Johnny_P's Street Parking Palooza

[Johnny_P]

If you’re not getting cost of living raises you are losing money. COL increase is more than the 3% trump thinks it is.
In my case I went from managing a department of 5 to a department of 14 with no pay increase for 4 years. And when I expressed I was unhappy with the job, despite my department doing extremely well, I was demoted and subsequently laid off.

You were laid off? What happened to them giving you all that time off to recharge?

I took 4 weeks of vacation to recharge because they weren't going to let me do a leave of absence for any time at all.
When they announced closure of the refinery and company, I was in the first group of layoffs with "everyone else getting laid off within 2 weeks." I get it, you don't need a capital project engineer if you're shutting the place down. 5 days after that 2 class action lawsuits are filed against them for inadequate notice and violation of federal law regarding mass layoffs which says you need 60 days heads up to your workforce. So people still employed got a 60 day notice and they are on site for 2 months. People already laid off? Who knows or gives a fuck amirite?

[Johnny_P]

Refinery went

I know that but I didn't know they were laying people off afterwards.

My company was the definition of "shitty employer"

[Gberg2119]

You were laid off? What happened to them giving you all that time off to recharge?

I took 4 weeks of vacation to recharge because they weren't going to let me do a leave of absence for any time at all.
When they announced closure of the refinery and company, I was in the first group of layoffs with "everyone else getting laid off within 2 weeks." I get it, you don't need a capital project engineer if you're shutting the place down. 5 days after that 2 class action lawsuits are filed against them for inadequate notice and violation of federal law regarding mass layoffs which says you need 60 days heads up to your workforce. So people still employed got a 60 day notice and they are on site for 2 months. People already laid off? Who knows or gives a fuck amirite?

I'm sure the PES executives will all get their nice golden parachutes.

[D Griff]

That’s awesome. You’ve also obviously done a great job and taken on more responsibility so you deserve more pay. A lot of the discussion here indicates many feel like they deserve more pay every year for keeping their ass in the same seat. Why? If you’re doing the same shit, there’s no reason to give more than small inflation bumps.

The problem (for me) was that my "job" wasn't changing, but my responsibilities were increasing with no to minimal change in pay. Eventually, I was doing a job that was previously done by 3 people, one of which being a higher level than me. What put me over the edge was when they laid off a guy that sucked, and then put another guy that sucked just as much in that job and expected me to pick up the slack for him with again no pay or job benefits.



If you're literally doing the same job year after year, there's really no justification to be mad about no raises...other than COL.

I’m with you there. That case or JP’s where he had to manage 3X the amount of people, yeah you should get increased compensation.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The problem (for me) was that my "job" wasn't changing, but my responsibilities were increasing with no to minimal change in pay. Eventually, I was doing a job that was previously done by 3 people, one of which being a higher level than me. What put me over the edge was when they laid off a guy that sucked, and then put another guy that sucked just as much in that job and expected me to pick up the slack for him with again no pay or job benefits.



If you're literally doing the same job year after year, there's really no justification to be mad about no raises...other than COL.

I’m with you there. That case or JP’s where he had to manage 3X the amount of people, yeah you should get increased compensation.

Instead, I was told "I was lucky to have a job" because of all the layoffs going on.

"Lucky" huh? Sure felt good to resign and be walked out to a competitor paying significantly more.

[MrH42]

Interesting hearing this from the product planning side. I worked for two different tier I suppliers, one of which had GM as it’s main customer.

When I worked in interiors, right before design freeze on the Volt, I got a call to come up to GM. I show up, and they got their lead designer and some cost guys. They told me they were over budget and had to make cuts. The poor look on the designers face...he basically tried to simplify the design, I had to give real time rough cost savings for each change. They whittled him down to that god awful painted dashboard that’s in the volt now


FCA was wild though. Validation testing? What’s that?!? They had a lot of cool car guys there though.

nice to have someone else in the industry!

Cost cutting was the worst at GM. We'd make this badass product in design, plan, etc...then find out it's over budget and start cutting away at stuff. Product planners spend more time cutting costs than making products good. The results show.

FCA is the opposite. The plans and designs are based around a cost structure, so it doesn't start as too crazy and then cut back. Things get refined, sure...but it's not this crazy cutting frenzy from program approval to production like GM.

I do really like our Volt, tho...even the interior is quite nice despite cutting. I wish the Colorado had a nicer interior. That's pure cost cutting "truck buyers don't want nice interiors" etc.

Was in the industry. I've moved on to the pharmaceutical world. I miss auto though. It was a really fun environment to work in. Working all day with car dudes making lame fast and furious references was a good time.

[CorvetteWaxer]

I've done well in the same job and company for the last ~14 years.

I think I'm the only one here though.

