DFD

Gonna be a lot of cheerios and apple juice stains in a sub $10k caravan.

They're fine though. Not bad for towing despite FWD. Our trucks handled heavier loads better but the interior arrangement of the minivans can't be beat.

[user not found] wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:51 am

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:57 am Gonna be a lot of cheerios and apple juice stains in a sub $10k caravan.

They're fine though. Not bad for towing despite FWD. Our trucks handled heavier loads better but the interior arrangement of the minivans can't be beat.

Nah, just gotta buy one that was owned by a kinda guy and went back and forth to Florida.

No cheerios and comfy leather seats. Hope you like beige, doe.

Gold outside. Beige inside. Throw on the aviators and NFG ride the couch.

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:21 am

[user not found] wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:51 am

Nah, just gotta buy one that was owned by a kinda guy and went back and forth to Florida.

No cheerios and comfy leather seats. Hope you like beige, doe.

Gold outside. Beige inside. Throw on the aviators and NFG ride the couch.

Do it in style!

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:30 pm

This is amazing.

[user not found] wrote:

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:57 am Gonna be a lot of cheerios and apple juice stains in a sub $10k caravan.

They're fine though. Not bad for towing despite FWD. Our trucks handled heavier loads better but the interior arrangement of the minivans can't be beat.

Nah, just gotta buy one that was owned by a kinda guy and went back and forth to Florida.

No cheerios and comfy leather seats. Hope you like beige, doe.

It's nuts how cheap these things can be found, no need to deal with cheerios at all.

It's looking like I'd start with a 493/494cc 2-stroke powered car, 75" wheelbase, 55" wide and around 96" long nose to tail, 650 lbs empty. On a light 5x8 aluminum trailer it could easily be 1200 lbs or less with some tools/spares. That's within range to tow with pretty much anything. 2010 JSW 2.0T+DSG perhaps... or even a 2017 GTI Sport in a couple years when they're $12-15k. That could function as tow vehicle and entertaining DD all in one, leaving room for a fun project car later. would certainly be better as a camper and use fewer water pumps.

dubshow wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:50 pm I have an equal desire for a 2004-2008 Lexus GX 470. It would be a GREAT jeep replacement. And I would have no car payment.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... ode1=GX470

https://jackson.craigslist.org/cto/d/20 ... 13779.html

They can be had for $6k-12k with under 150k miles. Should last to 250k. There is a decent aftermarket support. Gets 14/18mpg. Can tow more than

Some models have a BITCHIN fold up 3rd row seat.

very popular cars in central/south america, and turkey/middle east. But called Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, I've seen a decent amount of 2005ish models on the road and doesn't sound tired by any means.

Johnny_P wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:30 pm

and yet has a 370Z plate frame. Might as well remove that.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-te ... ine-2018-4

Tesla trying to get it right.....


Tesla Idling Model 3 Shows Musk Unable to Make On-the-Fly Fixes


CEO has acknowledged using too many robots at assembly plant
Downtime will improve automation, ease bottlenecks, Tesla says

Davestr wrote:http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-te ... ine-2018-4

Tesla trying to get it right.....


Tesla Idling Model 3 Shows Musk Unable to Make On-the-Fly Fixes


CEO has acknowledged using too many robots at assembly plant
Downtime will improve automation, ease bottlenecks, Tesla says

It is a lot harder to mount a wheel then it is to mount a windshield because the lugs rotate infinitely. Most car manufacturers know this so thry weigh out the pros and cons of vision systems vs human assisted operation. Building a car from scratch is not simple business. These aren't cell phones!

Tarspin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:11 am

Davestr wrote:http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-te ... ine-2018-4

Tesla trying to get it right.....


Tesla Idling Model 3 Shows Musk Unable to Make On-the-Fly Fixes


CEO has acknowledged using too many robots at assembly plant
Downtime will improve automation, ease bottlenecks, Tesla says

It is a lot harder to mount a wheel then it is to mount a windshield because the lugs rotate infinitely. Most car manufacturers know this so thry weigh out the pros and cons of vision systems vs human assisted operation. Building a car from scratch is not simple business. These aren't cell phones!

