You don't know a single person? Tons of prominent democrats said they didn't trust the vaccine until it was politically convenient for them to do sotroyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:43 pmThere's obviously no way to test that, but this is where I think you're entirelyMrH42 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:39 pm I think it would swing either direction too, btw, depending on who is in the white house. If Trump had won, and was pushing the vaccine, I think we would see the opposite, with fewer democrats on average getting vaccinated than Republicunts. That's the problem. It's being politicized. But again, it's a weak correlation.
I don't know a single person who would not get vaccinated under Trump, assuming similar levels of documented efficacy/safety. Only one side thinks that facts are up for debate.
I know many people who were hesitant or simply refuse under Biden, because they don't trust scientists more than politicians.
OT XXX: COVID Off Topic
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My point was that, even in that same poll, voting affiliation is MUCH stronger than generic political affiliation. Many people claim to be Independents but then vote straight R their entire lives... see "Libertarian" for further reference.MrH42 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:43 pmSelf reported party affiliation and vaccination claim introduces a big polling bias, but yes, that tells us that whether or not you're a democrat is a bigger indicator than whether or not you're a republican.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:40 pm I know that you want to pull apart some of these stats, and that's fine. I assume you're looking at something like this NBC poll?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277514
Where these are the self-reported party affiliations of adults who claim to be vaccinated:
Democrats: 88 percent
Independents: 60 percent
Republicunts: 55 percent
That's why you say Democrat or Not Democrat is the real question, right?
Setting aside the issues with all of this being self-reported, the same poll showed a much more stark contrast in (again, self-reported) voting:
Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent
What data are you using to conclude that Trump voters are vaccinated at the same rates as non-Trump voters?
Either way, political affiliation is not a very strong correlation. So that's the first problem. There are more we can go through: timeline of the data, vaccine rate and death rate correlation, etc
I am guessing that we don't disagree on the vaccines themselves. They fucking work.
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Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I don't know those people for one. More importantly, that's not what they said in general. The typical statement was something like "I won't take a vaccine based solely on Trump's word that it's good" - which is fair, the guy is not even remotely qualified to make that statement.MrH42 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:46 pmYou don't know a single person? Tons of prominent democrats said they didn't trust the vaccine until it was politically convenient for them to do sotroyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:43 pm
There's obviously no way to test that, but this is where I think you're entirely
I don't know a single person who would not get vaccinated under Trump, assuming similar levels of documented efficacy/safety. Only one side thinks that facts are up for debate.
I know many people who were hesitant or simply refuse under Biden, because they don't trust scientists more than politicians.
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I agree in general, they work to some degree.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:46 pmMy point was that, even in that same poll, voting affiliation is MUCH stronger than generic political affiliation. Many people claim to be Independents but then vote straight R their entire lives... see "Libertarian" for further reference.MrH42 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:43 pm
Self reported party affiliation and vaccination claim introduces a big polling bias, but yes, that tells us that whether or not you're a democrat is a bigger indicator than whether or not you're a republican.
Either way, political affiliation is not a very strong correlation. So that's the first problem. There are more we can go through: timeline of the data, vaccine rate and death rate correlation, etc
I am guessing that we don't disagree on the vaccines themselves. They fucking work.
They're not nearly as effective as they were originally pitched, that's for sure. The reality is: the death rate from COVID is relatively low. It more strongly correlates to overall health and age than anything else. I think vaccines for the elderly and at-risk population is a must. Is it really necessary for young, healthy people? I don't think it's doing nearly as much as people think. The death rate was already so low, it's mostly noise.
But the jump from: you voted for Trump, therefore, you didn't get the vaccine, therefore, you are dying more....those are some insane causation claims that are impossible to really show with any statistical significance.
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You should see some level of correlation between death rate and % of population vaccinated if it were truly as effective as you would like to believe:
Similarly, there is even less correlation with masks and lockdowns.
Similarly, there is even less correlation with masks and lockdowns.
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Huh? The poll you were quoting said that 91 percent of Biden voters were vaccinated vs only 50 percent of Trump voters.MrH42 wrote:
But the jump from: you voted for Trump, therefore, you didn't get the vaccine...
How's that a loose correlation? It's nearly fucking double.
The second jump I was hoping we would agree on, but apparently not so that's a question for another day...
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My first dose is second is where its a little more effective, I got a little fever and arm hurted a little. I used an ice cold water bottle to help it at easeSAWCE wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am Finally said “fuck it” and got the vaccine just to avoid hassles with travel and doing things like going to shows. Pfizer dose one on 9/10. Dose two scheduled for 10/1, but I’ll see if I can get it a day early, since I’ll be up in Utah for my mom’s funeral on the First.
No side effects from the first pin. Felt tired the next day, but also have been emotionally drained and had a shit ton going on lately. They put it in my left shoulder. Went to the gym a few hours after the shot and trained shoulders, so not sure if that helped alleviate any short term symptoms by moving the blood in there around a bit.
