DYELB: The Gainz Train

Health, fitness, and nutrition freaks, lets see those gainz.
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D Griff wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:43 am
SAWCE wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:02 am

Generally, yes. I couldn’t believe how high my sperm count was when I got tested. I’ve been on 750mg/week of just test, and over a gram a week when you consider other anabolics I was taking with it for a few years now, minus a few 8-10 week breaks I took, and my sperm count was over the normal range with motility at the high end of the normal range :lol: I’m built to breed.
90% of this shit is just pure luck :lolol: Like Eric always says, the key to a pregnancy is a pack of Marlboro reds and a bottle of tekillya.
Also helps to get fired!
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coogles wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:07 pm
D Griff wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:42 am Thanks for the pro tips, boys.

Interesting points overall. My sleep is generally pretty good, I go to bed early (like 9-10) and get +/- 7 hours. Alcohol DOES trash my sleep and make me feel bad, even a couple of beers can do this, which is one reason why I don't really casually have a couple of beers on a weeknight or whatever. I don't mind having one night a week of crappy sleep from boozin' but more that that catches up really quickly and is :disgust:

Another thing that's :disgust: is that the urologist stated my T was 'on the lower side of normal but not low enough to consider clomid'. Same guy who said whey protein could be lowering my :jizz: Meanwhile yesterday's chick was adamant that if there was any impact from whey it could be a slight increase.

Anywho, I'm stoked to be trying something different. Hopefully I don't see negative side effects, but it'll be interesting for sure.

@ :sawce: what do you think about a workout plan? Exercise is more important to me than most anything in life (other than maybe friends/family) so I'd like to kind of jump back into lifting head first. I don't think one cardio sesh/week will satiate for me at all, I'm thinking something like three/week cardio and the same for lifting, plus I generally walk the dog daily a few miles. I think I'll just shorten the cardio sessions, currently I average probably two hours, I'll fun for like 60-90 minutes or ride anywhere from 60-six hours. I will probably dump the very long rides other than very occasionally and maybe ride twice/week, do one run/week or something like that depending on my travel schedule.

What's a good program to run for 3X/week lifting? I loved 531 in the past but hurt my back a couple of times, not really super interested in very heavy DL/squats anymore. I can currently DL 255X5 or so which is fine as far as strength goes. I also don't want to do anything crazy leg heavy as I'll likely be cycling for 3-4 hours/week still plus some relaxed commute type riding.
I would think that if you're going to stick with the cardio (which you should), keep it to zone 2. 120-135bpm, mostly nasal breathing, really low stress stuff. It'll allow you to avoid losing the fitness you've worked so hard for, but not put much real stress on the body.
That is a good call, I'm hoping by keeping up decent volume I can maintain the fitness for when this is someday over/given up on. I think pushing sometimes is just fine, but to be fair I pretty much work out 6-7 days a week and go fairly hard on most all of it.
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SAWCE wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:22 pm For 3x a week you have a few options.a you could go full body, provided that none of the days are back to back. In this set up I’d hit every muscle group with two movements and do two working sets for each of those movements. Working sets being taken to absolute failure.

Other option I like is push/pull/legs. In the full body set up you’re doing 12 working sets per week per body part, so you can just transfer that over to the push pull legs and do more movements per body part. So each body part on a ppl spit I would hit with four movements, three working sets each.

A third option is upper, lower, accessory day. Chest, back, and shoulders for upper, quads, glutes, hamstrings for lower, then like calves and arms or something fun for the accessory day. Same volume to start ~12 working sets per muscle group per week.

If you aren’t growing/recovering between sessions I’d lower the volume a little bit to 8-10 working sets per muscle group until you get your recovery better. When/if you hop on the TRT sawce, you could potentially bump that up to 15-20 working sets/week.
Thanks, man! I like the bolded. I will likely do this on a MWF or TTS cadence.
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D Griff wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:28 pm
SAWCE wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:22 pm For 3x a week you have a few options.a you could go full body, provided that none of the days are back to back. In this set up I’d hit every muscle group with two movements and do two working sets for each of those movements. Working sets being taken to absolute failure.

Other option I like is push/pull/legs. In the full body set up you’re doing 12 working sets per week per body part, so you can just transfer that over to the push pull legs and do more movements per body part. So each body part on a ppl spit I would hit with four movements, three working sets each.

