Car Talk 6: Best of times and Worst of Times

Brothers of brub and brap, this is your safe space.
User avatar
Johnny_P
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 40484
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:52 am
Drives: Blue short bus
Location: Philly

On Star always felt like a “but why” service to me. Something I’d never use. Kind of like my sunroof in the CRV, which I opened exactly one time and promptly closed it when I realized I couldn’t even see it from the drivers seat and it would just roast my melon.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:01 am I want to learn more about these groups and how much property they hold. Is there any data on them?
The data is almost impossible to gather concretely as these groups are starting their own STR management channels outside of AirBNB or VRBO.

Here's one of the biggest ones in TC:
https://www.thetruenorthproperty.com/tr ... m-rentals/
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42429
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:01 am I want to learn more about these groups and how much property they hold. Is there any data on them?
Rant incomming in a bit
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:12 am
Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:01 am I want to learn more about these groups and how much property they hold. Is there any data on them?
Rant incomming in a bit
:popcorn:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

Detroit wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:11 am
Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:01 am I want to learn more about these groups and how much property they hold. Is there any data on them?
The data is almost impossible to gather concretely as these groups are starting their own STR management channels outside of AirBNB or VRBO.

Here's one of the biggest ones in TC:
https://www.thetruenorthproperty.com/tr ... m-rentals/
Oh wow, that company is pretty big.

Curious to see how many properties are corporately owned in TC
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:12 am
Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:01 am I want to learn more about these groups and how much property they hold. Is there any data on them?
Rant incomming in a bit
:doit:

I want to understand this topic better as it relates closely to what I'm invested in
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:33 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:11 am
The data is almost impossible to gather concretely as these groups are starting their own STR management channels outside of AirBNB or VRBO.

Here's one of the biggest ones in TC:
https://www.thetruenorthproperty.com/tr ... m-rentals/
Oh wow, that company is pretty big.

Curious to see how many properties are corporately owned in TC
Me too, I've been trying to find it but data is sparse.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42429
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

I for one am getting really fed up with "Real estate iNvestiNg" my family does it and so do some of my friends. And frankly I think it is a ruthless practice that PREYS ON THE POOR. I do not know how these people sleep at night.

The standard operating procedure is to come in buy a POS place and "reno" it and rent it out to achieve some sort of "positive cash flow" now the thing is... It really MADE NO SENSE before 2020. The carrying costs of the homes usually exceeded the rental income. And most of these people were losing money....

Now that house prices went through the roof, all of em are quite positive as far as asset values. BUT they are doing DICK moves and raising rents to the maximum allowable, which currently is 3-4% + inflation capped at 10%. The people they are raising rent on, live in shitholes, and they have very limited incomes... but "InFlaTioN" and everything is going up right? You can just pump and dump the poorest of the folk... I hate it... i really do and I think it needs to be ILLEGAL to own properties for cash generation. I.E Sure you can rent out your vacation home when you're not there but you have to spend a minimum 1 month out of the year there.

It has turned into an epic pyramid scheme, people and now Corporations go in ... buy shit up.... repackage it... raise rent and sell to another "investor" meanwhile the poorest of the poor are stuck with shit they can not afford. And because this practice has raised prop values to unattainable levels... it FORCES THE POOR INTO A CLOSED LOOP of never ending raises in rent. I hate it... I really do with a passion.

I really want prop prices to come tumbling down and correct 30-50% so that all these amateur investors go belly up and flood the market so that others can finally afford not to be caught up in the cycle. Unfortunately this is where the institutions come in... Carlyle, Blackstone and TPG. FUCK THOS GUYS.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021 ... iler-parks here is a lovely article.



Another one... I hate this cuck but he touches on good points. But there are layers to this... it starts at mobile homes.. then cheap SFH in places like traverse city, places in florida etc (cheap is relative as they have all now doubled in value and then some).

So what happens in this ugly cycle ? it is quite simple... first the homes sell... then the cash rich buyer "invests" slightly into the property putting some lipstick on a pig, because this is a un -natural price appreciation, it raises comps in the area, and turns unsustainable to the local populous thus displacing it... (as Chris pointed out). Once this price appreciation is seen, it creates a runaways diesel effect. Now that area is showing "GROWTH" so it attracts MORE CANCEROUS INVESTORS, who bid against each other FURTHER escalating pricing.. because things "GO UP ONLY" and look at this new "gentrified area with the new paint jobs on 1950s homes". It turns into a parasitic operation that essentially destroys the local economy long term, as it doesn't truly draw people who live and sustain in the area, its boom and bust only, and with no constantly recurring local population, it turns it into ghost towns... until the bubble bursts. But at that point the damage has been done.

