Recommend a new truck for my dad

[Johnny_P]

So my parents drove up to Philly again from Alabama. And now we are all staying at an Airbnb in western Virginia for a few nights. They drove their 2020 F150 up since they were concerned about the dirt roads to get to the Airbnb, thought my moms Honda Insight couldn’t handle it.

Anyways

Dad said he wants a new tow vehicle to replace the 2020 F150 with like 36,000 miles. They tow a camper that has a GVWR of 7,000 lb. The F150 can do it just fine, but it’s my dads daily runabout and fam, this truck BLOWS.

I drove it for 2 hours today and here’s my thoughts.
-This is a mid level XLT and it’s cheap as fuck inside. Plastics that make a Toyota LE model look lux. All the plastics creak. Everything is shiny. The shifter creaks when you grab it and it feels like a child toy. No keyless entry.
-10AT kicks and bucks the truck when it shifts and feels like it’s made of gravel. It also bucks the truck when it downshifts coming to a stop. It feels like it’s unfinished.
-Constant nonstop shimmy in the chassis and steering wheel driving on smooth roads.
-Pinging from engine under load and it occasionally makes a backfire sound.
-There’s no consistency to the brake pedal. I’m pretty sure it will apply the brakes harder depending on the speed you push the brake pedal.
-Uncomfortable seats for long drives
-17 mpg loaded up with 2 humans. 1 dog, and a few bags.

+It has so much torque it can accelerate uphill at highway speed in 10th gear with no need to downshift.
+Big side mirrors.
+It’s pretty quiet
+It can tow their enormous camper no sweat.

So. After 2 hours I can conclude that this truck sucks. He said he doesn’t like the way it drives. I agree. But he also said he would probably replace it with a newer F150 (he’s a Ford die hard). I pointed out it would have the same transmission and likely same motor so it wouldn’t resolve much. I think he originally wanted an Expedition but my mom was against it.

What can I recommend him? He needs to tow 7k lb + reliably across the country. It also needs to fit at least two baby seats (and baby gear) for when my sister visits. And he wants something that doesn’t drive and feel like crap.

I’m tempted to recommend the new Sequoia or Tahoe.

[Huckleberry]

GM would be out if their truck comes with the 10 speed. Both Ford and GM developed it with their own programming. Maybe it shifts better, but it is the same transmission.

I would recommend a Ram 1500. The 8 speed ZF is a great trans, the Hemi is a stout engine, and the coil springs in the rear will give a decent ride. You probably won't see an improvement in fuel economy, but trucks aren't ever going to yield impressive fuel economy. Rams are also known for great interiors.

[CaleDeRoo]

The RAM interior is the nicest by far*

*I haven't been in the updated GM trucks


It also rides and drives the best when not towing a trailer. The F150 has that classic truck jiggle, and the Silverado I drove felt like it had no front shocks already after 600mi.

If he's open to SUVs I've seen Wagoneers on lots. There might be some 0% or cash on the hood for those coming up. The Tahoe and Sequoia will probably be more difficult to get.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/333243661

Loved the cloth seats in my Big Horn rental.

[MexicanYarisTK]

GM would be out if their truck comes with the 10 speed. Both Ford and GM developed it with their own programming. Maybe it shifts better, but it is the same transmission.

I would recommend a Ram 1500. The 8 speed ZF is a great trans, the Hemi is a stout engine, and the coil springs in the rear will give a decent ride. You probably won't see an improvement in fuel economy, but trucks aren't ever going to yield impressive fuel economy. Rams are also known for great interiors.

The new Tundra gets about 17 mpg on the highway I think cause I believe the non base engine uses a mild hybrid.

[MexicanYarisTK]

Happy Thanksgiving Jay Pee.

First off off ford like the plague cause it's obvious it's not gonna be a remotely decent replacement. Check the bolded. My dad had a 2011 Ford Expedition and I pretty much echo what you mean, I had an expedition rental and its even fucking worse, the only difference was a 3.5 ecoboost. That's it. Transmission awful. Ride feels like you big ass chrome wheels with rubberband tires, even though it has more than enough rubber. Our crosstek was much better in that department in everyway. I have only driven the EXpedition in DC, but I do not want to fucking imagine.

For me it's ram and Tundra. The new Seqouia is pretty much an SUV tundra anyway. But I'd also recommend the tahoe for a drive as well.

So my parents drove up to Philly again from Alabama. And now we are all staying at an Airbnb in western Virginia for a few nights. They drove their 2020 F150 up since they were concerned about the dirt roads to get to the Airbnb, thought my moms Honda Insight couldn’t handle it.

