Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

[fledonfoot]

Tesla just installed a supercharger next to the refinery I used to work at. Wouldn’t be a big deal to charge up there, it’s only 15 mins from my house.

Too bad I had no clue. Should have bought a model Y.

At the new Wawa that also sells beer?

[Huckleberry]

I don't understand why hatches went away. They were all the rage in the 80's and made sports cars practical. I haven't met anyone that claims to NOT want one, so there must be another reason why they're not built anymore. I'm going to guess that it has something to do with rigidity.

Yep, that's exactly it. You got a lot of rigidity by connecting the sides of the body together with the frame that goes around the opening of the back seats going down. A hatch on an 86/BRZ would add a lot of weight and reduce rigidity for a small practicality improvement.

But then the 944 became known for its remarkable handling while also having a hatch.

[MrH42]

Yep, that's exactly it. You got a lot of rigidity by connecting the sides of the body together with the frame that goes around the opening of the back seats going down. A hatch on an 86/BRZ would add a lot of weight and reduce rigidity for a small practicality improvement.

But then the 944 became known for its remarkable handling while also having a hatch.

It's also almost a 40 year design. Things have changed a lot.

[MrH42]

More power allows for more exploitation of gearing to get better mileage.

If the driver is demanding 80% of the power available with the 5.3, it doesn't matter if you have a 10 speed or 6 speed really. It's going to be working in that max power area of the rev range. But that same ask of the 6.2 might only be asking for 60% of available power. With the 10-speed, you've got multiple ways you can deliver that, and can pick the one that delivers the best fuel economy.

Basically, there's more ways to extract fuel economy when you've got more power on tap. So it's worth the investment on the 6.2 to give it a more expensive transmission. You probably see less of a fuel economy bump giving the 5.3 the 10-speed vs giving the 6.2 the 10-speed.

Everybody gets the 10 speed in the new IRS Tahoes.

Nice! Yeah, the plan was to eventually use it in everything. Any word on any gas mileage improvements switching to the 10speed?

[troyguitar]

But then the 944 became known for its remarkable handling while also having a hatch.

It's also almost a 40 year design. Things have changed a lot.

Which should make it easier to get good handling without gigantic solid pillars and a tiny trunk opening, no? But I guess everything needs to keep getting "better" so there's no market for "good" when the (enthusiast) world revolves around objective metrics.

[MexicanYarisTK]

So I got some time freed up, went for a run again in the crack of dawn. Unpacked and all that jazz and I got super tired of the mitsu outlander (its god fucking awful to drive) that I decided to fuck it and call to change it. Went to the airport rental on my "lunch break" and they said they had elantra available for me. Guy was like we have a kia forte, is the same engine, his words. There was also corolla and civic available, but went ahead and pulled the kia plunge. Got the paperwork exchanged and on my way. Except he said the car is at this spot and there is no car there. But the license plate was listed, so I looked around and found it. But man kia really has come a long way, the car drives pretty good, feels good and tight.

[wap]

That would be fantastic, like a new take on an 80's sports coupe.

What would be fantastic is if Porsche just took the 944 Turbo, put a 400 hp low emissions engine and a 6 speed in it and some giant brakes and sold it new. Don't need to change anything else.*

*This message brought to you by

Well, it's not like it's
But I'd be happy with anything over, say, 300 hp in a car as small as a 944,

[RLWake]

Well lads… I did it.

My blissful ignorance is over.

I drove my father-in-law’s ‘02 Z06 :brubtub:

There really is a magic to those things isn’t there? I was telling myself I wasn’t gonna go this route but FUUUUUUCK that’s so good. All it took was a downshift into second, a pull to redline, and now I’m hooked.

Ugh.

[RLWake]

If I can un-shitbox the C5 interior enough… I could go for something like that. Everything just felt so… intuitive. Right. Easy. Like… “well yes, this is how a proper grand touring sports car should be!”

[wap]

So I got some time freed up, went for a run again in the crack of dawn. Unpacked and all that jazz and I got super tired of the mitsu outlander (its god fucking awful to drive) that I decided to fuck it and call to change it. Went to the airport rental on my "lunch break" and they said they had elantra available for me. Guy was like we have a kia forte, is the same engine, his words. There was also corolla and civic available, but went ahead and pulled the kia plunge. Got the paperwork exchanged and on my way. Except he said the car is at this spot and there is no car there. But the license plate was listed, so I looked around and found it. But man kia really has come a long way, the car drives pretty good, feels good and tight.

to see that H/K's newfound excellence has also moved down to their lower end offerings.
Got any pics of the interior?

[troyguitar]

If I can un-shitbox the C5 interior enough… I could go for something like that. Everything just felt so… intuitive. Right. Easy. Like… “well yes, this is how a proper grand touring sports car should be!”

C6 Z51 is a C5 Z06 but better in every way.

[RLWake]

If I can un-shitbox the C5 interior enough… I could go for something like that. Everything just felt so… intuitive. Right. Easy. Like… “well yes, this is how a proper grand touring sports car should be!”

