Electricity thread.. Ask me questions if you'd like.

[MrH42]

What's the expected bump if you go EV? I'm curious how the numbers all work out.

You're definitely in the best use case for it in California I feel like: relatively expensive electricity, big incentives, lots of sunshine, frequent power outages

You don't have that perfect storm pretty much anywhere else in the country.

It would just about add 1-1.5X what I am currently using.

Also one thing to keep in mind is we have a sliding usage scale for electricity.
If you're within some ass averages you're at 26c per kw, it quickly moves to 33c, and if you exceed an average you're at 50C! per kw, and this amount will never go down.

Also I am going to try and see if I can switch from gas to electric heating... Just to see how much it'll take. Overall I don't generate THAT much but I expect to fully use the 10,500kw annual generating capacity.

You can do the here that is around ~$2500-3500 or so annually for electricity, once I fully utilize it with an EV. ~5-7 year pay off for the system. With no increases in rates, which we all know we will happen. Also the system easily adds more in value than the cost.. bizarre but that's how it is here in cali. So I have no qualms on the "cost".

What kind of whacky ass system is that?! Is that due to state legislation or something?

For reference, I pay $.048 /kWh. So your cost per kWh starts at 5 times more than mine, and could go up to 10 times more if you use too much. My brain can't even comprehend.

[max225]

It would just about add 1-1.5X what I am currently using.

Also one thing to keep in mind is we have a sliding usage scale for electricity.
If you're within some ass averages you're at 26c per kw, it quickly moves to 33c, and if you exceed an average you're at 50C! per kw, and this amount will never go down.

Also I am going to try and see if I can switch from gas to electric heating... Just to see how much it'll take. Overall I don't generate THAT much but I expect to fully use the 10,500kw annual generating capacity.

You can do the here that is around ~$2500-3500 or so annually for electricity, once I fully utilize it with an EV. ~5-7 year pay off for the system. With no increases in rates, which we all know we will happen. Also the system easily adds more in value than the cost.. bizarre but that's how it is here in cali. So I have no qualms on the "cost".

What kind of whacky ass system is that?! Is that due to state legislation or something?

For reference, I pay $.048 /kWh. So your cost per kWh starts at 5 times more than mine, and could go up to 10 times more if you use too much. My brain can't even comprehend.

It is just dumb... and immensely complex. It is partial state/partial private entity. Worst of all worlds.

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/p ... ricing.pdf

Here is a quick reference guide. But they look to be lower for the top tier... It is supremely complex, varies by time and usage and SEASON! And multiple other variables based on your zip code etc etc etc. It is literally the most insane thing ever.

[Huckleberry]

My house is entirely electric and I have been thinking about going solar, but I'm not giving Tesla any money.

What's the battery replacement cost when it reaches end of life? What's the expected runtime when on the DC plant?

[MrH42]

What kind of whacky ass system is that?! Is that due to state legislation or something?

For reference, I pay $.048 /kWh. So your cost per kWh starts at 5 times more than mine, and could go up to 10 times more if you use too much. My brain can't even comprehend.

It is just dumb... and immensely complex. It is partial state/partial private entity. Worst of all worlds.

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/p ... ricing.pdf

Here is a quick reference guide. But they look to be lower for the top tier... It is supremely complex, varies by time and usage and SEASON! And multiple other variables based on your zip code etc etc etc. It is literally the most insane thing ever.

Wow. Unbelievable.

I think I'd want to go solar to just try to isolate from that BS. Makes me really thankful I don't have to deal with that.

You should get a Ford Lightning. More storage capacity!

[max225]

My house is entirely electric and I have been thinking about going solar, but I'm not giving Tesla any money.

What's the battery replacement cost when it reaches end of life? What's the expected runtime when on the DC plant?

10k of today’s dollars. DC plant ? I mean it’s 11kw or so of “usable” capacity so once the aliens take out the sky you have about 36hrs-48hrs before you’re back to the dark ages. Or 2 hrs if you run the ac

[max225]

It is just dumb... and immensely complex. It is partial state/partial private entity. Worst of all worlds.

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/p ... ricing.pdf

Here is a quick reference guide. But they look to be lower for the top tier... It is supremely complex, varies by time and usage and SEASON! And multiple other variables based on your zip code etc etc etc. It is literally the most insane thing ever.

Wow. Unbelievable.

I think I'd want to go solar to just try to isolate from that BS. Makes me really thankful I don't have to deal with that.

You should get a Ford Lightning. More storage capacity!

Lightning doesn’t fit in garage. Not gonna happen

[MrH42]

Wow. Unbelievable.

I think I'd want to go solar to just try to isolate from that BS. Makes me really thankful I don't have to deal with that.

You should get a Ford Lightning. More storage capacity!