A third option is upper, lower, accessory day. Chest, back, and shoulders for upper, quads, glutes, hamstrings for lower, then like calves and arms or something fun for the accessory day. Same volume to start ~12 working sets per muscle group per week.

If you aren’t growing/recovering between sessions I’d lower the volume a little bit to 8-10 working sets per muscle group until you get your recovery better. When/if you hop on the TRT sawce, you could potentially bump that up to 15-20 working sets/week.
Thanks, man! I like the bolded. I will likely do this on a MWF or TTS cadence.
:fuckyeah:
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SAWCE wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:02 am
golftdibrad1 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:29 am

its also great birth control for most low t men :jizz:
Generally, yes. I couldn’t believe how high my sperm count was when I got tested. I’ve been on 750mg/week of just test, and over a gram a week when you consider other anabolics I was taking with it for a few years now, minus a few 8-10 week breaks I took, and my sperm count was over the normal range with motility at the high end of the normal range :lol: I’m built to breed.
yea but you are already a genetic freak
Desertbreh wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:28 pm I'm happy for Brad because nobody jerks it to the Miata harder on this forum and that is the Crown Prince of Miatas.
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golftdibrad1 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:35 am
SAWCE wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:02 am

Generally, yes. I couldn’t believe how high my sperm count was when I got tested. I’ve been on 750mg/week of just test, and over a gram a week when you consider other anabolics I was taking with it for a few years now, minus a few 8-10 week breaks I took, and my sperm count was over the normal range with motility at the high end of the normal range :lol: I’m built to breed.
yea but you are already a genetic freak
:notwrong:
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SAWCE wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:37 pm
D Griff wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:28 pm

Thanks, man! I like the bolded. I will likely do this on a MWF or TTS cadence.
:fuckyeah:
So I did my first 'full body' today. Do you think it matters how much weight the 'working sets' are using? Is there a rep target for working to failure? I was shooting for a weight where I would max out in the 7-10 rep range.

One of my failure exercises was DL, another overhead press. Both are ones where high weight has hurt my back in the past, I'd rather go for failure at a few higher reps, but not sure if there's much of a functional difference.
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D Griff wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:52 pm
SAWCE wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:37 pm

:fuckyeah:
So I did my first 'full body' today. Do you think it matters how much weight the 'working sets' are using? Is there a rep target for working to failure? I was shooting for a weight where I would max out in the 7-10 rep range.

One of my failure exercises was DL, another overhead press. Both are ones where high weight has hurt my back in the past, I'd rather go for failure at a few higher reps, but not sure if there's much of a functional difference.
So this is going to be a personal preference thing.. the :science: shows that there is no difference in hypertrophy from high vs low reps, as long as proximity to failure is equal. As we age, I tend to aim for higher reps to avoid injury.. the downside of higher reps is that they add more overall stress/fatigue that your CNS will need to recover from. You can mitigate that a bit by keeping your lighter warm up sets to low reps. 5-6 should be good, but make sure that they’re very intentional reps since you don’t get as many to practice/warm up with.

I generally use 8-12 as my rep range. I almost never go lower than that. I do sometimes go as high as 20 reps.
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SAWCE wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:08 pm
D Griff wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:52 pm

So I did my first 'full body' today. Do you think it matters how much weight the 'working sets' are using? Is there a rep target for working to failure? I was shooting for a weight where I would max out in the 7-10 rep range.

One of my failure exercises was DL, another overhead press. Both are ones where high weight has hurt my back in the past, I'd rather go for failure at a few higher reps, but not sure if there's much of a functional difference.
So this is going to be a personal preference thing.. the :science: shows that there is no difference in hypertrophy from high vs low reps, as long as proximity to failure is equal. As we age, I tend to aim for higher reps to avoid injury.. the downside of higher reps is that they add more overall stress/fatigue that your CNS will need to recover from. You can mitigate that a bit by keeping your lighter warm up sets to low reps. 5-6 should be good, but make sure that they’re very intentional reps since you don’t get as many to practice/warm up with.

