Turbro Miata. To ruin or not to ruin?

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Barnes93cb wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:14 pm
Big Brain Bradley wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:59 pm

oil pressure and engine speed are connected. most cars have 'idiot' gauges and lights that dont move or only come on or flash if there is a problem.

A common mod on a miata is to install a real oil pressure sender.

take home message: fix your (low) idle problem and the oil pressure is likely fine.
Yes I do need a real sensor.

I also have no idea where to begin with the low idle problem. I am not experienced with wrenching on a car. And everyone I am talking to says its probably my oil pump.

My only other option is taking the car into a shop and having them go at it.
:notsure: Hopefully it's just something simple causing the idle problem...
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Low idle won't be tied to the oil pump. I'd check for vacuum leaks first. May have something to do with the Turbro. Did you change the ecu yet? Could also be tuning maybe.

So many things can contribute to a low idle issue. Oil pump is major surgery. Rule #1 of working on a car is start with all the simple/cheap fixed and move up in difficulty from there.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Barnes93cb wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:14 pm
Big Brain Bradley wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:59 pm

oil pressure and engine speed are connected. most cars have 'idiot' gauges and lights that dont move or only come on or flash if there is a problem.

A common mod on a miata is to install a real oil pressure sender.

take home message: fix your (low) idle problem and the oil pressure is likely fine.
Yes I do need a real sensor.

I also have no idea where to begin with the low idle problem. I am not experienced with wrenching on a car. And everyone I am talking to says its probably my oil pump.

My only other option is taking the car into a shop and having them go at it.
a shop is going to bring the rape on a modified car.

Look at what detroit said. Its prob a vacuum leak.
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Came here to post what the last two have said.

If you're curious about what might be going on with the bottom end, cut open the oil filter and inspect the pleats for excessive metal shavings. Dear god don't pull an engine for a stuck IAC valve.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:04 am Low idle won't be tied to the oil pump. I'd check for vacuum leaks first. May have something to do with the Turbro. Did you change the ecu yet? Could also be tuning maybe.

So many things can contribute to a low idle issue. Oil pump is major surgery. Rule #1 of working on a car is start with all the simple/cheap fixed and move up in difficulty from there.
Still the original ECU. Its immediately attempting to die so idling the car is an issue. Ill have to just start checking connections and hoses.

The turbro could very well be the major culprit. A lot of additional hoses and connections.
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Big Brain Bradley wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:08 am
Barnes93cb wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:14 pm

Yes I do need a real sensor.

I also have no idea where to begin with the low idle problem. I am not experienced with wrenching on a car. And everyone I am talking to says its probably my oil pump.

My only other option is taking the car into a shop and having them go at it.
a shop is going to bring the rape on a modified car.

Look at what detroit said. Its prob a vacuum leak.
Yes thankfully I have some friends who work at garages who can help.
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Barnes93cb wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:45 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:04 am Low idle won't be tied to the oil pump. I'd check for vacuum leaks first. May have something to do with the Turbro. Did you change the ecu yet? Could also be tuning maybe.

So many things can contribute to a low idle issue. Oil pump is major surgery. Rule #1 of working on a car is start with all the simple/cheap fixed and move up in difficulty from there.
Still the original ECU. Its immediately attempting to die so idling the car is an issue. Ill have to just start checking connections and hoses.

The turbro could very well be the major culprit. A lot of additional hoses and connections.
Yep, sounds like a massive vac leak, or if the car has an idle air control valve, that can be the culprit.

If the car has a MAF or the like, I've had those screw up idle before too.

Can you get the thing to idle at all?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:17 am
Barnes93cb wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:45 am

Still the original ECU. Its immediately attempting to die so idling the car is an issue. Ill have to just start checking connections and hoses.

The turbro could very well be the major culprit. A lot of additional hoses and connections.
Yep, sounds like a massive vac leak, or if the car has an idle air control valve, that can be the culprit.

If the car has a MAF or the like, I've had those screw up idle before too.

Can you get the thing to idle at all?
If I keep on the throttle it will. But otherwise the car is immediately trying to die or revs will jump everywhere.

Ive actually heard the IACV is another issue. Keep the ideas coming.
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Barnes93cb wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:22 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:17 am Yep, sounds like a massive vac leak, or if the car has an idle air control valve, that can be the culprit.