Lightning doesn’t fit in garage. Not gonna happen

[max225]

I would love an electric Lincoln Aviator or something of that size... and I am sure they are coming... but probably 2-3 years out.

[D Griff]

I would love an electric Lincoln Aviator or something of that size... and I am sure they are coming... but probably 2-3 years out.

Yep, the Lincoln SUVs are pretty underrated IMO.

[Huckleberry]

I would love an electric Lincoln Aviator or something of that size... and I am sure they are coming... but probably 2-3 years out.

Yep, the Lincoln SUVs are pretty underrated IMO.

I always forget that Lincoln still exists.

[D Griff]

Yep, the Lincoln SUVs are pretty underrated IMO.

I always forget that Lincoln still exists.

Everyone does... but they are very attractive and nice and inside.

[goIftdibrad]

Been finally up and running for almost an entire month. After a 3 month long fiasco to get permission to use the system.

So far it’s up to my expectations and the that I did. But the power wall is a bit less useful than I probably thought … it provides a great off the grid factor but the capacity to cost ratio is really tough. $1K per kw

I’m essentially 99% off the grid as of the last 25 days the only two times I used the grid was for only 1-3kw total per day due to absolutely 0 sun for multiple days and “100 year” storm …

Neat!

Also I am going to try and see if I can switch from gas to electric heating... Just to see how much it'll take. Overall I don't generate THAT much but I expect to fully use the 10,500kw annual generating capacity.

why tho. If your system is working fine cheaper to keeper. I assume its central? If you have a failure putting in a heat pump in your climate probably makes sense. If not central, they do make heat pump window units and that would also make sense. Electric resistance heating tho? Avoid. Very energy intensive / expensive.

How much is NG in CA? It's very cheap here in TN and power is about 10 cent a KWh.

[max225]

Been finally up and running for almost an entire month. After a 3 month long fiasco to get permission to use the system.

So far it’s up to my expectations and the that I did. But the power wall is a bit less useful than I probably thought … it provides a great off the grid factor but the capacity to cost ratio is really tough. $1K per kw

I’m essentially 99% off the grid as of the last 25 days the only two times I used the grid was for only 1-3kw total per day due to absolutely 0 sun for multiple days and “100 year” storm …

Neat!

Also I am going to try and see if I can switch from gas to electric heating... Just to see how much it'll take. Overall I don't generate THAT much but I expect to fully use the 10,500kw annual generating capacity.

why tho. If your system is working fine cheaper to keeper. I assume its central? If you have a failure putting in a heat pump in your climate probably makes sense. If not central, they do make heat pump window units and that would also make sense. Electric resistance heating tho? Avoid. Very energy intensive / expensive.

How much is NG in CA? It's very cheap here in TN and power is about 10 cent a KWh.

That was a thought before I knew how little I would generate in the winter. I expected about 1/2, but it is closer to 1/4 of summer generation. I can't cover off.... I really need to go through an entire year before making capital exceptions. My plan was to try and be fully off the grid, but I can't be with a battery of my size + heating.

[goIftdibrad]

Neat!



why tho. If your system is working fine cheaper to keeper. I assume its central? If you have a failure putting in a heat pump in your climate probably makes sense. If not central, they do make heat pump window units and that would also make sense. Electric resistance heating tho? Avoid. Very energy intensive / expensive.

How much is NG in CA? It's very cheap here in TN and power is about 10 cent a KWh.

That was a thought before I knew how little I would generate in the winter. I expected about 1/2, but it is closer to 1/4 of summer generation. I can't cover off.... I really need to go through an entire year before making capital exceptions. My plan was to try and be fully off the grid, but I can't be with a battery of my size + heating.

Got it. as long as gas stays cheap use that its the best. If you really want solar heat, the answer is to cut the middle man and do solar thermal. But...now all the power panels are in the way! Thermal mass is a thing too; slowing heating big mass of water or concrete during the day to release at night. Still a challenge for a residential structure to retrofit.

[max225]

That was a thought before I knew how little I would generate in the winter. I expected about 1/2, but it is closer to 1/4 of summer generation. I can't cover off.... I really need to go through an entire year before making capital exceptions. My plan was to try and be fully off the grid, but I can't be with a battery of my size + heating.

Got it. as long as gas stays cheap use that its the best. If you really want solar heat, the answer is to cut the middle man and do solar thermal. But...now all the power panels are in the way! Thermal mass is a thing too; slowing heating big mass of water or concrete during the day to release at night. Still a challenge for a residential structure to retrofit.

Yea gas is relatively "cheap" even with the 30% increase this year

[ChrisoftheNorth]

That was a thought before I knew how little I would generate in the winter. I expected about 1/2, but it is closer to 1/4 of summer generation. I can't cover off.... I really need to go through an entire year before making capital exceptions. My plan was to try and be fully off the grid, but I can't be with a battery of my size + heating.

