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ChrisoftheNorth
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Huckleberry wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:04 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:32 pm
With short primaries, tube diameter is even less important right? Especially going with 2.5" on either side into 3". This thing is going to sound :megusta: and I vote for a 5x8 oval in the stock location with a tip mounted right to it. Muffler is slightly visible, will look a tad more sleeper like that.
Yeah, the short primary length should help with making power in the upper RPMs. I'm leaning towards the oval muffler, too. May even go with a 5x11 so it sounds a bit more subdued than it really is.
I think subdued is better on this thing.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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The way you overcome these fabrication challenges is so beyond any skill level I will ever have I'm just :amazing: every time I check in here. Also, interesting on the "Fram Racing Filter." I thought Fram was garbage.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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Desertbreh
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Also those aluminum heads with the valve covers and headers....so much :jimp: engine porn.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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Huckleberry
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Desertbreh wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:54 pm The way you overcome these fabrication challenges is so beyond any skill level I will ever have I'm just :amazing: every time I check in here. Also, interesting on the "Fram Racing Filter." I thought Fram was garbage.
To be fair, I farmed out the valve cover since I don't have a TIG welder for welding aluminum. I think the biggest hurdle to overcome is the reluctance to cut into a brand new piece that you just purchased. Things get easier after that first step.

The lower tier Fram filters are garbage, but their higher end filters are pretty damn nice. The racing filters sacrifice a bit of filtering for flow (94% efficient at 20 microns vs 99% with their Ultra), but even then, a lot of other filters are rated at 25 microns or larger. Plus, the racing filter is designed to withstand 200psi and even has a screen on the bypass.
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Huckleberry
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I got a little bit more work done last night. I added five quarts of oil, and used my homemade priming tool, which consists of a distributor with the cam gear removed and a mechanical oil gauge I got from Pep Boys. Using a drill, I saw around 72 PSI.

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I reinstalled the Tick Performance billet oil drive and laid down some RTV, including a little dab on the intake gasket where I nicked the sealing surface when trimming the gaskets to the ports.
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And here she is with the TPIS monoblade:
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I'm really happy with how this motor has turned out. Now, I need to figure out where to mount the ignition coils.
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Hot damn, that is :fap: worthy.
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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Awesome progress, I hadn't caught up in a bit. That motor is gorgeous, really amazing work man!
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I love the attention to detail. So many people just slap CORVETTE fuel rail covers on and call it good. I vastly prefer the stealth approach you take, it's not a damned Corvette!
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:34 pm I love the attention to detail. So many people just slap CORVETTE fuel rail covers on and call it good. I vastly prefer the stealth approach you take, it's not a damned Corvette!
Yeah, that's just laziness. A lot of times, I will see someone bragging about how they did a swap in a weekend, and when I see the pictures, it certainly looks like it only took a weekend. That's not my cup of tea. I prefer to shoot for the styling to be clean and subdued, while trying to fit in a callback. For example, the "5.0 Liter FI" is a rocker decal for a 3rd Gen Firebird.
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Huckleberry wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:11 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:34 pm I love the attention to detail. So many people just slap CORVETTE fuel rail covers on and call it good. I vastly prefer the stealth approach you take, it's not a damned Corvette!
Yeah, that's just laziness. A lot of times, I will see someone bragging about how they did a swap in a weekend, and when I see the pictures, it certainly looks like it only took a weekend. That's not my cup of tea. I prefer to shoot for the styling to be clean and subdued, while trying to fit in a callback. For example, the "5.0 Liter FI" is a rocker decal for a 3rd Gen Firebird.
I've seen some higher end swaps done slapping on Corvette covers. Early on, it was for shock value. When my dad and I swapped an LT1 in our 80 CJ back in 1999, we threw the Vette covers on because of the response from people at car shows when we threw the hood up. A Corvette engine in a Jeep just :mindblown: people.

But these days, that just feels lazy or rushed.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Update time.

