The :baby: :baby: :baby: chronicles

Strut your greasy stuff!
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28784
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

Johnny_P wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:02 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:48 pm The final solution:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota- ... st-report/
It’s like they’re being as stubborn as Mazda was with the RX. That should have had the MS3 turbo engine.
I guess? :iono: Turbo fours are pretty meh... threes even worse. NA motors are better from a true sports car perspective, more predictable, linear, and consistent. They also will be subject to less heating issues and reliability concerns. The extra 75 ponies would require more cooling, brakes, beefier suspension, wider wheels/tires all adding up to a heavier car (and also more expensive).

I think the new motor was perfect. That said, offering both would be kind of :neat:
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Johnny_P wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:05 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:48 pm
20hp increase from just headers on stock tune?

:yeahok: :bs:
Historically speaking, power mods on a Subaru motor without an ECU recalibration is a recipe for disaster.
That's the case on any modern engine, even my 03 C5.

When I first put the headers on, it really didn't run that well. Idle was weird, power was peaky, it ran rich (you could smell it plus black soot), just bleh. Once I got it tuned, it was night and day better. I talked to the tuner about it, and he said the increase in airflow really needs to be accounted for in computer, otherwise it thinks something is wrong and tries to adjust appropriately.

Headers =/= catback. Catback exhaust doesn't do much of anything but make noise ( :howdareu: ) but headers do a lot to airflow. They absolutely add power, but they don't by themselves.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:09 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:02 pm

It’s like they’re being as stubborn as Mazda was with the RX. That should have had the MS3 turbo engine.
I guess? :iono: Turbo fours are pretty meh... threes even worse. NA motors are better from a true sports car perspective, more predictable, linear, and consistent. They also will be subject to less heating issues and reliability concerns. The extra 75 ponies would require more cooling, brakes, beefier suspension, wider wheels/tires all adding up to a heavier car (and also more expensive).

I think the new motor was perfect. That said, offering both would be kind of :neat:
I'd rather that 3cyl than strapping a blower to an engine/drivetrain that's not designed for it.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28784
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:54 pm
D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:09 pm

I guess? :iono: Turbo fours are pretty meh... threes even worse. NA motors are better from a true sports car perspective, more predictable, linear, and consistent. They also will be subject to less heating issues and reliability concerns. The extra 75 ponies would require more cooling, brakes, beefier suspension, wider wheels/tires all adding up to a heavier car (and also more expensive).

I think the new motor was perfect. That said, offering both would be kind of :neat:
I'd rather that 3cyl than strapping a blower to an engine/drivetrain that's not designed for it.
I agree, although super charger > turbo but also factory > aftermarket. :iono: I think the stock power or maybe stock + NA bolt ons would be just fine.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

I would be shocked if that I3 Toyota Turbo is not just a completely forged bulletproof monster. It was created to be thrashed. 1.6 liters making 300hp in DETUNED form? Versus a caulk flinging Subaru engine that your bolted boost on from some dude named Harrop? (John McEnroe Voice) You CANNOT be serious.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:36 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:54 pm
I'd rather that 3cyl than strapping a blower to an engine/drivetrain that's not designed for it.
I agree, although super charger > turbo but also factory > aftermarket. :iono: I think the stock power or maybe stock + NA bolt ons would be just fine.
Yea, superchargers are the most transparent with power delivery for sure. Turbros are just more efficient and the industry picked that.