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muricans literally look like children in European airports when it comes to mask, it's quite embarrassing. But greece was also no different. Turkey (istanbul in particular) everyone wore masks outside since there's a fine for not wearing it outside at all times. I got used to that when I got back in the US last time. But then again, the sidewalks (even in DC) are 4 times as large and social distancing is super easy here in comparison.Desertbreh wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:07 pmThis pisses me off but there's nothing I can do about it. Add it to the list.Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:11 am
Woa, that's very different from flying in the US right now. When I flew to NYC, there was zero checking of COVID tests or even vaccinations. Everyone wears a mask, but there's no real enforcement with HOW It's worn, so you see exposed noses and chin diapers all the time. It's actually rather but pretty much everyone is
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Vaccine is like wearing a kevlar vest or wearing a seatbelt. It eliminates the risk, where the usual outcome is around 98% came out alive/without seeing the ecu for multiple days.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:12 pm Dudebro who made the "stupid" graph combined 2 absolutely true concepts.
Trumpers generally == unvaccinated
Unvaccinated == more likely to die
The point is that the vaccines are still working. NOT PERFECTLY, but you're 1000+% more likely to die without them.
You absolutely could pull the same thing from the beginning of the pandemic in blue areas and see that a lot of people died there... BECAUSE THEY HAD NO VACCINES! It would be proving the same god damn point.
Get a fucking shot.
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On other hand, my mom seems to be the same page with sawce. Basically she's "liberal" with everything about corona but the vaccine, and kinda of against the system, which is the main reason why shes anti-vax. Refuses to eat inside at all costs, because she doesn't like the overuse of the AC (meaning set to 60). Though my mom asked me to take part of her gig in NY, since she has to speak with the multiple restaurants for the tracel groups coming in and has to be vaccinated for that. Even eating out is vaccinated only
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You should look up some old video clips from when seatbelts were becoming mandatory in America. The arguments against seatbelt use sound amazingly familiar. Though, I can't say that there was a widespread movement to use some dumb shit in place of a seatbelt.MexicanYarisTK wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:48 amVaccine is like wearing a kevlar vest or wearing a seatbelt. It eliminates the risk, where the usual outcome is around 98% came out alive/without seeing the ecu for multiple days.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:12 pm Dudebro who made the "stupid" graph combined 2 absolutely true concepts.
Trumpers generally == unvaccinated
Unvaccinated == more likely to die
The point is that the vaccines are still working. NOT PERFECTLY, but you're 1000+% more likely to die without them.
You absolutely could pull the same thing from the beginning of the pandemic in blue areas and see that a lot of people died there... BECAUSE THEY HAD NO VACCINES! It would be proving the same god damn point.
Get a fucking shot.
"See, I chained the bear trap to the seat and it latches onto my ass. If it can hold a bear, it can hold me, and now my upper body is free to move about just as the founding fathers intended."
Argue all you want, but the simple rules here are stay away from name calling and talking shit directly to people, so take it easy on thatMrH42 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:11 pmGod forbid someone is slightly skeptical and wants to understand the data better. That's literally the basis of science. It would do you some good to adopt a little skepticism and desire to understand data. Maybe you wouldn't post such garbage.troyguitar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:03 pm
He's still here, just lurking until he finds something to boast about how much better he is than the rest of us... but he's not the only one actively questioning vaccines here. We have several folks in various states of because, I guess they're smarter than medical researchers?
But fine, I'm a piece of shit for wanting people to believe in science and care about their own survival. Fuck me. I'm the bad guy.
No, you're a piece of shit for dancing on graves and claiming empathy and that you care about people's survival. Don't try and twist your sad little tribalism into altruism. You aren't fooling anyone with that garbage.
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My friend that got the delta got for those exact same symptoms.[user not found] wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:41 pm Rule #1 is don't be a dick.
Anyways, I went and got both a rapid test and a PCR test done today because I've developed a runny nose, sore throat, and dry cough.
Rapid test said negative, they opted to do a PCR swab as well just to be sure.
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Only thing I can’t get behind is masking 2 year olds and over. My daughter is 2 and absolutely hates ANYTHING foreign on her face let alone a mask. If I put a sticker she will cry if she can’t take it off. I think that’s kind of wishful thinking. The proper age I’d say is 4-5, as that’s when kids can actually communicate their needs and whatnot better.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
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my cousin is the complete opposite, she's 3.5, went to daycare last summer and literally told maskless kids "are you a dog, cat or bird? put your mask on". But she got it from my uncle, whose pro mask (as he's scared to caught covid) and calls out maskless bystanders to put on their mask. Imagine trying that in the greatest country on earth.razr390 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:30 pm Only thing I can’t get behind is masking 2 year olds and over. My daughter is 2 and absolutely hates ANYTHING foreign on her face let alone a mask. If I put a sticker she will cry if she can’t take it off. I think that’s kind of wishful thinking. The proper age I’d say is 4-5, as that’s when kids can actually communicate their needs and whatnot better.
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Here's an interesting one. Neighbor/friends in their early 60's got vaccinated with Pfizer as soon as they could back in Mar/Apr. They barely go anywhere, just stick around home most of the time. The husband attends mass at the local catholic church every Sunday, has been going since church opened up earlier this year.