I got the Lee's power steering reservoir installed. If I were to do it again, I would have gone with -6AN fittings instead of the barbs solely due to the fact that the barb fittings protrude out way more than they ever have a right to.
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I also picked up some Borgeson steering joints since the joints on the stock shaft were binding. Plus, now I have the option of changing up the steering shaft angle should I decide to go a different route with the headers since the one end of the joint is 3/4" DD. Since they are plain steel, I sprayed them with some clear:
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Instead of cleaning up the stock crossover tube, I decided to make my own crossover. For one, the stock tube seemed questionable, and secondly, it also runs down the passenger side of the engine and I need it to run down the driver's side. I cleaned up the factory bolts and got some M14 banjo to 3/8" barb fittings:
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I finished it off with 3/8" heater hose and a barb tee fitting. Fun fact: none of the parts stores have 3/8" heater hose around me. In the picture, you can also see the 944's oil pressure sender so I can use the factory oil pressure gauge:
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The correct Sanderson header came in to clear the steering shaft. One day, I may revisit the headers, but we'll see how she does with these. These are the same headers that Fiero guys and Jag guys will use for their swaps:
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Plenty of clearance now:
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This header does stick out further than the other units I was trying, but this part number is what is designated as working for the 944 swaps. I may need to take a hammer to the frame rails, but we shall see.
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I also ordered a 1LE intake elbow from Dorman. These intake elbows are wide open and, despite having the provision for the sound baffle, there is no opening to that baffle. I wound up trimming that protrusion because it was hitting the electric water pump:
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Since the TPIS throttle body I bought doesn't have a fresh air port for the PCV system, I had to make one. I found a 5/16" to 1/4" hose coupler. Having the larger diameter part is important:
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Cut the 5/16" end off so you have a nice little base:
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Drill a hole slightly smaller than 1/4":
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And push the barb through from the inside. The lip will prevent the barb from pulling all the way through, and the barbs will prevent it from falling back in:
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Next up is the dipstick. The stock dipsticks that I have were interfering with the headers. So, I ordered a flexible dipstick off eBay. I used one of these dipsticks before on the El Camino, and back then, I learned of a design flaw that causes the dipstick to bind when there is any sort of bend in the tube, which kind of defeats the purpose of being flexible. Essentially, the below piece is tapered against the flow of the dipstick when inserting it into the motor:
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So, the fix that has worked for me is to cut that taper off:
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And then create a taper in the correct direction with a step drill bit:
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I also had to bend the mounting tab to position the dipstick correctly:
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I decided to mock up the bellhousing in the car so I could measure the depth of the torque tube's input shaft from the end of bellhousing. If was in bolting up the bellhousing that I discovered I had installed the adapter plate upside down. Way to go, guys. Not a single one of you caught this.

So, I flipped it around:
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And then bolted up the bellhousing to take my measurements. I have the numbers written down somewhere. Once the engine is off the stand, I'll measure the distance from the bellhousing to the pilot bearing to make sure the torque tube is going to engage it properly. I'm also going to pop the throwout bearing on and measure that:
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There is a stud on the firewall that needs to be trimmed so I can move the torqetube back, but there will still be plenty of clearance behind the engine:
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And that clearance gave me an idear for the coil pack location:
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So, after spending some time standing in the fastener aisle at the hardware store and staring at the bins while running ideas through my head
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I came up with this:
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And they are still tucked nicely behind the cylinder head:
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I'm really happy with how the bracket turned out. It was just tacked together in the pictures for mock-up. I've since gone back and welded it all together and also added a gusset on one of the legs. I just need to make one for the other bank of cylinder and then I will be able to make up the spark plug wires.
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Looking great!
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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5/7 coil pack placement. :megusta:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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It's been a minute. I wanted to save on updating until the motor was in the car, but unfortunately, that isn't the case just yet. We are currently in the process of downsizing the in-laws so that they have a house that they can afford and physically maintain. And since the wife's father has been a hoarder his entire life, we have just finished loading up the third 30-yard dumpster and will be moving onto a fourth. Needless to say, that entire process has become a time suck, as has the continued shipping delays thanks to COVID and online shopping having become the coping mechanism of choice for the entire world.

Anyways, I finished the coil pack mounts. As it turns out, I couldn't just flip the one template I made and needed to make an entirely different template for the passenger side head. Go figure.
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The plug wire kit from Taylor that I picked up came with 45* boots for the ignition coils. When I was mocking things up, I didn't like how the wires were going to lay, so I placed an order for 90* boots. Once those came in, the second issue I had was that Taylor called these "universal LS wire kits," and it would appear that they felt universal wire assembly instructions would suffice. The problem is that the universal instructions don't include any mention of these bastards:
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After trying to figure out where these pieces lie in the puzzle, I stumbled upon the answer in, of all places, a Summit Racing comment. The comment even included a hand-drawn diagram of how these things go together. I promptly responded to that comment thanking the person for providing what Taylor failed to provide, and went about assembling the wires. The first wire was the toughest with the most trial and error. I started with the wire that required the longest length, because if I messed up, I could trim the wire down and use it for a cylinder requiring less length. Here is the process that worked for me:

