Waxer's Haus of Wax

[D Griff]

I mean... I'd take a Gayman GT4. But like... if you're a cheapass, the Corvette always wins. At the poverty level, a $15k C5 dusts a $15k Boxster all day in any metric. On the high end... a C7Z06 makes any $100k Porsche look like a goddamn joke. Past that point... well. Whatever. GT3 is badass but can't you get a Ferd GT for that money?

Just hold out for the mid engine Richvette. You'll be happier anyway.

My only concern is, how much is Chevy going to ask for the ME C8? The ZR1 is already almost $150K.

The Ford GT is $450K.

For that shit I'd pull out all the stops and rather have an Italian supercar, but reality is I don't have any reason to waste that much money on a car when there is so much better places to use that money.

The rumors indicate it'll be in that GT3 arena as far as I've heard. And if history is any indicator, it'll blow the doors off the 911 in every metric other than maybe looks (subjective). Plus, the engine will be in the right place.

[D Griff]

Rear engine is kind of retarded.

[D Griff]

Also... I passed a C7Z06Z07 on the track on Friday .

[D Griff]

Also, I still want a Cayman, my Porsche hate here is just due to .

[CorvetteWaxer]

My only concern is, how much is Chevy going to ask for the ME C8? The ZR1 is already almost $150K.

The Ford GT is $450K.

For that shit I'd pull out all the stops and rather have an Italian supercar, but reality is I don't have any reason to waste that much money on a car when there is so much better places to use that money.

The rumors indicate it'll be in that GT3 arena as far as I've heard. And if history is any indicator, it'll blow the doors off the 911 in every metric other than maybe looks (subjective). Plus, the engine will be in the right place.

I admit that I like the pics and vids that have leaked so far... but this shouldn't be a shocker to anyone that has ever read anything I've posted.

[D Griff]

The rumors indicate it'll be in that GT3 arena as far as I've heard. And if history is any indicator, it'll blow the doors off the 911 in every metric other than maybe looks (subjective). Plus, the engine will be in the right place.

I admit that I like the pics and vids that have leaked so far... but this shouldn't be a shocker to anyone that has ever read anything I've posted.

Dude, I think it will be incredible. I mean, GM doesn't fuck around with the Corvette. Every one for the past 30 years has been pretty damn sweet for it's time regardless of price, and when you factor in the value, pretty . To top it all off, GM in general actually makes really good stuff now, they were a pretty brand for a while, but their new stuff seems excellent and they have some of the best chassis/handling engineers AND motors.

[max225]

I think you really have to be a hardcore fanboi to go for a higher end Porsche. And don't forget to factor in the level of douchedom you need to achieve to pull off ownership. All the Porsche hats, polos, jackets, flags, etc you need to sport ALL THE TIME. That alone is a high cost of entry.

After sleeping on it I think I've talked myself out of ever buying a 911 again. I was in this camp before, but I think that this is final now.

There's no way I want a basic 911. There just isn't enough perf/$ factor there. $140K for a car that can't perform better than a $59K C7 Grand Sport? No thank you. In order to get me into a 911 it would need to be a Turbo S or something like the GT3, the others just don't make sense to me coming from the Z06/Z07.

I have never paid MSRP+ on a car. Not when I ordered the 2014 Z51 and others were asking markups of $5-$10k, or any other car. I can't see breaking this principle for a car as there is already profit built into the price, not even $1k over makes sense to me, so why would I start now on a car that has an artificial markup of $30K, or up to $60K ? If I paid $60K over for a 911 it better come with an $80K Gayman S for my wife.

So now it looks like I'll just wait on the ME C8. At least there I know I can get one at MSRP at the worst case, if I want to be an early adopter and get another first year car.

The paying over msrp part doesn’t matter as long as the value is there. Which is debatable, Ford gt msrp was 150k it sold for 160-190, today it is 250k plus. Msrp is just a number drawn up in the sky for these vehicles. The market determines the cost.
Also comparing a corvette to a Porsche is like comparing a mustang to an Aston Martin. Yes the mustang is faster in every measurable way but there is obviously more to it than the performance.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I love Porsches. Always have, always will. But to me, the brand is reaching too high in many cases, and fanbois are buying into it.

A base Cayman with a or a 911 T would be really neat. That's what the brand is about. $150k+ GT3's with $60k or whatever "market adjustments" are absurd. At that price, just buy a Ferrari or Lambo or something.

[CorvetteWaxer]

I love Porsches. Always have, always will. But to me, the brand is reaching too high in many cases, and fanbois are buying into it.