If the car has a MAF or the like, I've had those screw up idle before too.

Can you get the thing to idle at all?
If I keep on the throttle it will. But otherwise the car is immediately trying to die or revs will jump everywhere.

Ive actually heard the IACV is another issue. Keep the ideas coming.
This is classic vacumm leak / IACV shit
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Big Brain Bradley wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:26 am
Barnes93cb wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:22 am

If I keep on the throttle it will. But otherwise the car is immediately trying to die or revs will jump everywhere.

Ive actually heard the IACV is another issue. Keep the ideas coming.
This is classic vacumm leak / IACV shit
Sure sounds like it to me. Are IACV's cheap for these? Might be worth picking one up to try out.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:29 am
Big Brain Bradley wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:26 am

This is classic vacumm leak / IACV shit
Sure sounds like it to me. Are IACV's cheap for these? Might be worth picking one up to try out.
$250 from autozone is the cheapest I can get.

Im going to hit a few junk yards up for some used ones to try out first. If this ends up being the issue. I will keep a few on hand. Im also going to check for other possible leaks. This could save me quite a bit of time and hassle.
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Barnes93cb wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:44 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:29 am
Sure sounds like it to me. Are IACV's cheap for these? Might be worth picking one up to try out.
$250 from autozone is the cheapest I can get.

Im going to hit a few junk yards up for some used ones to try out first. If this ends up being the issue. I will keep a few on hand. Im also going to check for other possible leaks. This could save me quite a bit of time and hassle.
Gah, same as I remember it being on other cars. That's some :waxer: shit. The issue with replacing with a used one is you don't necessarily know if that one is good either. But I guess it's worth a try if you can find one (or a few) for cheap.

Check for vac leaks first. That's free. It's easier if you can get the car to idle, but you can still do a visual on all hoses and connections first without it running. If anything looks dry or rotted...it could be a culprit.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:46 am
Barnes93cb wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:44 am

$250 from autozone is the cheapest I can get.

Im going to hit a few junk yards up for some used ones to try out first. If this ends up being the issue. I will keep a few on hand. Im also going to check for other possible leaks. This could save me quite a bit of time and hassle.
Gah, same as I remember it being on other cars. That's some :waxer: shit. The issue with replacing with a used one is you don't necessarily know if that one is good either. But I guess it's worth a try if you can find one (or a few) for cheap.

Check for vac leaks first. That's free. It's easier if you can get the car to idle, but you can still do a visual on all hoses and connections first without it running. If anything looks dry or rotted...it could be a culprit.
:dat:

with a modded car and metered air going a million places....I'd virtually guarantee it's an air leak.

Unplug the MAF to see if the helps.... i bet it does. Then you know, air leak.
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Big Brain Bradley wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:49 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:46 am
Gah, same as I remember it being on other cars. That's some :waxer: shit. The issue with replacing with a used one is you don't necessarily know if that one is good either. But I guess it's worth a try if you can find one (or a few) for cheap.

Check for vac leaks first. That's free. It's easier if you can get the car to idle, but you can still do a visual on all hoses and connections first without it running. If anything looks dry or rotted...it could be a culprit.
:dat:

with a modded car and metered air going a million places....I'd virtually guarantee it's an air leak.

Unplug the MAF to see if the helps.... i bet it does. Then you know, air leak.
Will it even run with the MAF unplugged? Many cars won't.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:57 am
Big Brain Bradley wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:49 am

:dat:

with a modded car and metered air going a million places....I'd virtually guarantee it's an air leak.

Unplug the MAF to see if the helps.... i bet it does. Then you know, air leak.
Will it even run with the MAF unplugged? Many cars won't.
pretty sure it will, it defaults into a basic settings open loop mode and throws a CEL.
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Big Brain Bradley wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:08 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:57 am
Will it even run with the MAF unplugged? Many cars won't.
pretty sure it will, it defaults into a basic settings open loop mode and throws a CEL.
:notbad: Worth trying.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:46 am
Barnes93cb wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:44 am

$250 from autozone is the cheapest I can get.

