DYELB: The Gainz Train

Health, fitness, and nutrition freaks, lets see those gainz.
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coogles
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SAWCE wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:04 pm Looks good Coog! Full ROM is always a good thing, and I think taking a step down in weight while "re-learning" some of those movement patterns is something most people could do more often. That adductor ROM in particular is :impressive: I have horrible mobility there and need to keep working that stretch.
Thanks brother. ROM is easy to sacrifice when we're all after lifting heavier weights. Everyone defaults to adding weight being the primary way to progress an exercise, but of course it's really only one of several ways to improve.

With dips, for example, very few people will ever go much under 90* at the elbow. Even with just bodyweight most won't be able to go as low as I am there. During my first couple sets I still place a small band on the handles and set my knees on top of it to take some of that load off at the very bottom, then move on to bodyweight and then add a little extra on my last couple sets. The goal is eventually an extra 50% of BW in that range, so I obviously have a long way to go.
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coogles wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:24 pm
SAWCE wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:04 pm Looks good Coog! Full ROM is always a good thing, and I think taking a step down in weight while "re-learning" some of those movement patterns is something most people could do more often. That adductor ROM in particular is :impressive: I have horrible mobility there and need to keep working that stretch.
Thanks brother. ROM is easy to sacrifice when we're all after lifting heavier weights. Everyone defaults to adding weight being the primary way to progress an exercise, but of course it's really only one of several ways to improve.

With dips, for example, very few people will ever go much under 90* at the elbow. Even with just bodyweight most won't be able to go as low as I am there. During my first couple sets I still place a small band on the handles and set my knees on top of it to take some of that load off at the very bottom, then move on to bodyweight and then add a little extra on my last couple sets. The goal is eventually an extra 50% of BW in that range, so I obviously have a long way to go.
:fuckyeah:

Last year I took a step back from focusing on only progressing the weight, and started working on progressing my time under tension.. holy fuck I had to deload all my lifts significantly. Going from just banging out a quick set of 8-12 reps to actually slowing down the eccentric enough that each rep was taking 5 seconds and an 8-12 rep set takes between 40-60 seconds was a huge hit to my ego lifts, but I think I grew far more last year from doing that than I had in the couple of years leading up to it. Now I'm over where I was with those old weights, and still keeping the higher TUT :fuckyeah:
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SAWCE wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:29 pm :fuckyeah:

Last year I took a step back from focusing on only progressing the weight, and started working on progressing my time under tension.. holy fuck I had to deload all my lifts significantly. Going from just banging out a quick set of 8-12 reps to actually slowing down the eccentric enough that each rep was taking 5 seconds and an 8-12 rep set takes between 40-60 seconds was a huge hit to my ego lifts, but I think I grew far more last year from doing that than I had in the couple of years leading up to it. Now I'm over where I was with those old weights, and still keeping the higher TUT :fuckyeah:
Yeah man, TUT is another killer way to go. I've done that a few times and had the exact same experience, the weights I could handle at first felt pitiful. :lol:
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SAWCE wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:02 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:04 am

I am kind of back to a 531 type thing on bench, press, and barbell rows, then I supplement with light squat/DL reps and a bunch of smaller movement lifts. I am typically lifting 2X/week now and basically doing all upper body + squats one day and all upper body + DL one day. :notsure: if it is the optimal strategy but it seems to be working well with maintaining strength and some :massles: while not tiring out my legs much for cycling/running.
I think for lifting twice a week, you've probably got about as optimal a split as you can. You'll easily maintain strength/size with that, and could likely increase both if you wanted to train hard enough and add in more food.
:word: I don't really want to grow as being a skinny bitch is helpful for cycling and stuff, but at the same time, I don't want to lose all the :massles: So far it seems to be working pretty well :notbad:
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D Griff wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:45 pm
SAWCE wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:02 pm

I think for lifting twice a week, you've probably got about as optimal a split as you can. You'll easily maintain strength/size with that, and could likely increase both if you wanted to train hard enough and add in more food.
:word: I don't really want to grow as being a skinny bitch is helpful for cycling and stuff, but at the same time, I don't want to lose all the :massles: So far it seems to be working pretty well :notbad:
Yeah dude I think you're in a good place. And luckily, regaining lost muscle is infinitely easier than building it in the first place, so if you find over time that you do lose some muscle on this program and want to build back up to where you're at now, it won't be as hard as getting here in the first place was.
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SAWCE wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:54 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:45 pm

:word: I don't really want to grow as being a skinny bitch is helpful for cycling and stuff, but at the same time, I don't want to lose all the :massles: So far it seems to be working pretty well :notbad:
Yeah dude I think you're in a good place. And luckily, regaining lost muscle is infinitely easier than building it in the first place, so if you find over time that you do lose some muscle on this program and want to build back up to where you're at now, it won't be as hard as getting here in the first place was.
I didn't really know this last part :science: That is nice to know.