I think I hate the real estate "business" more than the "car business" in the united states. It is just a disgusting side effect of capitalism... still the best system out there's but clearly some regulation would be for the greater good IMO.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:38 am I for one am getting really fed up with "Real estate iNvestiNg" my family does it and so do some of my friends. And frankly I think it is a ruthless practice that PREYS ON THE POOR. I do not know how these people sleep at night.

The standard operating procedure is to come in buy a POS place and "reno" it and rent it out to achieve some sort of "positive cash flow" now the thing is... It really MADE NO SENSE before 2020. The carrying costs of the homes usually exceeded the rental income. And most of these people were losing money....

Now that house prices went through the roof, all of em are quite positive as far as asset values. BUT they are doing DICK moves and raising rents to the maximum allowable, which currently is 3-4% + inflation capped at 10%. The people they are raising rent on, live in shitholes, and they have very limited incomes... but "InFlaTioN" and everything is going up right? You can just pump and dump the poorest of the folk... I hate it... i really do and I think it needs to be ILLEGAL to own properties for cash generation. I.E Sure you can rent out your vacation home when you're not there but you have to spend a minimum 1 month out of the year there.

It has turned into an epic pyramid scheme, people and now Corporations go in ... buy shit up.... repackage it... raise rent and sell to another "investor" meanwhile the poorest of the poor are stuck with shit they can not afford. And because this practice has raised prop values to unattainable levels... it FORCES THE POOR INTO A CLOSED LOOP of never ending raises in rent. I hate it... I really do with a passion.

I really want prop prices to come tumbling down and correct 30-50% so that all these amateur investors go belly up and flood the market so that others can finally afford not to be caught up in the cycle. Unfortunately this is where the institutions come in... Carlyle, Blackstone and TPG. FUCK THOS GUYS.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021 ... iler-parks here is a lovely article.



Another one... I hate this cuck but he touches on good points. But there are layers to this... it starts at mobile homes.. then cheap SFH in places like traverse city, places in florida etc (cheap is relative as they have all now doubled in value and then some).

So what happens in this ugly cycle ? it is quite simple... first the homes sell... then the cash rich buyer "invests" slightly into the property putting some lipstick on a pig, because this is a un -natural price appreciation, it raises comps in the area, and turns unsustainable to the local populous thus displacing it... (as Chris pointed out). Once this price appreciation is seen, it creates a runaways diesel effect. Now that area is showing "GROWTH" so it attracts MORE CANCEROUS INVESTORS, who bid against each other FURTHER escalating pricing.. because things "GO UP ONLY" and look at this new "gentrified area with the new paint jobs on 1950s homes". It turns into a parasitic operation that essentially destroys the local economy long term, as it doesn't truly draw people who live and sustain in the area, its boom and bust only, and with no constantly recurring local population, it turns it into ghost towns... until the bubble bursts. But at that point the damage has been done.

I think I hate the real estate "business" more than the "car business" in the united states. It is just a disgusting side effect of capitalism... still the best system out there's but clearly some regulation would be for the greater good IMO.
Brotha from another motha. Could not agree more here. I'm legit concerned for my community.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

I can speak freely as I'msomeone who plans to sell my "investment" property in 20+ years and am really just inflation hedging for my kids sake, as they will not afford property by the time they are ready to buy some. So here goes:

You mentioned above that "it's the best system out there" so you're frustration is with capitalism in general. I agree with you to some extent, but inflation has been increasing house prices for the last chartable 100 years. While these blood sucking corps are profiting massively, they are not nearly as responsible as you make them out to be (opinion)... at least I can't see it in the broader market. SF/Bay area is always going to be desirable for its climate/geography.. so there would never BE cheap real estate anyways.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

A viable fix is to increase gains taxes on corps that own multiple residential properties for STR or in Max's case LTR rental purposes.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42429
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:57 am I can speak freely as I'msomeone who plans to sell my "investment" property in 20+ years and am really just inflation hedging for my kids sake, as they will not afford property by the time they are ready to buy some. So here goes:

You mentioned above that "it's the best system out there" so you're frustration is with capitalism in general. I agree with you to some extent, but inflation has been increasing house prices for the last chartable 100 years. While these blood sucking corps are profiting massively, they are not nearly as responsible as you make them out to be (opinion)... at least I can't see it in the broader market. SF/Bay area is always going to be desirable for its climate/geography.. so there would never BE cheap real estate anyways.
These corps have significant holdings all over the country, they spring up like mushrooms after a rainstorm every time there is blip in house prices. What REALLY sucks for us as people in this country, these corps make massive profits, and when shit hits the fan, they just default and go belly up with all their debts, sticking the US tax payer with the bill.

