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Huckleberry
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Melon wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:11 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:03 pm
So, in summation, here is where I stand with the motor:
Bore: 4.030"
Stroke: 3.000"
Rod Length: 6.125"
Rod: Scat Pro I-Beam
Piston Height: 1.400"
Dome Size: 7.6cc
Head Gasket Bore: 4.100"
Compressed Thickness: .056"
Camshaft: 237/245, .564/.563, 112 LSA/108 IC, Hydraulic Roller
Lifter: Isky Racing 2077HYRT, Silver Series HPX Short Travel
Cylinder Head: Dart Pro1, 180cc
Combustion Chamber: 58cc
This is going to be a hell of a machine, tons of torque, but will love to rev.
With the smaller displacement and the larger cam, the powerband should be shifted upward in the RPM range. Right now, the goal I have given myself is 7500, partly because that is the factory tach's limit and partly because I don't want to get too ambitious. Once I get it dialed in and on a dyno, I'll be able to see what the curve looks like and if it is falling or climbing at 7500.
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ChrisoftheNorth
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Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:30 am
Melon wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:11 pm

This is going to be a hell of a machine, tons of torque, but will love to rev.
With the smaller displacement and the larger cam, the powerband should be shifted upward in the RPM range. Right now, the goal I have given myself is 7500, partly because that is the factory tach's limit and partly because I don't want to get too ambitious. Once I get it dialed in and on a dyno, I'll be able to see what the curve looks like and if it is falling or climbing at 7500.
I'm not too familiar with cam specing outside of LS engines, but that cam seems massive for the displacement to me. Will be really interesting to see the results, it'll be a screamer I'm sure.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Huckleberry
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Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:44 am
Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:30 am

With the smaller displacement and the larger cam, the powerband should be shifted upward in the RPM range. Right now, the goal I have given myself is 7500, partly because that is the factory tach's limit and partly because I don't want to get too ambitious. Once I get it dialed in and on a dyno, I'll be able to see what the curve looks like and if it is falling or climbing at 7500.
I'm not too familiar with cam specing outside of LS engines, but that cam seems massive for the displacement to me. Will be really interesting to see the results, it'll be a screamer I'm sure.
It's a large cam for sure, but it is still smaller than the one that GM put in the original Z/28. That cam was 254/254 at .050".
If the cam winds up being too much of a chore to drive, I'll put a smaller cam in and use this one for something else, or sell it.
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ChrisoftheNorth
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Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:15 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:44 am
I'm not too familiar with cam specing outside of LS engines, but that cam seems massive for the displacement to me. Will be really interesting to see the results, it'll be a screamer I'm sure.
It's a large cam for sure, but it is still smaller than the one that GM put in the original Z/28. That cam was 254/254 at .050".
If the cam winds up being too much of a chore to drive, I'll put a smaller cam in and use this one for something else, or sell it.
:mindblown: :impressive:

Clearly there's a difference in what engines like.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Huckleberry
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Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:18 am
Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:15 am

It's a large cam for sure, but it is still smaller than the one that GM put in the original Z/28. That cam was 254/254 at .050".
If the cam winds up being too much of a chore to drive, I'll put a smaller cam in and use this one for something else, or sell it.
:mindblown: :impressive:

Clearly there's a difference in what engines like.
Yes and no. The original Z/28 was developed specifically so that GM could participate in Trans Am racing, and part of the rules was that they had to sell what they were racing and that there was a 5.0L displacement maximum. The camshaft was designed for a motor that was supposed to live in higher RPMs, and as a result, many people complained about its low RPM performance. With 20* and 10* less duration, my motor should perform better on the street, but still achieve higher RPMs. It is certainly a balancing act, and I'm excited to see how this motor behaves.
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Melon
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Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:30 am
Melon wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:11 pm

This is going to be a hell of a machine, tons of torque, but will love to rev.
With the smaller displacement and the larger cam, the powerband should be shifted upward in the RPM range. Right now, the goal I have given myself is 7500, partly because that is the factory tach's limit and partly because I don't want to get too ambitious. Once I get it dialed in and on a dyno, I'll be able to see what the curve looks like and if it is falling or climbing at 7500.
6800 was the number I had in my head.
Should sound fucking awesome winding it out at WOT.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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Melon
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Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:25 am
Melon wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:02 pm Dude this is incredible.

Ditching the booster for the brakes?
I'm going to use a hydroboost and master from a 98-02 Mustang GT.
:word:

A lot of the E30 guys delete it for room during engine swaps.
Friend of mine recently did a booster delete, and it's :notbad: at all to drive.
Requires some force on the pedal but it's incredible linear.
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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Huckleberry
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With the trans out of the car, I also took the time to replace the flimsy stock mount with a beefier piece from Lindsey Racing. The factory mount allows for a ton of flex, and I witnessed that flex when I was jacking up the rear of the car. I almost always jack vehicles up by the rear differential, and due to the excessive flex in the factory mount, the entire transaxle kicked over to the side before the car started raising up. The amount of movement that the stock mount allows is attributed to being the main cause for CV failures.
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Another issue with these cars that is a result from mileage is the shifter mechanism itself. Over time, the shifter handle will wear into a football shape, causing excessive sloppiness.
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Only944 sells a replacement handle that utilizes a bolt and thrust washers that keep the shifter handle tight to the arm that runs back to the transaxle. This puts the load on the sides of the arm instead of the shaft.
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I was also fortunate in finding a person who was in the process of converting their LT1-swapped 944 to an LS3, so I scooped up their LT1 mount. It utilizes one of the cross member bolts, and the two sway bar mount holes.
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I picked up an AC Delco 155533 heater valve, and went digging through my collection of miscellaneous brackets that I have accumulated to find something that I could modify to work.
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I utilized an existing stud on the frame rail.
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I picked up some 5/8" and 3/4" hoses with molded 90* ends to connect the valve to the heater core. I also installed the adapter bracket for the torque tube. This was another Facebook find. A company called Vintage Metalworks in Ohio makes them. They allow for the torque tube to be bolted to a standard SBC bellhousing with a Muncie pattern.
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ChrisoftheNorth
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Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:37 pm
Detroit wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:18 am
:mindblown: :impressive:

Clearly there's a difference in what engines like.
Yes and no. The original Z/28 was developed specifically so that GM could participate in Trans Am racing, and part of the rules was that they had to sell what they were racing and that there was a 5.0L displacement maximum. The camshaft was designed for a motor that was supposed to live in higher RPMs, and as a result, many people complained about its low RPM performance. With 20* and 10* less duration, my motor should perform better on the street, but still achieve higher RPMs. It is certainly a balancing act, and I'm excited to see how this motor behaves.
Very interesting. I love this discussion.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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ChrisoftheNorth
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Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:08 pm With the trans out of the car, I also took the time to replace the flimsy stock mount with a beefier piece from Lindsey Racing. The factory mount allows for a ton of flex, and I witnessed that flex when I was jacking up the rear of the car. I almost always jack vehicles up by the rear differential, and due to the excessive flex in the factory mount, the entire transaxle kicked over to the side before the car started raising up. The amount of movement that the stock mount allows is attributed to being the main cause for CV failures.
Image

Another issue with these cars that is a result from mileage is the shifter mechanism itself. Over time, the shifter handle will wear into a football shape, causing excessive sloppiness.
Image

Only944 sells a replacement handle that utilizes a bolt and thrust washers that keep the shifter handle tight to the arm that runs back to the transaxle. This puts the load on the sides of the arm instead of the shaft.
Image

I was also fortunate in finding a person who was in the process of converting their LT1-swapped 944 to an LS3, so I scooped up their LT1 mount. It utilizes one of the cross member bolts, and the two sway bar mount holes.
Image

I picked up an AC Delco 155533 heater valve, and went digging through my collection of miscellaneous brackets that I have accumulated to find something that I could modify to work.
Image
Image

I utilized an existing stud on the frame rail.
Image

I picked up some 5/8" and 3/4" hoses with molded 90* ends to connect the valve to the heater core. I also installed the adapter bracket for the torque tube. This was another Facebook find. A company called Vintage Metalworks in Ohio makes them. They allow for the torque tube to be bolted to a standard SBC bellhousing with a Muncie pattern.
Image
Oh man, that shifter rules...neat to see the aftermarket growing for 944's.

I remember taking my sifter apart and putting some bass tube around the inside of the linkage to tighten it up. Was the only solution at the time.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Huckleberry
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Melon wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:46 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:25 am

I'm going to use a hydroboost and master from a 98-02 Mustang GT.
:word:

A lot of the E30 guys delete it for room during engine swaps.
Friend of mine recently did a booster delete, and it's :notbad: at all to drive.
Requires some force on the pedal but it's incredible linear.
I considered going the manual route, but ultimately decided on this. It keeps me from needing to modify the pedal ratio and reinforcing the firewall. Hopefully, bleeding the power steering system won't be too much of a chore.
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CaleDeRoo
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Geoff and I spoke in detail about the built in between his naps on Saturday. Can't wait until it's done.
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Huckleberry
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While the motor was out, I pulled the steering rack and replaced it with a rebuilt unit from Detroit Axle. I also replaced the mount bushings with some poly units I found on the Bay. The 944 racks are prone to leaking. If this one starts leaking on me, I'll look into some other solution.
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I also started looking at my radiator options. Some guys have gotten away with the Turbo radiators for their street vehicles, but others have said that those did not provide enough cooling on a road course. It is my intention to periodically take this car on some courses, so I began looking at the aftermarket options. Ron Davis and a few others make solutions, but they are in the $600+ range. So, I grabbed the tape measure and started looking at universal aluminum radiators, and came across a unit from Afco, part number 80128N. It is $275 shipped. A few things that attracted me to this radiator is that is designed for pavement modified racing, it has two rows of 1" tubes in the core, it is a sealed unit with no provisions for a cap, and it is made in the US.
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I had posed the question to some of the 944 V8 Facebook groups about the radiator, and no one had given it a shot, and I was frequently told it wouldn't work or else people would have been using it already. I had to laugh at the number of people who told me I had the radiator upside down. Before I pulled the stock motor, I gave this radiator a test fit.
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With the radiator being taller, that meant that it was going to hang down lower. I know that the Turbo cars have a radiator crossmember that sits lower, but I didn't feel like trying to source one. So, I modified what I had. I cut the nuts off the existing crossmember and used threaded u-clips on the frame. I then used aluminum spacers to space the crossmember down.
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I coated the crossmember in some bedliner coating that I had leftover from the Impala's underside.
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I have a Spal 16" puller fan that I will wire up to provide cooling. The single 16" Spal actually provides more cooling capacity and CFM than the dual 11" fans that came with the car.
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3rdgenfan
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I'll be useful eventually.
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Huckleberry
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3rdgenfan wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:03 pm I'll be useful eventually.
There will be plenty of work once the motor gets together.
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MexicanYarisTK
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Oh fuck! I just came, sounds like a :fuckyeah: project!
Nephew of a :plac: a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
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Huckleberry
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I decided to tackle the fan shroud. I've made fan shrouds before out of steel, but I wanted to take a crack at making one out of aluminum. I bought a 2'x2' sheet of 5052 aluminum for $12, took some measurements of the radiator core, and then used the edge of my workbench to hammer the sheet into shape. Once I got it fitting the radiator properly, I traced out the 16" Spal fan and riveted the corners together.
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I used M6 u-clips and some aluminum bar stock to make tabs for securing the shroud into place.
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I used my Milwaukee rotary tool to cut out the trace of the fan (resulting in a trip to Home Depot to exchange for a new tool because mine burned up), and I finished the cut with some more M6 u-clips for mounting and some door edge trim on the cut.
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One thing about the LT1 engines is that the oil pump is still driven by the camshaft. In the Gen I small blocks, this was handled by the distributor. Obviously, the LT1s didn't have a rear-mounted distributor, so GM made a little piece to take its place. The piece is made out of plastic, and as the years have passed, there have been reports of it breaking. Luckily, Tick makes a billet version of the drive housing. It isn't cheap, but it is cheaper than a new motor.
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The original gear had some noticeable wear on the teeth, so I ordered a new one from GM. Gotta love that 1995 copyright.
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Old versus new:
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The new oil pump drive assembled:
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Another thing that I have been trying to figure out is the front springs. I needed a heavier front spring to accommodate for the added weight of the engine. Looking around, I saw that a lot of people went with Weltmeister 250lb springs. Unfortunately, they aren't made anymore. I thought I had a lead because a company had them listed on their website. I called and ordered them, and after a month of nothing, I called back to inquire. They said that they were trying to source the springs and would call me back later in the day with an update. Shortly after the call, I received an email notification of a refund. So, I started looking on eBay some more and came across some used Koni struts. They were takeoffs from a salvage yard. In the pictures, I was able to verify that they also had the Weltmeister springs I was searching for. So, I bought them.
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I don't think I touched on the rear brakes yet. I decided to clean up the factory units and use them with new hardware. The rear GTO caliper brackets were slightly off on bolt spacing, and it just didn't seem beneficial to go through the work of making a bracket and sourcing a rotor since both calipers are single piston floaters.
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The rotors didn't come with painted hats, so I painted them.
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Cleaned and lubricated the calipers with new Hawk pads.
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We'll see how the brakes work, and I'll adjust accordingly. I may go on the hunt for a simpler caliper design in the future.
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wap
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More :amaze:
:wap: Where are these mangos?
Detroit wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm I don't understand anything anymore.
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Melon
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Absolute score on the suspension man!
The shocks are still good?
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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Huckleberry
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Melon wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:57 am Absolute score on the suspension man!
The shocks are still good?
Not sure yet. If they aren't, Koni sells inserts.

I have a spring compressor, so I can test their rebound before installing them.
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Melon
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Huckleberry wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:50 am
Melon wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:57 am Absolute score on the suspension man!
The shocks are still good?
Not sure yet. If they aren't, Koni sells inserts.

I have a spring compressor, so I can test their rebound before installing them.
Oh nice, so the shocks are available. :like:
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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Huckleberry
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Melon wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:55 am
Huckleberry wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:50 am

Not sure yet. If they aren't, Koni sells inserts.

I have a spring compressor, so I can test their rebound before installing them.
Oh nice, so the shocks are available. :like:
Well, the inserts are available. So, I would need to disassemble the strut body and replace the insert.
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ChrisoftheNorth
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IIRC, I had Weltmeister springs with Koni adjustables in the front of my 951. They were great.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Melon
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Huckleberry wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:34 pm
Melon wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:55 am

Oh nice, so the shocks are available. :like:
Well, the inserts are available. So, I would need to disassemble the strut body and replace the insert.
Child's play for men like us.

Image
4zilch wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 am I'm a fucking failure.
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ChrisoftheNorth
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Melon wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:44 pm
Huckleberry wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:34 pm

Well, the inserts are available. So, I would need to disassemble the strut body and replace the insert.
Child's play for men like us.

Image
That's terrifying.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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