Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

[CaleDeRoo]

Well you're too young for a Miata RF so what else you gonna do? 400z? Gonna be the same problem as the BRZ. EMBRACE THE BRO

Miata RF seems fine. Similar price point too…
M2 is Right up my alley but I just dont know if I want a “fun” car at the moment. Fun comes at the compromise of ride quality/road noise. And for some reason I care about that now…

Drove the mini 90 miles yesterday. It’s a good car. But it simply isn’t relaxing to drive.

I get you mang. I just paid money for stock C5 seats because I wanted that AARP seat foam. That C8 is right up your alley if you fit, so long as you get magride for that magic carpet life.

[HerrBerlin]

Got to drive and ride in a 2021 Crosstrek Sport for ~200 miles this past weekend. Drove like a toaster which I'm not convinced is the worst thing in the world anymore. It road nicely and didn't feel underpowered. Steering felt dead, but it's nice knowing that you can take it soft roading as needed.

@detroit is right in that it's great for what it is. If I end up replacing the Hype R this is a definite candidate. I'd probably miss the power and it felt pretty cheap on the inside, but it would ultimately be a great car for what I need.

Did you drive this one with the horrendous tires?

Yup curious to know how different it would feel on the stock setup.

[HerrBerlin]

Did you drive this one with the horrendous tires?

I wonder how different it is from mine with stock 17's

Me too. The wheels are 15s so I think the overall diameter is within 0.5in of stock. There was some tire noise that I bet wouldn't be there on the stock ones.

[max225]

Did you drive this one with the horrendous tires?

Yup curious to know how different it would feel on the stock setup.

No wonder the steering felt dead. Did they rub on full lock ?

Also how’s the road noise on those ?

[HerrBerlin]

Well you're too young for a Miata RF so what else you gonna do? 400z? Gonna be the same problem as the BRZ. EMBRACE THE BRO

Miata RF seems fine. Similar price point too…
M2 is Right up my alley but I just dont know if I want a “fun” car at the moment. Fun comes at the compromise of ride quality/road noise. And for some reason I care about that now…

Drove the mini 90 miles yesterday. It’s a good car. But it simply isn’t relaxing to drive.

Completely agreed which is why I'm even considering

If i had space for a second car i might feel different though.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Well you're too young for a Miata RF so what else you gonna do? 400z? Gonna be the same problem as the BRZ. EMBRACE THE BRO

Miata RF seems fine. Similar price point too…
M2 is Right up my alley but I just dont know if I want a “fun” car at the moment. Fun comes at the compromise of ride quality/road noise. And for some reason I care about that now…

Drove the mini 90 miles yesterday. It’s a good car. But it simply isn’t relaxing to drive.

MINI isn't relaxing, even the Countryman was pretty engaging. Which is good, but also bad if you want to chill. Roads are garbage, so chill driving is nice.

[D Griff]

Well you're too young for a Miata RF so what else you gonna do? 400z? Gonna be the same problem as the BRZ. EMBRACE THE BRO

Miata RF seems fine. Similar price point too…
M2 is Right up my alley but I just dont know if I want a “fun” car at the moment. Fun comes at the compromise of ride quality/road noise. And for some reason I care about that now…

Drove the mini 90 miles yesterday. It’s a good car. But it simply isn’t relaxing to drive.

We all want what we want, no hard in not doing a fun car, if you ever miss it, go for it. Given the fact that you don't drive the MINI, you are probably to not bother with it.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Yup curious to know how different it would feel on the stock setup.

No wonder the steering felt dead. Did they rub on full lock ?

Also how’s the road noise on those ?

Was going to mention that. One of the things I like about ours is that the steering is pretty decent and the car is actually reasonably fun to drive. The 17s make a big difference I think.

Road noise is fine. It's a bit loud overall, but it's a cheap car. It's nothing you wouldn't expect from something on the cheaper side.

The car overall feels nice, but definitely built to a price point. The outside door handles and doors overall feel a bit cheap when opening and closing. I'm sure there's some missing deadening due to cost.

[HerrBerlin]

Yup curious to know how different it would feel on the stock setup.

No wonder the steering felt dead. Did they rub on full lock ?

Also how’s the road noise on those ?

Nope. The wheels are much smaller than stock so the dimensions of the actual tire are pretty close to the stock setup.

There was some road noise but nothing terrible. I'll have to go drive a stock one to see what the difference is actually like.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I wonder how different it is from mine with stock 17's

Me too. The wheels are 15s so I think the overall diameter is within 0.5in of stock. There was some tire noise that I bet wouldn't be there on the stock ones.

I briefly considered 15s, but the handling with the 17s is really decent and I wouldn't want to compromise that since I drive more on road than off.

