2021 Automotive market thread

Brothers of brub and brap, this is your safe space.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

D Griff wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:29 pm
Tarspin wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:08 am Speaking of 2021 Automotive Market, my dudes at https://www.canadadrives.ca/ are picking my car up in the next two hours. $28,500 is HOPEFULLY coming my way for it, and I'm sitting on $2k from used aftermarket car part sales to round it up nicely. A car that I paid $42k plus taxes for 5 yrs ago. The mileage shows 149,700km, a threshold just short of beater status and has a $6700 rock damage claim tagged to it. I can't see the damage on the carfax I paid for, but it shows up in their records apparently, so it's there..... This is :mindblown:

What's weird, is that nobody came to see the car when I had it posted for just under $30k for the last 2 weeks. Who's going to buy it for $28500 + new windshield + details + resale markup?
For whatever reason (there are some legitimate ones), :dillerman: can just move cars sooo much easier. I was :mindblown: at the ease of selling my :poorvette: to be honest, it is generally garbage selling a car privately.
I guess there's the 7 day return policy that I could never offer. People are :derps: , it is the same garbage and I don't think anyone's going to bring a car back unless it's something they can detect during a test drive. My sale came with a B2B VW warranty, still just *crickets* and low-ballers offering 24k, which is what it should sell for.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Yea I mentioned this before since before the Covid days when carmax was moving a $28k 2 door soft top wrangler with a. 25k msrp and 50k miles.
I think there are a lot of inept and stupid people willing to get raked over the coals. It’s the only reasonable conclusion I can come to.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Buying from a :dillerman: has benefits, depending on the :dillerman:

Dropping 5-6figures in hard earned cash (or loan) to some random dude selling a vehicle on craigslist or FBM is nerve racking. We do the best we can to evaluate a car, the owner, the car's history, etc but 99% of the buying population either can't do that or isn't comfortable doing so. An established :dillerman: somewhat filters out the crap and gives some piece of mind that the vehicle you're buying isn't a complete pile of shit. They can offer a warranty or at very minimum a place a buyer can bring the car back to to fix issues or whatever. It's piece of mind that costs paying more for a vehicle.

I may never buy another used vehicle again :doe: because sellers seem to be getting worse and worse. So :dillerman: lyfe may be it.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
D Griff
Trollistrator
Trollistrator
Posts: 28784
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:49 am
Drives: Bicycles/Two Feet

Detroit wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:58 pm Buying from a :dillerman: has benefits, depending on the :dillerman:

Dropping 5-6figures in hard earned cash (or loan) to some random dude selling a vehicle on craigslist or FBM is nerve racking. We do the best we can to evaluate a car, the owner, the car's history, etc but 99% of the buying population either can't do that or isn't comfortable doing so. An established :dillerman: somewhat filters out the crap and gives some piece of mind that the vehicle you're buying isn't a complete pile of shit. They can offer a warranty or at very minimum a place a buyer can bring the car back to to fix issues or whatever. It's piece of mind that costs paying more for a vehicle.

I may never buy another used vehicle again :doe: because sellers seem to be getting worse and worse. So :dillerman: lyfe may be it.
:dat:

I also think (and this sort of echoes Max's point about people being not smart and/or lazy) the fact that the 'vana, :dilerman: , whatever corp. selling a car can offer financing really moves the needle. Your average :derp: either has shit credit or has no idea it's as simple as filling out a form online and getting a check to buy/self finance a car. They can cluelessly walk into a :dillerman: or isit carscanada.com or carvana.com or whatever and just put in a credit card and it shows up. It IS more convenient and there are fewer hurdles, even if those hurdles are pretty dang easy to overcome to save thousands.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

https://www.autonews.com/retail/used-ve ... -heres-why

Looks like my “friends” at kpmg are starting to call things down … interesting to note the tax season comment. I’ll be focused on offing the Tessie by then.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:40 am https://www.autonews.com/retail/used-ve ... -heres-why