And this is where Tesla failed. By undermining the "ancient" industry, they assumed that established companies were stuck in the stone ages and didn't know how to truly innovate in manufacturing. Which couldn't have been more wrong. Plants are continually optimized with retool, and if there's truly a better way to do something, it's implemented.

Tesla's insistence on breaking the industry might have been its downfall. Which is OK. The leagues it's pushed in EV tech and general acceptance has been huge.

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:18 am

Tarspin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:11 am It is a lot harder to mount a wheel then it is to mount a windshield because the lugs rotate infinitely. Most car manufacturers know this so thry weigh out the pros and cons of vision systems vs human assisted operation. Building a car from scratch is not simple business. These aren't cell phones!

And this is where Tesla failed. By undermining the "ancient" industry, they assumed that established companies were stuck in the stone ages and didn't know how to truly innovate in manufacturing. Which couldn't have been more wrong. Plants are continually optimized with retool, and if there's truly a better way to do something, it's implemented.

Tesla's insistence on breaking the industry might have been its downfall. Which is OK. The leagues it's pushed in EV tech and general acceptance has been huge.

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:18 am

Tarspin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:11 am It is a lot harder to mount a wheel then it is to mount a windshield because the lugs rotate infinitely. Most car manufacturers know this so thry weigh out the pros and cons of vision systems vs human assisted operation. Building a car from scratch is not simple business. These aren't cell phones!

And this is where Tesla failed. By undermining the "ancient" industry, they assumed that established companies were stuck in the stone ages and didn't know how to truly innovate in manufacturing. Which couldn't have been more wrong. Plants are continually optimized with retool, and if there's truly a better way to do something, it's implemented.

Tesla's insistence on breaking the industry might have been its downfall. Which is OK. The leagues it's pushed in EV tech and general acceptance has been huge.

What do you do? If you don't mind me asking. I understand if you do.

KYGTIGuy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:51 am

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:18 am
And this is where Tesla failed. By undermining the "ancient" industry, they assumed that established companies were stuck in the stone ages and didn't know how to truly innovate in manufacturing. Which couldn't have been more wrong. Plants are continually optimized with retool, and if there's truly a better way to do something, it's implemented.

Tesla's insistence on breaking the industry might have been its downfall. Which is OK. The leagues it's pushed in EV tech and general acceptance has been huge.

What do you do? If you don't mind me asking. I understand if you do.

Won't give specifics, but I've worked in the auto industry my entire career. Currently, I work for GM in brand marketing, but I've done stints in product marketing, market analysis, advertising, media, and market research.

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:54 am

KYGTIGuy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:51 am

What do you do? If you don't mind me asking. I understand if you do.

Won't give specifics, but I've worked in the auto industry my entire career. Currently, I work for GM in brand marketing, but I've done stints in product marketing, market analysis, advertising, media, and market research.

Thanks. You have really interesting insights. Much appreciated

KYGTIGuy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:56 am

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:54 am
Won't give specifics, but I've worked in the auto industry my entire career. Currently, I work for GM in brand marketing, but I've done stints in product marketing, market analysis, advertising, media, and market research.

Thanks. You have really interesting insights. Much appreciated

Just keep in mind, everything I say is just like everything else on this forum.

Detroit wrote:

KYGTIGuy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:56 am Thanks. You have really interesting insights. Much appreciated

Just keep in mind, everything I say is just like everything else on this forum.

Plus moran engineers designing equipment from thr Flinstone era.

Tarspin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:38 am

Detroit wrote: Just keep in mind, everything I say is just like everything else on this forum.

Plus moran engineers designing equipment from thr Flinstone era.

Totally. I travel back in time every day when I go to work. The stairs are the backs of brontosaurus's. True story.

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:39 am

Tarspin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:38 am Plus moran engineers designing equipment from thr Flinstone era.

Totally. I travel back in time every day when I go to work. The stairs are the backs of brontosaurus's. True story.

