Detroit Moves to the Woods?

Building Bag End? Did your front fall off? More leaks than a Chinese steamboat? Show us your pinterest projects!
Post Reply
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

It's been a while that I've been considering slowing down. We've dedicated ourselves to no kids, we have very few family connections, and what we really value the most in life is our own time in the outdoors. Living in the city was a necessity for jobs, but we've always wanted to get out. Covid hit, the wife lost her job and can't find a new one paying a while lot, so with significantly diminished income and a WFH situation for me "for the foreseeable future", timing to reestablish somewhere else is prime.

We've visited Traverse City, MI more times than I can count over the last 7 years living in Michigan. We've been in every season, and every time absolutely love it. We've made friends up here and have a small established social circle, and one of those friends bought a house on the water and is selling his current house. House needs work and he had plans of fixing it up before selling it to maximize return. We asked if he'd rent it to us for a month to test out the area, but we're quickly falling in love with the house as well. He's all about a quick transaction between friends to minimize his costs and hassle.

The house is situated on 1.6 acres on top of a bluff on Old Mission Peninsula, in the Grand Traverse Bay. The area reminds of of the mountains in Southern CA...Big Bear or Arrowhead, very hilly, lots of trees, and abundant fresh water. Built in 1980 and 1,600 sq ft, it was a super modern earth berm house, built into the hill with walls, floors, and ceiling all poured reinforced concrete. The most unique feature is something we've dubbed "the treehouse" which is the only visible element of the house from the street...a two story tower into the trees with views of the bay and surrounding hills. It feels like a run-down 80's nature resort/retreat complete with hiking trails around the property and the entire bluff, a sauna in the first floor master, and an indoor in-ground hot tub (that was removed) on the lower level. The community also shares private frontage on the bay, in which we hike to and swim in most mornings, all 20 minutes from downtown Traverse City. It's like no house/area I've ever seen, and our desire to restore it to it's former glory is really strong. Our friend will sell it to us for half of what we can sell our city house for, leaving us ample proceeds to fix the house up, pay off all debts (my truck), and still invest some. Taxes are a quarter of what we pay in the city, for a total monthly obligation in the $1.5k range including mortgage, taxes, insurance. Such a drastic reduction in COL opens up a lot of employment opportunities for both of us, and give us a shot at a significantly more relaxed and easy lifestyle. A partial retirement at 35, if you will.

On to the pictures...

From the street:
Image

Circular driveway, can start to see the house...
Image

Decent size garage, not a lot smaller than mine, only not as high inside
Image

"The treehouse", and rest of the house is under the ground
Image

Down the walkway past the front door
Image

Wood walkway goes to both the first level and bottom level, here's the first level
Image

All windows off the first level, the dirt outside is actually on top of the concrete ceiling of the lower level
Image

A view out doesn't capture the elevation, but you can make out the roof of the nearest neighbor on the lower left of this image
Image

All levels of the house from the outside
Image

Now, to the inside...

Walk in to the stairs up, or down. The stairs up are all steel with wood treads (steel support under them) going up...
Image

And up...
Image

Into the treehouse
Image

The view, cutting down small trees on the property will open this up drastically
Image

Now, downstairs in the living room, all windows. My makeshift office in the corner and the :doge: and :pussy: approve
Image

The kitchen needs love
Image

But the view out has potential
Image

More windows in master
Image

In a somewhat Frank Lloyd Wright style, the bedrooms have these neat built-in dressers. These are solid oak, really well crafted units
Image

Sauna in master bathroom
Image

Onto the bottom level, this needs the most love. Check out this "greenroom" under those boards is a hole for a recessed hot tub. Wiring already present and in good condition. Wood looks worse than it is, the cedar trim isn't rotted, but the windows are toast
Image

Lighted gun case could make epic whisky storage
Image

There's a bedroom and bathroom on the lower level that's in decent shape, but not much to see. The bathroom does have a door out to the green room so you can rinse off after using the hot tub.

I'll take photos on my next hike to show the hiking trails and the water. Will also document the scenery of the area bit more. We're probably 95% doing this at this point. I haven't had a drink or smoke in the last few days because I just don't want to (after doing both daily nearly to excess since March, if not longer). I've never been so relaxed in my life. We'll see how the rest of the month goes, but we're prepping the city house for sale just in case.