Looks like my “friends” at kpmg are starting to call things down … interesting to note the tax season comment. I’ll be focused on offing the Tessie by then.
I'd need a :member: ship to read the article. :wat: does it say?
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:51 am
max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:40 am https://www.autonews.com/retail/used-ve ... -heres-why

Looks like my “friends” at kpmg are starting to call things down … interesting to note the tax season comment. I’ll be focused on offing the Tessie by then.
I'd need a :member: ship to read the article. :wat: does it say?
Well crap…

Essentially they are predicting a 25-30% decline in used pricing before 22 is done. Still higher than normal but the next few months will be the last hurrah
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

The used-car market has historically been closely correlated with the new-car market, KPMG global head of automotive Gary Silberg told Automotive News on Monday. But used-vehicle prices are up 42 percent over January 2020 levels, while new-vehicle prices have only risen about 12 percent, KPMG said in a white paper released Tuesday.
“Whatever path the new-car market takes to a ‘new normal,’ used-car prices will eventually return to the traditional relationship with new-vehicle prices,” KPMG wrote in the white paper. “In other words, a 20 to 30 percent plunge in used-vehicle prices is in the cards.”
[…]
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:10 am The used-car market has historically been closely correlated with the new-car market, KPMG global head of automotive Gary Silberg told Automotive News on Monday. But used-vehicle prices are up 42 percent over January 2020 levels, while new-vehicle prices have only risen about 12 percent, KPMG said in a white paper released Tuesday.
“Whatever path the new-car market takes to a ‘new normal,’ used-car prices will eventually return to the traditional relationship with new-vehicle prices,” KPMG wrote in the white paper. “In other words, a 20 to 30 percent plunge in used-vehicle prices is in the cards.”
[…]
Yeah man, I'm actually more surprised that manufacturers haven't raised MSRP more then is typical YOY. Someone is doing the :math: and recognizes that buyers are at the limits of their buying power, or something else entirely. Would be an interesting story if MSRPs were the the moving target.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:51 am
max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:40 am https://www.autonews.com/retail/used-ve ... -heres-why

Looks like my “friends” at kpmg are starting to call things down … interesting to note the tax season comment. I’ll be focused on offing the Tessie by then.
I'd need a :member: ship to read the article. :wat: does it say?
Basically that used car values are gonna tank and tank hard. The tax comment comes around timing that people with tax refunds will be looking to spend it on cars that will need to be used as new inventory builds in Q1. Basically, they're forecasting the tank in used car values to be mid-year.

They also think that new inventory will be matching demand in Q4 next year, AKA fully back to normal.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

Detroit wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:44 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:51 am

I'd need a :member: ship to read the article. :wat: does it say?
Basically that used car values are gonna tank and tank hard. The tax comment comes around timing that people with tax refunds will be looking to spend it on cars that will need to be used as new inventory builds in Q1. Basically, they're forecasting the tank in used car values to be mid-year.

They also think that new inventory will be matching demand in Q4 next year, AKA fully back to normal.
:thankyou:

That cucktrek is going to sell for $38k + tax and rape fees LOL
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

Max, are you experiencing heightened supply chain prices at the component level?
User avatar
SAWCE
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 21763
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:26 pm
Drives: Ebombtra
Location: The mountains

Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:50 am Max, are you experiencing heightened supply chain prices at the component level?
I'm glad I'm not in that industry any more. Even back in April 2019 when I got out we were already seeing price hikes and 60+week lead times. Any orders that came in from our customers that didn't have a government priority rating was basically SOL.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:50 am Max, are you experiencing heightened supply chain prices at the component level?
Absolutely it’s a bloodbath. Adjusting msrps to compensate
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:29 am
max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:10 am The used-car market has historically been closely correlated with the new-car market, KPMG global head of automotive Gary Silberg told Automotive News on Monday. But used-vehicle prices are up 42 percent over January 2020 levels, while new-vehicle prices have only risen about 12 percent, KPMG said in a white paper released Tuesday.
“Whatever path the new-car market takes to a ‘new normal,’ used-car prices will eventually return to the traditional relationship with new-vehicle prices,” KPMG wrote in the white paper. “In other words, a 20 to 30 percent plunge in used-vehicle prices is in the cards.”
[…]
Yeah man, I'm actually more surprised that manufacturers haven't raised MSRP more then is typical YOY. Someone is doing the :math: and recognizes that buyers are at the limits of their buying power, or something else entirely. Would be an interesting story if MSRPs were the the moving target.
Once you raise the MSRP, you can't lower it, you can only add incentives to discount off it. MSRP increases are thus very calculated and restrained...especially since there's a lot of cost for incentives baked into the MSRP already. Yes, MSRPs are already higher to pay for incentives to move units. It's ridiculous, but has been the case for a while.

So right now with no discounts required to move units, MSRP is wildly profitable and there's no need to go crazy raising them. Cost increases are possible to absorb within reason In the long run when things go back to normal (and THEY WILL), higher than necessary MSRPs will just hurt, especially when you factor in leasing.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:29 am
max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:10 am The used-car market has historically been closely correlated with the new-car market, KPMG global head of automotive Gary Silberg told Automotive News on Monday. But used-vehicle prices are up 42 percent over January 2020 levels, while new-vehicle prices have only risen about 12 percent, KPMG said in a white paper released Tuesday.
“Whatever path the new-car market takes to a ‘new normal,’ used-car prices will eventually return to the traditional relationship with new-vehicle prices,” KPMG wrote in the white paper. “In other words, a 20 to 30 percent plunge in used-vehicle prices is in the cards.”
[…]
Yeah man, I'm actually more surprised that manufacturers haven't raised MSRP more then is typical YOY. Someone is doing the :math: and recognizes that buyers are at the limits of their buying power, or something else entirely. Would be an interesting story if MSRPs were the the moving target.
They have gone up substantially for ex new tundra is about 20% more depending on trim.

Some oems used to discount 10-20-30% off msrp on the regular. So I never see the msrps as real prices anyways. They are never reflective of true vehicle values. I.e go and buy a gt3 at msrp or a g63 amg.

Then try and do the same with Mitsubishi Outlander.

That said I don’t think there is much room for them to keep going up. Average new car price is a better indicator … that’s up significantly.

As soon as used prices drop and trade in values follow this whole card house will tumble. It’ll be a heinous bloodbath for the oems who pretend like they own the market now and will “just scale back supply to keep prices high” . Good luck trying to move a new F150 at 70k when the customer is 30k In the hole.

That won’t happen… what’s happening to market now is completely out of the oems control and it shows. Otherwise they would have simply doubled their output to match demand and we wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with.
Last edited by max225 on Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:31 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:50 am Max, are you experiencing heightened supply chain prices at the component level?
Absolutely it’s a bloodbath. Adjusting msrps to compensate
:ohdang: , no going back now
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

Detroit wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:53 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:29 am

Yeah man, I'm actually more surprised that manufacturers haven't raised MSRP more then is typical YOY. Someone is doing the :math: and recognizes that buyers are at the limits of their buying power, or something else entirely. Would be an interesting story if MSRPs were the the moving target.
Once you raise the MSRP, you can't lower it, you can only add incentives to discount off it. MSRP increases are thus very calculated and restrained...especially since there's a lot of cost for incentives baked into the MSRP already. Yes, MSRPs are already higher to pay for incentives to move units. It's ridiculous, but has been the case for a while.

So right now with no discounts required to move units, MSRP is wildly profitable and there's no need to go crazy raising them. Cost increases are possible to absorb within reason In the long run when things go back to normal (and THEY WILL), higher than necessary MSRPs will just hurt, especially when you factor in leasing.
Man, that's a lot of moving pieces!
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:10 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:29 am

Yeah man, I'm actually more surprised that manufacturers haven't raised MSRP more then is typical YOY. Someone is doing the :math: and recognizes that buyers are at the limits of their buying power, or something else entirely. Would be an interesting story if MSRPs were the the moving target.
They have gone up substantially for ex new tundra is about 20% more depending on trim.