Got it. as long as gas stays cheap use that its the best. If you really want solar heat, the answer is to cut the middle man and do solar thermal. But...now all the power panels are in the way! Thermal mass is a thing too; slowing heating big mass of water or concrete during the day to release at night. Still a challenge for a residential structure to retrofit.

Our concrete house is built to maximize this. It was originally built with 4 4' tall water columns in the living room that took in direct sunlight in the winter and would stay warm all night. The water heater also had solar pre-heaters in the same way.

Those were removed by POs over time, but the entire structure is still concrete. Last week we had a day of full sun and a high temp of 10. The house was 75 degrees inside and neither the furnace nor stove ran once. AND the temps didn't drop into the 60s until a few hours after sunset. Even then, the stove barely ran and kept the whole house at 68.

But days where it's cloudy, we get none of that benefit. Solar gain is incredible.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Got it. as long as gas stays cheap use that its the best. If you really want solar heat, the answer is to cut the middle man and do solar thermal. But...now all the power panels are in the way! Thermal mass is a thing too; slowing heating big mass of water or concrete during the day to release at night. Still a challenge for a residential structure to retrofit.

Yea gas is relatively "cheap" even with the 30% increase this year

Our energy bills came in yesterday for the last month. Outside highs below freezing for 30 days, we heat the inside of the house to 68 (drop down to 64 while sleeping) and paid $300 total...$140 for electric and $160 for gas. Last year, gas was the cheaper of the two, but it's still reasonable with the house at 68.

[goIftdibrad]

Got it. as long as gas stays cheap use that its the best. If you really want solar heat, the answer is to cut the middle man and do solar thermal. But...now all the power panels are in the way! Thermal mass is a thing too; slowing heating big mass of water or concrete during the day to release at night. Still a challenge for a residential structure to retrofit.

Our concrete house is built to maximize this. It was originally built with 4 4' tall water columns in the living room that took in direct sunlight in the winter and would stay warm all night. The water heater also had solar pre-heaters in the same way.

Those were removed by POs over time, but the entire structure is still concrete. Last week we had a day of full sun and a high temp of 10. The house was 75 degrees inside and neither the furnace nor stove ran once. AND the temps didn't drop into the 60s until a few hours after sunset. Even then, the stove barely ran and kept the whole house at 68.

But days where it's cloudy, we get none of that benefit. Solar gain is incredible.

Yes. Summer in the south tho...not so much lol

[wap]

Yea gas is relatively "cheap" even with the 30% increase this year

Our energy bills came in yesterday for the last month. Outside highs below freezing for 30 days, we heat the inside of the house to 68 (drop down to 64 while sleeping) and paid $300 total...$140 for electric and $160 for gas. Last year, gas was the cheaper of the two, but it's still reasonable with the house at 68.

My combined electric and gas bills for last month were almost exactly the same: $299.42. Granted, our December was probably not as cold as yours, though we certainly had several days of below freezing temps, but our is a 215 year old 2900 sq ft balloon construction wood frame house with zero insulation in the walls and a 29 year old gas boiler. We keep the temp at 71F during the day and 64 over night. And our hot water heater, 6 burner/dual oven stove, and fireplace in our party room are all gas fired. We also have a gas-heated garage but didn't turn it on until this month.

Being the same $$ as yours with much more sq ft, minimal insulation (just in the attic), old, original windows with drafty storm windows, and zero heat-generating wizardry like you have, that's pretty fucking IMO.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Our energy bills came in yesterday for the last month. Outside highs below freezing for 30 days, we heat the inside of the house to 68 (drop down to 64 while sleeping) and paid $300 total...$140 for electric and $160 for gas. Last year, gas was the cheaper of the two, but it's still reasonable with the house at 68.

My combined electric and gas bills for last month were almost exactly the same: $299.42. Granted, our December was probably not as cold as yours, though we certainly had several days of below freezing temps, but our is a 215 year old 2900 sq ft balloon construction wood frame house with zero insulation in the walls and a 29 year old gas boiler. We keep the temp at 71F during the day and 64 over night. And our hot water heater, 6 burner/dual oven stove, and fireplace in our party room are all gas fired. We also have a gas-heated garage but didn't turn it on until this month.

Being the same $$ as yours with much more sq ft, minimal insulation (just in the attic), old, original windows with drafty storm windows, and zero heat-generating wizardry like you have, that's pretty fucking IMO.

You MUST have cheaper energy rates.

We had a house just like yours. 1910, 2,800 sq ft, balloon construction, no insulation, original windows, etc and just to heat the fucker to 65 the gas bill ALONE was $350 a few years ago. There was electric baseboard heaters in the kitchen and back porch (for reasons ?) so the electric bill was an extra $150 on top of that.