I packed the boot full of dielectric grease. I tried silicone spray at first, and it did not work. Dielectric grease was the ticket to success.
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I then inserted the wire into the boot. Since it is a 90* boot, I straightened it out to give the wire as straight of a path as possible. On some of the wires, I would receive resistance, at which point I would pull the wire back out, pack the boot full of more grease, and then push it on through. **PINTEREST LIFE HACK** - The wire will push out a bunch of grease. Just wipe off that grease and apply it to the next boot.
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I used some wire strippers and cut the insulation back by about an inch and folded the conductor over:
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And with some 8mm wire crimpers I found online, I crimped the terminal on:
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The fun part was installing the plastic guide. It is an extremely tight fit. The approach I wound up settling on is similar to installing an oil pick-up tube on an older oil pump. I put the plastic guide in a socket and secured it in my vise. I then used a wrench that wrapped around the wire while gripping the end of the crimped terminal, and then I used a hammer to tap the terminal into the plastic guide. Sometimes, the wire's insulation would begin to bunch by the crimp. In those cases, I would use a small flathead to push the insulation into the guide, or I would take a razor and trim it.
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The terminal will bottom out into a lip on the guide:
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And then there should be enough remaining grease to allow you to easily pull the boot over. You will feel the guide fall into place in the boot:
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Repeat the process seven more times, and you'll have some plug wires:
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The next thing I needed to do was set the depth of the input shaft so that it would actually engage minor things like the clutch and pilot bearing. Since I already had the number from when I mocked up the bellhousing on the torque tube, I just needed to get the motor off the stand and mock up the bellhousing on it. That's when I discovered that the engine plate did not fit. This little shield-esque shape in front of the input shaft was not going to cut it:
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So, out came the angle grinder. And two of those extra bolt ears fell victim, as well. They weren't playing well with my lovely coil pack placement. This was the end result:
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With that out of the way, I could finally measure from the end of the bellhousing to the face of the pilot bearing:
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I wound up using a pulley puller to push the shaft in the torque tube forward by 13/16" of an inch. This will allow for the shaft to have about .4" of engagement with the pilot bearing. The shaft actually moves in the torque tube rather easily, and pressed forward by me spinning the puller by hand. I had a friend stand at the engine bay and watch the tube to make sure I didn't go too far forward.

Here is a picture of the puller setup on the front of the torque tube...because my friend wasn't watching closely enough:
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Next up was verifying the bellhousing alignment. I don't think this is as critical with a torque tube, but I wanted to verify it. There are more numbers than there should be, but the first go around of measuring was botched after I realized the bellhousing was not sitting fully on the dowels and I had to tap them further out for full engagement.
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Sure enough, I needed .021" offset dowels to get things square. I ordered a set from RobbMcPerformance. While I played the waiting game on the dowels, I decided to get the starter fitted up. It is a unit from Speedway Motors. It isn't infinitely clockable like the Powermaster I have on the GTO, but this motor isn't running long tubes, so it should suffice. I wound up needed to shim the starter out to get adequate clearance from the flywheel.
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Once the dowels arrived, I put them on a flat surface and marked the offset side:
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I probably should have verified that the offset was truly .021" before installing the dowels. When I fit everything back up, I was still getting .008" of runout, which tells me that I either measured incorrectly and needed a custom .028" offset dowel, or I was accidentally sent a .014" offset dowel. Either way, I'm leaving it as I think it will be fine with the torque tube.