It's always been this way unfortunately. IMO RE should NOT be appreciating above all else. And unfortunately that hasn't been the case lately. as it is now seen as an investment... and that draws un-natural price increases that price out the average american destroying the middle class. A house or multiple homes within the single owner need to be LIVED in IMO. That's the only way to fix it... once it turns into an investment you force the poor into indentured servitude.

https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-pri ... ome-ratio/

This is a good chart also.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Just found this, no idea if it's accurate or not, but it demonstrates the issue with STR in my city:

https://www.airdna.co/vacation-rental-d ... y/overview

Just look at the map and see where the STRs are concentrated. You wouldn't know this, but they're dominating areas that traditionally were cheaper homes for low income people. We're talking sub-$100k houses historically, we seriously tried to buy one as an escape for ourselves 7 years ago, but couldn't make the math work at the time. These are not areas that I'd personally want to live in full time for more than $100k, there's very little desirable about them (no water access, tiny poorly built homes on slabs, no yard, etc) and most remote work people that are destroying my area (yea, I get that all the time) are just inflating the prices of houses in areas that have always been out of reach of low income folks (like where I live). I don't take issue with this. Yes, I can no longer afford my neighborhood, but that's just because a lot of rich people want to LIVE HERE. That's just capitalism, nothing you can do there. I don't take issue with permanent residents or people buying personal escape properties for their own use and to rent when they're not there.

STRs "investors" are specifically targeting low price areas here because they have the highest margin opportunity. This has a direct negative impact on low income people, with no benefit to the community whatsoever. TC has always been a tourist destination, and we have a TON of hotels people can stay at. Many of those hotels are locally owned by private individuals, so STR is actually hurting our economy if these hotels are empty. There's no need for all this STR development other than greed and gainz like Max pointed out.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:07 pm A viable fix is to increase gains taxes on corps that own multiple residential properties for STR or in Max's case LTR rental purposes.
:dat:

Or taxes go up if you spend less than a month a year at a property you own.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:08 pm
Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:57 am I can speak freely as I'msomeone who plans to sell my "investment" property in 20+ years and am really just inflation hedging for my kids sake, as they will not afford property by the time they are ready to buy some. So here goes:

You mentioned above that "it's the best system out there" so you're frustration is with capitalism in general. I agree with you to some extent, but inflation has been increasing house prices for the last chartable 100 years. While these blood sucking corps are profiting massively, they are not nearly as responsible as you make them out to be (opinion)... at least I can't see it in the broader market. SF/Bay area is always going to be desirable for its climate/geography.. so there would never BE cheap real estate anyways.
These corps have significant holdings all over the country, they spring up like mushrooms after a rainstorm every time there is blip in house prices. What REALLY sucks for us as people in this country, these corps make massive profits, and when shit hits the fan, they just default and go belly up with all their debts, sticking the US tax payer with the bill.

It's always been this way unfortunately. IMO RE should NOT be appreciating above all else. And unfortunately that hasn't been the case lately. as it is now seen as an investment... and that draws un-natural price increases that price out the average american destroying the middle class. A house or multiple homes within the single owner need to be LIVED in IMO. That's the only way to fix it... once it turns into an investment you force the poor into indentured servitude.

https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-pri ... ome-ratio/

This is a good chart also.
Yeah that corporate purchasing scheme is :disgust:

Real inflation is nearing 10%, many charts look like that one, but I agree that investing in homes will push the price up and corps don't need to own their own liabilities as they can bankrupt and walk away.

Home price appreciation does go back to the beginning of time, and really takes off in the 1970s. It had more to do with currency valuations then home investors, and this is also the case now as well IMO.