[Desertbreh]

My combined electric and gas bills for last month were almost exactly the same: $299.42. Granted, our December was probably not as cold as yours, though we certainly had several days of below freezing temps, but our is a 215 year old 2900 sq ft balloon construction wood frame house with zero insulation in the walls and a 29 year old gas boiler. We keep the temp at 71F during the day and 64 over night. And our hot water heater, 6 burner/dual oven stove, and fireplace in our party room are all gas fired. We also have a gas-heated garage but didn't turn it on until this month.

Being the same $$ as yours with much more sq ft, minimal insulation (just in the attic), old, original windows with drafty storm windows, and zero heat-generating wizardry like you have, that's pretty fucking IMO.

You MUST have cheaper energy rates.

We had a house just like yours. 1910, 2,800 sq ft, balloon construction, no insulation, original windows, etc and just to heat the fucker to 65 the gas bill ALONE was $350 a few years ago. There was electric baseboard heaters in the kitchen and back porch (for reasons ?) so the electric bill was an extra $150 on top of that.

Yeah Ron is living in some Chi-Town subsidized rate zone. Section 8 Leafy Green Suburbia. Kind of like his 15 year trouble free VWs. Teflondon.com

[wap]

My combined electric and gas bills for last month were almost exactly the same: $299.42. Granted, our December was probably not as cold as yours, though we certainly had several days of below freezing temps, but our is a 215 year old 2900 sq ft balloon construction wood frame house with zero insulation in the walls and a 29 year old gas boiler. We keep the temp at 71F during the day and 64 over night. And our hot water heater, 6 burner/dual oven stove, and fireplace in our party room are all gas fired. We also have a gas-heated garage but didn't turn it on until this month.

Being the same $$ as yours with much more sq ft, minimal insulation (just in the attic), old, original windows with drafty storm windows, and zero heat-generating wizardry like you have, that's pretty fucking IMO.

You MUST have cheaper energy rates.

We had a house just like yours. 1910, 2,800 sq ft, balloon construction, no insulation, original windows, etc and just to heat the fucker to 65 the gas bill ALONE was $350 a few years ago. There was electric baseboard heaters in the kitchen and back porch (for reasons ?) so the electric bill was an extra $150 on top of that.

Probably.

I think lathe and plaster walls give some insulation benefits, too.

January is shaping up to be colder than December, and I'm running our garage heater this month. We'll see what next month's bills look like.

[wap]

You MUST have cheaper energy rates.

We had a house just like yours. 1910, 2,800 sq ft, balloon construction, no insulation, original windows, etc and just to heat the fucker to 65 the gas bill ALONE was $350 a few years ago. There was electric baseboard heaters in the kitchen and back porch (for reasons ?) so the electric bill was an extra $150 on top of that.

Yeah Ron is living in some Chi-Town subsidized rate zone. Section 8 Leafy Green Suburbia. Kind of like his 15 year trouble free VWs. Teflondon.com

Speaking of which, just talked to the dude that bought my Mk4 last week. It's 23 yo this year (4/99 build date, iirc) and he says it's still running great, every electronic thing still works, and he's just now seeing the first visible rust behind the front tars. That car and the 2.slow are . Dangerously slow, super raliable.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

You MUST have cheaper energy rates.

We had a house just like yours. 1910, 2,800 sq ft, balloon construction, no insulation, original windows, etc and just to heat the fucker to 65 the gas bill ALONE was $350 a few years ago. There was electric baseboard heaters in the kitchen and back porch (for reasons ?) so the electric bill was an extra $150 on top of that.

Probably.

I think lathe and plaster walls give some insulation benefits, too.

January is shaping up to be colder than December, and I'm running our garage heater this month. We'll see what next month's bills look like.

My old house was lath and plaster, our new house is multiple feet thick poured concrete walls and pre-cast flexcore concrete roof with membrane, sand, and another 6" concrete slab poured on top. It does not get more insulated.

I do suspect that the tower is all wood and maybe not that well insulated. It acts as a chimney for heat, but there's a door to close it off from the main living space and that makes a pretty big difference, still probably some heat loss. I've been working on improving insulation in the solarium (the only other non-concrete part of the house), which make a difference too.

We also only have gas for the furnace and the stove downstairs. Every single other thing is electric, which surprised me when the gas bill was a bit on the high side. I think using the small gas stove as the sole heat source might not be the most efficient, so I've been trying to find the right temp to set it at so it's not running 24/7 and the forced air furnace fills in the rest. I doubt I'll make a noticeable dent in the energy bills though, but I thought they were until your report.

[max225]

Other than comparing $ you need to be comparing price per therm.