My clutch setup is a bit of a hodgepodge. I wound up using a billet steel flywheel from Spec (SC35S).
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The clutch disc is a Ram 973. This is a 10.5" clutch that is splined for early Mopar cars. The 1" x 23 spline fits perfectly on the 944 torque tube. This disc is their Powergrip series with a full face organic on the flywheel side and a raid metallic puck on the pressure plate side. I had a similar hybrid disc in my GTO many years ago and it was a great unit.
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The pressure plate is a Ram 851. It is a 10.5" lightweight pressure plate.
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Altogether, the flywheel weight is 18.66lbs, the pressure plate is 11.8lbs, and the clutch disc is 5lbs, totaling 35.46lbs for the entire assembly. I could have saved an additional 8lbs going with Spec's aluminum flywheel, but I think this weight will strike a nice balance for driving it on the street. I can always swap to a lighter flywheel later on if I feel so inclined. Easier said than done, but it is still doable.
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This brings me to the latest hangup. Back when my dad was planning on using the Muncie in his Impala, I had purchased a Quarter Master hydraulic release bearing for the clutch. Since he upgraded to a TKO500 and wound up not needing that bearing, I had planned on using it for my 944 since my adapter plate uses a Muncie bearing retainer. Unfortunately, after measuring for clutch gap, I found that the bearing sticks out about .028" beyond the clutch fingers, which isn't good. I initially looked around for a bearing retainer that was shallower and would allow the bearing to sit closer to the adapter, but that doesn't seem to exist. After looking around, I had two choices, and both required the purchase of a new bearing kit: Howe 82876, which is for a T5 and has a compressed height of 1.52" instead of the Quarter Master's 1.69", or McLeod 1300-1, which is for a Muncie "when the distance from the rear surface of the bell housing to the top of the release fingers on the pressure plate is 2.31 in. to 2.50 in," and it replaces the entire bearing retainer. The price of the Howe is much more appealing, but after reading reviews, it appears that the Howe units are prone to leaking in short time, and I wasn't really crazy that the unit didn't have a separate arm for the bearing's body to ride on the stud.

You can see the arm I'm referring to on the Quarter Master:
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The Howe unit just places the stud between the fittings themselves:
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So, I ordered the McLeod bearing. Hopefully, it will arrive in a week and I can get the clutch gap set and finally move towards getting the engine into the car.
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D Griff
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This thread is better than Pornhub.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:57 pm This thread is better than Pornhub.
:dat: like every single thing is beyond my skill level.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:57 pm This thread is better than Pornhub.
Agreed.

Now, where's that lotion?
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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Huckleberry
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Just a quick update:

The bearing arrived from Jegs yesterday, so I decided to install it and check the clearances. The whole assembly bolts in place of the bearing retainer. The lines are swivel lines that are held in place with roll pins. This allows you to swivel the lines into the bellhousing and then route them where they need to go. It is a pretty sweet setup.
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I measured clearances again using my calipers against a straight edge. There isn't a need to subtract the straight edge's thickness from the measurement if you use the same straight edge for both measurements. McLeod calls for .100" to .250" of clearance. My clearance came to just under the .250" limit.
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I don't think I'll be getting the motor in the car this weekend due to needing to continue loading up dumpster number 4 at the in-laws. I also have to direct my attention to the GTO, since the Delaware DMV has decided to put a sniffer on everything "because COVID." Before, they would just check for codes, check for cats, and send you on your way, but I guess that is now too dangerous for them or something. So, the GTO failed the HC levels at 360ppm with a limit of 220ppm. Of course, the El Camino is allowed a limit of 400ppm, because reasons. So, my attention is fixated on that so I can correct the issue before registration runs out on May 15th.
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I guess I should actually update this or something. I lost total interest in the project and sold everything.
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Huckleberry wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:42 pm I guess I should actually update this or something. I lost total interest in the project and sold everything.
:howdareu:
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It was finally time to get the motor in the car. Since it was going to need to go in from underneath, I picked up a furniture dolly to set the engine on:
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I bolted a chain to the factory tow loops on the frame and picked the nose up with the engine hoist:
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And since the jackstands weren't enough, they went onto dollies, which also helped with keeping the car movable. It may seem precarious, but it is solid:
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The motor in position to be raised into place:
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And up she goes:
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It was around this point where we discovered the first issue: my lovely coil pack placement was not going to work. They were interfering with the brake booster and were not allowing the engine to sit where it needed to sit. So, they had to come off. The next issue was that, despite whatever angle we tried, the torque tube would not fully seat into the bellhousing.
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This wound up being remedied with the load leveler. Once I put that on, we were able to get the angle correct and the tube fully seated. Once the motor was bolted in, I noticed that the valve cover was way too close to the brake booster for my liking. So, I pushed the car back to its spot and reached out to the guy who modified the valve cover to get some 1/2" crossmember spacers made.
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Six spacers in total are needed: one pair for the crossmember, one pair for the swaybar mounts, and one pair for the caster blocks. Once the spacers were ready, I gave them a quick shot of black paint. I even had the foresight to have the swaybar and crossmember spacers slotted so that I could just loosen the bolts and slide them in, leaving everything aligned.
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And for the first time, the motor is in place!
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And then my decision to run an electric water pump came back to haunt me....
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Drama!