Some oems used to discount 10-20-30% off msrp on the regular. So I never see the msrps as real prices anyways. They are never reflective of true vehicle values. I.e go and buy a gt3 at msrp or a g63 amg.

Then try and do the same with Mitsubishi Outlander.

That said I don’t think there is much room for them to keep going up. Average new car price is a better indicator … that’s up significantly.

As soon as used prices drop and trade in values follow this whole card house will tumble. It’ll be a heinous bloodbath for the oems who pretend like they own the market now and will “just scale back supply to keep prices high” . Good luck trying to move a new F150 at 70k when the customer is 30k In the hole.

That won’t happen… what’s happening to market now is completely out of the oems control and it shows. Otherwise they would have simply doubled their output to match demand and we wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with.
:dat: :dat: :dat: :dat: on all counts. It's going to get ugly because OEMs will be producing at MAX capacity for as long as possible and completely ignore anything less until we're back to $10k+ on the hood of all F-150's, etc.

Used car purchases right now will be the most screwed. Followed by anyone paying over MSRP for anything new. Followed by people paying MSRP for vehicles that have traditionally high incentives (and thus crap resale).

It's why I advocate for only buying new models that have traditionally strong residuals right now. And even then, I'm nervous (personally concerned the 4R is going to tank as soon as the new model launches). Any purchase right now should be viewed only as a 3-5+ year commitment. Short term gains will be rare beyond 3 months from now.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:12 am
Detroit wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:53 am
Once you raise the MSRP, you can't lower it, you can only add incentives to discount off it. MSRP increases are thus very calculated and restrained...especially since there's a lot of cost for incentives baked into the MSRP already. Yes, MSRPs are already higher to pay for incentives to move units. It's ridiculous, but has been the case for a while.

So right now with no discounts required to move units, MSRP is wildly profitable and there's no need to go crazy raising them. Cost increases are possible to absorb within reason In the long run when things go back to normal (and THEY WILL), higher than necessary MSRPs will just hurt, especially when you factor in leasing.
Man, that's a lot of moving pieces!
Yea, it sucks. I don't miss that job at all.

We had to raise the AVG MSRP of the 2018 Colorado by $1k to pay for increased incentives to combat the Ranger and Gladiator launch. Customers paid the same at the end of the day, but felt like they were getting a better deal with discounts...a common lever to throw in the face of new competition.

And since it was an average increase, most of the increase went to high trims like the ZR2 because people tend to be less price sensitive there. So like the base went up by <$100 (to maintain a cheap advertised starting price), LT up $250, Z71 up $300, ZR2 up $2k, etc.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

Detroit wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:02 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:10 am

They have gone up substantially for ex new tundra is about 20% more depending on trim.

Some oems used to discount 10-20-30% off msrp on the regular. So I never see the msrps as real prices anyways. They are never reflective of true vehicle values. I.e go and buy a gt3 at msrp or a g63 amg.

Then try and do the same with Mitsubishi Outlander.

That said I don’t think there is much room for them to keep going up. Average new car price is a better indicator … that’s up significantly.

As soon as used prices drop and trade in values follow this whole card house will tumble. It’ll be a heinous bloodbath for the oems who pretend like they own the market now and will “just scale back supply to keep prices high” . Good luck trying to move a new F150 at 70k when the customer is 30k In the hole.

That won’t happen… what’s happening to market now is completely out of the oems control and it shows. Otherwise they would have simply doubled their output to match demand and we wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with.
:dat: :dat: :dat: :dat: on all counts. It's going to get ugly because OEMs will be producing at MAX capacity for as long as possible and completely ignore anything less until we're back to $10k+ on the hood of all F-150's, etc.