I imagine I will get somewhat bored with cycling at certain phases and more into lifting or running or whatever over time as well. Variety is key for me.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:24 pm
SAWCE wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:54 pm

Yeah dude I think you're in a good place. And luckily, regaining lost muscle is infinitely easier than building it in the first place, so if you find over time that you do lose some muscle on this program and want to build back up to where you're at now, it won't be as hard as getting here in the first place was.
I didn't really know this last part :science: That is nice to know.

I imagine I will get somewhat bored with cycling at certain phases and more into lifting or running or whatever over time as well. Variety is key for me.
Yeah man, 'tis true. Ultimately even endurance sports are an application of force, specifically relative to bodyweight. The stronger you are relative to your weight the more sub-maximal your effort can be to run or ride. I think the way you're doing it is probably the right way to go. Lift twice per week at a moderate intensity, do just enough to maintain your strength or improve it slightly, and spend the rest of your time working on the disciplines you're most interested in right now.
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Fridays are fun. It starts off with 5 minutes of sled work, alternating forward and backward. We have a Tank sled at the gym so I can adjust the resistance down one notch while going backward and really focus on reaching back and driving my knee over my toes.

I then do some hip flexion and knee flexion work as the buy-in for the squat movement. The idea being that being able to drive force into the ground isn't so useful if you then can't pick up your leg quickly for the next stride. Google the Monkey Foot if you're curious.

We then move into some VMO squats, 5 sets of 20 with 25% of bodyweight is the standard, then I decided to play with some bands on my last couple sets. Cheeks to sneaks, baby.

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Then some RDLs - I throw a little slant board under my feet for some extra stretch - 3 x 20 with ~50% of bodyweight. These aren't regular deadlifts, we're trying to work the posterior chain at a full stretch.

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Happy New Year y'all.
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Sup everybody, I thought I'd share each of the other three sessions from the week as part of the ATG Standards program. Monday might actually be my favorite.

We start off with 5 minutes of sled work again, then move on to the Petersen Step Up (down, really) for 5 sets of 20 on each leg. This is a progression of the Poliquin Step Up, which uses a slant board, and moves on to elevating the heel without any assistance. It requires an incredible amount of effort through the ankle and foot to keep that heel up while also stepping down from a 6" box to slowly bring the opposite heel down to the floor. If you want to see what it's like, try doing this the next time you go down the stairs, it's brutal! The pressure it puts in the knees is tremendous and has to be slowly worked up to. The standard is an extra 50% of bodyweight, but I only ended up adding 10lbs this session. Getting to 90lbs on my shoulders feels like a lifetime away, but I'll get there.

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The session finishes with 3 rounds of a superset of Nordic hamstring curls and reverse Nordics, AKA human knee extensions. I used to use band assistance on these and have since moved on to full bodyweight, but I'm still recessing the depth using a box. Baby steps.

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Last is the reverse Nordic. I actually just moved down to this lightest band today. I used to not even be able to get into this position without bearing any load, and now I'm not far off from being able to get my shoulder blades all the way down to the floor with no assistance. It's crazy, I never thought I'd be able to do this stuff.