A base Cayman with a or a 911 T would be really neat. That's what the brand is about. $150k+ GT3's with $60k or whatever "market adjustments" are absurd. At that price, just buy a Ferrari or Lambo or something.

Agreed.

My problem with the Cayman is that it isn't a 911 and I feel like if you're getting a Porsche, you should get a 911. I know that no matter how much fun a Cayman would be, I would always regret not having a 911 when I came across one on the street.

The issues I have with the 911T is that it is really underpowered and more than a couple reviews have said "If you can't afford a GT3, the T is okay, but you'll be missing the power of the GT3 when you drive it."

Chevy has spoiled me with the LS/LT motors and C6/C7 packages.

[max225]

Isn’t the turbo always the fastest Porsche ? The gt3 has historically always been slower, however it was better handling

[dubshow]

Been looking for GT3s again today and kinda at the prices. New ones with <50 miles have a $50k+ market adjustment. "New" ones with 3k miles have a $30k markup.

I think they are telling me to forget about a 911 and leave them to the guys with less brains than me.

you got to go pre order a new one to "get a good deal" in this screwed up phase of rarer P cars spiking in value.

[dubshow]

Isn’t the turbo always the fastest Porsche ? The gt3 has historically always been slower, however it was better handling

historically its the more "raw" car. It comes track prepped, historically too.

[Apex]

Isn’t the turbo always the fastest Porsche ? The gt3 has historically always been slower, however it was better handling

GT2 for the

[Gberg2119]

Almost on cue as waxer is looking at GT3's this story pops up.

TL:DR from the vortex thread from the Rennlist thread:

Shiraaz Sookralli was VP of Marketing at Champion Porsche and handled all GT car sales and allocations.

He set up his own shill company called Champion Autosports and took deposits for Porsche GT car allocations through it. From all indications at this time, it seems Shiraaz Sookralli acted alone. He is now missing.

It looks as if Champion IS NOT honoring their deposits right now, but directing victims to their attorney.

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread. ... on-Porsche

[max225]

"Shiraaz Sookralli "

That's your issue right there.

[wap]

I admit that I like the pics and vids that have leaked so far... but this shouldn't be a shocker to anyone that has ever read anything I've posted.

Dude, I think it will be incredible. I mean, GM doesn't fuck around with the Corvette. Every one for the past 30 years has been pretty damn sweet for it's time regardless of price, and when you factor in the value, pretty . To top it all off, GM in general actually makes really good stuff now, they were a pretty brand for a while, but their new stuff seems excellent and they have some of the best chassis/handling engineers AND motors.

I'd bet the Zora or whatever they call the ME C8 will be pretty amazing. It has to be and, as you said, GM is up to the task these days. It's

[wap]

After sleeping on it I think I've talked myself out of ever buying a 911 again. I was in this camp before, but I think that this is final now.

There's no way I want a basic 911. There just isn't enough perf/$ factor there. $140K for a car that can't perform better than a $59K C7 Grand Sport? No thank you. In order to get me into a 911 it would need to be a Turbo S or something like the GT3, the others just don't make sense to me coming from the Z06/Z07.

I have never paid MSRP+ on a car. Not when I ordered the 2014 Z51 and others were asking markups of $5-$10k, or any other car. I can't see breaking this principle for a car as there is already profit built into the price, not even $1k over makes sense to me, so why would I start now on a car that has an artificial markup of $30K, or up to $60K ? If I paid $60K over for a 911 it better come with an $80K Gayman S for my wife.

So now it looks like I'll just wait on the ME C8. At least there I know I can get one at MSRP at the worst case, if I want to be an early adopter and get another first year car.

The paying over msrp part doesn’t matter as long as the value is there. Which is debatable, Ford gt msrp was 150k it sold for 160-190, today it is 250k plus. Msrp is just a number drawn up in the sky for these vehicles. The market determines the cost.
Also comparing a corvette to a Porsche is like comparing a mustang to an Aston Martin. Yes the mustang is faster in every measurable way but there is obviously more to it than the performance.

Historically true. But the gap is closing doe. Referring to the recent Vettes.

[max225]

The paying over msrp part doesn’t matter as long as the value is there. Which is debatable, Ford gt msrp was 150k it sold for 160-190, today it is 250k plus. Msrp is just a number drawn up in the sky for these vehicles. The market determines the cost.
Also comparing a corvette to a Porsche is like comparing a mustang to an Aston Martin. Yes the mustang is faster in every measurable way but there is obviously more to it than the performance.

Historically true. But the gap is closing doe. Referring to the recent Vettes.

