Yeah true. The limited is the only juan with full time AWD though. The others have transfer cases and are part time 4WD.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:42 amJust skip the Limited and get the Trail or the Offroad.
Agreed the chrome brace looks awful.
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Why wouldn't you want part time 4WD?Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:02 amYeah true. The limited is the only juan with full time AWD though. The others have transfer cases and are part time 4WD.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:42 am
Just skip the Limited and get the Trail or the Offroad.
Agreed the chrome brace looks awful.
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Ain't nobody dorifto in a 4R. Full time or auto AWD is better in the snow IMO. Which is probably 90% of the "off roading" any vehicle I buy will end up doing.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:15 amWhich is what you want, really. Less empeegeez penalty and ability to do dorifto selectively.
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I like having the option to put it in 4WD versus having it either in full time or auto, too much can break IMO and I just like knowing that it's in what I've picked and not guessing if/when it's gonna engage.Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:54 amAin't nobody dorifto in a 4R. Full time or auto AWD is better in the snow IMO. Which is probably 90% of the "off roading" any vehicle I buy will end up doing.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:15 am
Which is what you want, really. Less empeegeez penalty and ability to do dorifto selectively.
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I have made snonuts in F150s. Never wanted to do that in our Expedition because of the higher center of gravity and much higher overall weight. That thing listed HARD during normal driving and was very tippy. The trucks were always way more sure footed.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:50 amClearly you've never snorifto'd in a
It's lit AF, fam.
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I bought a Limited because I live in Colorado and I spend a LOT of time driving up tight curvy mountain passes with switch backs in the winter during snow storms. If its dumping snow I'm driving through it to ski fresh powder, the more the merrier. All winter long the mountain paces are either buried in snow or the surface is super inconsistent - hard packed snow in the shade, completely dry in the sun, and constantly changing back and forth between them.
I don't know how familiar you are with how a typical 4WD works but, it's RWD until you manually lock it in 4WD. When it's in 4WD the front and rear are locked together, they and mechanically forced to spin at the same speed, but that's not physically possible unless your driving straight. When your turning the path of the front wheels is longer than that of the rear wheels - an easy visual to picture in your head; a semi making a right hand corner at a stop light. They pull very very wide into the intersection almost crossing into oncoming traffic with the cab and yet the back wheels of the trailer barely making it around the corner without hopping up on the curb. The front traveled a lot further than the rear did. All vehicles do the same thing just on a more compact scale. With a vehicle locked in 4WD the drivetrain WILL bind up while trying to turn, the result is that something has to release the tension - either a front tire drags or a rear tire spins to make front axle speed match the rear axle speed, or the inner workings of the transfer case blow out the side of the housing and dump onto the road. The latter being the least likely but it does happen, especially over time with repeated binding. Try pulling into a parking space with a vehicle locked in 4WD, it'll get stuck from binding up so bad trying to turn right.
With full time 4WD the transfer case is always engaged sending power to the front and the rear but there is a center torsion differential that allows the different axles to move at different speeds, but can still be locked in 4HI or 4LO when you want to just like a traditional transfer case 4WD system.
When you can't take curves, corners, or switch backs without binding up the drivetrain and spinning/dragging a tire no other model of 4Runner can ever be as capable as a Limited for how I use it. The challenge of winter driving is maintaining traction, forcing a wheel to loose traction while trying to change direction is the opposite of what you want to happen. Full time 4WD with snow tires it's like driving a tank in the winter.
Another thing worth mentioning is the smart key on the Limited. I can't even begin to explain how awesomely convenient it is to throw the key in my pack while skiing, mountain biking, hiking, etc and being able to just walk up the back of the truck, press the down arrow on the hatch and the rear window rolls down so I can start tossing stuff in back without having to dig out keys. Plus I really like the JBL sound system, the auto dimming rear view mirrors, the exterior puddle lights, etc.
Auto 4WD is not the same as full time in the sense that you should never have it in auto 4WD unless your driving in conditions that you'd normally use 4WD. People that drive around in auto all the time tend to destroy transfer cases in 30K miles (on Ford specifically, I know this from a buddy that's a Ford tech). And no matter how you look at it, its always better to maintain traction rather then lose it and attempt to regain it.
I don't know how familiar you are with how a typical 4WD works but, it's RWD until you manually lock it in 4WD. When it's in 4WD the front and rear are locked together, they and mechanically forced to spin at the same speed, but that's not physically possible unless your driving straight. When your turning the path of the front wheels is longer than that of the rear wheels - an easy visual to picture in your head; a semi making a right hand corner at a stop light. They pull very very wide into the intersection almost crossing into oncoming traffic with the cab and yet the back wheels of the trailer barely making it around the corner without hopping up on the curb. The front traveled a lot further than the rear did. All vehicles do the same thing just on a more compact scale. With a vehicle locked in 4WD the drivetrain WILL bind up while trying to turn, the result is that something has to release the tension - either a front tire drags or a rear tire spins to make front axle speed match the rear axle speed, or the inner workings of the transfer case blow out the side of the housing and dump onto the road. The latter being the least likely but it does happen, especially over time with repeated binding. Try pulling into a parking space with a vehicle locked in 4WD, it'll get stuck from binding up so bad trying to turn right.