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Looks great dude. That's a deep ass squat with that wedge to maximize knee flexion :megusta: I use the little heel lifts that came with my Metcons, but I could use a little more help since my ankle mobility in my right ankle got fucked when I rolled it pretty bad two years ago. Hasn't been the same since. Sometimes I'll pop a little 2.5 or 5lb plate under my heel to drive my knees forward even more.
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SAWCE wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:13 am Looks great dude. That's a deep ass squat with that wedge to maximize knee flexion :megusta: I use the little heel lifts that came with my Metcons, but I could use a little more help since my ankle mobility in my right ankle got fucked when I rolled it pretty bad two years ago. Hasn't been the same since. Sometimes I'll pop a little 2.5 or 5lb plate under my heel to drive my knees forward even more.
Thanks :mahman: Full hamstring over calf coverage is the goal. Oly shoes or some other method to get those knees forward is a good idea for most people unless you're doing a crazy wide powerlifting squat. These are on a whole other level, though, with in this case 30* of lift and the knees pointed straight ahead rather than flared out like in a typical squat. We're purposefully putting all of the force through the VMO to strengthen around the knee. Bodyweight using this approach feels like I have at least 135 on my shoulders.

I had surgery on my right ankle back in 2016 so I know all about ankle mobility struggles. But this program has me measuring well past "normal" ankle mobility even on that surgically repaired side, and my left ankle is even more mobile. The ATG Zero program would help you make some improvements there for sure and can be layered onto any other training approach.
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coogles wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:50 am
SAWCE wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:13 am Looks great dude. That's a deep ass squat with that wedge to maximize knee flexion :megusta: I use the little heel lifts that came with my Metcons, but I could use a little more help since my ankle mobility in my right ankle got fucked when I rolled it pretty bad two years ago. Hasn't been the same since. Sometimes I'll pop a little 2.5 or 5lb plate under my heel to drive my knees forward even more.
Thanks :mahman: Full hamstring over calf coverage is the goal. Oly shoes or some other method to get those knees forward is a good idea for most people unless you're doing a crazy wide powerlifting squat. These are on a whole other level, though, with in this case 30* of lift and the knees pointed straight ahead rather than flared out like in a typical squat. We're purposefully putting all of the force through the VMO to strengthen around the knee. Bodyweight using this approach feels like I have at least 135 on my shoulders.

I had surgery on my right ankle back in 2016 so I know all about ankle mobility struggles. But this program has me measuring well past "normal" ankle mobility even on that surgically repaired side, and my left ankle is even more mobile. The ATG Zero program would help you make some improvements there for sure and can be layered onto any other training approach.
I'll have to look into adding some of that programming into what I do to help with the mobility and just make sure I'm getting that full flexion in my knee.

Hit legs yesterday with my new training partner.. Started with extensions and curls really light just to get some blood moving and prep our knees. Then we hit the full workout:

Extensions: three working sets, increase weight each set, last set do a double drop set. I worked up to 215 for my last working set, and took 150 and then 105 for the drop sets. 8-12 reps is the goal for the working sets and the drops we do 10 reps. First drop I had to take a pause at rep 8, so I made up for it by doing 11 reps.

Belt squat: one primer set with just a couple of reps to grease the movement and get the right position with one plate on each side of the machine. Then two working sets with two plates on each side. Got 12 reps on both of those, but he had to spot me out of the hole on the last few reps of the second set. Then a third working set, but backed the weight back off to just one plate per side and really exaggerated the negative portion of each rep. Got another 12 reps there.

Hack squats: did two primer sets, one with 2 plates per side for 4 reps , and one with 4pps for 2 reps. Didn't go up much from there for the working sets, but hit 4 plates and a 10lb on each side for a set of 12. Went again for a set of 8 with him spotting me to 10. Then the backoff set of 3pps for another 12 reps to keep the volume and TUT high. That sets was brutal.

Single leg press: 2pps, 15 reps each leg. Did that twice, then after the second set immediately put both feet on the platform and got 10 really deep, slow reps.

Seated curls: Same format as everything else, did 160lbs for 12, then 170lbs for 12, then back off set with 135 for 12.

Stiff leg deadlifts: we used the "heavy" smith machine.. it's an oldschool one with no cables and counterweights and the bar path is straight up and down. Someone tagged the machine saying the bar is 85lbs of resistance instead of 45 like a normal barbell, not sure how accurate it is, but it feels right. Hit 2 sets on there with 2 25s on each side. got 12 on both of them, so will go up for sure next time. Gym was closing so had to bounce before we could do the backoff set, but we'll get in a littler earlier next time and move a little quicker so we can hit that last set on there and throw in some calves after.
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Damn dude, that's a full leg day. Is that a 1x per week affair or are you doing that kind of volume more than once per week? How much of an increase is that over what you could do off the gear?

