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Tarspin wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:35 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:27 pm

FE is shit in this entire category. Nothing is significantly better or worse than anything else. 17-21MPG is basically the best anyone can expect. So I am essentially excluding it from this conversation, as it won't sway the buying decision. We're at $5.20 a gallon now and it is what it is. I am expecting it to be up to $7 a gallon soon enough.

I did think about the bronco. But I don't think it is available... Also the interior quality is not up to snuff. And the true curve ball is the woman's HATE for the bronco nameplate.
Roger that... It makes sense that the Bronco idea be put to rest then. I personally really like the Bronco, and I think it'll have a good run in the segment. I saw one at the kid's school and was impressed with it's presence. The hard panel sectional roof looks dece, as does the general fit and finish. The styling is 5/7, :woodplow: if I were looking for an unreliable gas guzzling fun thing.

Owning a shared vehicle that the :tits: dislikes is a recipe for premature :plac: , it's great if you find something that you both like. In her case it needs to have a more prestigious brand presence - probably something imported = expensive. *cough* MB G class *cough*
G Wagen was discussed. But the defender IMO has a similar presence at 1/2 the cost.

Personally I would get a :manuel: 2 door bronco with vinyl seats for 38. Does everything you’d want.
But it unfortunately removes many of the great defender attributes like nice interior quality + amazing ride quality and ride.
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max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:41 pm
Tarspin wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:35 pm

Roger that... It makes sense that the Bronco idea be put to rest then. I personally really like the Bronco, and I think it'll have a good run in the segment. I saw one at the kid's school and was impressed with it's presence. The hard panel sectional roof looks dece, as does the general fit and finish. The styling is 5/7, :woodplow: if I were looking for an unreliable gas guzzling fun thing.

Owning a shared vehicle that the :tits: dislikes is a recipe for premature :plac: , it's great if you find something that you both like. In her case it needs to have a more prestigious brand presence - probably something imported = expensive. *cough* MB G class *cough*
G Wagen was discussed. But the defender IMO has a similar presence at 1/2 the cost.

Personally I would get a :manuel: 2 door bronco with vinyl seats for 38. Does everything you’d want.
But it unfortunately removes many of the great defender attributes like nice interior quality + amazing ride quality and ride.
Is the ride quality on the Bronco Jeep-ish? They come with a pretty :nice: off-road stance, so I assume that's part of the "experience".

So will you :doit: ? What else scratches the itch?
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Tarspin wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:19 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:41 pm
G Wagen was discussed. But the defender IMO has a similar presence at 1/2 the cost.

Personally I would get a :manuel: 2 door bronco with vinyl seats for 38. Does everything you’d want.
But it unfortunately removes many of the great defender attributes like nice interior quality + amazing ride quality and ride.
Is the ride quality on the Bronco Jeep-ish? They come with a pretty :nice: off-road stance, so I assume that's part of the "experience".

So will you :doit: ? What else scratches the itch?
I am :notsure: interestingly enough the woman found a :dillerman: with no markup and no downpayment… dude is named Stuart :mindblown:

I have not driven a bronco, but I doubt it’ll be anywhere near defender since it’s not unibody… + has a removable top. But based on what the reviews are saying it’ll be somewhere between the two.

What’s prompting the move ? We have an older tsx (2010) and my mini. At the moment, both don’t really fit our lifestyles. Total :troywax: move. We don’t need anything new just wanted to treat ourselves to something :nice: and be a little less :scrooge:
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max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:30 pm
Tarspin wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:19 pm

Is the ride quality on the Bronco Jeep-ish? They come with a pretty :nice: off-road stance, so I assume that's part of the "experience".

So will you :doit: ? What else scratches the itch?
I am :notsure: interestingly enough the woman found a :dillerman: with no markup and no downpayment… dude is named Stuart :mindblown:

I have not driven a bronco, but I doubt it’ll be anywhere near defender since it’s not unibody… + has a removable top. But based on what the reviews are saying it’ll be somewhere between the two.

What’s prompting the move ? We have an older tsx (2010) and my mini. At the moment, both don’t really fit our lifestyles. Total :troywax: move. We don’t need anything new just wanted to treat ourselves to something :nice: and be a little less :scrooge:
So many compromises :doe: , I still think the base model Defender is a good buy.
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Tarspin wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:19 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:41 pm
G Wagen was discussed. But the defender IMO has a similar presence at 1/2 the cost.

Personally I would get a :manuel: 2 door bronco with vinyl seats for 38. Does everything you’d want.
But it unfortunately removes many of the great defender attributes like nice interior quality + amazing ride quality and ride.
Is the ride quality on the Bronco Jeep-ish? They come with a pretty :nice: off-road stance, so I assume that's part of the "experience".