That’s awesome. You’ve also obviously done a great job and taken on more responsibility so you deserve more pay. A lot of the discussion here indicates many feel like they deserve more pay every year for keeping their ass in the same seat. Why? If you’re doing the same shit, there’s no reason to give more than small inflation bumps.

Oh, well if that's the thought then yeah.... they're being unrealistic.

I've got a couple employees that think this way and wonder why they are rated low and actually get very small increases.

If you just do the minimum, that's what you're going to get at review time.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

nice to have someone else in the industry!

Cost cutting was the worst at GM. We'd make this badass product in design, plan, etc...then find out it's over budget and start cutting away at stuff. Product planners spend more time cutting costs than making products good. The results show.

FCA is the opposite. The plans and designs are based around a cost structure, so it doesn't start as too crazy and then cut back. Things get refined, sure...but it's not this crazy cutting frenzy from program approval to production like GM.

I do really like our Volt, tho...even the interior is quite nice despite cutting. I wish the Colorado had a nicer interior. That's pure cost cutting "truck buyers don't want nice interiors" etc.

Was in the industry. I've moved on to the pharmaceutical world. I miss auto though. It was a really fun environment to work in. Working all day with car dudes making lame fast and furious references was a good time.

It can be awesome or torturous. I worked in groups at GM where nobody even remotely cared about cars. That was super frustrating.

But when you can work with other car bros, it's a blast. I still don't see myself in the industry long...once podmobiles are a reality in 10-20 years, I don't have any interest in working on that shit.

[Apex]

Was in the industry. I've moved on to the pharmaceutical world. I miss auto though. It was a really fun environment to work in. Working all day with car dudes making lame fast and furious references was a good time.

It can be awesome or torturous. I worked in groups at GM where nobody even remotely cared about cars. That was super frustrating.

But when you can work with other car bros, it's a blast. I still don't see myself in the industry long...once podmobiles are a reality in 10-20 years, I don't have any interest in working on that shit.

You'll be slinging paint at the local Sherwin-Williams with a paid of in 10-20 years.

[max225]

Was in the industry. I've moved on to the pharmaceutical world. I miss auto though. It was a really fun environment to work in. Working all day with car dudes making lame fast and furious references was a good time.

It can be awesome or torturous. I worked in groups at GM where nobody even remotely cared about cars. That was super frustrating.

But when you can work with other car bros, it's a blast. I still don't see myself in the industry long...once podmobiles are a reality in 10-20 years, I don't have any interest in working on that shit.

At that point you can go to aev or something and sell mini fridges to overmallers for 2k if there is still a country left. Plenty of adjacent industries that are still run by “enthusiasts”

[D Griff]

Was in the industry. I've moved on to the pharmaceutical world. I miss auto though. It was a really fun environment to work in. Working all day with car dudes making lame fast and furious references was a good time.

It can be awesome or torturous. I worked in groups at GM where nobody even remotely cared about cars. That was super frustrating.

But when you can work with other car bros, it's a blast. I still don't see myself in the industry long...once podmobiles are a reality in 10-20 years, I don't have any interest in working on that shit.

Perhaps you can become senior enough to lead up a team focused on enthusiast cars or something. Once full pod hits (I think this is far more than 20 years out), there will still be the freaks who want cars for fun, and I imagine brands like FCA will still oblige if it can be profitable. It'll just be a low volume thing more like motorcycles.

[CorvetteWaxer]

That’s awesome. You’ve also obviously done a great job and taken on more responsibility so you deserve more pay. A lot of the discussion here indicates many feel like they deserve more pay every year for keeping their ass in the same seat. Why? If you’re doing the same shit, there’s no reason to give more than small inflation bumps.

If you’re not getting cost of living raises you are losing money. COL increase is more than the 3% trump thinks it is.
In my case I went from managing a department of 5 to a department of 14 with no pay increase for 4 years. And when I expressed I was unhappy with the job, despite my department doing extremely well, I was demoted and subsequently laid off.

Well, that's bullshit.

However, even at large tech companies you get "promoted" w/o a real pay increase until the next review cycle to see if you can handle it. The main reason for this is that if you were to get a large increase with the promotion and fail within a couple months, they normally never cut someone's pay.. so, they can easily drop you back to your old position or try something else w/o having you overpaid if you can't perform.

I went from managing a small team of 6 to a team of 50 and saw nothing significant until 9 months later.

Imagine going from 6 children to 50 overnight that all report directly to you and are all needy for 1:1 time to hear their complaints, all while you still need to do your job. Meanwhile you're not seeing any reward for the "promotion".

Luckily they don't forget about you though or tell you that you're lucky to be working.