Perception is such a weird thing... everyone really does think this...

And yet GM makes some of the most reliable vehicles, most powerful and robust engines, best chassis that exist at any price point in the industry. I really don't get it. The Z06 is quicker around tracks than many things that cost 2X (or more) the price. LS motors run forever and even get decent fuel economy and are pretty light.

It's that people think things like Teslas are better cars/purchases.

I've reflected on my experience driving a P90D quite a bit and I have come around some to really thinking it is an amazing vehicle/piece of tech, but the truth is, it's barely even a car in the traditional sense, so I wouldn't really enjoy owning one. Also, I speculate that many more 2018 Bolts and Prii will be roaming the streets in 2030 than 2018 Model 3s.

Supra = not for POAD's --- https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota-su ... 1825317746

D Griff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:25 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:39 am
Totally. I travel back in time every day when I go to work. The stairs are the backs of brontosaurus's. True story.

Perception is such a weird thing... everyone really does think this...

And yet GM makes some of the most reliable vehicles, most powerful and robust engines, best chassis that exist at any price point in the industry. I really don't get it. The Z06 is quicker around tracks than many things that cost 2X (or more) the price. LS motors run forever and even get decent fuel economy and are pretty light.

It's that people think things like Teslas are better cars/purchases.

I've reflected on my experience driving a P90D quite a bit and I have come around some to really thinking it is an amazing vehicle/piece of tech, but the truth is, it's barely even a car in the traditional sense, so I wouldn't really enjoy owning one. Also, I speculate that many more 2018 Bolts and Prii will be roaming the streets in 2030 than 2018 Model 3s.

Musk has managed to sell the idea that the auto industry in total is ancient. And it seemed to resonate really well with early adopters which trickled down to the masses. He's actually a marketing genius, selling ideas, concepts, and vaporware through brands that have amassed incredible equity without any traditional marketing.

He also loves to hide facts and deny reporting, just like our favorite head cheeto Part of how the cheeto got elected is how Tesla and Musk are so popular. Middle finger to the status quo, "realness", etc.

The problem is, what he's selling is often times lies. The auto industry has made tremendous strides in reliability and durability. By and large, no bad cars are produced anymore. Every OEM runs into issues (moving vehicles are incredibly complex to engineer and build), but the response to said problems is what sets apart the good from the bad. Tesla hides behind a veil of ambiguous reporting and exploiting loopholes to look better than it is. Look at all the build issues with the Model 3. Model S's and X's seem to have chronic problems rooted in component engineering. I know a number of people with Tesla's who claim they're the worst cars they've owned. But they love them because of the "vision" or whatever.

The Tesla brand has done incredible things for moving EV's and autonomous driving toward the mainstream. Maybe that's all it was good for. If it makes it through the Model 3 launch and survives the next 5 years (I've maintained that it's warranty costs, not production that will get it), perhaps it'll make it the long term. I'll remain

Davestr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:14 pm Supra = not for POAD's --- https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota-su ... 1825317746

Not even remotely surprised.

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:29 pm

Davestr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:14 pm Supra = not for POAD's --- https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota-su ... 1825317746

Not even remotely surprised.

+1 and I wonder if the timing is going to be quite bad for its debut. An initial buzz that ends when Cross-Over tidal wave continues to abuse car sale of all types.

Davestr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:31 pm

Detroit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:29 pm
Not even remotely surprised.

+1 and I wonder if the timing is going to be quite bad for its debut. An initial buzz that ends when Cross-Over tidal wave continues to abuse car sale of all types.

The problem is that it's taken forever for this thing to come out. People will be tired of it before it even arrives.

If their volume targets are realistic, they'll do OK. Sports car sales have remained mostly strong despite compact, mid, and large cars falling off a cliff.

Have you guys seen the Rich Rebuilds channel on YouTube?

Guy buys salvaged Tesla's and rebuilds them. He didn't have sb lot of good things to say about the company. Non-existent aftermarket support, etc... Really interesting