:popcorn:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Apex
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 29815
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Drives: Abominable
Location: NJ

:fuckyeah:
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

The Shire goes vertical.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
Apex
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 29815
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Drives: Abominable
Location: NJ

From Bag End to Balls Deep and now to Minas Tirith.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

Lighted gun case could make epic GUN storage. You're in Traverse City now. Which direction is the lake view?
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

Apex wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:27 pm From Bag End to Balls Deep and now to Minas Tirith.
:like:
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Apex wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:27 pm From Bag End to Balls Deep and now to Minas Tirith.
:notbad:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:30 pm Lighted gun case could make epic GUN storage. You're in Traverse City now. Which direction is the lake view?
Image
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:30 pm Lighted gun case could make epic GUN storage. You're in Traverse City now. Which direction is the lake view?
Bay view is to the south. Need to do some major tree thinning, but it'll be very visible from the main level and tree house when complete.

I don't have guns and don't really care to. Guess I may need to reconsider that...but the threats are :notsure: here. I'm literally on top of a hill with nobody in sight in dense forest. IF human threats get to me, the world is toast. And the most threatening wildlife are foxes, which are cute AF and pose no threat to me.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

troyguitar wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:34 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:30 pm Lighted gun case could make epic GUN storage. You're in Traverse City now. Which direction is the lake view?
Image
:lolgasm: :dat: :dat: :dat:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

Detroit wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:36 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:30 pm Lighted gun case could make epic GUN storage. You're in Traverse City now. Which direction is the lake view?
Bay view is to the south. Need to do some major tree thinning, but it'll be very visible from the main level and tree house when complete.

I don't have guns and don't really care to. Guess I may need to reconsider that...but the threats are :notsure: here. I'm literally on top of a hill with nobody in sight in dense forest. IF human threats get to me, the world is toast. And the most threatening wildlife are foxes, which are cute AF and pose no threat to me.
Your neighbors do. Get with the community spirit. Based on your last 3 years of posts I'm going to back this move 110%. So give us the breakdown. How much does your monthly nut change?
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
SAWCE
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 21762
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:26 pm
Drives: Ebombtra
Location: The mountains

Man that’s so sick :jelly:
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

$1500/mo is almost what we pay to rent a shitty apartment in a place we hate. Sounds like you've got life figured out.

Also, for a so-called introvert who hates people, you seem to make good friends quickly everywhere you go... :notsure:
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:42 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:36 pm
Bay view is to the south. Need to do some major tree thinning, but it'll be very visible from the main level and tree house when complete.

I don't have guns and don't really care to. Guess I may need to reconsider that...but the threats are :notsure: here. I'm literally on top of a hill with nobody in sight in dense forest. IF human threats get to me, the world is toast. And the most threatening wildlife are foxes, which are cute AF and pose no threat to me.
Your neighbors do. Get with the community spirit. Based on your last 3 years of posts I'm going to back this move 110%. So give us the breakdown. How much does your monthly nut change?
I'm sure all the neighbors do, which as long as I get along with them is that a problem? :iono:

Monthly change:
House (mortgage, insurance, taxes) $2,700 to $1,500, $1,200 saved
Truck: $590-$120 (insurance and reg), $470 saved
Utilities (water, electric, gas): $500 to ~$100, $400 saved

Just over $2k saved per month vs the city, plus ~$100k in cash left over after house reno and truck pay off to invest somehow (rental properties, market, dunno yet).

With that cost basis, we'll live like kings on my FCA salary, which from people I've talked to at work should be doable until at least the spring. I can extend the job as long as I want by staying with mom (who lives 15 minutes from the office) when I'm forced back. Plan however is to network with people up here and find a gig before that happens. Hagerty is growing like mad and HQ here, it's a natural fit especially when I can accept a lower salary. :tits: already got a job offer to work at a winery down the street if she gets bored, but her focus for the time being is handling all the house transactions should we do this.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

troyguitar wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:45 pm $1500/mo is almost what we pay to rent a shitty apartment in a place we hate. Sounds like you've got life figured out.

Also, for a so-called introvert who hates people, you seem to make good friends quickly everywhere you go... :notsure:
Friends are 100% the wife. She's as extrovert as they come, and I just go along with it. We're fortunate that we're so much alike that we enjoy the same types of people, but if I didn't have her, I'd be completely :foreveralone:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

:fuckyeah: to all of this. Friends of ours just visited Traverse City and really enjoyed it.

My wife and I basically every other year have been taking trips to southwest Michigan, our most recent was to Saugatuck a few weeks ago. Doesn’t matter where we’ve been, we LOVE the smaller towns on the west coast of Michigan.