With full time 4WD the transfer case is always engaged sending power to the front and the rear but there is a center torsion differential that allows the different axles to move at different speeds, but can still be locked in 4HI or 4LO when you want to just like a traditional transfer case 4WD system.
When you can't take curves, corners, or switch backs without binding up the drivetrain and spinning/dragging a tire no other model of 4Runner can ever be as capable as a Limited for how I use it. The challenge of winter driving is maintaining traction, forcing a wheel to loose traction while trying to change direction is the opposite of what you want to happen. Full time 4WD with snow tires it's like driving a tank in the winter.
Another thing worth mentioning is the smart key on the Limited. I can't even begin to explain how awesomely convenient it is to throw the key in my pack while skiing, mountain biking, hiking, etc and being able to just walk up the back of the truck, press the down arrow on the hatch and the rear window rolls down so I can start tossing stuff in back without having to dig out keys. Plus I really like the JBL sound system, the auto dimming rear view mirrors, the exterior puddle lights, etc.
Auto 4WD is not the same as full time in the sense that you should never have it in auto 4WD unless your driving in conditions that you'd normally use 4WD. People that drive around in auto all the time tend to destroy transfer cases in 30K miles (on Ford specifically, I know this from a buddy that's a Ford tech). And no matter how you look at it, its always better to maintain traction rather then lose it and attempt to regain it.
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God damn it, I just typed up a long detailed response and the browser crashed when posting it. I'll try again laterJohnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:22 am I'm jealous of your truck but mostly of where you live.
I should just man up and get one of these things. Can I ask a couple of dumb questions?
How does it ride/handle with the stock suspension compared to your GTI over typical roads, and now with the upgraded suspension?
Gas mileage around what, 20 MPG highway?
Any complaints with the power or transmission?
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#failDbest wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:05 pmGod damn it, I just typed up a long detailed response and the browser crashed when posting it. I'll try again laterJohnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:22 am I'm jealous of your truck but mostly of where you live.
I should just man up and get one of these things. Can I ask a couple of dumb questions?
How does it ride/handle with the stock suspension compared to your GTI over typical roads, and now with the upgraded suspension?
Gas mileage around what, 20 MPG highway?
Any complaints with the power or transmission?
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I'd bind the F out of it navigating south philly. Counterpoint is that I probably wouldn't even need to engage 4WD anyway with how much this thing weighs.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:08 pmHence why doesn't need Full-time 4WD. No tight mountain switchbacks around here.
For you it makes sense, though.
One thing about full time AWD. It just flat out goes wherever you point it. No tugging around as one wheel hits a snow mound or an ice patch, it just tracks dead straight. My GTI could navigate snow mostly fine, certainly with some drama and wandering/tugging, but the STI is just an arrow.
I dunno. I likely don't need a full on transfer case, but the other axle helping out when needed would be nice. Even nicer if it just did that on it's own. I also absolutely despise wheel hop and would get an AWD version of a truck or car to circumvent that alone.
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Did not know that about Frauds. Good to know. And agreed on the AWD vs transfer case thing, especially for the driving you do it makes the most sense. In my case, I'd be driving over ice packed roads, snow mounds, back onto clear asphalt, and then random ice patches. AWD has been great over that stuff.Dbest wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:47 pm I bought a Limited because I live in Colorado and I spend a LOT of time driving up tight curvy mountain passes with switch backs in the winter during snow storms. If its dumping snow I'm driving through it to ski fresh powder, the more the merrier. All winter long the mountain paces are either buried in snow or the surface is super inconsistent - hard packed snow in the shade, completely dry in the sun, and constantly changing back and forth between them.
I don't know how familiar you are with how a typical 4WD works but, it's RWD until you manually lock it in 4WD. When it's in 4WD the front and rear are locked together, they and mechanically forced to spin at the same speed, but that's not physically possible unless your driving straight. When your turning the path of the front wheels is longer than that of the rear wheels - an easy visual to picture in your head; a semi making a right hand corner at a stop light. They pull very very wide into the intersection almost crossing into oncoming traffic with the cab and yet the back wheels of the trailer barely making it around the corner without hopping up on the curb. The front traveled a lot further than the rear did. All vehicles do the same thing just on a more compact scale. With a vehicle locked in 4WD the drivetrain WILL bind up while trying to turn, the result is that something has to release the tension - either a front tire drags or a rear tire spins to make front axle speed match the rear axle speed, or the inner workings of the transfer case blow out the side of the housing and dump onto the road. The latter being the least likely but it does happen, especially over time with repeated binding. Try pulling into a parking space with a vehicle locked in 4WD, it'll get stuck from binding up so bad trying to turn right.
