Two things.
1. I think you can upgrade the radio knobs to the rav 4 knobs they are about 30% bigger and snap right on… $30 or so at a stealer but they were back ordered when I tried to do it on my taco. I had the same knob complaint.
2. Does the phone warmer work or does it just warm the phone ?
Grounded to the Ground - Vanilla Cammie Chronicles
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
max225 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:29 am Two things.
1. I think you can upgrade the radio knobs to the rav 4 knobs they are about 30% bigger and snap right on… $30 or so at a stealer but they were back ordered when I tried to do it on my taco. I had the same knob complaint.
2. Does the phone warmer work or does it just warm the phone ?
I think I'm going to do the knob upgrade, I'll see what my dealership says about stock, good tip.
The phone holder has wireless charging, it's pretty vigorous, and usually charges my phone to full within an hour's drive.
Heated steering I don't hate it.
Tar wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:22 pm Evening d00ds, i think I'm going to throw up a Cammie update, got through my first tank of gas and it's a plethora of info which I'm still trying to digest and understand... But in a nutshell I've been getting from 34 to 40 MPGz, with a strategic 40 mile trip that typically proves to be the most efficient for me and would bode well for a hybrid... a whopping 61 MPG for that segment, I was floored. The powertrain feels a little looser and more efficient, and temps are up significantly while burning through the second half of the tank.
More details on all of this as well as some initial quality defects that seem directly related to attaching panels and components to the main body. None of it causes any issues, but I need to get a few pics for the
In4pics for sure. ( didn't realize there was another page).
I noticed the Hyundai Hybrid I had last week's efficiency dropped by 20-30% when it went from 60-80F to 20-30F. Curious if efficiency improves a bit with spring/summer on the way.
Steal them from the factory?Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:27 ammax225 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:29 am Two things.
1. I think you can upgrade the radio knobs to the rav 4 knobs they are about 30% bigger and snap right on… $30 or so at a stealer but they were back ordered when I tried to do it on my taco. I had the same knob complaint.
2. Does the phone warmer work or does it just warm the phone ?
I think I'm going to do the knob upgrade, I'll see what my dealership says about stock, good tip.
The phone holder has wireless charging, it's pretty vigorous, and usually charges my phone to full within an hour's drive.
Heated steering I don't hate it.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
It's honestly a decent looking car! I dig it. Glad it's fitting in well for you and your family.
Also that my ancient 4R has the same gauge cluster screen and infotainment.
Also that my ancient 4R has the same gauge cluster screen and infotainment.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
Thank you. Well you know, two kids, a wife, lots of driving, gas prices threatening to keep going higher... the list goes on. I really have no qualms about buying this car, a 10k add on to my old ride seems like a steal right now, but I'm mainly happy that the wife enjoys being a passenger in it. I feel like I'm well positioned for another 150K miles, there really isn't a better fit in my mind.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
You and I might have sold our vehicles at peak used values.Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:07 amThank you. Well you know, two kids, a wife, lots of driving, gas prices threatening to keep going higher... the list goes on. I really have no qualms about buying this car, a 10k add on to my old ride seems like a steal right now, but I'm mainly happy that the wife enjoys being a passenger in it. I feel like I'm well positioned for another 150K miles, there really isn't a better fit in my mind.
Now you've got a solid transportation foundation that'll last forever, it may give you an opportunity to add some fun at some point perhaps.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
So this is surprising to me, four years into this generation's build, the following glaring defects are still being shipped:
1. Front bumper or hood alignment. A larger gap exists on the passenger side then the drivers side. It's NBD, but gone are the days of 2004-2008 Acura TL build assembly scrutiny in Japanese products.
2. Next up, sunroof alignment. It appears that the driver side sits higher then the passenger side, the stamped hole and part size are clearly a good fit, so it is the mechanism itself that needs to be leveled I think. I'm going to ask if the dealership is comfortable with an adjustment, if not I'll just keep an eye on it.