Anyways

Dad said he wants a new tow vehicle to replace the 2020 F150 with like 36,000 miles. They tow a camper that has a GVWR of 7,000 lb. The F150 can do it just fine, but it’s my dads daily runabout and fam, this truck BLOWS.

I drove it for 2 hours today and here’s my thoughts.
-This is a mid level XLT and it’s cheap as fuck inside. Plastics that make a Toyota LE model look lux. All the plastics creak. Everything is shiny. The shifter creaks when you grab it and it feels like a child toy. No keyless entry.
-10AT kicks and bucks the truck when it shifts and feels like it’s made of gravel. It also bucks the truck when it downshifts coming to a stop. It feels like it’s unfinished.
-Constant nonstop shimmy in the chassis and steering wheel driving on smooth roads.
-Pinging from engine under load and it occasionally makes a backfire sound.
-There’s no consistency to the brake pedal. I’m pretty sure it will apply the brakes harder depending on the speed you push the brake pedal.
-Uncomfortable seats for long drives
-17 mpg loaded up with 2 humans. 1 dog, and a few bags.

+It has so much torque it can accelerate uphill at highway speed in 10th gear with no need to downshift.
+Big side mirrors.
+It’s pretty quiet
+It can tow their enormous camper no sweat.

So. After 2 hours I can conclude that this truck sucks. He said he doesn’t like the way it drives. I agree. But he also said he would probably replace it with a newer F150 (he’s a Ford die hard). I pointed out it would have the same transmission and likely same motor so it wouldn’t resolve much. I think he originally wanted an Expedition but my mom was against it.

What can I recommend him? He needs to tow 7k lb + reliably across the country. It also needs to fit at least two baby seats (and baby gear) for when my sister visits. And he wants something that doesn’t drive and feel like crap.

I’m tempted to recommend the new Sequoia or Tahoe.

[max225]

So my parents drove up to Philly again from Alabama. And now we are all staying at an Airbnb in western Virginia for a few nights. They drove their 2020 F150 up since they were concerned about the dirt roads to get to the Airbnb, thought my moms Honda Insight couldn’t handle it.

Anyways

Dad said he wants a new tow vehicle to replace the 2020 F150 with like 36,000 miles. They tow a camper that has a GVWR of 7,000 lb. The F150 can do it just fine, but it’s my dads daily runabout and fam, this truck BLOWS.

I drove it for 2 hours today and here’s my thoughts.
-This is a mid level XLT and it’s cheap as fuck inside. Plastics that make a Toyota LE model look lux. All the plastics creak. Everything is shiny. The shifter creaks when you grab it and it feels like a child toy. No keyless entry.
-10AT kicks and bucks the truck when it shifts and feels like it’s made of gravel. It also bucks the truck when it downshifts coming to a stop. It feels like it’s unfinished.
-Constant nonstop shimmy in the chassis and steering wheel driving on smooth roads.
-Pinging from engine under load and it occasionally makes a backfire sound.
-There’s no consistency to the brake pedal. I’m pretty sure it will apply the brakes harder depending on the speed you push the brake pedal.
-Uncomfortable seats for long drives
-17 mpg loaded up with 2 humans. 1 dog, and a few bags.

+It has so much torque it can accelerate uphill at highway speed in 10th gear with no need to downshift.
+Big side mirrors.
+It’s pretty quiet
+It can tow their enormous camper no sweat.

So. After 2 hours I can conclude that this truck sucks. He said he doesn’t like the way it drives. I agree. But he also said he would probably replace it with a newer F150 (he’s a Ford die hard). I pointed out it would have the same transmission and likely same motor so it wouldn’t resolve much. I think he originally wanted an Expedition but my mom was against it.

What can I recommend him? He needs to tow 7k lb + reliably across the country. It also needs to fit at least two baby seats (and baby gear) for when my sister visits. And he wants something that doesn’t drive and feel like crap.

I’m tempted to recommend the new Sequoia or Tahoe.

What’s the budget here ?

New sequoia is unobtanium and pretty much 70k… given that he has an xlt any up level trim will cost a pretty penny.

[Johnny_P]

Not really sure what his budget is. Let’s say $50k?

[CaleDeRoo]

Not really sure what his budget is. Let’s say $50k?

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/333243661

[max225]

Not really sure what his budget is. Let’s say $50k?

If new that’s pretty restricting because full sizers are basically a 60-65k proposition at the moment unless he is ok with Porta potty interiors.

An sr5 tundra may work … but they are pretty unobtanium to get

[CaleDeRoo]

Luckily resale is pretty high on trucks so your dad won't be eating too much when he gets a new one.