We both went to Butler and a lot of our friends from college are here in the Indianapolis area, so that’d be tough to leave, but a major part of me wants to “retire” to a small town up there to raise the fam. I’m full time remote, and my wife has been fully remote since COVID hit, but she’s not sure her company would be cool with that permanently. Thinking not. But the fantasy involves a wooded ~1 acre lot close to the water, building the homestead and garage-mahal and living out our days just outside Saugatuck.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

Detroit wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:00 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:42 pm

Your neighbors do. Get with the community spirit. Based on your last 3 years of posts I'm going to back this move 110%. So give us the breakdown. How much does your monthly nut change?
I'm sure all the neighbors do, which as long as I get along with them is that a problem? :iono:

Monthly change:
House (mortgage, insurance, taxes) $2,700 to $1,500, $1,200 saved
Truck: $590-$120 (insurance and reg), $470 saved
Utilities (water, electric, gas): $500 to ~$100, $400 saved

Just over $2k saved per month vs the city, plus ~$100k in cash left over after house reno and truck pay off to invest somehow (rental properties, market, dunno yet).

With that cost basis, we'll live like kings on my FCA salary, which from people I've talked to at work should be doable until at least the spring. I can extend the job as long as I want by staying with mom (who lives 15 minutes from the office) when I'm forced back. Plan however is to network with people up here and find a gig before that happens. Hagerty is growing like mad and HQ here, it's a natural fit especially when I can accept a lower salary. :tits: already got a job offer to work at a winery down the street if she gets bored, but her focus for the time being is handling all the house transactions should we do this.
All of this seems pretty fucking heroic to me.......I'm in!
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

How's the wine in Traverse City Michigan?
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

coogles wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:05 pm :fuckyeah: to all of this. Friends of ours just visited Traverse City and really enjoyed it.

My wife and I basically every other year have been taking trips to southwest Michigan, our most recent was to Saugatuck a few weeks ago. Doesn’t matter where we’ve been, we LOVE the smaller towns on the west coast of Michigan.

We both went to Butler and a lot of our friends from college are here in the Indianapolis area, so that’d be tough to leave, but a major part of me wants to “retire” to a small town up there to raise the fam. I’m full time remote, and my wife has been fully remote since COVID hit, but she’s not sure her company would be cool with that permanently. Thinking not. But the fantasy involves a wooded ~1 acre lot close to the water, building the homestead and garage-mahal and living out our days just outside Saugatuck.
Everything along lake Michigan in Michigan from Saugatuck to Harbor Springs is epic and special IMO. Traverse City is our favorite because it has absolutely everything, but anything near Lake MI is awesome.

Your fantasy is similar to ours, and we might have found it. :excited: at the possibility.

BUT I think it would be tough to raise kids here :doe: People here just aren't as...sharp which isn't a good sign for the quality of schools, plus the taxes are cheap for a reason. It's a really slow pace of life, and I think kids could get bored fast...and there don't seem to be a ton of full time resident families here...mostly DINKS like us who want to just live an easy life. There's also zero diversity, and that seems to be cherished among those here. All things I personally don't hate :triggered: but I dunno about raising kids in this environment.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:08 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:00 pm
I'm sure all the neighbors do, which as long as I get along with them is that a problem? :iono:

Monthly change:
House (mortgage, insurance, taxes) $2,700 to $1,500, $1,200 saved
Truck: $590-$120 (insurance and reg), $470 saved
Utilities (water, electric, gas): $500 to ~$100, $400 saved

Just over $2k saved per month vs the city, plus ~$100k in cash left over after house reno and truck pay off to invest somehow (rental properties, market, dunno yet).

With that cost basis, we'll live like kings on my FCA salary, which from people I've talked to at work should be doable until at least the spring. I can extend the job as long as I want by staying with mom (who lives 15 minutes from the office) when I'm forced back. Plan however is to network with people up here and find a gig before that happens. Hagerty is growing like mad and HQ here, it's a natural fit especially when I can accept a lower salary. :tits: already got a job offer to work at a winery down the street if she gets bored, but her focus for the time being is handling all the house transactions should we do this.
All of this seems pretty fucking heroic to me.......I'm in!
I'm just about out of reasons to not do it.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:13 pm How's the wine in Traverse City Michigan?
The best in the state...which isn't saying a lot, but the right wines would really surprise you.

No big reds like California, but Cab Franc grows really well here, and there's a winery "2 Lads" at the end of the peninsula we're on that makes the best. I've also had surprisingly :notbad: Pinot Noir up here, any of the more light and delicate reds are really decent.