3. The rear bumper doesn't get cleanly molded, and there are little plastic burrs that project off of the part, they pass inspection and get painted
Obviously , but I'll probably have the sunroof looked at and about the other things. It is a point of interest for our group, as we often criticize Tesla and other for building sub-perfection, but Yoda does the same kind of shit where it doesn't count. My R came out pretty clean, and like I said earlier, the peak build quality in my mind ended in 2008.
1. Front bumper or hood alignment. A larger gap exists on the passenger side then the drivers side. It's NBD, but gone are the days of 2004-2008 Acura TL build assembly scrutiny in Japanese products.
2. Next up, sunroof alignment. It appears that the driver side sits higher then the passenger side, the stamped hole and part size are clearly a good fit, so it is the mechanism itself that needs to be leveled I think. I'm going to ask if the dealership is comfortable with an adjustment, if not I'll just keep an eye on it.
3. The rear bumper doesn't get cleanly molded, and there are little plastic burrs that project off of the part, they pass inspection and get painted
Obviously , but I'll probably have the sunroof looked at and about the other things. It is a point of interest for our group, as we often criticize Tesla and other for building sub-perfection, but Yoda does the same kind of shit where it doesn't count. My R came out pretty clean, and like I said earlier, the peak build quality in my mind ended in 2008.
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
Oh yeah, that was epic timing, my old car is still posted for sale two or three months later. sucks to beDetroit wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:24 amYou and I might have sold our vehicles at peak used values.Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:07 am
Thank you. Well you know, two kids, a wife, lots of driving, gas prices threatening to keep going higher... the list goes on. I really have no qualms about buying this car, a 10k add on to my old ride seems like a steal right now, but I'm mainly happy that the wife enjoys being a passenger in it. I feel like I'm well positioned for another 150K miles, there really isn't a better fit in my mind.
Now you've got a solid transportation foundation that'll last forever, it may give you an opportunity to add some fun at some point perhaps.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
I actually think it has more to do with build location than OEM. My 4R built in Japan is flawless. I can't find any issues with it, even going through with a fine tooth comb. It's remarkable.Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:41 am So this is surprising to me, four years into this generation's build, the following glaring defects are still being shipped:
1. Front bumper or hood alignment. A larger gap exists on the passenger side then the drivers side. It's NBD, but gone are the days of 2004-2008 Acura TL build assembly scrutiny in Japanese products.
2. Next up, sunroof alignment. It appears that the driver side sits higher then the passenger side, the stamped hole and part size are clearly a good fit, so it is the mechanism itself that needs to be leveled I think. I'm going to ask if the dealership is comfortable with an adjustment, if not I'll just keep an eye on it.
3. The rear bumper doesn't get cleanly molded, and there are little plastic burrs that project off of the part, they pass inspection and get painted
Obviously , but I'll probably have the sunroof looked at and about the other things. It is a point of interest for our group, as we often criticize Tesla and other for building sub-perfection, but Yoda does the same kind of shit where it doesn't count. My R came out pretty clean, and like I said earlier, the peak build quality in my mind ended in 2008.
We had some friends up this past weekend who have a 2021 Subaru Impreza. They were complaining about how poorly it's built and that they just aren't very happy with it. Rattles from the glove box, exterior trim pieces mis-aligned, wind noise from the sunroof (that's sticking up like yours). Found it odd because our Cucktrek was the opposite, extremely well built overall and we liked it quite a bit with no issues. Super weird because they're the same vehicle essentially, right?
Impreza is built in Indiana (like the Camry) and the Cucktrek was built in Japan.
This sparked an interesting conversation. Our buddy works for a Japanese industrial company, and he said a few years ago he was invited to a plant in Japan to check out their operations. As he was walking through, he noticed a dude packing wheel bearings, and he was doing it with meticulous detail. He said the dude was in an impeccably white suit, standing on a mat over a perfectly clean work surface that looked like the guy was performing surgery on a human or something, just packing bearings. Then a year later, by chance, he was at a US facility producing similar equipment and he happened to notice that wheel bearing packing was being done by an overweight dude sitting on a worn-out chair, slamming bearings in a packing machine and out ZFG.