So will you :doit: ? What else scratches the itch?
The Jeep ride quality is great, the handling on the highway is what is shit. I think Bronco would be quite a bit better and Defender even better than that.

:iono: :doe: I think a Bronco would actually be more money in the current market, from what I hear they are easily marked up five figures. I would personally choose a Defender at that point I think.
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D Griff wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:06 pm
Tarspin wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:19 pm

Is the ride quality on the Bronco Jeep-ish? They come with a pretty :nice: off-road stance, so I assume that's part of the "experience".

So will you :doit: ? What else scratches the itch?
The Jeep ride quality is great, the handling on the highway is what is shit. I think Bronco would be quite a bit better and Defender even better than that.

:iono: :doe: I think a Bronco would actually be more money in the current market, from what I hear they are easily marked up five figures. I would personally choose a Defender at that point I think.
I can order a Bronco at sticker … the question is when would it get here… as i think they are sold out through 2022.
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max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:21 pm
D Griff wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:06 pm

The Jeep ride quality is great, the handling on the highway is what is shit. I think Bronco would be quite a bit better and Defender even better than that.

:iono: :doe: I think a Bronco would actually be more money in the current market, from what I hear they are easily marked up five figures. I would personally choose a Defender at that point I think.
I can order a Bronco at sticker … the question is when would it get here… as i think they are sold out through 2022.
My buddy has one ordered and test drove an outer banks today. He's not very excited anymore after driving a rubi JL 2.0 right after.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:59 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:21 pm
I can order a Bronco at sticker … the question is when would it get here… as i think they are sold out through 2022.
My buddy has one ordered and test drove an outer banks today. He's not very excited anymore after driving a rubi JL 2.0 right after.
:wat: what’s the issue with the bronco. ? That 2.3 is excellent. And apparently the power move is to buy a “rubi while you wait for the bronco” according to the forum Bros.
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max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:09 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:59 pm

My buddy has one ordered and test drove an outer banks today. He's not very excited anymore after driving a rubi JL 2.0 right after.
:wat: what’s the issue with the bronco. ? That 2.3 is excellent. And apparently the power move is to buy a “rubi while you wait for the bronco” according to the forum Bros.
I think the expectations are so high on the bronco that it didn't meet them, meanwhile everyone says the jeep drives like trash when it really isn't that bad. Let me go back and look for what he said.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:11 pm
max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:09 pm

:wat: what’s the issue with the bronco. ? That 2.3 is excellent. And apparently the power move is to buy a “rubi while you wait for the bronco” according to the forum Bros.
I think the expectations are so high on the bronco that it didn't meet them, meanwhile everyone says the jeep drives like trash when it really isn't that bad. Let me go back and look for what he said.
Eh. It really depends on what everyone is looking for. Jeep is ok. So is bronco. I can’t say I would be “sad” or disappointed in either. They each have their own ups and downs.

Interesting to hear the take :doe:
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Cliffs: wind noise was terrible with the HT (could have been misaligned) power was ok, really floaty at highway speeds ( minivan tires and two door box ), interior feels cheaper/not as well put together as the Jeep. I think alot of his complaints are from the 2 door and road spec, versus the JLU Rubi with bigger swap bars, wider track etc. He has a manual big bend (I think) soft top on order. I think his comparison isn't great since it's not apples to apples, but since you've already decided you'd rather have a Disco over a JL, I don't think the Bronco will do it for you.
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CaleDeRoo wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:16 pm Cliffs: wind noise was terrible with the HT (could have been misaligned) power was ok, really floaty at highway speeds ( minivan tires and two door box ), interior feels cheaper/not as well put together as the Jeep. I think alot of his complaints are from the 2 door and road spec, versus the JLU Rubi with bigger swap bars, wider track etc. He has a manual big bend (I think) soft top on order. I think his comparison isn't great since it's not apples to apples, but since you've already decided you'd rather have a Disco over a JL, I don't think the Bronco will do it for you.
Well I think this hits the spot … minus the minivan tire comment. They actually make the ride/noise better not worse. Especially compared to a Rubicon.

Wow he is going all out on the “off road” spec… I wouldn’t rock a soft top in either. But I value on road manners far more than off road.

Wind noise in defender compared to jeep is not even in the same realm. Not sure about bronco but I heard complaints on the hard top wind noise above 65mph beginning to show up and get kinda bad. So your friend is likely :notwrong:

I think the issue is just expectations … can’t have an off roady vehicle that’s super nice on road and off. Compromises have to be made
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Yeah I mean Max if you can afford it (and you can) and y’all want it then I say go for it. Defender would actually be a really good pick for what you want to do I think. They’re unique, have presence, drive great, and have all the off road capability you’d need for rando trips.