With full time 4WD the transfer case is always engaged sending power to the front and the rear but there is a center torsion differential that allows the different axles to move at different speeds, but can still be locked in 4HI or 4LO when you want to just like a traditional transfer case 4WD system.
When you can't take curves, corners, or switch backs without binding up the drivetrain and spinning/dragging a tire no other model of 4Runner can ever be as capable as a Limited for how I use it. The challenge of winter driving is maintaining traction, forcing a wheel to loose traction while trying to change direction is the opposite of what you want to happen. Full time 4WD with snow tires it's like driving a tank in the winter.
Another thing worth mentioning is the smart key on the Limited. I can't even begin to explain how awesomely convenient it is to throw the key in my pack while skiing, mountain biking, hiking, etc and being able to just walk up the back of the truck, press the down arrow on the hatch and the rear window rolls down so I can start tossing stuff in back without having to dig out keys. Plus I really like the JBL sound system, the auto dimming rear view mirrors, the exterior puddle lights, etc.
Auto 4WD is not the same as full time in the sense that you should never have it in auto 4WD unless your driving in conditions that you'd normally use 4WD. People that drive around in auto all the time tend to destroy transfer cases in 30K miles (on Ford specifically, I know this from a buddy that's a Ford tech). And no matter how you look at it, its always better to maintain traction rather then lose it and attempt to regain it.
Re: smart key, totally agree. I had a Rav4 rental when I was in Seattle area. I just threw the key in my backpack, tapped the handle, and it was locked. End of hike just open the door. That was a surprisingly nice feature that I quite enjoyed. I don't care much for push button start systems but wireless no-key entry made sense to me.
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I think I will... 2019/2020 model year, to see the FMY bugs worked out... yet there seem to be none l'll order it in may, so that I get it by August before my lease is up.
That is unless we get $6 a gallon gas... at which point i'll get a civic sport.
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It's fantastic in the snow, only time I use it.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:08 pm Yeah, the Canyonado has the Auto4wd setting but I don't intend to use it.
Sometimes when it's snowing, most of the road will be clear but you'll hit patches that aren't. Like, drive to work on snowy roads, then hit the parking lot that's been cleared and salted and try making a tight turn. Auto saves you here.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:19 pm If you don't mind telling us how much was all the King stuff? Looks like SRS BZNS.
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Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:25 pmIt's fantastic in the snow, only time I use it.[user not found] wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:08 pm Yeah, the Canyonado has the Auto4wd setting but I don't intend to use it.
Sometimes when it's snowing, most of the road will be clear but you'll hit patches that aren't. Like, drive to work on snowy roads, then hit the parking lot that's been cleared and salted and try making a tight turn. Auto saves you here.
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The total for all of the suspension components came out to $3,218.74 (with in state sales tax on the Kings and bump stop spacers, shipping on the control arms, black friday discount on the springs, and beating Kings across the bard price increases by a month.)Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:19 pm If you don't mind telling us how much was all the King stuff? Looks like SRS BZNS.
To put it in perspective though with the XREAS system its not serviceable, you cant add fluid or set the level or anything. Once its taken apart you replace it. The list price for factory Toyota replacement stuff - 2 front shocks, 2 front upper shock mounts, 2 rear shocks, 2 accumulators, and 2 absorber control assemblies (not including any lines or hardware) it was $6,850 plus tax.
At the same time you can ditch the XREAS and do 4 Bilstein 5100 dampeners, that are height adjustable in the front to level it out, for about $400 and they have a lifetime warranty.
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Ok agreed ain't nobody replacing the XREAS. What do you feel the King gives you over the Bilstein 5100s?Dbest wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:27 pmThe total for all of the suspension components came out to $3,218.74 (with in state sales tax on the Kings and bump stop spacers, shipping on the control arms, black friday discount on the springs, and beating Kings across the bard price increases by a month.)Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:19 pm If you don't mind telling us how much was all the King stuff? Looks like SRS BZNS.
To put it in perspective though with the XREAS system its not serviceable, you cant add fluid or set the level or anything. Once its taken apart you replace it. The list price for factory Toyota replacement stuff - 2 front shocks, 2 front upper shock mounts, 2 rear shocks, 2 accumulators, and 2 absorber control assemblies (not including any lines or hardware) it was $6,850 plus tax.
At the same time you can ditch the XREAS and do 4 Bilstein 5100 dampeners, that are height adjustable in the front to level it out, for about $400 and they have a lifetime warranty.