I wish to reiterate, FUCK Blackrock and all that jazz. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they saw new regulations making it less profitable to buy homes in bulk for the purpose of LTR/STR, I just know that this somewhat new hatred towards those firms may change what I do with my place (I.e. rent it out which HELPS local retail businesses increase their sales by providing additional space for tourists to stay at in a market that is completely sold out for 10 weeks/yr.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

Detroit wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:14 pm
Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:07 pm A viable fix is to increase gains taxes on corps that own multiple residential properties for STR or in Max's case LTR rental purposes.
:dat:

Or taxes go up if you spend less than a month a year at a property you own.
:notbad:

But that's an easy one to elude, just prove that you're not renting for one month per year.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42429
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

So areas where tourism is traditionally high that has always had this happen is mostly OK in my book because it ends up being heavily regulated. I.E Hawaii... it provides a decent competition for hotels etc. Areas that had no business in the STR business all the sudden having them spring up is just :disgust:

At the end of the day, if people are willing to pay $400-1000 for an Airbnb which is still SHOCKING to me because I have never paid that much for a night EVER in my entire life. Then so be it...clearly the market is there for something I am not fully understanding.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:22 pm So areas where tourism is traditionally high that has always had this happen is mostly OK in my book because it ends up being heavily regulated. I.E Hawaii... it provides a decent competition for hotels etc. Areas that had no business in the STR business all the sudden having them spring up is just :disgust:

At the end of the day, if people are willing to pay $400-1000 for an Airbnb which is still SHOCKING to me because I have never paid that much for a night EVER in my entire life. Then so be it...clearly the market is there for something I am not fully understanding.
Chris posted a site that rents numerous properties through their portal, some are very affordable. Maybe the properties are owned by private individuals who will pay a cut for the marketing and booking services.... rental income comes from demand, so areas in higher demand command higher prices.

I dunno man, I'm still trying to understand why housing is up so much, but it just seems like typical economics of supply and demand... TC benefits from higher property values primarily because families can move there and work remotely, so more do.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

https://www.builderonline.com/money/are ... ly-homes_c

Going into a meeting, but here's an article to support the corp rental income scheme... interesting
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42429
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:36 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:22 pm So areas where tourism is traditionally high that has always had this happen is mostly OK in my book because it ends up being heavily regulated. I.E Hawaii... it provides a decent competition for hotels etc. Areas that had no business in the STR business all the sudden having them spring up is just :disgust:

At the end of the day, if people are willing to pay $400-1000 for an Airbnb which is still SHOCKING to me because I have never paid that much for a night EVER in my entire life. Then so be it...clearly the market is there for something I am not fully understanding.
Chris posted a site that rents numerous properties through their portal, some are very affordable. Maybe the properties are owned by private individuals who will pay a cut for the marketing and booking services.... rental income comes from demand, so areas in higher demand command higher prices.

I dunno man, I'm still trying to understand why housing is up so much, but it just seems like typical economics of supply and demand... TC benefits from higher property values primarily because families can move there and work remotely, so more do.
Multiple reasons.
1. Free money for too long (Interest rates of 2% or so allowed for very cheap carrying costs of properties)
2. Investment grade appreciation, 10% or more of annual appreciation allows to cover carrying costs of 5-8% through appreciation alone not to mention cash flow
3. People had a lot of cash to spend through financial stimulus and being locked up for 1.5 years.

All 3 of those above metrics are no longer present. Which is why the current housing market has ground to a halt... but... Traveling hasn't been fully hit yet as people are still employed. That 3.5% unemployment rate is what the fed is targeting to increase. There is not enough competition in the labor market.

In addition I would be shocked if they don't increase IR by another .75% during the next meeting.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:22 pm So areas where tourism is traditionally high that has always had this happen is mostly OK in my book because it ends up being heavily regulated. I.E Hawaii... it provides a decent competition for hotels etc. Areas that had no business in the STR business all the sudden having them spring up is just :disgust:

At the end of the day, if people are willing to pay $400-1000 for an Airbnb which is still SHOCKING to me because I have never paid that much for a night EVER in my entire life. Then so be it...clearly the market is there for something I am not fully understanding.
I don't think the market is there anymore. Tourism this year was down quite a bit here from past years, or even pre-COVID years. That site I found listing STRs indicated a 69% ( :hue: ) occupancy rate. No idea if that's good, but it's well under 100%, so there's clearly more supply than demand right now.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

Detroit wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:43 am
Tar wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:49 am

How? I'd love to understand this perspective more since I rent my cottage out when we're not using it and the guests are usually two families paired up and easily spend an extra $1500 each while in the Bend. Restaurants, rentals, shows, and stores all benefit from my visitors.
When it happens en masse for an entire area, it pushes out lower income people just looking to live. Apartment buildings are being converted to condos for "investors" to buy and turn into STR, and all those renters have nowhere to go. Houses that used to be $100k are $300k min and being sold above ask and being turned into STRs instantly. Those homes before would have sold to a young family or someone buying their first house, now there's no options for those people, so they're leaving.