I disagree. Corvette was always better performing, Porsche was always better all around/quality/etc. Has been like this since like 1965

[wap]

Historically true. But the gap is closing doe. Referring to the recent Vettes.

I disagree. Corvette was always better performing, Porsche was always better all around/quality/etc. Has been like this since like 1965

So you think the quality gap is widening between the two, with the strides the C7 has made and, I'm betting, the C8 will make?

[max225]

I disagree. Corvette was always better performing, Porsche was always better all around/quality/etc. Has been like this since like 1965

So you think the quality gap is widening between the two, with the strides the C7 has made and, I'm betting, the C8 will make?

Remaining the same I'd say. Early Porsches were pretty garbage as well. a bunch of aircooled fainboiiis.
It is hard to quantify the difference, but overall the quality of paint/assembly/interiors has been always superior in the Kraut versions. Now I am not speaking to performance etc, as IMO Corvettes have been, are and will be always superior that's their play.

The quality of my C5 was abysmal. The C6 is mediocre at best, when you compare their respective competitions, 996/997, they are certainly superior from that aspect. C7 vs 991, 991 actually introduced when the C6 was still being produced, I'd take a 991 if price was equal, but you do pay a YUGE premium for it.

[wap]

So you think the quality gap is widening between the two, with the strides the C7 has made and, I'm betting, the C8 will make?

Remaining the same I'd say. Early Porsches were pretty garbage as well. a bunch of aircooled fainboiiis.
It is hard to quantify the difference, but overall the quality of paint/assembly/interiors has been always superior in the Kraut versions. Now I am not speaking to performance etc, as IMO Corvettes have been, are and will be always superior that's their play.

The quality of my C5 was abysmal. The C6 is mediocre at best, when you compare their respective competitions, 996/997, they are certainly superior from that aspect. C7 vs 991, 991 actually introduced when the C6 was still being produced, I'd take a 991 if price was equal, but you do pay a YUGE premium for it.

Disagree that early 911's were "garbage" when discussing quality, ie build quality. They were always well built and solid, just like Beetles (not joking). Solid little fuckers. Nothing rattled, etc. Vettes weren't always like that. You know that as well as anyone. I guess what I meant by my original post was that they're becoming as refined as P cars, getting better with every new gen.

[max225]

Remaining the same I'd say. Early Porsches were pretty garbage as well. a bunch of aircooled fainboiiis.
It is hard to quantify the difference, but overall the quality of paint/assembly/interiors has been always superior in the Kraut versions. Now I am not speaking to performance etc, as IMO Corvettes have been, are and will be always superior that's their play.

The quality of my C5 was abysmal. The C6 is mediocre at best, when you compare their respective competitions, 996/997, they are certainly superior from that aspect. C7 vs 991, 991 actually introduced when the C6 was still being produced, I'd take a 991 if price was equal, but you do pay a YUGE premium for it.

Disagree that early 911's were "garbage" when discussing quality, ie build quality. They were always well built and solid, just like Beetles (not joking). Solid little fuckers. Nothing rattled, etc. Vettes weren't always like that. You know that as well as anyone. I guess what I meant by my original post was that they're becoming as refined as P cars, getting better with every new gen.

All things equal sure if porsche have stood still at 997.2 levels, the gap would be closer, but they have not, P cars have improved dramatically. They were designed to a strict budget prior hence all those stupid engine issues etc. They half assed their power trains all the way to the mid 997 gen after which they improved finally.

[Acid666]

My boss has a mid 2000's 911. When I got my Z06 he asked which was faster and better? I was like, mine's half the cost as yours but does nearly everything the same, pulls about the same lap times on tracks, might be a hair faster in the quarter but it's a wash. But it does it with more brute force and yours is more of a finesse car. Both great, but accomplish their end result by different means.
A local guy that used to have a first gen Viper recent swapped over to a 911 and said it's so much better to live with especially on trips like places to the Dragon. He did struggle to make things click in autocross tho because he had to learn to finesse the car a little more and make it work for him and not against.

[Johnny_P]

I love Porsches. Always have, always will. But to me, the brand is reaching too high in many cases, and fanbois are buying into it.

A base Cayman with a or a 911 T would be really neat. That's what the brand is about. $150k+ GT3's with $60k or whatever "market adjustments" are absurd. At that price, just buy a Ferrari or Lambo or something.

Base Cayman PDK for me, especially with the turbo engines now. Hell of a little car.

I like the 991s too. Anything outside that gets ADM tacked on which is full retard.

I'd love to own a 911 someday.

[4zilch]

Waxer, come back. We miss you.

I miss the occasional banter about early/mid 90's superbikes.