[golftdibrad1]

If you don't like the Ford offering get the GM offering. Get good at changing fuel pumps.

People seem to like the big Toyota truck but I dont see enough people doing truck shit with them and the fuel mileage is terrible.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

First of all, 7k lbs is quite a bit to tow consistently for long distances. Certainly within the limits of a light duty pickup or full size SUV (Tahoe, Expedition, Sequoia, etc), but I think a well built truck is going to go a long way here as this use case is a bit more taxing than most LD truck cases.

Ford and GM are both pretty "modern" with 10 speed transmissions, turbro engines, "improved" (lighter/cheaper) frame and structure, lighter (cheaper) interiors, etc. The NEW GM truck (2023 model year) interiors are really quite nice. I was quite surprised when I sat in one at the Detroit show, it's NICE.

For $50k, I'd follow other's suggestions and go Ram. Nothing has really changed with these trucks over the last 10 years other than improved interiors and tech. The 5.7 Hemi and 8-speed work excellent together and have been paired together for a long time now. Fuel economy will be the same regardless of powertrain when towing, so going tried and true is probably smart. Interiors are truly best in class, they ride incredibly well, and they're super quiet.

The 5.7 will be gone in a few years to be replaced by something WAY more complex and AND Ram is already discounting trucks quite a bit so deals can be had. It's a great time to buy a Ram.

A Crew Cab Long Horn with 5.7 and NOT 3.20 gears (3.50 or 3.92, trust me) would be a great option here.

Another would be a base Wagoneer. Basically the same as a Ram but an SUV. With discounts, they might be getting into the price range, and while ugly, certainly worth considering IMO.

[D Griff]

I would also RAM, they look the best and have the best engine/transmission, plus discounts and nice interiors.

I had a rental 5.0 Mustang convertible this week (I have a long thread/story coming with the rental shenanigans of our Thanksgiving trip) and returned it after driving about 10 miles because the transmission was just that bad. With 54K miles on the clock, they were the roughest shifts I've ever felt and I didn't have confidence in the car making it from Vegas to Zion and around Southern UT/Northern AZ and back. I've had EcoBoom Mustang rentals and they all shifted terribly but this was worse. That 10 speed is a joke AT BEST.

[MexicanYarisTK]

First of all, 7k lbs is quite a bit to tow consistently for long distances. Certainly within the limits of a light duty pickup or full size SUV (Tahoe, Expedition, Sequoia, etc), but I think a well built truck is going to go a long way here as this use case is a bit more taxing than most LD truck cases.

Ford and GM are both pretty "modern" with 10 speed transmissions, turbro engines, "improved" (lighter/cheaper) frame and structure, lighter (cheaper) interiors, etc. The NEW GM truck (2023 model year) interiors are really quite nice. I was quite surprised when I sat in one at the Detroit show, it's NICE.

For $50k, I'd follow other's suggestions and go Ram. Nothing has really changed with these trucks over the last 10 years other than improved interiors and tech. The 5.7 Hemi and 8-speed work excellent together and have been paired together for a long time now. Fuel economy will be the same regardless of powertrain when towing, so going tried and true is probably smart. Interiors are truly best in class, they ride incredibly well, and they're super quiet.

The 5.7 will be gone in a few years to be replaced by something WAY more complex and AND Ram is already discounting trucks quite a bit so deals can be had. It's a great time to buy a Ram.

A Crew Cab Long Horn with 5.7 and NOT 3.20 gears (3.50 or 3.92, trust me) would be a great option here.

Another would be a base Wagoneer. Basically the same as a Ram but an SUV. With discounts, they might be getting into the price range, and while ugly, certainly worth considering IMO.

hmmm should I get a ram

[Johnny_P]

I would also RAM, they look the best and have the best engine/transmission, plus discounts and nice interiors.

I had a rental 5.0 Mustang convertible this week (I have a long thread/story coming with the rental shenanigans of our Thanksgiving trip) and returned it after driving about 10 miles because the transmission was just that bad. With 54K miles on the clock, they were the roughest shifts I've ever felt and I didn't have confidence in the car making it from Vegas to Zion and around Southern UT/Northern AZ and back. I've had EcoBoom Mustang rentals and they all shifted terribly but this was worse. That 10 speed is a joke AT BEST.

I know right? This 10 speed in his F150 was really sad. I felt so bad for him because he keeps bringing it back to the dealer and they keep saying it’s fine. Easily worst transmission I’ve ever used.