That motor looks so good installed, :doe:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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So, the electric water pump has always been nagging me in the back of my mind. Since it just bolts onto the front of the factory water pump housing, it sticks out quite a bit, and as seen above, juts into the radiator's factory position. Reverting back to the factory style water pump wasn't an option, since that meant removing the intake manifold to reinstall the drive gear, get a new timing set with the correct cam gear to mesh with the drive gear, get a new timing cover where the hole wasn't plugged, and get a new water pump that wasn't gutted. Fuck all of that.

So, the first step was to pull the front nose off and see what I am dealing with.
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I then took a good, hard look at the factory radiator brackets:
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And decided that they needed to no longer be there. My spotweld cutter and Milwauke M12 Hackzall granted that wish :
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I then made some ever-so-slight adjustments to the front crossmember:
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My initial hope was to simply reuse the factory brackets and weld them into a new position that was further forward. However, that turned out to not work in my favor:
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I tried cutting the brackets down even further, but it just wasn't working, so I scrapped that idea entirely. Instead, I started rummaging through the random assortment of parts I have collected over the years for inspiration. I came upon some extra exhaust bushings that had come with my dad's Magnaflow exhaust for his Impala. They wound up fitting perfectly in the condenser ears, so I rigged everything up for positioning:
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Once I got the condenser in the position that I liked, I looked around for some factory body mounts that I could use to make a bracket. I came across two mounts that were perfect, so I made up some brackets out of some flat stock I had:
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I then welded a nut onto the back and painted them:
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For the upper mounts, I found two brackets that I had laying around. I think they were from the Impala, I really don't know, but I can say that this is precisely why I hang onto factory brackets, hardware, and such. I simply tacked them into place:
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With the condenser bolted in place, I did a test fit of the radiator and fan shroud:
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Plenty of clearance now:
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Now, take notice the brackets that Porsche was kind enough to install to the left and right of the radiator. That is where I decided to mount the radiator. I didn't have any tube stock laying around, so I went to Lowe's and spent $6 to get started. I cut the stock to the needed length, ground an angle on the ends, and welded nuts on the tops and bottoms.
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I wound up notching it for the fan shroud, welding nuts in the rear for additional supports, and welding studs on the bottom for supporting the fan shroud:
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The nice thing about this design is that every component is now independent of each other, meaning that I can pull the radiator separately from the condenser and vice versa. Of course, now that everything was bolted together, it meant that I had to pull everything back out for final welding, seam sealing, and paint. I welded in some filler panels to strengthen the crossmember to the frame rails, and then used up the remaining seam sealer leftover from the Impala. Had I gotten to it a day later, it probably would have hardened to the point of being unusable, because it was on the edge when I applied it.
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I covered everything and primed:
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Bingo, bango, bongo:
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Before reinstalling everything, I wanted to make sure the AC compressor was going to fit. The pulley was hitting the frame rail, so some hammer and paint took care of that:
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Once I got everything reassembled, I figured out that my engine oil cooler wasn't going to work. So, I ordered a smaller one and mounted it to the crossmember by drilling holes on the pinch weld and using u-clips. Now, it is also completely independent of the condenser:
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In that same vein, I relocated the power steering cooler so that it would be independent, too:
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Unfortunately, I had to reroute the power steering line because it was interfering with the AC pulley. Luckily, this gave me a reason to play with my Eastwood flaring tool, which is an incredible tool to have. I highly recommend it.
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And even though I had hammered the frame rail in anticipation of having clearance issues, I still had clearance issues with the driver side header. Hammering the frame with the engine in place was...fun.... I still need to sand and paint the hammered area:
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And lastly, the -AN 90* fitting I got to connect the line to the power steering pump was making contact with the accessory bracket. So, I wound up ordering a different adapter from Flaming River to get the clearance that I needed:
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And that's everything for now. I think the main takeaway from this segment is that plans don't always go as, uh, planned.
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Melon
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They never go as planned indeed.
Got enough room for the belt on that A/C pulley?
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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Huckleberry
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Melon wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:27 am They never go as planned indeed.
Got enough room for the belt on that A/C pulley?
I think so. There is more room than the picture lets on. If there winds up being an issue, then....

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