I did 11 sets total today plus the sled work, and that's about as much as I can do and still feel like I can be active the next day. Though, granted, I'm basically working legs 6x per week between the ATG sessions and the bike. Volumes of course have to be much lower to facilitate that.
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coogles wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:56 am Damn dude, that's a full leg day. Is that a 1x per week affair or are you doing that kind of volume more than once per week? How much of an increase is that over what you could do off the gear?

I did 11 sets total today plus the sled work, and that's about as much as I can do and still feel like I can be active the next day. Though, granted, I'm basically working legs 6x per week between the ATG sessions and the bike. Volumes of course have to be much lower to facilitate that.
Oh no, that's just once a week. I do throw in a little extra hamstring work later in the week since they only get two movements on the leg day, but that volume stays pretty low with just two movements for 2 working sets.

Probably a 25-30% increase in volume more than what I could recover from au naturale.
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SAWCE wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:15 pm Oh no, that's just once a week. I do throw in a little extra hamstring work later in the week since they only get two movements on the leg day, but that volume stays pretty low with just two movements for 2 working sets.

Probably a 25-30% increase in volume more than what I could recover from au naturale.
Makes sense. That's a lot to recover from. Good stuff!

If you want a killer way to hit those hamstrings, definitely get yourself one of these:

https://animalhousefitness.com/products/monkeyfeet

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coogles wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:40 pm
SAWCE wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:15 pm Oh no, that's just once a week. I do throw in a little extra hamstring work later in the week since they only get two movements on the leg day, but that volume stays pretty low with just two movements for 2 working sets.

Probably a 25-30% increase in volume more than what I could recover from au naturale.
Makes sense. That's a lot to recover from. Good stuff!

If you want a killer way to hit those hamstrings, definitely get yourself one of these:

https://animalhousefitness.com/products/monkeyfeet

Oh yeah I've seen those. Probably one of the best ways to train hamstrings if you don't have gym access. Should my gym ever close again I'll grab them for sure.

Making a trip up to Oregon this weekend for a funeral. We'll be staying in Seaside, OR. Looks like they have a pretty sick gym called Iron Den, so I'll lift there on Friday. Then at the end of the month we'll be back up there to scope our apartments we're interested in around Portland and I'll probably lift at PDX Muscle there, but I'm hoping to scope out a few gyms on that trip and find where I'll train 99% of the time after we move.
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SAWCE wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:28 pm Oh yeah I've seen those. Probably one of the best ways to train hamstrings if you don't have gym access. Should my gym ever close again I'll grab them for sure.

Making a trip up to Oregon this weekend for a funeral. We'll be staying in Seaside, OR. Looks like they have a pretty sick gym called Iron Den, so I'll lift there on Friday. Then at the end of the month we'll be back up there to scope our apartments we're interested in around Portland and I'll probably lift at PDX Muscle there, but I'm hoping to scope out a few gyms on that trip and find where I'll train 99% of the time after we move.
I prefer it to a hamstring curl machine, honestly. Being seated and in a flexed position at the hip doesn't allow for glute activation, but the Monkeyfeet does especially if you keep an upright torso, which IMO promotes a more natural pattern of glute then hammy activation.

The combination of that thing on Fridays and it emphasizing the short range, then Nordics on Mondays emphasizing the long range has completely solved my hamstring issues I've dealt with since tearing the crap out of my left one at 17. They've also blown the fuck up. :megusta: I've always had :poop: hamstrings.
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coogles wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:39 pm
SAWCE wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:28 pm Oh yeah I've seen those. Probably one of the best ways to train hamstrings if you don't have gym access. Should my gym ever close again I'll grab them for sure.

Making a trip up to Oregon this weekend for a funeral. We'll be staying in Seaside, OR. Looks like they have a pretty sick gym called Iron Den, so I'll lift there on Friday. Then at the end of the month we'll be back up there to scope our apartments we're interested in around Portland and I'll probably lift at PDX Muscle there, but I'm hoping to scope out a few gyms on that trip and find where I'll train 99% of the time after we move.
I prefer it to a hamstring curl machine, honestly. Being seated and in a flexed position at the hip doesn't allow for glute activation, but the Monkeyfeet does especially if you keep an upright torso, which IMO promotes a more natural pattern of glute then hammy activation.