C6 Z51 is a C5 Z06 but better in every way.

Pop-up headlights

[troyguitar]

C6 Z51 is a C5 Z06 but better in every way.

Pop-up headlights

Like I said, the C6 is better in every way.

[Huckleberry]

But then the 944 became known for its remarkable handling while also having a hatch.

It's also almost a 40 year design. Things have changed a lot.

Exactly. So, having a vehicle handle well with a hatch shouldn't be a challenge.

[MexicanYarisTK]

So I got some time freed up, went for a run again in the crack of dawn. Unpacked and all that jazz and I got super tired of the mitsu outlander (its god fucking awful to drive) that I decided to fuck it and call to change it. Went to the airport rental on my "lunch break" and they said they had elantra available for me. Guy was like we have a kia forte, is the same engine, his words. There was also corolla and civic available, but went ahead and pulled the kia plunge. Got the paperwork exchanged and on my way. Except he said the car is at this spot and there is no car there. But the license plate was listed, so I looked around and found it. But man kia really has come a long way, the car drives pretty good, feels good and tight.

to see that H/K's newfound excellence has also moved down to their lower end offerings.
Got any pics of the interior?

Will do today, it feels similar to an audi design, after all the current designer used to work for Audi. The headunit screen tech kinda reminds of the same screen tech as kindle fire

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Pop-up headlights

Like I said, the C6 is better in every way.

0/7 would go C5 over C6.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

It's also almost a 40 year design. Things have changed a lot.

Exactly. So, having a vehicle handle well with a hatch shouldn't be a challenge.

Nope, but now marketing people need to be able to tout rigidity stats nobody understands and xx% improvement over the last model, and whatnot.

I adored my 944, I'd buy a new version of that thing today, wiggly body and all.

[wap]

It's also almost a 40 year design. Things have changed a lot.

Exactly. So, having a vehicle handle well with a hatch shouldn't be a challenge.

[MrH42]

There are crash standards, NVH, etc kind of expectations customers have now. I don't think a 40 year old 944 would sell

Granted, I don't think I have driven a 944, but I'm guessing it would get trounced by something like a new 86.

[CaleDeRoo]

C6 Z51 is a C5 Z06 but better in every way.

Pop-up headlights

Bruh they aren't worth it.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

There are crash standards, NVH, etc kind of expectations customers have now. I don't think a 40 year old 944 would sell

Granted, I don't think I have driven a 944, but I'm guessing it would get trounced by something like a new 86.

The new 86 has the same HP rating as a 944 TURBRO did. And that thing was at the time. So you're right, a new 86 would probably keep up with a TURBRO and trounce a base 944.

I loved my 944 turbo, I bet I'd love a new 86. Too bad (good?) I don't need another car.

[Huckleberry]

There are crash standards, NVH, etc kind of expectations customers have now. I don't think a 40 year old 944 would sell

Granted, I don't think I have driven a 944, but I'm guessing it would get trounced by something like a new 86.

What I'm saying is that 40 years ago, Porsche was able to develop a parts bin car that handled very well with an incorporated hatch. I'd like to think that improvements in manufacturing and engineering over that time would allow for the same feat to be done again on something like the 86. These are niche vehicles already that you know are going to have lower sales volumes than the other models, so to me, it would make sense to try to make the vehicle as single car-friendly as possible. Including a hatch is a great way of doing that.

[Johnny_P]

Tesla just installed a supercharger next to the refinery I used to work at. Wouldn’t be a big deal to charge up there, it’s only 15 mins from my house.

Too bad I had no clue. Should have bought a model Y.

At the new Wawa that also sells beer?

Yep. Would have been a fun "gas station" outing every other week.

[wap]

There are crash standards, NVH, etc kind of expectations customers have now. I don't think a 40 year old 944 would sell

Granted, I don't think I have driven a 944, but I'm guessing it would get trounced by something like a new 86.

What I'm saying is that 40 years ago, Porsche was able to develop a parts bin car that handled very well with an incorporated hatch. I'd like to think that improvements in manufacturing and engineering over that time would allow for the same feat to be done again on something like the 86. These are niche vehicles already that you know are going to have lower sales volumes than the other models, so to me, it would make sense to try to make the vehicle as single car-friendly as possible. Including a hatch is a great way of doing that.

[MexicanYarisTK]

So I got some time freed up, went for a run again in the crack of dawn. Unpacked and all that jazz and I got super tired of the mitsu outlander (its god fucking awful to drive) that I decided to fuck it and call to change it. Went to the airport rental on my "lunch break" and they said they had elantra available for me. Guy was like we have a kia forte, is the same engine, his words. There was also corolla and civic available, but went ahead and pulled the kia plunge. Got the paperwork exchanged and on my way. Except he said the car is at this spot and there is no car there. But the license plate was listed, so I looked around and found it. But man kia really has come a long way, the car drives pretty good, feels good and tight.

to see that H/K's newfound excellence has also moved down to their lower end offerings.
Got any pics of the interior?

You asked I deliver