Let me know if you have any other questions.=
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Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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I wish we had a hot water system. The 2-pipe steam is great when it works, but just so damned complicated when it does.

But I realized yesterday that the issue with my water hammer was the clogged condensate pipe we had replaced causing water to backup the condensate lines and hammer. I fixed it last year by draining some water when it would hammer, and that would solve it for a week...because I I was letting the condensate lines drain, but it always came back. I fucked with steam traps, etc unnecessarily and blew some decent money on that. Oh well, I learned I guess.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Image

So what the hell am I looking at?

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Calvinball wrote:Image

So what the hell am I looking at?

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Boiler? Looks like one kinda.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Calvinball wrote:Image

So what the hell am I looking at?

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a huge fucking mess if that T&P valve ever opens. run that bitch outside ASAP
brain go brrrrrr
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