[max225]

If you’re not getting cost of living raises you are losing money. COL increase is more than the 3% trump thinks it is.
In my case I went from managing a department of 5 to a department of 14 with no pay increase for 4 years. And when I expressed I was unhappy with the job, despite my department doing extremely well, I was demoted and subsequently laid off.

Well, that's bullshit.

However, even at large tech companies you get "promoted" w/o a real pay increase until the next review cycle to see if you can handle it. The main reason for this is that if you were to get a large increase with the promotion and fail within a couple months, they normally never cut someone's pay.. so, they can easily drop you back to your old position or try something else w/o having you overpaid if you can't perform.

I went from managing a small team of 6 to a team of 50 and saw nothing significant until 9 months later.

Imagine going from 6 children to 50 overnight that all report directly to you and are all needy for 1:1 time to hear their complaints, all while you still need to do your job. Meanwhile you're not seeing any reward for the "promotion".

Luckily they don't forget about you though or tell you that you're lucky to be working.

Yup, I got promoted in November, Just saw the money and title now... as of today. I dunno i have different view from anyone else.
Yes we’re lucky to have jobs and make money. Everyone is replaceable.

When markets are good vote with your body, leave Corp and go somewhere else, when they are bad you’re going to have to suck some dick get hit in the face and say thank you sir may I have another if you want a job.

I have done it all. We’re all slaves to the system.

[Johnny_P]

If you’re not getting cost of living raises you are losing money. COL increase is more than the 3% trump thinks it is.
In my case I went from managing a department of 5 to a department of 14 with no pay increase for 4 years. And when I expressed I was unhappy with the job, despite my department doing extremely well, I was demoted and subsequently laid off.

Well, that's bullshit.

However, even at large tech companies you get "promoted" w/o a real pay increase until the next review cycle to see if you can handle it. The main reason for this is that if you were to get a large increase with the promotion and fail within a couple months, they normally never cut someone's pay.. so, they can easily drop you back to your old position or try something else w/o having you overpaid if you can't perform.

I went from managing a small team of 6 to a team of 50 and saw nothing significant until 9 months later.

Imagine going from 6 children to 50 overnight that all report directly to you and are all needy for 1:1 time to hear their complaints, all while you still need to do your job. Meanwhile you're not seeing any reward for the "promotion".

Luckily they don't forget about you though or tell you that you're lucky to be working.

Oh totally get that. When I made manager, I didn't get the raise for 8 months for that reason. But when I switched from small department to larger much more technical department I got nothing, and that continued for another 2-3 years. I guess I was just lucky to have a job, considering the current circumstance.

I am more annoyed at my previous manager, whom I expressed dissatisfaction in the position with. He demoted me, and I'm sure put me on the shit list. Oh well. I'd love to work for a company that values its employees and if someone wants to take an unpaid leave that it's not totally off the table to do so, especially if that person has been working at the company for 11 years...

[max225]

I don’t know a company where you can leave and come back and pretend everything is ok. It’s sink or swim and plenty of people battling for every job. That’s just life.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It can be awesome or torturous. I worked in groups at GM where nobody even remotely cared about cars. That was super frustrating.

But when you can work with other car bros, it's a blast. I still don't see myself in the industry long...once podmobiles are a reality in 10-20 years, I don't have any interest in working on that shit.

You'll be slinging paint at the local Sherwin-Williams with a paid of in 10-20 years.

That's kind of what I'm working toward. Being able to just and become a paint slinger or Ace Hardware dude would be

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It can be awesome or torturous. I worked in groups at GM where nobody even remotely cared about cars. That was super frustrating.

But when you can work with other car bros, it's a blast. I still don't see myself in the industry long...once podmobiles are a reality in 10-20 years, I don't have any interest in working on that shit.

At that point you can go to aev or something and sell mini fridges to overmallers for 2k if there is still a country left. Plenty of adjacent industries that are still run by “enthusiasts”

Yea...we'll see. What I do is really only valued by large organizations, I'm afraid. I'd probably have to start my own thing, and I'm too risk averse to do that.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It can be awesome or torturous. I worked in groups at GM where nobody even remotely cared about cars. That was super frustrating.

But when you can work with other car bros, it's a blast. I still don't see myself in the industry long...once podmobiles are a reality in 10-20 years, I don't have any interest in working on that shit.

Perhaps you can become senior enough to lead up a team focused on enthusiast cars or something. Once full pod hits (I think this is far more than 20 years out), there will still be the freaks who want cars for fun, and I imagine brands like FCA will still oblige if it can be profitable. It'll just be a low volume thing more like motorcycles.

Good point. Maybe we'll see.

[CorvetteWaxer]

Well, that's bullshit.

However, even at large tech companies you get "promoted" w/o a real pay increase until the next review cycle to see if you can handle it. The main reason for this is that if you were to get a large increase with the promotion and fail within a couple months, they normally never cut someone's pay.. so, they can easily drop you back to your old position or try something else w/o having you overpaid if you can't perform.