I generally use 8-12 as my rep range. I almost never go lower than that. I do sometimes go as high as 20 reps.
Sweet! That is pretty much in-line with what my body is telling me so it makes sense that the :science: indicates it. I may vary it a bit dependent on exercise as well. For example with leg work I pretty much want to keep the volume as low as possible given I'll still be cycling/running on the off days, so legs are getting hammered just about every day, although perhaps a bit less than they have been over the past few years. So I'll probably shoot for 5-8 reps or so on those movements, more in the 8-12 range for back, chest, and shoulders.
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The best rep range to use is the one you haven't been using. My program switched up from a bunch of 5 rep sets to some sets of up to 40 (!!!), and it was a major plateau-buster for me. I had to really drop the weight at the beginning, obviously, but then over the course of that training cycle the weight I was able to use for the 20 rep sets (final burnout set) started to go up every week through week 8 or 9, then it started to level out. We did 12 weeks and then went back to focusing on 5-8 reps on the lower body work, and the weight I'm able to use has gone up across the board.

Pairing cycling plus weight lifting isn't usually going to work out that well unless the cycling is really low intensity. Cycling is very reliant on force production, unlike running, and so if you're doing 3 full body workouts each week, plus cycling regularly, I think you'll get burned out pretty darn quickly. If cycling is the priority, I'd keep the leg training to 1x per week.
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coogles wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:13 am The best rep range to use is the one you haven't been using. My program switched up from a bunch of 5 rep sets to some sets of up to 40 (!!!), and it was a major plateau-buster for me. I had to really drop the weight at the beginning, obviously, but then over the course of that training cycle the weight I was able to use for the 20 rep sets (final burnout set) started to go up every week through week 8 or 9, then it started to level out. We did 12 weeks and then went back to focusing on 5-8 reps on the lower body work, and the weight I'm able to use has gone up across the board.

Pairing cycling plus weight lifting isn't usually going to work out that well unless the cycling is really low intensity. Cycling is very reliant on force production, unlike running, and so if you're doing 3 full body workouts each week, plus cycling regularly, I think you'll get burned out pretty darn quickly. If cycling is the priority, I'd keep the leg training to 1x per week.
I think that's pretty solid advice. Squats and deads are super import for lots of things including stimulating hormones and stuff.

Of course, see how it goes, but id think that for your goals 2x legs a week could work well too, 1 day being 3x5 heavy squats and 1x5 light deads and the other being 1x5 heavy deads and 3x5 light squats.

Its really going to depend on how well you can recover from that stress and the cycling combined. With your new :jizz: drug regimen your T should pop up so the answer might be, at least at first, quite a lot more than you are used to.
Desertbreh wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:28 pm I'm happy for Brad because nobody jerks it to the Miata harder on this forum and that is the Crown Prince of Miatas.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:20 am
SAWCE wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:08 pm

So this is going to be a personal preference thing.. the :science: shows that there is no difference in hypertrophy from high vs low reps, as long as proximity to failure is equal. As we age, I tend to aim for higher reps to avoid injury.. the downside of higher reps is that they add more overall stress/fatigue that your CNS will need to recover from. You can mitigate that a bit by keeping your lighter warm up sets to low reps. 5-6 should be good, but make sure that they’re very intentional reps since you don’t get as many to practice/warm up with.

I generally use 8-12 as my rep range. I almost never go lower than that. I do sometimes go as high as 20 reps.
Sweet! That is pretty much in-line with what my body is telling me so it makes sense that the :science: indicates it. I may vary it a bit dependent on exercise as well. For example with leg work I pretty much want to keep the volume as low as possible given I'll still be cycling/running on the off days, so legs are getting hammered just about every day, although perhaps a bit less than they have been over the past few years. So I'll probably shoot for 5-8 reps or so on those movements, more in the 8-12 range for back, chest, and shoulders.
I wasn’t thinking about your cycling when I gave my initial volume recommendation… depending on how often/hard you’re going to be cycling, rather than go lower reps on legs, I’d probably start out by dropping to just one all out set to failure each for quads and hamstrings rather than two sets of each to failure. The set will really have to suck ass and push your pain threshold to the limit in order to stimulate growth, but I imagine you’re used to doing that while riding sometimes anyways so you’ll probably be better at it than most people are.
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coogles wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:13 am The best rep range to use is the one you haven't been using. My program switched up from a bunch of 5 rep sets to some sets of up to 40 (!!!), and it was a major plateau-buster for me. I had to really drop the weight at the beginning, obviously, but then over the course of that training cycle the weight I was able to use for the 20 rep sets (final burnout set) started to go up every week through week 8 or 9, then it started to level out. We did 12 weeks and then went back to focusing on 5-8 reps on the lower body work, and the weight I'm able to use has gone up across the board.