The mind boggling bit is that the 10 speed in the camaro SS was the single best automatic I’ve ever used. Which is theoretically the same transmission?! It shifted fast and smooth with excellent programming.

I’ll suggest he looks at Ram trucks again. He said they felt a lot larger to drive and didn’t like them because of it. But their automatic is at least acceptable and although I put little faith in Stellantis, I think these have been out long enough to work out the kinks.

[Johnny_P]

First of all, 7k lbs is quite a bit to tow consistently for long distances. Certainly within the limits of a light duty pickup or full size SUV (Tahoe, Expedition, Sequoia, etc), but I think a well built truck is going to go a long way here as this use case is a bit more taxing than most LD truck cases.

Ford and GM are both pretty "modern" with 10 speed transmissions, turbro engines, "improved" (lighter/cheaper) frame and structure, lighter (cheaper) interiors, etc. The NEW GM truck (2023 model year) interiors are really quite nice. I was quite surprised when I sat in one at the Detroit show, it's NICE.

For $50k, I'd follow other's suggestions and go Ram. Nothing has really changed with these trucks over the last 10 years other than improved interiors and tech. The 5.7 Hemi and 8-speed work excellent together and have been paired together for a long time now. Fuel economy will be the same regardless of powertrain when towing, so going tried and true is probably smart. Interiors are truly best in class, they ride incredibly well, and they're super quiet.

The 5.7 will be gone in a few years to be replaced by something WAY more complex and AND Ram is already discounting trucks quite a bit so deals can be had. It's a great time to buy a Ram.

A Crew Cab Long Horn with 5.7 and NOT 3.20 gears (3.50 or 3.92, trust me) would be a great option here.

Another would be a base Wagoneer. Basically the same as a Ram but an SUV. With discounts, they might be getting into the price range, and while ugly, certainly worth considering IMO.

Yeah I will suggest Ram again. Wagoneer I suggested but they’re so expensive and damn ugly. So idk. At least the ram trucks look really good.

He is so bummed about this truck. I felt so bad for him. He’s a through and through Ford guy… but I doubt they made significant updates to address all these issues with their latest gen.

[Johnny_P]

First of all, 7k lbs is quite a bit to tow consistently for long distances. Certainly within the limits of a light duty pickup or full size SUV (Tahoe, Expedition, Sequoia, etc), but I think a well built truck is going to go a long way here as this use case is a bit more taxing than most LD truck cases.

Ford and GM are both pretty "modern" with 10 speed transmissions, turbro engines, "improved" (lighter/cheaper) frame and structure, lighter (cheaper) interiors, etc. The NEW GM truck (2023 model year) interiors are really quite nice. I was quite surprised when I sat in one at the Detroit show, it's NICE.

For $50k, I'd follow other's suggestions and go Ram. Nothing has really changed with these trucks over the last 10 years other than improved interiors and tech. The 5.7 Hemi and 8-speed work excellent together and have been paired together for a long time now. Fuel economy will be the same regardless of powertrain when towing, so going tried and true is probably smart. Interiors are truly best in class, they ride incredibly well, and they're super quiet.

The 5.7 will be gone in a few years to be replaced by something WAY more complex and AND Ram is already discounting trucks quite a bit so deals can be had. It's a great time to buy a Ram.

A Crew Cab Long Horn with 5.7 and NOT 3.20 gears (3.50 or 3.92, trust me) would be a great option here.

Another would be a base Wagoneer. Basically the same as a Ram but an SUV. With discounts, they might be getting into the price range, and while ugly, certainly worth considering IMO.

hmmm should I get a ram

No

[D Griff]

hmmm should I get a ram

No

Gross. Driving a full sized if you aren't towing is so dumb. It bothers me so much how many people do it.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I would also RAM, they look the best and have the best engine/transmission, plus discounts and nice interiors.

I had a rental 5.0 Mustang convertible this week (I have a long thread/story coming with the rental shenanigans of our Thanksgiving trip) and returned it after driving about 10 miles because the transmission was just that bad. With 54K miles on the clock, they were the roughest shifts I've ever felt and I didn't have confidence in the car making it from Vegas to Zion and around Southern UT/Northern AZ and back. I've had EcoBoom Mustang rentals and they all shifted terribly but this was worse. That 10 speed is a joke AT BEST.

I know right? This 10 speed in his F150 was really sad. I felt so bad for him because he keeps bringing it back to the dealer and they keep saying it’s fine. Easily worst transmission I’ve ever used.

The mind boggling bit is that the 10 speed in the camaro SS was the single best automatic I’ve ever used. Which is theoretically the same transmission?! It shifted fast and smooth with excellent programming.