Stark contrast in attention to detail, we concluded that the Japanese likely have a much higher standard for work and attention to detail. Which compounds itself when building something as complex as a vehicle.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- max225
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 43008
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
- Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon
My Tacoma was built in Texas …
Seems like more to it than location as far as country, perhaps plant itself ?!
But yea those look like tesla equivalency of issues…. how will you ever live. The sunroof thing would bother me out of all that maybe that can be adjusted easily … as long as they don’t have to tear out the headliner and redo the whole thing ?
In Reality it will be more fucked up in 1 years time and no one will ever care again.
Seems like more to it than location as far as country, perhaps plant itself ?!
But yea those look like tesla equivalency of issues…. how will you ever live. The sunroof thing would bother me out of all that maybe that can be adjusted easily … as long as they don’t have to tear out the headliner and redo the whole thing ?
In Reality it will be more fucked up in 1 years time and no one will ever care again.
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
Detroit wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:01 amI actually think it has more to do with build location than OEM. My 4R built in Japan is flawless. I can't find any issues with it, even going through with a fine tooth comb. It's remarkable.Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:41 am So this is surprising to me, four years into this generation's build, the following glaring defects are still being shipped:
1. Front bumper or hood alignment. A larger gap exists on the passenger side then the drivers side. It's NBD, but gone are the days of 2004-2008 Acura TL build assembly scrutiny in Japanese products.
2. Next up, sunroof alignment. It appears that the driver side sits higher then the passenger side, the stamped hole and part size are clearly a good fit, so it is the mechanism itself that needs to be leveled I think. I'm going to ask if the dealership is comfortable with an adjustment, if not I'll just keep an eye on it.
3. The rear bumper doesn't get cleanly molded, and there are little plastic burrs that project off of the part, they pass inspection and get painted
Obviously , but I'll probably have the sunroof looked at and about the other things. It is a point of interest for our group, as we often criticize Tesla and other for building sub-perfection, but Yoda does the same kind of shit where it doesn't count. My R came out pretty clean, and like I said earlier, the peak build quality in my mind ended in 2008.
We had some friends up this past weekend who have a 2021 Subaru Impreza. They were complaining about how poorly it's built and that they just aren't very happy with it. Rattles from the glove box, exterior trim pieces mis-aligned, wind noise from the sunroof (that's sticking up like yours). Found it odd because our Cucktrek was the opposite, extremely well built overall and we liked it quite a bit with no issues. Super weird because they're the same vehicle essentially, right?
Impreza is built in Indiana (like the Camry) and the Cucktrek was built in Japan.
This sparked an interesting conversation. Our buddy works for a Japanese industrial company, and he said a few years ago he was invited to a plant in Japan to check out their operations. As he was walking through, he noticed a dude packing wheel bearings, and he was doing it with meticulous detail. He said the dude was in an impeccably white suit, standing on a mat over a perfectly clean work surface that looked like the guy was performing surgery on a human or something, just packing bearings. Then a year later, by chance, he was at a US facility producing similar equipment and he happened to notice that wheel bearing packing was being done by an overweight dude sitting on a worn-out chair, slamming bearings in a packing machine and out ZFG.
Stark contrast in attention to detail, we concluded that the Japanese likely have a much higher standard for work and attention to detail. Which compounds itself when building something as complex as a vehicle.
I have no doubt in my mind that your take is accurate, and I knew that going into this purchase. The Camry is a modern day Crown Vic.
Funny thing though, my TL was also build in Indiana I believe. Indiana, Kentucky?
I want to think that the Canadian operations are pretty toite, but who knows. Japan is awesome for that, and Japanese people I deal with are almost always on point, respectful and care about their employer's well being.
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
Yeah exactly, ZOMG, my precious... I cannot live like this.max225 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:07 am My Tacoma was built in Texas …
Seems like more to it than location as far as country, perhaps plant itself ?!
