Car talk tré: Carpocalypse Now!

[lagunasecaballs]

Having driven both, they do not even remotely compare, IMO. The M4 is a soft turd in comparison, the rear end feels completely out of whack and it made me hate driving and riding in one.

I would have a 981 S or GTS over any other car in that price range.

[KiaGiver]

Having driven both, they do not even remotely compare, IMO. The M4 is a soft turd in comparison, the rear end feels completely out of whack and it made me hate driving and riding in one.

I would have a 981 S or GTS over any other car in that price range.

[max225]

I think they go for about 70-80k used. Quite pricy.

Have you driven a competition package M4 or regular plebe spec? I am not a huge fan of the E9X chassis/motors they are not that great IMO, in particular, the V8, noises aside.

I've driven a few iterations from M3 to M4 in ZCP and non-ZCP spec. Modded and non-modded. Getting a stick helps bring back some of the "feel" that an M car should have, but it's still just a glorified 335i to me. Maybe it's the elitism from owning two NA M3's, but I don't know. It's not the same.

What's wrong with the E9x chassis? It was heralded as one of the best cars you could ever own, period.

Nothing is wrong with it. But saying that F80 is somehow a noodle is just but each their own. Numbers don't lie...

[KiaGiver]

I've driven a few iterations from M3 to M4 in ZCP and non-ZCP spec. Modded and non-modded. Getting a stick helps bring back some of the "feel" that an M car should have, but it's still just a glorified 335i to me. Maybe it's the elitism from owning two NA M3's, but I don't know. It's not the same.

What's wrong with the E9x chassis? It was heralded as one of the best cars you could ever own, period.

Nothing is wrong with it. But saying that F80 is somehow a noodle is just but each their own. Numbers don't lie...

I said numb. I probably should have elaborated. It's essentially a RWD, German GT-R where BMW is chasing numbers instead of instilling the same "feeling" they used to have with every generation of M3 prior to the F8X chassis. Objectively, the car is absolutely better than the E9x, but it's like driving an appliance. It doesn't give the same visceral (read: subjective) feel like my two prior M3's. The S65 is the pinnacle of M motors for me. 8500 RPM redline, individual throttle bodies and the linear power delivery made it unique and actually bespoke for the platform. The S55 is.... a modified N55 with beefed up internals, larger turbos and a better tune.

If all I'm looking for is numbers I would ABSOLUTELY still NOT pick the F8x as there are GT-R's that are cheaper, they're faster and they're easier to eek out high WHP numbers.

There was a time I considered an F8x because I wanted to be a part of the Individual composition program. I wanted to have my car delivered at the Welt and do the whole european tour in my new M3 (I find the M4's body lines atrocious from the rear 3/4's). I realized that was retarded to pay 87k for a fucking paint job on a car I didn't even enjoy and moved on.

[max225]

Nothing is wrong with it. But saying that F80 is somehow a noodle is just but each their own. Numbers don't lie...

I said numb. I probably should have elaborated. It's essentially a RWD, German GT-R where BMW is chasing numbers instead of instilling the same "feeling" they used to have with every generation of M3 prior to the F8X chassis. Objectively, the car is absolutely better than the E9x, but it's like driving an appliance. It doesn't give the same visceral (read: subjective) feel like my two prior M3's. The S65 is the pinnacle of M motors for me. 8500 RPM redline, individual throttle bodies and the linear power delivery made it unique and actually bespoke for the platform. The S55 is.... a modified N55 with beefed up internals, larger turbos and a better tune.

If all I'm looking for is numbers I would ABSOLUTELY still NOT pick the F8x as there are GT-R's that are cheaper, they're faster and they're easier to eek out high WHP numbers.

There was a time I considered an F8x because I wanted to be a part of the Individual composition program. I wanted to have my car delivered at the Welt and do the whole european tour in my new M3 (I find the M4's body lines atrocious from the rear 3/4's). I realized that was retarded to pay 87k for a fucking paint job on a car I didn't even enjoy and moved on.

would not pay 87k for that either. That's porsche money. Mine was 78k msrp and dude before me got 6500 off sticker. The 's are out there. My car has everything ... what else needs to be added. Nav/stereo/seats/competition/6 cameras blah blah.

"Feel" is in fact subjective. I have no issues with my car whatsoever. My F30 Fake sport, yep I'll echo all your statements about chassis, feel etc. It was numb softish blah blah. My F80 is completely different. But once again that is to me. I drove a few E9X vehicles, and never walked away thinking OMG yes, amazing... they were good cars, but no where near where the F8X vehicles are. The E9X are heavier/slower, less fuel efficient and have interior space than the comparable F8X. Not to mention those engines made of glass, (Granted F8X reliability is not yet proven they are too new)

GT-Rs are around 60-70k for older 10-12 used M3s are in the 50s for a 5 year newer vehicle. Also, GTRs are heavier and completely different animals. Can't compare the two, can't pick a winner there, there are totally different. I looked at some GT-Rs as well, but didn't want to swallow a 80k bill... for a toy.