Pairing cycling plus weight lifting isn't usually going to work out that well unless the cycling is really low intensity. Cycling is very reliant on force production, unlike running, and so if you're doing 3 full body workouts each week, plus cycling regularly, I think you'll get burned out pretty darn quickly. If cycling is the priority, I'd keep the leg training to 1x per week.
This and everyone's comments, all good feedback, thanks y'all! I actually did have some nice gainz when COVID started and I went from focusing on low rep (531) for a few years to very high rep because I didn't have very heavy weights at home. I think shooting for that mid range (8-12 reps) for now will be great.

I think I'll adjust the leg volume as well, probably do squats one workout, deads one other, and those will be the primary two working sets each week.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:02 pm
coogles wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:13 am The best rep range to use is the one you haven't been using. My program switched up from a bunch of 5 rep sets to some sets of up to 40 (!!!), and it was a major plateau-buster for me. I had to really drop the weight at the beginning, obviously, but then over the course of that training cycle the weight I was able to use for the 20 rep sets (final burnout set) started to go up every week through week 8 or 9, then it started to level out. We did 12 weeks and then went back to focusing on 5-8 reps on the lower body work, and the weight I'm able to use has gone up across the board.

Pairing cycling plus weight lifting isn't usually going to work out that well unless the cycling is really low intensity. Cycling is very reliant on force production, unlike running, and so if you're doing 3 full body workouts each week, plus cycling regularly, I think you'll get burned out pretty darn quickly. If cycling is the priority, I'd keep the leg training to 1x per week.
This and everyone's comments, all good feedback, thanks y'all! I actually did have some nice gainz when COVID started and I went from focusing on low rep (531) for a few years to very high rep because I didn't have very heavy weights at home. I think shooting for that mid range (8-12 reps) for now will be great.

I think I'll adjust the leg volume as well, probably do squats one workout, deads one other, and those will be the primary two working sets each week.
Food for thought, both squats and deads are going to be high CNS fatigue and not necessarily great hypertrophy drivers. If you really love them, have at them.. but if you don’t, I would substitute them for a seated quad extension and a seated hamstring curl if size gainz are your current goal.
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Did my first injection this morning... I was really nervous but it was OK.

My actual first was Friday but we went over to my sister's for dinner and she administered it. She is in nursing school (new career at 36) and my BIL's dad is a large animal vet, so he has actually administered a ton of shots to animals. It was dece having them walk me through the first time.

I need to figure out next week, we are going to Miami for the weekend before my work trip there next week, so I will be out of town Friday-Thursday, I really should bring the medication and administer there but it needs to be refrigerated and I'd need to bring the needles. Normal work trips I can just do it Monday when I leave and Thursday when I get home, so NBD.
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D Griff wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:20 am Did my first injection this morning... I was really nervous but it was OK.

My actual first was Friday but we went over to my sister's for dinner and she administered it. She is in nursing school (new career at 36) and my BIL's dad is a large animal vet, so he has actually administered a ton of shots to animals. It was dece having them walk me through the first time.

I need to figure out next week, we are going to Miami for the weekend before my work trip there next week, so I will be out of town Friday-Thursday, I really should bring the medication and administer there but it needs to be refrigerated and I'd need to bring the needles. Normal work trips I can just do it Monday when I leave and Thursday when I get home, so NBD.
You can grab a little cooler and throw some ice packs in there and toss the medication in with some of your needles. TSA dgaf. I’ve done it before with insulin that I didn’t even have a prescription for. I throw mine in the big cooler I bring all my food with me in, but you can grab something smaller that will fit into your carry on if you don’t want to carry two bags.
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I’m assuming yours is a sub-q injection and you just have little insulin needles, right?
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SAWCE wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:28 am I’m assuming yours is a sub-q injection and you just have little insulin needles, right?
Yep, they're tiny. I will bring it next week in a tiny cooler then. I should see if there's access to fridges/make sure I get hotels that have them.
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Desertbreh wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:28 pm I'm happy for Brad because nobody jerks it to the Miata harder on this forum and that is the Crown Prince of Miatas.
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Speaking of lifting, I've been following @ :sawce: 's plan, full body, two movements per muscle group per lift (3X/week) and two working sets per movement.

It is certainly tiring for some groups. I am wondering exactly what is meant by muscle groups (how small are we going)? I've been basically treating it as shoulders, back, chest, legs are the groups. Am I missing anything here? Should I add in arms as a separate group and do say skullcrushers for Brad and curls for the gurls?
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D Griff wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:58 am Speaking of lifting, I've been following @ :sawce: 's plan, full body, two movements per muscle group per lift (3X/week) and two working sets per movement.