The combination of that thing on Fridays and it emphasizing the short range, then Nordics on Mondays emphasizing the long range has completely solved my hamstring issues I've dealt with since tearing the crap out of my left one at 17. They've also blown the fuck up. :megusta: I've always had :poop: hamstrings.
Dang.. maybe I'll have to look into adding that into my current programming then.. I need more hang on my hammies.
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Sup meatheads. I was in a rush and didn't film any of my session yesterday, but Tuesdays are probably my least favorite day anyway. The main focus is shoulder mobility, which is super important obviously but I don't get jazzed up about it. There's also some posterior chain and hip flexor work too. One of the movements is really different so I'll take a sec to go through that one next week at least.

Today I switched up my warmup and did 5 minutes of backward deadmills to really get the blood flowing around the knees and then some progressively faster sprint intervals on the Assault Runner. We then moved into some tibialus work using the Tib Bar (https://thehomegymguy.com.au/products/the-tib-bar), superset with calf work to target the soleus specifically. The tibialus is key to preventing force going up to the knee under deceleration, and the soleus is that outer calf muscle and of course is important for plantarflexion.

The last exercise is sort of ATG's signature movement, the ATG split squat. It looks like this:

Image

I'm using a 10* slant board but am otherwise on flat ground, and considering where I started that's mind-blowing. You squeeze that front tibialus to flex as much as possible at the ankle, while also contracting that back glute to keep the back knee off the floor. Complete hamstring over calf coverage is again the goal here, moving the knee into compression before standing back up. This movement really helps strengthen the knees and lengthen the hip flexors. This movement can of course be loaded as well, either with dumbbells or a bar on the front of the shoulders.

A better demo:

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Nice dude!
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Really interesting stuff, Coogs! Cool to see some different. I should try out that knee exercise, I do need to strengthen/increase flexibility in the joints/lower body which I think would assist cycling. It looks very not fun :doe: :lolol:

Also as someone who has always been unathletic/inflexible/uncoordinated it would definitely be tricky to start out.
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Weight had stagnated a bit, and then dropped both of the last two weeks. Coach just added in a small amount of calories from 25g of carbs in the morning with my breakfast. I don't think that 100 cals is going to make me start gaining weight, but might be enough to stop me from losing weight. Not sure why my weight started dropping other than that I've been training harder and I might be creating a greater need for calories.
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SAWCE wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:14 am Weight had stagnated a bit, and then dropped both of the last two weeks. Coach just added in a small amount of calories from 25g of carbs in the morning with my breakfast. I don't think that 100 cals is going to make me start gaining weight, but might be enough to stop me from losing weight. Not sure why my weight started dropping other than that I've been training harder and I might be creating a greater need for calories.
My :fatty: :datass: has gaine about 15 pounds since the start of November :disgust:

I guess I need to lock down my diet.
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D Griff wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:19 am
SAWCE wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:14 am Weight had stagnated a bit, and then dropped both of the last two weeks. Coach just added in a small amount of calories from 25g of carbs in the morning with my breakfast. I don't think that 100 cals is going to make me start gaining weight, but might be enough to stop me from losing weight. Not sure why my weight started dropping other than that I've been training harder and I might be creating a greater need for calories.
My :fatty: :datass: has gaine about 15 pounds since the start of November :disgust:

I guess I need to lock down my diet.
:impressive:

My body is stubbornly consistent, I don't think I could put on much extra muscle without some serious lifestyle changes or some sawce. I also don't really get :fatty: or super lean, either, even when I'm loading up on cardio. I'm a whole 3 pounds heavier than I was when I graduated from college in 2008. :lol: :old:
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SAWCE wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:08 amNice dude!
D Griff wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:13 am Really interesting stuff, Coogs! Cool to see some different. I should try out that knee exercise, I do need to strengthen/increase flexibility in the joints/lower body which I think would assist cycling. It looks very not fun :doe: :lolol:

Also as someone who has always been unathletic/inflexible/uncoordinated it would definitely be tricky to start out.
Thanks guys. This approach is definitely different, which after hitting the traditional lifts and accessory work for years and years has given me a ton of energy and enthusiasm to train again.

And Griff, the best thing about this program is that it can all regress to any level. "Regress to progress". No matter where you're starting from you'd be able to start this stuff in some capacity.
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