He got sick 2 weeks ago, he said it felt like "allergies"...sore throat, sniffles, somewhat tired. He felt better after a few days when his wife came down with what seemed like the same thing...allergies. Well, she didn't get better, and progressively got worse and worse. She lost her sense of taste and smell after a week, got a test on Friday and it's positive. She's not getting better but at least she hasn't gotten much worse in the last week or so. She completely blames her husband going to church and bringing it back, he's actually to her and feels really bad about that likelihood. They both assumed the vaccine would take care of them, but here they are.
He got sick 2 weeks ago, he said it felt like "allergies"...sore throat, sniffles, somewhat tired. He felt better after a few days when his wife came down with what seemed like the same thing...allergies. Well, she didn't get better, and progressively got worse and worse. She lost her sense of taste and smell after a week, got a test on Friday and it's positive. She's not getting better but at least she hasn't gotten much worse in the last week or so. She completely blames her husband going to church and bringing it back, he's actually to her and feels really bad about that likelihood. They both assumed the vaccine would take care of them, but here they are.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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My AA sponsor and his wife both got breakthrough 'VID (both had Pfizer jabs). She was hospitalized (Mostly due to super high sugar and super low O2), he got sick as a dog and could barely move but ended up getting straightened right out with the Monoclonal Antibody treatment. I had been in a small room with him 2 days before he showed symptoms. The previous week we were in the same room with a dude who, a few days later, tested positive but was asymptomatic. We think he spread it but cannot be sure.
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Seems like he couldn’t pray the ‘vid awayDetroit wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:28 pm Here's an interesting one. Neighbor/friends in their early 60's got vaccinated with Pfizer as soon as they could back in Mar/Apr. They barely go anywhere, just stick around home most of the time. The husband attends mass at the local catholic church every Sunday, has been going since church opened up earlier this year.
He got sick 2 weeks ago, he said it felt like "allergies"...sore throat, sniffles, somewhat tired. He felt better after a few days when his wife came down with what seemed like the same thing...allergies. Well, she didn't get better, and progressively got worse and worse. She lost her sense of taste and smell after a week, got a test on Friday and it's positive. She's not getting better but at least she hasn't gotten much worse in the last week or so. She completely blames her husband going to church and bringing it back, he's actually to her and feels really bad about that likelihood. They both assumed the vaccine would take care of them, but here they are.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:05 pm DFD. The forum where everybody makes the same choices and then tells anybody trying to join the club that they are the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.
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Interesting you say that, I know some people who goes to concerts left and right, vaxxed or not. Even a nurse that went to lollapalooza and this local music festival But that being said, most of the people who have gotten their second vax so far was before delta was even in the picture. I reunited with another friend here in VA, she's a workaholic, doesn't really socialize, party, etc. We went into the market and I asked her if she brought a mask. She replied, whats the point of the vaccination then (she was technically forced to get vaccinated so she can keep her job that she loves). I got vaxxed for the peace of mind, not necessarily mean I can do whatever the fuck I want. In VA you don't have to rock a mask indoors if you're fully vaccinated nor have symptoms, but lot of people here rock masks indoors. In DC, it's mandatory indoors, some concert venues ask for proof of vaccination, etc. While the rest of the bars is or they think it won't be bad as it used to be.Detroit wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:28 pm Here's an interesting one. Neighbor/friends in their early 60's got vaccinated with Pfizer as soon as they could back in Mar/Apr. They barely go anywhere, just stick around home most of the time. The husband attends mass at the local catholic church every Sunday, has been going since church opened up earlier this year.
He got sick 2 weeks ago, he said it felt like "allergies"...sore throat, sniffles, somewhat tired. He felt better after a few days when his wife came down with what seemed like the same thing...allergies. Well, she didn't get better, and progressively got worse and worse. She lost her sense of taste and smell after a week, got a test on Friday and it's positive. She's not getting better but at least she hasn't gotten much worse in the last week or so. She completely blames her husband going to church and bringing it back, he's actually to her and feels really bad about that likelihood. They both assumed the vaccine would take care of them, but here they are.
I first may thought that the worst comes to worst of covid with vax, I would've thought only a few would get the luck, but I started to hear more and more. Including what happened to my friend.
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razr390 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:53 pmSeems like he couldn’t pray the ‘vid awayDetroit wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:28 pm Here's an interesting one. Neighbor/friends in their early 60's got vaccinated with Pfizer as soon as they could back in Mar/Apr. They barely go anywhere, just stick around home most of the time. The husband attends mass at the local catholic church every Sunday, has been going since church opened up earlier this year.
He got sick 2 weeks ago, he said it felt like "allergies"...sore throat, sniffles, somewhat tired. He felt better after a few days when his wife came down with what seemed like the same thing...allergies. Well, she didn't get better, and progressively got worse and worse. She lost her sense of taste and smell after a week, got a test on Friday and it's positive. She's not getting better but at least she hasn't gotten much worse in the last week or so. She completely blames her husband going to church and bringing it back, he's actually to her and feels really bad about that likelihood. They both assumed the vaccine would take care of them, but here they are.