I went from managing a small team of 6 to a team of 50 and saw nothing significant until 9 months later.

Imagine going from 6 children to 50 overnight that all report directly to you and are all needy for 1:1 time to hear their complaints, all while you still need to do your job. Meanwhile you're not seeing any reward for the "promotion".

Luckily they don't forget about you though or tell you that you're lucky to be working.

Yup, I got promoted in November, Just saw the money and title now... as of today. I dunno i have different view from anyone else.
Yes we’re lucky to have jobs and make money. Everyone is replaceable.

When markets are good vote with your body, leave Corp and go somewhere else, when they are bad you’re going to have to suck some dick get hit in the face and say thank you sir may I have another if you want a job.

I have done it all. We’re all slaves to the system.

No, I agree. I guess I wasn't really clear about the lucky to have a job thing.

We are all very lucky to be working and successful. There is no doubt about that. What I meant was that my management has never said that to me directly. I have had the discussion with my boss over the last 23+ years, sure and we've talked about how decisions we made worked out very well for us and the team. But, he's never told me to suck it up and be glad I have a job. I guess partly because I've never put him or myself in a position where that needs to be said.

[CorvetteWaxer]

You'll be slinging paint at the local Sherwin-Williams with a paid of in 10-20 years.

That's kind of what I'm working toward. Being able to just and become a paint slinger or Ace Hardware dude would be

I've thought about this too. Just to have something to do and pull in insurance coverage.

Also, I've been thinking seriously about starting a consulting company that would focus on everything I've learned about ISO and AutoSPICE certifications for software and hardware systems. Could work as an auditor and make good money for a reasonably short project.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

That's kind of what I'm working toward. Being able to just and become a paint slinger or Ace Hardware dude would be

I've thought about this too. Just to have something to do and pull in insurance coverage.

Also, I've been thinking seriously about starting a consulting company that would focus on everything I've learned about ISO and AutoSPICE certifications for software and hardware systems. Could work as an auditor and make good money for a reasonably short project.

Yea, if you have the contact list, consulting would be outstanding IMO.

[MrH42]

Was in the industry. I've moved on to the pharmaceutical world. I miss auto though. It was a really fun environment to work in. Working all day with car dudes making lame fast and furious references was a good time.

It can be awesome or torturous. I worked in groups at GM where nobody even remotely cared about cars. That was super frustrating.

But when you can work with other car bros, it's a blast. I still don't see myself in the industry long...once podmobiles are a reality in 10-20 years, I don't have any interest in working on that shit.

Yeah, automotive interiors...not a ton of car guys in it. At Bilstein though? Pretty much all car bros.

[D Griff]

Yup, I got promoted in November, Just saw the money and title now... as of today. I dunno i have different view from anyone else.
Yes we’re lucky to have jobs and make money. Everyone is replaceable.

When markets are good vote with your body, leave Corp and go somewhere else, when they are bad you’re going to have to suck some dick get hit in the face and say thank you sir may I have another if you want a job.

I have done it all. We’re all slaves to the system.

No, I agree. I guess I wasn't really clear about the lucky to have a job thing.

We are all very lucky to be working and successful. There is no doubt about that. What I meant was that my management has never said that to me directly. I have had the discussion with my boss over the last 23+ years, sure and we've talked about how decisions we made worked out very well for us and the team. But, he's never told me to suck it up and be glad I have a job. I guess partly because I've never put him or myself in a position where that needs to be said.

I haven't experienced that either, I think it's rare if you're not a bitch. It's staggering how many people just constantly complain at work and are just extremely unprofessional. I am making about 2X compared to my previous job (not really apples to apples with all of the travel bennies and such but still) and this job requires significantly less brain power, innovation, etc. It is very boring and I don't enjoy it as much, but way easier, and yet some here who are making great money just continue to bitch about the company screwing them over, not paying enough, etc. THEY are lucky to have jobs because if I was in management, I would can people with that attitude.

[Johnny_P]

I don’t know a company where you can leave and come back and pretend everything is ok. It’s sink or swim and plenty of people battling for every job. That’s just life.

Plenty of companies would allow that. The idea came from a few of my friends that did just that. They worked in finance and insurance type jobs though. Oil & energy is just too regressive when it comes to the workplace in general.

[max225]

I don’t know a company where you can leave and come back and pretend everything is ok. It’s sink or swim and plenty of people battling for every job. That’s just life.

Plenty of companies would allow that. The idea came from a few of my friends that did just that. They worked in finance and insurance type jobs though. Oil & energy is just too regressive when it comes to the workplace in general.

I can tell you I have never held a job where this would be considered ok. So you have another data point.