The only thing that is not ideal is how poor on gas they are. But similar to a Rubicon wrangler I guess without the drawbacks of poor highway manners and ear splitting wind noise.
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max225 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:25 pm
CaleDeRoo wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:16 pm Cliffs: wind noise was terrible with the HT (could have been misaligned) power was ok, really floaty at highway speeds ( minivan tires and two door box ), interior feels cheaper/not as well put together as the Jeep. I think alot of his complaints are from the 2 door and road spec, versus the JLU Rubi with bigger swap bars, wider track etc. He has a manual big bend (I think) soft top on order. I think his comparison isn't great since it's not apples to apples, but since you've already decided you'd rather have a Disco over a JL, I don't think the Bronco will do it for you.
Well I think this hits the spot … minus the minivan tire comment. They actually make the ride/noise better not worse. Especially compared to a Rubicon.

Wow he is going all out on the “off road” spec… I wouldn’t rock a soft top in either. But I value on road manners far more than off road.

Wind noise in defender compared to jeep is not even in the same realm. Not sure about bronco but I heard complaints on the hard top wind noise above 65mph beginning to show up and get kinda bad. So your friend is likely :notwrong:

I think the issue is just expectations … can’t have an off roady vehicle that’s super nice on road and off. Compromises have to be made
The bronco won't be his only car. It's mainly to have fun taking the kids to his family's cabin not far from where they live and occasionally drive it to work if he feels like it. It'll be interesting to see if he goes through with buying it once it comes in.
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Johnny_P wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:16 pm Yeah I mean Max if you can afford it (and you can) and y’all want it then I say go for it. Defender would actually be a really good pick for what you want to do I think. They’re unique, have presence, drive great, and have all the off road capability you’d need for rando trips.

The only thing that is not ideal is how poor on gas they are. But similar to a Rubicon wrangler I guess without the drawbacks of poor highway manners and ear splitting wind noise.
The self-loathing that will ensue when the thing tanks in value in a few years will probably ruin the ownershit experience. Dem beans don't count themselves...
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:43 am
Johnny_P wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:16 pm Yeah I mean Max if you can afford it (and you can) and y’all want it then I say go for it. Defender would actually be a really good pick for what you want to do I think. They’re unique, have presence, drive great, and have all the off road capability you’d need for rando trips.

The only thing that is not ideal is how poor on gas they are. But similar to a Rubicon wrangler I guess without the drawbacks of poor highway manners and ear splitting wind noise.
The self-loathing that will ensue when the thing tanks in value in a few years will probably ruin the ownershit experience. Dem beans don't count themselves...
I’m not retarded in that regard. I’m fully aware of it which is why I’m bringing up the lighting of 30/40k dollars on fire over the next 2 years and it’s making me hesitate a bit. I’m just trying to figure out if that sort of waste is worth it to me.

Clearly we can ride the current vehicles into our retirement. And continue to be :scrooge: their combined value is like 23k even in today’s crazy market.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:43 am
Johnny_P wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:16 pm Yeah I mean Max if you can afford it (and you can) and y’all want it then I say go for it. Defender would actually be a really good pick for what you want to do I think. They’re unique, have presence, drive great, and have all the off road capability you’d need for rando trips.

The only thing that is not ideal is how poor on gas they are. But similar to a Rubicon wrangler I guess without the drawbacks of poor highway manners and ear splitting wind noise.
The self-loathing that will ensue when the thing tanks in value in a few years will probably ruin the ownershit experience. Dem beans don't count themselves...
Eh just budget for it? The mini tanked and he still likes it.
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Johnny_P wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:19 am
Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:43 am
The self-loathing that will ensue when the thing tanks in value in a few years will probably ruin the ownershit experience. Dem beans don't count themselves...
Eh just budget for it? The mini tanked and he still likes it.
:dat: mini tanking in value is “planned” in a way. I’m not crying myself to sleep every night. I see it as a disposable toy and not an asset. It just turns a bit more complicated when the purchase price is 70-80k after tax.
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max225 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 am
Johnny_P wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:19 am

Eh just budget for it? The mini tanked and he still likes it.
:dat: mini tanking in value is “planned” in a way. I’m not crying myself to sleep every night. I see it as a disposable toy and not an asset. It just turns a bit more complicated when the purchase price is 70-80k after tax.
Yea, you have to be OK with lighting $20-40k on fire in a few years for a vehicle purchase. Which is fine if you can commit to the thing long term or :aintcare: the money fire.