I bet a 300hp 86 is the sweet spot that would decimate all. But it's pretty close to the Supra, so Toyota won't let that happen. Guess that's why the Nissan Z exists?
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28784
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

Desertbreh wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:41 pm I would be shocked if that I3 Toyota Turbo is not just a completely forged bulletproof monster. It was created to be thrashed. 1.6 liters making 300hp in DETUNED form? Versus a caulk flinging Subaru engine that your bolted boost on from some dude named Harrop? (John McEnroe Voice) You CANNOT be serious.
I'm not concerned about reliability but have you driven a turbo 3? They are pretty shitty. Very course feeling, no smoothness, no linear power delivery through the upper RPMs. I've driven Mini and Ferd's renditions and they were both kind of :disgust:

Reliability wise I'd say it's a toss up... 300 hp out of a 1.6 is significant, you do have to pay to play and all that.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:57 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:41 pm I would be shocked if that I3 Toyota Turbo is not just a completely forged bulletproof monster. It was created to be thrashed. 1.6 liters making 300hp in DETUNED form? Versus a caulk flinging Subaru engine that your bolted boost on from some dude named Harrop? (John McEnroe Voice) You CANNOT be serious.
I'm not concerned about reliability but have you driven a turbo 3? They are pretty shitty. Very course feeling, no smoothness, no linear power delivery through the upper RPMs. I've driven Mini and Ferd's renditions and they were both kind of :disgust:

Reliability wise I'd say it's a toss up... 300 hp out of a 1.6 is significant, you do have to pay to play and all that.
Those are economy engines in the Ferd and MINI. I wouldn't expect much from them, your take seems spot on.

I'd reserve judgement on the GR engine until driving it tho. GR Yaris reviews are very complimentary, I don't think Toyota would build it to be course with crap power delivery. Peak torque by 3k rpm, peak HP at 6.5k RPM, that sounds very promising.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3959 ... n-details/

This thing is legit.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:54 pm
D Griff wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:36 pm

I agree, although super charger > turbo but also factory > aftermarket. :iono: I think the stock power or maybe stock + NA bolt ons would be just fine.
Yea, superchargers are the most transparent with power delivery for sure. Turbros are just more efficient and the industry picked that.

I bet a 300hp 86 is the sweet spot that would decimate all. But it's pretty close to the Supra, so Toyota won't let that happen. Guess that's why the Nissan Z exists?
The videos of supercharged BRZs look epic. The extra torque, plus I'm a sucker for blower whine...yes plz. I know Harrop is working on updating their kit for the new platform, I would guess Edelbrock will as well. Here's hopin.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

coogles wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:29 pm
Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:54 pm
Yea, superchargers are the most transparent with power delivery for sure. Turbros are just more efficient and the industry picked that.

I bet a 300hp 86 is the sweet spot that would decimate all. But it's pretty close to the Supra, so Toyota won't let that happen. Guess that's why the Nissan Z exists?
The videos of supercharged BRZs look epic. The extra torque, plus I'm a sucker for blower whine...yes plz. I know Harrop is working on updating their kit for the new platform, I would guess Edelbrock will as well. Here's hopin.
I guess as long as it's running low boost and properly tuned for it, but these engines just don't seem to be all that durable. I'd be very :notsure: about strapping a blower to one.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

Detroit wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:02 pm
coogles wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:29 pm

The videos of supercharged BRZs look epic. The extra torque, plus I'm a sucker for blower whine...yes plz. I know Harrop is working on updating their kit for the new platform, I would guess Edelbrock will as well. Here's hopin.
I guess as long as it's running low boost and properly tuned for it, but these engines just don't seem to be all that durable. I'd be very :notsure: about strapping a blower to one.
You're :notwrong:, but basically anything should be able to handle 5-6 PSI. Even the 1st gens with just an Edelbrock blower seemed to do fine, they just didn't make all that much power. Harrop started off using the block out of an Ascent and pushed it to 375whp right off the bat. Not that swapping short blocks is without cost, but that's a pretty feasible option if you want to run more than, say, 300whp.