I'm a big fan of California reds, so for MI wine, I really prefer whites. Viognier, DRY Reisling, Cab Franc Rose :gaydance:

But really, it's the beer here that's insane. There's breweries absolutely everywhere, and not a single one is bad. I don't drink much beer anymore (my system hates it for some reason), but there's been an increase in distilling that's had some :impressive: results. Traverse City Whiskey co makes a ridiculously good cherry whisky that dominates in an old fashioned.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

Detroit wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:18 pm Everything along lake Michigan in Michigan from Saugatuck to Harbor Springs is epic and special IMO. Traverse City is our favorite because it has absolutely everything, but anything near Lake MI is awesome.

Your fantasy is similar to ours, and we might have found it. :excited: at the possibility.

BUT I think it would be tough to raise kids here :doe: People here just aren't as...sharp which isn't a good sign for the quality of schools, plus the taxes are cheap for a reason. It's a really slow pace of life, and I think kids could get bored fast...and there don't seem to be a ton of full time resident families here...mostly DINKS like us who want to just live an easy life. There's also zero diversity, and that seems to be cherished among those here. All things I personally don't hate :triggered: but I dunno about raising kids in this environment.
:jelly: at the opportunity.

I’m in the camp that where we are now is just about the best place for really little kids, but pretty terrible for middle and high school age kids. Elementary aged kids don’t do much other than go in someone’s backyard or the park to play. We have that to spare out here in the burbs. But when kids get older and want to be out on their own, there isn’t a damn thing to do out here. Too far from urban places to walk around and just hang out, and too far from nature to get outside and explore.

Small town life gets you both. A cool urban space with restaurants and shops and bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries etc., but there’s also the beach and hiking and cycling and parks and on and on. Saugatuck schools also seem to be pretty damn good, surprisingly.

Good luck with the decision/move!
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28784
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

Damn man, that is a really cool fucking house, I love that. I would be really happy with it just cleaned up a bit, maybe some paint and landscaping. I am not really one to need :fancy: fixtures and shit though. Either way, very :neat: property. I definitely enjoy the idea of living below means and not being a slave to high stress jobs for not really much beneshit.

Also, your utilities are fucking $500/month? :wtf:

I actually have always enjoyed Detroit when I've visited for work, but for a place considered undesirable by most of the US, it seems really expensive. You guys do have an extremely nice house though, it's like 3X+ the size of mine, so I guess that driving up the costs can't be avoided.

All-in-all I think you are onto something here.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

coogles wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:37 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:18 pm Everything along lake Michigan in Michigan from Saugatuck to Harbor Springs is epic and special IMO. Traverse City is our favorite because it has absolutely everything, but anything near Lake MI is awesome.

Your fantasy is similar to ours, and we might have found it. :excited: at the possibility.

BUT I think it would be tough to raise kids here :doe: People here just aren't as...sharp which isn't a good sign for the quality of schools, plus the taxes are cheap for a reason. It's a really slow pace of life, and I think kids could get bored fast...and there don't seem to be a ton of full time resident families here...mostly DINKS like us who want to just live an easy life. There's also zero diversity, and that seems to be cherished among those here. All things I personally don't hate :triggered: but I dunno about raising kids in this environment.
:jelly: at the opportunity.

I’m in the camp that where we are now is just about the best place for really little kids, but pretty terrible for middle and high school age kids. Elementary aged kids don’t do much other than go in someone’s backyard or the park to play. We have that to spare out here in the burbs. But when kids get older and want to be out on their own, there isn’t a damn thing to do out here. Too far from urban places to walk around and just hang out, and too far from nature to get outside and explore.

Small town life gets you both. A cool urban space with restaurants and shops and bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries etc., but there’s also the beach and hiking and cycling and parks and on and on. Saugatuck schools also seem to be pretty damn good, surprisingly.

Good luck with the decision/move!
Interesting! Saugutuck would be 5/7! I do love the smaller town life.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

Detroit wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:28 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:13 pm How's the wine in Traverse City Michigan?
The best in the state...which isn't saying a lot, but the right wines would really surprise you.

No big reds like California, but Cab Franc grows really well here, and there's a winery "2 Lads" at the end of the peninsula we're on that makes the best. I've also had surprisingly :notbad: Pinot Noir up here, any of the more light and delicate reds are really decent.

I'm a big fan of California reds, so for MI wine, I really prefer whites. Viognier, DRY Reisling, Cab Franc Rose :gaydance:

But really, it's the beer here that's insane. There's breweries absolutely everywhere, and not a single one is bad. I don't drink much beer anymore (my system hates it for some reason), but there's been an increase in distilling that's had some :impressive: results. Traverse City Whiskey co makes a ridiculously good cherry whisky that dominates in an old fashioned.
My favorite grape.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
Post Reply