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~7k for a toyota suspension on a fucking 4 runner?!Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:35 pmOk agreed ain't nobody replacing the XREAS. What do you feel the King gives you over the Bilstein 5100s?Dbest wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:27 pm
The total for all of the suspension components came out to $3,218.74 (with in state sales tax on the Kings and bump stop spacers, shipping on the control arms, black friday discount on the springs, and beating Kings across the bard price increases by a month.)
To put it in perspective though with the XREAS system its not serviceable, you cant add fluid or set the level or anything. Once its taken apart you replace it. The list price for factory Toyota replacement stuff - 2 front shocks, 2 front upper shock mounts, 2 rear shocks, 2 accumulators, and 2 absorber control assemblies (not including any lines or hardware) it was $6,850 plus tax.
At the same time you can ditch the XREAS and do 4 Bilstein 5100 dampeners, that are height adjustable in the front to level it out, for about $400 and they have a lifetime warranty.
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Ok lets try this again. The vehicles are so different adn the GTI has been gone long enough that I cant really make a honest comparison, not to mention I went P metric tires to E load LT tires (big heavy stiff durable 10 ply tires), and I've only put like 15 miles on it since getting it aligned. Going off of memory though I remember being very impressed with the road manners when I drove it. The XREAS is supper flat through corners, you felt just as much bumps stuff as I you did with the GTI but the T4R had a bit more bounce to it. The T4R with snows was much much more planted and stable through high speed bends on the winding highway roads in the mountains than the GTI ever was on its snow tires. Overall I'd say it had LESS body roll than the GTI but obviously didn't have the level of grip, especially over mid corner bumps. It didn't like to shift the weight back and forth but if you were smooth with steering inputs its was honest very impressive for the something that size. I was so impressed with the on road mannerisms. The Kings have a pretty similar feel to the XREAS in terms of harshness or whatever you want to call it, you feel every little bump and crack in the ground, you know they're there, but if its anything significant its immediately soaked up with no drama. You still get a little bit of rear end wiggle during mid corner bumps but that's never going to go away, with a solid axle anything that effects one rear wheel has to effect the other side as well.Johnny_P wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:22 am I'm jealous of your truck but mostly of where you live.
I should just man up and get one of these things. Can I ask a couple of dumb questions?
How does it ride/handle with the stock suspension compared to your GTI over typical roads, and now with the upgraded suspension?
Gas mileage around what, 20 MPG highway?
Any complaints with the power or transmission?
I average about 18 mpg but keep in mind I don't drive flat level roads day in and day out and our highways not in the mountains are 75mph speed limits so I'm usually cruising at 85.
It's under powered at altitude and when your going up steep hills at altitude the trans hunts for gears a lot. It's not deal in that sense, but at the same time even a brand new 2018 T4R is still mechanically identical to the 2010 model years that started showing up in 2009. It's old, outdated, and inefficient but it's simple and its dead reliable. With basic inexpensive maintenance it will run for ever, and take that over direct injection power and efficiency and an 8 speed auto any day. I love this thing so much because its so basic and functional where it matters. When they go to the next generation and update it with the engine adn trans combo from the new Tacos that people hate I just might buy another brand new old body Limited while they are still available.
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I don't even know where to start. It's a night adn day difference in every way. The Bilsteins are great for a low cost OEM replacement when you want to lift it for looks. The spring perch on the front has notches for a snap ring to change the ride height in front to level a vehicle. It's a generic digressively valved, 1.8" diameter, non rebuildable, monotube unit that are adapted to fit as many applications as possible, it's heavy steel that doesn't shed heat, small oil capacity, the lower mounting point is known to bend when you really abuse them, realistically it's barely an upgrade but its perfect for a mall crawler. The offer a lifetime warranty because they are so cheap to make and lots of people are deterred by the labor cost to replace them. You pay labor to install them and you toss your stock stuff. You blow out the new stuff but now you need to find/ buy parts to install while they get set out for warranty. So you pay labor to swap them out and mail them out. The new ones come in and you pay labor to swap them out again, ect. When people say lift it the right way instead of doing a spacer lift, the 5100s with some rear springs are the lowest option that still count as lifting it the right way.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:35 pm Ok agreed ain't nobody replacing the XREAS. What do you feel the King gives you over the Bilstein 5100s?
On the total opposite of the spectrum is King. Built specific to your vehicle and setup with the highest level of performance and quality you can buy. It's like wanting a performance car and comparing a Pontiac Feiro to a 911 GT3.
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Some winter fun
You can never trust when winter will actually end when ski season typically runs into June.
Snow days = powder days
The T4R was plowing snow, this is why I have the oh shit kit and snow tires.
You can never trust when winter will actually end when ski season typically runs into June.
Snow days = powder days
The T4R was plowing snow, this is why I have the oh shit kit and snow tires.
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