I’ll suggest he looks at Ram trucks again. He said they felt a lot larger to drive and didn’t like them because of it. But their automatic is at least acceptable and although I put little faith in Stellantis, I think these have been out long enough to work out the kinks.

The 10 speed was developed mechanically between GM and Ford. But all of the programming was handled by each OEM, and I think it's clear that somehow GM knows how to tune a transmission, while Ford doesn't. There's enough blind loyalists like your dad to keep the brand strong, but the products have just never impressed me compared to others.

It hurts me to recommend a Stellanus product, but the Ram is truly the best pickup out there right now. The new Silverado with the new interior gives it a run for the money, but just about all of them are using the 10 speed, and most have the 2.7T, which seems like a really promising engine since it was designed specifically for this use, but the jury is still out on longer-term reliability (GM has struggled with this on ICE as of late).

The Ram has been built the same way mechanically for over a decade. The Hemi and 8-speed have proven to be a really great tried and true combo, combining that with a fantastic interior and best in class NVH, PLUS readily available discounts, it should be at the top of the list IMO.

My shopping list for a truck like this for this use would be:

Ram 1500 Hemi
Silverado 1500 5.3 (would consider a 2.7 because the V8 will probably command a price premium)
Tundra
.
.
.
.
.
Ferd

[Johnny_P]

No

Gross. Driving a full sized if you aren't towing is so dumb. It bothers me so much how many people do it.

All image related I suppose. Or they need an occasional truck so just get it as their DD.

I dunno. My CRV handled general driving and even dirt roads way better than the truck did. The only thing it didn’t do as well is accelerate, the truck is admittedly pretty fast.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

No

Gross. Driving a full sized if you aren't towing is so dumb. It bothers me so much how many people do it.

Even if you are towing, it's dumb. At 7k lbs, JP's dad actually SHOULD have a full size truck for long distances. Anything smaller will be capable but could be pushed around a bit. Most people don't even tow 7k lbs tho, so midsizers are an even better option. The 4R tows our 4k boat and trailer ZFG.

A new Colorado would be with the 2.7 and 8-speed. It would technically tow 7k lbs, but not with the truck loaded for a longer trip. Might also be a bit cramped with car seats. But that thing is the ideal truck for most IMO.

[CaleDeRoo]

Reposting for

[Desertbreh]

I would also RAM, they look the best and have the best engine/transmission, plus discounts and nice interiors.

I had a rental 5.0 Mustang convertible this week (I have a long thread/story coming with the rental shenanigans of our Thanksgiving trip) and returned it after driving about 10 miles because the transmission was just that bad. With 54K miles on the clock, they were the roughest shifts I've ever felt and I didn't have confidence in the car making it from Vegas to Zion and around Southern UT/Northern AZ and back. I've had EcoBoom Mustang rentals and they all shifted terribly but this was worse. That 10 speed is a joke AT BEST.

I will offer a counterpoint to all the 10 speed hate on here that the 10 speed in my 2019 Tahoe is supah smooth and I like it.

[D Griff]

I would also RAM, they look the best and have the best engine/transmission, plus discounts and nice interiors.

I had a rental 5.0 Mustang convertible this week (I have a long thread/story coming with the rental shenanigans of our Thanksgiving trip) and returned it after driving about 10 miles because the transmission was just that bad. With 54K miles on the clock, they were the roughest shifts I've ever felt and I didn't have confidence in the car making it from Vegas to Zion and around Southern UT/Northern AZ and back. I've had EcoBoom Mustang rentals and they all shifted terribly but this was worse. That 10 speed is a joke AT BEST.

I will offer a counterpoint to all the 10 speed hate on here that the 10 speed in my 2019 Tahoe is supah smooth and I like it.

Sounds like GMs software makes all the difference.

[max225]

I would also RAM, they look the best and have the best engine/transmission, plus discounts and nice interiors.

I had a rental 5.0 Mustang convertible this week (I have a long thread/story coming with the rental shenanigans of our Thanksgiving trip) and returned it after driving about 10 miles because the transmission was just that bad. With 54K miles on the clock, they were the roughest shifts I've ever felt and I didn't have confidence in the car making it from Vegas to Zion and around Southern UT/Northern AZ and back. I've had EcoBoom Mustang rentals and they all shifted terribly but this was worse. That 10 speed is a joke AT BEST.

I will offer a counterpoint to all the 10 speed hate on here that the 10 speed in my 2019 Tahoe is supah smooth and I like it.

You're actually just confirming their hypothesis that GM brogrammed the hardware better than fraud.