Who cares about the low income people right? Good riddance?

Well, who are the servers at restaurants? Who comes out to fix your water softener? Who trims trees or does road maintenance? Low income folks are the backbone of the economy, like it or not. In Traverse City, they're being pushed to communities that are 20-30 miles away. So the server making $5/hr (in Michigan, servers can be paid below minimum wage since tips make up for it) is driving 40 miles round trip with $5/gal gas to just be treated like garbage by rich assholes completely out of touch with reality and tipping them 10% or less. OH and since all the low income people are being forced to the same areas, traffic on the few 2-lane roads that go in and out of those areas is SAVAGE from like 6-8am and 4-6pm. So these folks are driving 40-60 miles round trip per day that probably takes over an hour minimum sitting in traffic on 2 lane roads that were never intended to serve so many vehicles.

Many are leaving the area entirely, and I don't blame them. We're going to be a community of rich people with nobody to do any actual work. That's not going to end well at all. And the biggest rub, if there's no servers or service industry workers, tourism is toast. So all these STRs will be worthless and it's by their own doing.
There was a fairly extensive WSJ article documenting Boise's rise as a "Zoomtown" and its currently leveling and expected fall in prices. I expect Traverse City is the same dealo. It is quite the thing that you snuck in before all of this bullshit. I mean, you're bitching about the outsider fuckery (which is retarded, I'm not fucking paying $500 for a VRBO near TC, lovely though it might be) but at the same time they are driving the equity in your concrete bunker with donkey dick watchtower through the roof.

IDK. The wifepiece and I are fans of NOLA for the food and the oldness. In the midst of all of this zaniness we found a 500 sq. foot room at a French Quarter Hyatt for $161/nt over Thanksgiving week. In the post-Covid hotel apocalypse, that is free.com
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42429
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Desertbreh wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:05 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:43 am
When it happens en masse for an entire area, it pushes out lower income people just looking to live. Apartment buildings are being converted to condos for "investors" to buy and turn into STR, and all those renters have nowhere to go. Houses that used to be $100k are $300k min and being sold above ask and being turned into STRs instantly. Those homes before would have sold to a young family or someone buying their first house, now there's no options for those people, so they're leaving.

Who cares about the low income people right? Good riddance?

Well, who are the servers at restaurants? Who comes out to fix your water softener? Who trims trees or does road maintenance? Low income folks are the backbone of the economy, like it or not. In Traverse City, they're being pushed to communities that are 20-30 miles away. So the server making $5/hr (in Michigan, servers can be paid below minimum wage since tips make up for it) is driving 40 miles round trip with $5/gal gas to just be treated like garbage by rich assholes completely out of touch with reality and tipping them 10% or less. OH and since all the low income people are being forced to the same areas, traffic on the few 2-lane roads that go in and out of those areas is SAVAGE from like 6-8am and 4-6pm. So these folks are driving 40-60 miles round trip per day that probably takes over an hour minimum sitting in traffic on 2 lane roads that were never intended to serve so many vehicles.

Many are leaving the area entirely, and I don't blame them. We're going to be a community of rich people with nobody to do any actual work. That's not going to end well at all. And the biggest rub, if there's no servers or service industry workers, tourism is toast. So all these STRs will be worthless and it's by their own doing.
There was a fairly extensive WSJ article documenting Boise's rise as a "Zoomtown" and its currently leveling and expected fall in prices. I expect Traverse City is the same dealo. It is quite the thing that you snuck in before all of this bullshit. I mean, you're bitching about the outsider fuckery (which is retarded, I'm not fucking paying $500 for a VRBO near TC, lovely though it might be) but at the same time they are driving the equity in your concrete bunker with donkey dick watchtower through the roof.