User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

Man it was nice getting the 86 out today. Between driving the Odyssey the last several times I've been out of the house, and it now being cooler and the engine being quite happy about that, I was having a really good time. :megusta:
User avatar
Johnny_P
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 40484
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:52 am
Drives: Blue short bus
Location: Philly

coogles wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:49 pm Man it was nice getting the 86 out today. Between driving the Odyssey the last several times I've been out of the house, and it now being cooler and the engine being quite happy about that, I was having a really good time. :megusta:
Any slidey boi action yet?
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

Johnny_P wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:26 pm
coogles wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:49 pm Man it was nice getting the 86 out today. Between driving the Odyssey the last several times I've been out of the house, and it now being cooler and the engine being quite happy about that, I was having a really good time. :megusta:
Any slidey boi action yet?
Just some really minor doriftos coming out of roundabouts. These PS4s are pretty damn sticky, and given the thing isn't super powerful there's not a lot of power oversteer going on even with the nannies fully off. I need to do an autox or something.
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

Image

Charcoal element removed, Grimmspeed throttle body hose and drop-in filter installed. Zero change in sound. :disappoint:

It may just be in my head, but throttle response does seem maybe ever so slightly better. :iono: At least the parts were cheap.
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

Gimme

User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8010
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

Desertbreh wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:41 pm I would be shocked if that I3 Toyota Turbo is not just a completely forged bulletproof monster. It was created to be thrashed. 1.6 liters making 300hp in DETUNED form? Versus a caulk flinging Subaru engine that your bolted boost on from some dude named Harrop? (John McEnroe Voice) You CANNOT be serious.
They're making like 500+ down undah
User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8010
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

coogles wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:08 pm Gimme

So good
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28784
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

coogles wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:08 pm Gimme

I think I may have to go with this. I need to see if there are any fitment issues with trailer hitches.
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28784
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

coogles wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:08 pm Gimme

I think I may have to go with this. I need to see if there are any fitment issues with trailer hitches.
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

D Griff wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:21 am I think I may have to go with this. I need to see if there are any fitment issues with trailer hitches.
There's a trailer hitch for these cars?
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

I guess there's this - http://www.slambertperformance.com/shop/twin-hitch

Wouldn't matter what exhaust you run, doe.

edit -

Loos like there are a couple options for the first gen. Maybe they'd fit?

https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2020_Subaru_BRZ.htm

I'm not planning on getting one either way, the tow rig will go on the :minivan:.
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28784
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

coogles wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:36 am I guess there's this - http://www.slambertperformance.com/shop/twin-hitch

Wouldn't matter what exhaust you run, doe.

edit -

Loos like there are a couple options for the first gen. Maybe they'd fit?

https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2020_Subaru_BRZ.htm

I'm not planning on getting one either way, the tow rig will go on the :minivan:.
Yeah I will likely just get that twin hitch, it's really for bike rack only. That said, I could see a tray being useful someday if I ever got really into tracking it, could hold wheels/tires. I am sort of :notsure: on the 100 pound tongue rating though, I think a tray/set of wheels/tires would be well over that.
User avatar
coogles
First Sirloin
First Sirloin
Posts: 4985
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am
Drives: Hooptie Crotchfruit Carrier
Location: Indianapolis

D Griff wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:59 am Yeah I will likely just get that twin hitch, it's really for bike rack only. That said, I could see a tray being useful someday if I ever got really into tracking it, could hold wheels/tires. I am sort of :notsure: on the 100 pound tongue rating though, I think a tray/set of wheels/tires would be well over that.
Yeah, that's definitely not much. The Eco Hitch is cool in that the receiver can come off, so it doesn't hang down below the bumper when not in use, and it has a 200lb tongue weight. 'spensive, doe.
User avatar
CaleDeRoo
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 8010
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 pm
Drives: C5
Location: CLT NC

D Griff wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:59 am
coogles wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:36 am I guess there's this - http://www.slambertperformance.com/shop/twin-hitch

Wouldn't matter what exhaust you run, doe.

edit -

Loos like there are a couple options for the first gen. Maybe they'd fit?

https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2020_Subaru_BRZ.htm

I'm not planning on getting one either way, the tow rig will go on the :minivan:.
Yeah I will likely just get that twin hitch, it's really for bike rack only. That said, I could see a tray being useful someday if I ever got really into tracking it, could hold wheels/tires. I am sort of :notsure: on the 100 pound tongue rating though, I think a tray/set of wheels/tires would be well over that.
Image
Post Reply