Maybe a set of Falken AT trails in the stock 17 size will be my compromise for more off road capability if I need it at some point.

[HerrBerlin]

No wonder the steering felt dead. Did they rub on full lock ?

Also how’s the road noise on those ?

Was going to mention that. One of the things I like about ours is that the steering is pretty decent and the car is actually reasonably fun to drive. The 17s make a big difference I think.

Road noise is fine. It's a bit loud overall, but it's a cheap car. It's nothing you wouldn't expect from something on the cheaper side.

The car overall feels nice, but definitely built to a price point. The outside door handles and doors overall feel a bit cheap when opening and closing. I'm sure there's some missing deadening due to cost.

Is there any play in your steering wheel? With this one, you could turn it an inch in either direction and still be tracking straight which i assume was from the tires?

Road noise was miles better than the Hype R for sure, even though it's not the quietest car. Can't really expect it to be at the price point.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

No wonder the steering felt dead. Did they rub on full lock ?

Also how’s the road noise on those ?

Nope. The wheels are much smaller than stock so the dimensions of the actual tire are pretty close to the stock setup.

There was some road noise but nothing terrible. I'll have to go drive a stock one to see what the difference is actually like.

I'd be really curious to hear what you think vs stock. Stock works really well IMO.

[max225]

No wonder the steering felt dead. Did they rub on full lock ?

Also how’s the road noise on those ?

Was going to mention that. One of the things I like about ours is that the steering is pretty decent and the car is actually reasonably fun to drive. The 17s make a big difference I think.

Road noise is fine. It's a bit loud overall, but it's a cheap car. It's nothing you wouldn't expect from something on the cheaper side.

The car overall feels nice, but definitely built to a price point. The outside door handles and doors overall feel a bit cheap when opening and closing. I'm sure there's some missing deadening due to cost.

My comment about road noise was with regard to the tractor tires yours are fine I’m sure.

I refuse to put “agressive” tread tires on my Tacoma like so many do. They destroy everything but the “look”

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Was going to mention that. One of the things I like about ours is that the steering is pretty decent and the car is actually reasonably fun to drive. The 17s make a big difference I think.

Road noise is fine. It's a bit loud overall, but it's a cheap car. It's nothing you wouldn't expect from something on the cheaper side.

The car overall feels nice, but definitely built to a price point. The outside door handles and doors overall feel a bit cheap when opening and closing. I'm sure there's some missing deadening due to cost.

Is there any play in your steering wheel? With this one, you could turn it an inch in either direction and still be tracking straight which i assume was from the tires?

Road noise was miles better than the Hype R for sure, even though it's not the quietest car. Can't really expect it to be at the price point.

No, steering in mine is immediate with zero play, but I think anything will feel sloppy compared to your Hype R. Again, a big reason I like it so much, no crossover I've driven is as close to fun as this.

I bet those marshmallow 15's really slop around. Good for off-road, but the tires are more capable than the car at that point. Beefier 17s would be the way IMO.

[max225]

No wonder the steering felt dead. Did they rub on full lock ?

Also how’s the road noise on those ?

Nope. The wheels are much smaller than stock so the dimensions of the actual tire are pretty close to the stock setup.

There was some road noise but nothing terrible. I'll have to go drive a stock one to see what the difference is actually like.

Interesting … maybe it’s the angle but they look about 1/2-1” larger in diameter. Do you happen to know the size?

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Was going to mention that. One of the things I like about ours is that the steering is pretty decent and the car is actually reasonably fun to drive. The 17s make a big difference I think.

Road noise is fine. It's a bit loud overall, but it's a cheap car. It's nothing you wouldn't expect from something on the cheaper side.

The car overall feels nice, but definitely built to a price point. The outside door handles and doors overall feel a bit cheap when opening and closing. I'm sure there's some missing deadening due to cost.

My comment about road noise was with regard to the tractor tires yours are fine I’m sure.

I refuse to put “agressive” tread tires on my Tacoma like so many do. They destroy everything but the “look”

Yea, tires make a huge difference for NVH. I always go the least aggressive that works. I'm concerned about durability of the minivan tires on the CT, but that's the only thing.

[HerrBerlin]

Is there any play in your steering wheel? With this one, you could turn it an inch in either direction and still be tracking straight which i assume was from the tires?

Road noise was miles better than the Hype R for sure, even though it's not the quietest car. Can't really expect it to be at the price point.

No, steering in mine is immediate with zero play, but I think anything will feel sloppy compared to your Hype R. Again, a big reason I like it so much, no crossover I've driven is as close to fun as this.

I bet those marshmallow 15's really slop around. Good for off-road, but the tires are more capable than the car at that point. Beefier 17s would be the way IMO.