It is certainly tiring for some groups. I am wondering exactly what is meant by muscle groups (how small are we going)? I've been basically treating it as shoulders, back, chest, legs are the groups. Am I missing anything here? Should I add in arms as a separate group and do say skullcrushers for Brad and curls for the gurls?
I would split legs into quads and hamstrings. No compound movement is a great stimulator for both of them due to the bending at both the hip and knee joint. A compound that biases each, plus an isolation movement for each would be great, however you could do a single compound movement that biases the group you prefer, then and isolation for each.

Arms depends on if you care about adding size to them. They’ll get a little stimulus from your pressing and pulling movements for chest/shoulders/back, but if you’re training those bigger movements properly they won’t be providing a ton of stimulus to your biceps or triceps. You could scale the volume there down to one set to failure. They won’t grow as quickly as other parts getting the slightly higher volume, but you can still train them hard enough with a single set to see some growth.

Alternatively you could swap body parts out every few months as you see where you’d like to focus your growth. So maybe spend a few months adding in the quad and hamstring training and leave arms out, then swap and just do two comping movements to maintain your legs and add arms in to starting bringing them up.
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Hope that all makes sense. Been smoking.
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SAWCE wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:27 pm
D Griff wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:58 am Speaking of lifting, I've been following @ :sawce: 's plan, full body, two movements per muscle group per lift (3X/week) and two working sets per movement.

It is certainly tiring for some groups. I am wondering exactly what is meant by muscle groups (how small are we going)? I've been basically treating it as shoulders, back, chest, legs are the groups. Am I missing anything here? Should I add in arms as a separate group and do say skullcrushers for Brad and curls for the gurls?
I would split legs into quads and hamstrings. No compound movement is a great stimulator for both of them due to the bending at both the hip and knee joint. A compound that biases each, plus an isolation movement for each would be great, however you could do a single compound movement that biases the group you prefer, then and isolation for each.

Arms depends on if you care about adding size to them. They’ll get a little stimulus from your pressing and pulling movements for chest/shoulders/back, but if you’re training those bigger movements properly they won’t be providing a ton of stimulus to your biceps or triceps. You could scale the volume there down to one set to failure. They won’t grow as quickly as other parts getting the slightly higher volume, but you can still train them hard enough with a single set to see some growth.

Alternatively you could swap body parts out every few months as you see where you’d like to focus your growth. So maybe spend a few months adding in the quad and hamstring training and leave arms out, then swap and just do two comping movements to maintain your legs and add arms in to starting bringing them up.
:nice: Thanks man, all makes sense.
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D Griff wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:44 am
SAWCE wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:27 pm

I would split legs into quads and hamstrings. No compound movement is a great stimulator for both of them due to the bending at both the hip and knee joint. A compound that biases each, plus an isolation movement for each would be great, however you could do a single compound movement that biases the group you prefer, then and isolation for each.

Arms depends on if you care about adding size to them. They’ll get a little stimulus from your pressing and pulling movements for chest/shoulders/back, but if you’re training those bigger movements properly they won’t be providing a ton of stimulus to your biceps or triceps. You could scale the volume there down to one set to failure. They won’t grow as quickly as other parts getting the slightly higher volume, but you can still train them hard enough with a single set to see some growth.

Alternatively you could swap body parts out every few months as you see where you’d like to focus your growth. So maybe spend a few months adding in the quad and hamstring training and leave arms out, then swap and just do two comping movements to maintain your legs and add arms in to starting bringing them up.
:nice: Thanks man, all makes sense.
Agree with everything except the bolded. Triceps are the primary mover on pressing exercises.
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coogles wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:52 am
D Griff wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:44 am

:nice: Thanks man, all makes sense.
Agree with everything except the bolded. Triceps are the primary mover on pressing exercises.
I think it's a matter of perspective in body building versus power lifting/training. :iono: I am certainly not a body builder, always did power lifting, but I did reach out to :sawce: offline regarding putting on a few pounds of muscle while taking all this hormone stuff for my infertility, a lot of it is just curiosity on if it makes building muscle/strength easier.

I have been doing dips in two of the workouts each week and counting them as one of the chest movements but that is certainly a tri exercise, as are presses like you said.
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