I can't, so I'm just prioritizing high residual vehicles from now on. It's easier now that I'm an OEM free agent. We'll probably have Toyotas and Subarus from here on out. :triggered: :howdareu:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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this looks and sounds terrible to me. Some ppl :yikes:
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For shits and giggles I built out a comparable Bronco... Comes in at 53710 vs 63800 for a Defender... that seems like a no brainer to go for a Defender. Spec for spec. However... the uncharge for the bigger engine on the bronco is far superior at only $1900.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:53 am
max225 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 am

:dat: mini tanking in value is “planned” in a way. I’m not crying myself to sleep every night. I see it as a disposable toy and not an asset. It just turns a bit more complicated when the purchase price is 70-80k after tax.
Yea, you have to be OK with lighting $20-40k on fire in a few years for a vehicle purchase. Which is fine if you can commit to the thing long term or :aintcare: the money fire.

I can't, so I'm just prioritizing high residual vehicles from now on. It's easier now that I'm an OEM free agent. We'll probably have Toyotas and Subarus from here on out. :triggered: :howdareu:
Yeah but this isn't a covid blip with LR. It's just the way it goes. Nobody wants one out of warranty and residuals have been showing that for years.
I'd do it. It's a cool vehicle and likely a hell of a lot better to actually live with than the Fraud or Wrongler. Max and his lady have been cucking it out long enough with the fancy Civic. Time to reap the bennies of scrooging for 8 years and get what you want.
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Johnny_P wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:31 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:53 am
Yea, you have to be OK with lighting $20-40k on fire in a few years for a vehicle purchase. Which is fine if you can commit to the thing long term or :aintcare: the money fire.

I can't, so I'm just prioritizing high residual vehicles from now on. It's easier now that I'm an OEM free agent. We'll probably have Toyotas and Subarus from here on out. :triggered: :howdareu:
Yeah but this isn't a covid blip with LR. It's just the way it goes. Nobody wants one out of warranty and residuals have been showing that for years.
I'd do it. It's a cool vehicle and likely a hell of a lot better to actually live with than the Fraud or Wrongler. Max and his lady have been cucking it out long enough with the fancy Civic. Time to reap the bennies of scrooging for 8 years and get what you want.
I couldn't trust the lack of reliability, especially for something that's going to go on trips and whatnot. I'd rather drive something with an "ancient" drivetrain that's bulletproof than some rube goldberg powertrain designed by people that have never been able to handle electrical complexity well. You're right, it's just how LR has always been. Great looking and feeling vehicles, terrible reliability and resale.

It all comes down to priorities.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:57 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:31 pm

Yeah but this isn't a covid blip with LR. It's just the way it goes. Nobody wants one out of warranty and residuals have been showing that for years.
I'd do it. It's a cool vehicle and likely a hell of a lot better to actually live with than the Fraud or Wrongler. Max and his lady have been cucking it out long enough with the fancy Civic. Time to reap the bennies of scrooging for 8 years and get what you want.
I couldn't trust the lack of reliability, especially for something that's going to go on trips and whatnot. I'd rather drive something with an "ancient" drivetrain that's bulletproof than some rube goldberg powertrain designed by people that have never been able to handle electrical complexity well. You're right, it's just how LR has always been. Great looking and feeling vehicles, terrible reliability and resale.

It all comes down to priorities.
Vehicle in question is under warranty + comes with trip reimbursement etc. So sure, it could have some insane failure on a mountain in TimBuk2 but that isn't very likely. I am not worried about in warranty reliability one bit.
Outside of warranty is probably going to be $10 a gallon gas and $500 an hr labor rates. Perhaps car ownership will be a thing of the past at that point. :lol: a base defender is no more complicated than Wrangler.. There really isn't THAT much tech in it. Which is kind of nuts.

There is a bit of a peace of mind when it comes to something reliable, but it also comes with a boring aspect as well. Been there done that. Every single vehicle has trade offs, just gotta pick what works for you.
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max225 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:59 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:57 pm
I couldn't trust the lack of reliability, especially for something that's going to go on trips and whatnot. I'd rather drive something with an "ancient" drivetrain that's bulletproof than some rube goldberg powertrain designed by people that have never been able to handle electrical complexity well. You're right, it's just how LR has always been. Great looking and feeling vehicles, terrible reliability and resale.

It all comes down to priorities.
Vehicle in question is under warranty + comes with trip reimbursement etc. So sure, it could have some insane failure on a mountain in TimBuk2 but that isn't very likely. I am not worried about in warranty reliability one bit.
Outside of warranty is probably going to be $10 a gallon gas and $500 an hr labor rates. Perhaps car ownership will be a thing of the past at that point. :lol: a base defender is no more complicated than Wrangler.. There really isn't THAT much tech in it. Which is kind of nuts.

There is a bit of a peace of mind when it comes to something reliable, but it also comes with a boring aspect as well. Been there done that. Every single vehicle has trade offs, just gotta pick what works for you.
Just make sure to book the flight to Tahiti for your SA when you buy the thing so you're guaranteed great service.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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