But yea those look like tesla equivalency of issues…. how will you ever live. The sunroof thing would bother me out of all that maybe that can be adjusted easily … as long as they don’t have to tear out the headliner and redo the whole thing ?
In Reality it will be more fucked up in 1 years time and no one will ever care again.
If the roof think has an adjustment knob or whatever, then I'll let them play with it a bit, otherwise I'm just going to leave it until it's a problem. It seals nice, is quiet and operates without any issues RN.
The other stuff is more amusing than irritating. In six years my oldest kid will be learning to drive this thing and will probably crash and write it off like I did to my first car lol
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Oh yea, might be Kentucky. TL would have been built in smaller volume, and possibly with higher attention to detail than Accords. Also, maybe Honda is better in the US?Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:13 amDetroit wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:01 am
I actually think it has more to do with build location than OEM. My 4R built in Japan is flawless. I can't find any issues with it, even going through with a fine tooth comb. It's remarkable.
We had some friends up this past weekend who have a 2021 Subaru Impreza. They were complaining about how poorly it's built and that they just aren't very happy with it. Rattles from the glove box, exterior trim pieces mis-aligned, wind noise from the sunroof (that's sticking up like yours). Found it odd because our Cucktrek was the opposite, extremely well built overall and we liked it quite a bit with no issues. Super weird because they're the same vehicle essentially, right?
Impreza is built in Indiana (like the Camry) and the Cucktrek was built in Japan.
This sparked an interesting conversation. Our buddy works for a Japanese industrial company, and he said a few years ago he was invited to a plant in Japan to check out their operations. As he was walking through, he noticed a dude packing wheel bearings, and he was doing it with meticulous detail. He said the dude was in an impeccably white suit, standing on a mat over a perfectly clean work surface that looked like the guy was performing surgery on a human or something, just packing bearings. Then a year later, by chance, he was at a US facility producing similar equipment and he happened to notice that wheel bearing packing was being done by an overweight dude sitting on a worn-out chair, slamming bearings in a packing machine and out ZFG.
Stark contrast in attention to detail, we concluded that the Japanese likely have a much higher standard for work and attention to detail. Which compounds itself when building something as complex as a vehicle.
I have no doubt in my mind that your take is accurate, and I knew that going into this purchase. The Camry is a modern day Crown Vic.
Funny thing though, my TL was also build in Indiana I believe. Indiana, Kentucky?
I want to think that the Canadian operations are pretty toite, but who knows. Japan is awesome for that, and Japanese people I deal with are almost always on point, respectful and care about their employer's well being.
It's an interesting difference. Just glad my truck came from Japan. Murica bros hate it for not being Murican, but
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
I'm not buying this argument, the machinery is infinitely analog, and proper upkeep, operation and maintenance will change the quality of the parts and assembly. They are programmed by different people as well. I do think that a trend to pump out more volume forces some quality errors that are allowed to pass. Most people don't ever notice the plastic spikes on their car's back bumpers, so in the spirit of reaching 100% efficiency these guys let some stuff slide.
- max225
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 43008
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
- Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon
Well it’s an argument that will be had until the end of time. My US built taco had no issues in its stretched to 100% capacity factory. No plastic spikes, 0 paint issues, straight moon roof, perfect panel gaps.Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:33 amI'm not buying this argument, the machinery is infinitely analog, and proper upkeep, operation and maintenance will change the quality of the parts and assembly. They are programmed by different people as well. I do think that a trend to pump out more volume forces some quality errors that are allowed to pass. Most people don't ever notice the plastic spikes on their car's back bumpers, so in the spirit of reaching 100% efficiency these guys let some stuff slide.