IDK. The wifepiece and I are fans of NOLA for the food and the oldness. In the midst of all of this zaniness we found a 500 sq. foot room at a French Quarter Hyatt for $161/nt over Thanksgiving week. In the post-Covid hotel apocalypse, that is free.com
My best friend just went out there to try and "invest" in his next place to stay and work remote... he did pretty well by buying in the outskirts of Austin for 230k... and having a $1200 mortgage. however... he was pretty :disgust: with the level of dirt/poverty/crime over in NOLA and changed his mind.

He just came back after a 8 day trip where he toured places with a RE Agent.... Is that :fakenews: or is it like French quarter or bust out there?

Btw I couldn't ever figure out why NOLA costs way more to fly to than NY and Hawaii for me. Every time I thought "id like to pay a visit" I realize its $550-800 RT per person and that sours real fast.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:05 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:05 pm

There was a fairly extensive WSJ article documenting Boise's rise as a "Zoomtown" and its currently leveling and expected fall in prices. I expect Traverse City is the same dealo. It is quite the thing that you snuck in before all of this bullshit. I mean, you're bitching about the outsider fuckery (which is retarded, I'm not fucking paying $500 for a VRBO near TC, lovely though it might be) but at the same time they are driving the equity in your concrete bunker with donkey dick watchtower through the roof.

IDK. The wifepiece and I are fans of NOLA for the food and the oldness. In the midst of all of this zaniness we found a 500 sq. foot room at a French Quarter Hyatt for $161/nt over Thanksgiving week. In the post-Covid hotel apocalypse, that is free.com
My best friend just went out there to try and "invest" in his next place to stay and work remote... he did pretty well by buying in the outskirts of Austin for 230k... and having a $1200 mortgage. however... he was pretty :disgust: with the level of dirt/poverty/crime over in NOLA and changed his mind.

He just came back after a 8 day trip where he toured places with a RE Agent.... Is that :fakenews: or is it like French quarter or bust out there?

Btw I couldn't ever figure out why NOLA costs way more to fly to than NY and Hawaii for me. Every time I thought "id like to pay a visit" I realize its $550-800 RT per person and that sours real fast.
I would not live full time in NOLA, or anyplace else in Louisiana because of the insufferable heat PLUS humidity. French Quarter is actually too touristy and has no parking/garages unless super $$$$...would not live there. Most residents live in the burbs.....Metaire and the like. Houses that look like you would expect your NOLA house to look be found in the Irish Channel and the Garden District and a few other areas which are SIMILAR to the FQuarter. Also right next to the FQ is Marigy Treme which I would consider. The reality is a lot of NOLA proper is Johnny P or Griff living.....short on car guy homes.

I like to visit. Great bars and restaurants, great music. I don't consider it any "grittier" San Francisco, but there are obviously parts to be avoided. If you feel it is your vested right as an American to walk around drunk at 1 a.m. with a $15,000 watch unmolested, it may not be for you. The food is without parallel in America, NY and SF included, IMHO.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16800
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

Desertbreh wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:23 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:05 pm

My best friend just went out there to try and "invest" in his next place to stay and work remote... he did pretty well by buying in the outskirts of Austin for 230k... and having a $1200 mortgage. however... he was pretty :disgust: with the level of dirt/poverty/crime over in NOLA and changed his mind.

He just came back after a 8 day trip where he toured places with a RE Agent.... Is that :fakenews: or is it like French quarter or bust out there?

Btw I couldn't ever figure out why NOLA costs way more to fly to than NY and Hawaii for me. Every time I thought "id like to pay a visit" I realize its $550-800 RT per person and that sours real fast.
I would not live full time in NOLA, or anyplace else in Louisiana because of the insufferable heat PLUS humidity. French Quarter is actually too touristy and has no parking/garages unless super $$$$...would not live there. Most residents live in the burbs.....Metaire and the like. Houses that look like you would expect your NOLA house to look be found in the Irish Channel and the Garden District and a few other areas which are SIMILAR to the FQuarter. Also right next to the FQ is Marigy Treme which I would consider. The reality is a lot of NOLA proper is Johnny P or Griff living.....short on car guy homes.

I like to visit. Great bars and restaurants, great music. I don't consider it any "grittier" than San Francisco, but there are obviously parts to be avoided. If you feel it is your vested right as an American to walk around drunk at 1 a.m. with a $15,000 watch unmolested, it may not be for you. The food is without parallel in America, NY and SF included, IMHO.
Quoted for excellence
Last edited by Desertbreh on Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
Post Reply