Im going to hit a few junk yards up for some used ones to try out first. If this ends up being the issue. I will keep a few on hand. Im also going to check for other possible leaks. This could save me quite a bit of time and hassle.
Gah, same as I remember it being on other cars. That's some :waxer: shit. The issue with replacing with a used one is you don't necessarily know if that one is good either. But I guess it's worth a try if you can find one (or a few) for cheap.

Check for vac leaks first. That's free. It's easier if you can get the car to idle, but you can still do a visual on all hoses and connections first without it running. If anything looks dry or rotted...it could be a culprit.
The thought to get a used one is that I can get it today vs waiting a few days otherwise and spending quite a bit more.

Most of the hoses are fiarly new. But there are so many with this aftermarket turbo kit. I need to really get into the engine bay and clean things up.
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Pulled the maf and Iacv. Both were cleaned and reinstalled. I checked hoses and didn't notice any tears or loose connections.

But here is the big issue. I drained the oil and strained it. No debris. However only 1qt drained. So I managed to leak out 3qts on the drive to and from Atlanta. That was a lot of 70+ mph driving and an autocross.

I refilled the car and started it up. Everything sounds fine and it idled great. But I'm blocked in the garage and there is a bit of a storm.

I have a feeling there is probably some damage in the engine.


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Not quite sure how low oil would cause an idle issue, but I suppose there's a chance? Lesson learned: old and modded cars, check the oil constantly. Especially with that turbo setup, there's a good chance oil consumption is real.

You may or may not have nuked the engine. If running it low on oil caused something, you'd likely know.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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When I had my older 626 POS car back in the day.... it would burn about 1quart every 1k miles. Once it was 1.5 quarts low it would start packing ticking sounds, that's how I knew I would need to be "topped off"

:aintcare: worst car I ever owned btw.
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I supposed that potentially the electronics could be set up in such a way to not run unless oil pressure is seen.

Cut open the filter and see what it looks like. If there's damage it'll be loaded with metal. If not, top it off and run it. (Also try to figure out where the oil is going). My guess is past the rings on a boosted car.
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4zilch wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:46 pm I supposed that potentially the electronics could be set up in such a way to not run unless oil pressure is seen.

Cut open the filter and see what it looks like. If there's damage it'll be loaded with metal. If not, top it off and run it. (Also try to figure out where the oil is going). My guess is past the rings on a boosted car.
:dat:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Barnes93cb wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:55 pm Pulled the maf and Iacv. Both were cleaned and reinstalled. I checked hoses and didn't notice any tears or loose connections.

But here is the big issue. I drained the oil and strained it. No debris. However only 1qt drained. So I managed to leak out 3qts on the drive to and from Atlanta. That was a lot of 70+ mph driving and an autocross.

I refilled the car and started it up. Everything sounds fine and it idled great. But I'm blocked in the garage and there is a bit of a storm.

I have a feeling there is probably some damage in the engine.


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eh, refill, change filter, and if it don't smoke then :aintcare:

BP engines are tough as nails, miata's have a reputation for reliability for a reason.
4zilch wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:46 pm I supposed that potentially the electronics could be set up in such a way to not run unless oil pressure is seen.

Cut open the filter and see what it looks like. If there's damage it'll be loaded with metal. If not, top it off and run it. (Also try to figure out where the oil is going). My guess is past the rings on a boosted car.
that and/or past the turbo seals if its a chinacharger.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:05 pm Not quite sure how low oil would cause an idle issue, but I suppose there's a chance? Lesson learned: old and modded cars, check the oil constantly. Especially with that turbo setup, there's a good chance oil consumption is real.

You may or may not have nuked the engine. If running it low on oil caused something, you'd likely know.
I believe the idle issue was linked to the MAF or IACV. Cleaning them seems to have helped. I think the oil possibly made things worse. Im going to monitor more. I am going to look into getting a spare motor and building it anyway.

Once I get the time for my clutch swap I will also do the rear main that I believe is leaking. Headgasket and valvecover gasket are fine. Im also going to replace the dipsick o ring and the cam angle sensor gasket.
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Oil and filter were clear. Oil changed and going to run for a little bit like this.

I havent noticed any excessive smoke or smells. The turbo is a little older but its a quality Garret gt2560 from the flyin miata turbo kit. I couldnt comment on the miles it has.
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