I also think some of this is luck of the draw. We got someone here with a golf which apparently was worse screwed together than a Yugo
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
Fair enough, it's not a cheap shot against American build quality but more or less an observation that some plants and/or products are built worse than others. I can say that the Cammie is a high volume low f*cks given product, and that's okay with me.max225 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:38 amWell it’s an argument that will be had until the end of time. My US built taco had no issues in its stretched to 100% capacity factory. No plastic spikes, 0 paint issues, straight moon roof, perfect panel gaps.Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:33 am
I'm not buying this argument, the machinery is infinitely analog, and proper upkeep, operation and maintenance will change the quality of the parts and assembly. They are programmed by different people as well. I do think that a trend to pump out more volume forces some quality errors that are allowed to pass. Most people don't ever notice the plastic spikes on their car's back bumpers, so in the spirit of reaching 100% efficiency these guys let some stuff slide.
I also think some of this is luck of the draw. We got someone here with a golf which apparently was worse screwed together than a Yugo
What measures this metric JD Power Initial Quality?
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45326
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
This is the same argument as the Deutschland vs Mexico built GTI's. Having owned both, I see no difference in build quality between the 2. The factory machinery is the same so it must come down to work force, equipment maintenance/brogramming, etc, and luck of the draw, as mentioned.
- max225
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 43008
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
- Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon
I thought JD power is purely driven by s and $1 bills sent to their house to finish the surveyTar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:46 amFair enough, it's not a cheap shot against American build quality but more or less an observation that some plants and/or products are built worse than others. I can say that the Cammie is a high volume low f*cks given product, and that's okay with me.max225 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:38 am
Well it’s an argument that will be had until the end of time. My US built taco had no issues in its stretched to 100% capacity factory. No plastic spikes, 0 paint issues, straight moon roof, perfect panel gaps.
I also think some of this is luck of the draw. We got someone here with a golf which apparently was worse screwed together than a Yugo
What measures this metric JD Power Initial Quality?
- max225
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 43008
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
- Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon
wap wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:47 am This is the same argument as the Deutschland vs Mexico built GTI's. Having owned both, I see no difference in build quality between the 2. The factory machinery is the same so it must come down to work force, equipment maintenance/brogramming, etc, and luck of the draw, as mentioned.
Axis powers or bust you cuck
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45326
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
max225 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:49 amwap wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:47 am This is the same argument as the Deutschland vs Mexico built GTI's. Having owned both, I see no difference in build quality between the 2. The factory machinery is the same so it must come down to work force, equipment maintenance/brogramming, etc, and luck of the draw, as mentioned.
Axis powers or bust you cuck
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14145
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
Someone must have a handle on car build quality, don't say Consumers Reports, they give my car a 90 out of 100 lolmax225 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:48 amI thought JD power is purely driven by s and $1 bills sent to their house to finish the surveyTar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:46 am
Fair enough, it's not a cheap shot against American build quality but more or less an observation that some plants and/or products are built worse than others. I can say that the Cammie is a high volume low f*cks given product, and that's okay with me.
What measures this metric JD Power Initial Quality?
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
It's absolutely luck of the draw, but some plants/locations have more consistency than others. Since vehicles are so complex and there's variation at every step of the way, more leniency with quality checks can result in products that range from POS to perfect. Some of that quality risk can be mitigated by buying a vehicle assembled at a plant with established high quality standard, but you could still end up with a POS vehicle coming from a Japanese plant, or a perfect vehicle coming from Texas.max225 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:38 amWell it’s an argument that will be had until the end of time. My US built taco had no issues in its stretched to 100% capacity factory. No plastic spikes, 0 paint issues, straight moon roof, perfect panel gaps.Tar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:33 am
I'm not buying this argument, the machinery is infinitely analog, and proper upkeep, operation and maintenance will change the quality of the parts and assembly. They are programmed by different people as well. I do think that a trend to pump out more volume forces some quality errors that are allowed to pass. Most people don't ever notice the plastic spikes on their car's back bumpers, so in the spirit of reaching 100% efficiency these guys let some stuff slide.
I also think some of this is luck of the draw. We got someone here with a golf which apparently was worse screwed together than a Yugo
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.