Used car purchases right now will be the most screwed. Followed by anyone paying over MSRP for anything new. Followed by people paying MSRP for vehicles that have traditionally high incentives (and thus crap resale).

It's why I advocate for only buying new models that have traditionally strong residuals right now. And even then, I'm nervous (personally concerned the 4R is going to tank as soon as the new model launches). Any purchase right now should be viewed only as a 3-5+ year commitment. Short term gains will be rare beyond 3 months from now.
Curious to see some epic :dills: on fun things in 3 to 5 yrs. Maybe I'll land a cheap GR86 or something. :like:
User avatar
Tar
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 14126
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
Location: Canuckistan

Detroit wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:06 pm
Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:12 am

Man, that's a lot of moving pieces!
Yea, it sucks. I don't miss that job at all.

We had to raise the AVG MSRP of the 2018 Colorado by $1k to pay for increased incentives to combat the Ranger and Gladiator launch. Customers paid the same at the end of the day, but felt like they were getting a better deal with discounts...a common lever to throw in the face of new competition.

And since it was an average increase, most of the increase went to high trims like the ZR2 because people tend to be less price sensitive there. So like the base went up by <$100 (to maintain a cheap advertised starting price), LT up $250, Z71 up $300, ZR2 up $2k, etc.
Keeping the bottom trim at low levels is a smart move. I agree with that logic.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42430
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

I still don't understand how the Gladiator is selling at 45-65k whereas others are literally 8-12k below that. But I think all of it is a blip on the radar. 2021 will go down in history as one of the strangest automotive pricing years in history.

I :member: people like :waxer: who REFUSED TO PAY MSRP or A PENNY OVER. Which is bizarre AF to me. If everyone is asking 100k over msrp on a nice porsche and you're getting it at sticker you're getting a STEAL. VS say buying one that no one wants at 5k off sticker.

A lot of people do very inefficient things with money. But that's nothing new.
User avatar
Huckleberry
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Senior Chief Patty Officer
Posts: 2413
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
Drives: 2004 GTO
Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.

Detroit wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:53 am
Tarspin wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:29 am

Yeah man, I'm actually more surprised that manufacturers haven't raised MSRP more then is typical YOY. Someone is doing the :math: and recognizes that buyers are at the limits of their buying power, or something else entirely. Would be an interesting story if MSRPs were the the moving target.
Once you raise the MSRP, you can't lower it, you can only add incentives to discount off it. MSRP increases are thus very calculated and restrained...especially since there's a lot of cost for incentives baked into the MSRP already. Yes, MSRPs are already higher to pay for incentives to move units. It's ridiculous, but has been the case for a while.

So right now with no discounts required to move units, MSRP is wildly profitable and there's no need to go crazy raising them. Cost increases are possible to absorb within reason In the long run when things go back to normal (and THEY WILL), higher than necessary MSRPs will just hurt, especially when you factor in leasing.
2006 GTO disagrees.

2004 MSRP: $31,795
2005 MSRP: $32,295
2006 MSRP: $31,290
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Huckleberry wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:56 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:53 am
Once you raise the MSRP, you can't lower it, you can only add incentives to discount off it. MSRP increases are thus very calculated and restrained...especially since there's a lot of cost for incentives baked into the MSRP already. Yes, MSRPs are already higher to pay for incentives to move units. It's ridiculous, but has been the case for a while.

So right now with no discounts required to move units, MSRP is wildly profitable and there's no need to go crazy raising them. Cost increases are possible to absorb within reason In the long run when things go back to normal (and THEY WILL), higher than necessary MSRPs will just hurt, especially when you factor in leasing.
2006 GTO disagrees.

2004 MSRP: $31,795
2005 MSRP: $32,295
2006 MSRP: $31,290
Well, trying to fix sales flops not withstanding, the GENERAL rule of thumb is you don't reduce MSRPs so you don't piss off existing owners
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
Post Reply