Definitely going to have to drive a stock one then because that was my least favorite part about the drive. It had to have been the tires.

He had some Fallen Wildpeaks on the stock wheels before these and those were probably a much better compromise than what's on there now. These things were installed the day before I got to drive it.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Nope. The wheels are much smaller than stock so the dimensions of the actual tire are pretty close to the stock setup.

There was some road noise but nothing terrible. I'll have to go drive a stock one to see what the difference is actually like.

Interesting … maybe it’s the angle but they look about 1/2-1” larger in diameter. Do you happen to know the size?

IIRC 215/75r15 is the same OD as stock. The added sidewall makes it look a lot more beefy, and thus larger when they're not. Stock, the tires fill the wheel wells nicely.

[D Griff]

Was going to mention that. One of the things I like about ours is that the steering is pretty decent and the car is actually reasonably fun to drive. The 17s make a big difference I think.

Road noise is fine. It's a bit loud overall, but it's a cheap car. It's nothing you wouldn't expect from something on the cheaper side.

The car overall feels nice, but definitely built to a price point. The outside door handles and doors overall feel a bit cheap when opening and closing. I'm sure there's some missing deadening due to cost.

My comment about road noise was with regard to the tractor tires yours are fine I’m sure.

I refuse to put “agressive” tread tires on my Tacoma like so many do. They destroy everything but the “look”

I am astonished by the number of Taco, 4R, Jeep, and TRUK bros here who run the crazy aggressive tires that just howl constantly going down the road. Hell, I run 200TW tires all the time on my 'vette and they are nowhere near as loud. It is

[ChrisoftheNorth]

No, steering in mine is immediate with zero play, but I think anything will feel sloppy compared to your Hype R. Again, a big reason I like it so much, no crossover I've driven is as close to fun as this.

I bet those marshmallow 15's really slop around. Good for off-road, but the tires are more capable than the car at that point. Beefier 17s would be the way IMO.

Definitely going to have to drive a stock one then because that was my least favorite part about the drive. It had to have been the tires.

He had some Fallen Wildpeaks on the stock wheels before these and those were probably a much better compromise than what's on there now. These things were installed the day before I got to drive it.

I'd go with the Wildpeaks, personally. Why'd he change? Looks/boredom?

[ChrisoftheNorth]

My comment about road noise was with regard to the tractor tires yours are fine I’m sure.

I refuse to put “agressive” tread tires on my Tacoma like so many do. They destroy everything but the “look”

I am astonished by the number of Taco, 4R, Jeep, and TRUK bros here who run the crazy aggressive tires that just howl constantly going down the road. Hell, I run 200TW tires all the time on my 'vette and they are nowhere near as loud. It is

People are idiots and I've even met some that like the noise.

[HerrBerlin]

Nope. The wheels are much smaller than stock so the dimensions of the actual tire are pretty close to the stock setup.

There was some road noise but nothing terrible. I'll have to go drive a stock one to see what the difference is actually like.

Interesting … maybe it’s the angle but they look about 1/2-1” larger in diameter. Do you happen to know the size?

215/75 15 vs 225/60 17, so size is pretty similar but the compound/extra sidewall obviously makes a big difference.

[HerrBerlin]

Interesting … maybe it’s the angle but they look about 1/2-1” larger in diameter. Do you happen to know the size?

IIRC 215/75r15 is the same OD as stock. The added sidewall makes it look a lot more beefy, and thus larger when they're not. Stock, the tires fill the wheel wells nicely.

[max225]

My comment about road noise was with regard to the tractor tires yours are fine I’m sure.

I refuse to put “agressive” tread tires on my Tacoma like so many do. They destroy everything but the “look”

I am astonished by the number of Taco, 4R, Jeep, and TRUK bros here who run the crazy aggressive tires that just howl constantly going down the road. Hell, I run 200TW tires all the time on my 'vette and they are nowhere near as loud. It is

Yup the first thing most do is “throw away the garbage Toyota put on it from the factory “ then they immediately lose 2-3 mpg but consider it “worth it” because they “look so good”.

Mind you 2-3 mpg on a 18mpg vehicle is horrendous. 15% reduction… vs say losing 2-3 @40 which won’t even be a blip.

[HerrBerlin]

My comment about road noise was with regard to the tractor tires yours are fine I’m sure.

I refuse to put “agressive” tread tires on my Tacoma like so many do. They destroy everything but the “look”

I am astonished by the number of Taco, 4R, Jeep, and TRUK bros here who run the crazy aggressive tires that just howl constantly going down the road. Hell, I run 200TW tires all the time on my 'vette and they are nowhere near as loud. It is

Yeah I don't get it either, especially when most of them will never see any dirt.