[KiaGiver]

I said numb. I probably should have elaborated. It's essentially a RWD, German GT-R where BMW is chasing numbers instead of instilling the same "feeling" they used to have with every generation of M3 prior to the F8X chassis. Objectively, the car is absolutely better than the E9x, but it's like driving an appliance. It doesn't give the same visceral (read: subjective) feel like my two prior M3's. The S65 is the pinnacle of M motors for me. 8500 RPM redline, individual throttle bodies and the linear power delivery made it unique and actually bespoke for the platform. The S55 is.... a modified N55 with beefed up internals, larger turbos and a better tune.

If all I'm looking for is numbers I would ABSOLUTELY still NOT pick the F8x as there are GT-R's that are cheaper, they're faster and they're easier to eek out high WHP numbers.

There was a time I considered an F8x because I wanted to be a part of the Individual composition program. I wanted to have my car delivered at the Welt and do the whole european tour in my new M3 (I find the M4's body lines atrocious from the rear 3/4's). I realized that was retarded to pay 87k for a fucking paint job on a car I didn't even enjoy and moved on.

would not pay 87k for that either. That's porsche money. Mine was 78k msrp and dude before me got 6500 off sticker. The 's are out there. My car has everything ... what else needs to be added. Nav/stereo/seats/competition/6 cameras blah blah.

"Feel" is in fact subjective. I have no issues with my car whatsoever. My F30 Fake sport, yep I'll echo all your statements about chassis, feel etc. It was numb softish blah blah. My F80 is completely different. But once again that is to me. I drove a few E9X vehicles, and never walked away thinking OMG yes, amazing... they were good cars, but no where near where the F8X vehicles are. The E9X are heavier/slower, less fuel efficient and have interior space than the comparable F8X. Not to mention those engines made of glass, (Granted F8X reliability is not yet proven they are too new)

GT-Rs are around 60-70k for older 10-12 used M3s are in the 50s for a 5 year newer vehicle. Also, GTRs are heavier and completely different animals. Can't compare the two, can't pick a winner there, there are totally different. I looked at some GT-Rs as well, but didn't want to swallow a 80k bill... for a toy.

I can't remember the exact dollar was for MSRP on the Individual composition M3 that I built. I think it was 1950 for the paint, 1950 for the leather, another 1200 forced onto the leather option for the leather dash, ZCP package, Executive package (for the iconic headlight option) and a few CF goodies. It came out to somewhere near 87k with a manual. I was going to get the Carbon Ceramic option as well, so actually, 95k.

Maybe it depends on spec, but my e90 was 35xx lbs before mods. I didn't have a sunroof, no fold down rear seats no extended leather option either. After mods (exhaust, much lighter Volk wheels, etc etc) I'd say I was tickling 3400lbs.

What's wrong with comparing the GT-R to the M4? I feel like they're only 2 drive wheels away from each other. Similar price points when you option out how most M3/4 owners do it, twin turbo 6 cylinder motors, dual clutch automatics, 2 doors with 4 seats, etc.

[Calvinball]

Wait, you can’t compare an M4 to a GT-R, but you can compare an M4 to a Cayman GTS?

I have a confuse.


Sent from the Beer Depository

[KiaGiver]

would not pay 87k for that either. That's porsche money. Mine was 78k msrp and dude before me got 6500 off sticker. The 's are out there. My car has everything ... what else needs to be added. Nav/stereo/seats/competition/6 cameras blah blah.

"Feel" is in fact subjective. I have no issues with my car whatsoever. My F30 Fake sport, yep I'll echo all your statements about chassis, feel etc. It was numb softish blah blah. My F80 is completely different. But once again that is to me. I drove a few E9X vehicles, and never walked away thinking OMG yes, amazing... they were good cars, but no where near where the F8X vehicles are. The E9X are heavier/slower, less fuel efficient and have interior space than the comparable F8X. Not to mention those engines made of glass, (Granted F8X reliability is not yet proven they are too new)

GT-Rs are around 60-70k for older 10-12 used M3s are in the 50s for a 5 year newer vehicle. Also, GTRs are heavier and completely different animals. Can't compare the two, can't pick a winner there, there are totally different. I looked at some GT-Rs as well, but didn't want to swallow a 80k bill... for a toy.

I can't remember the exact dollar was for MSRP on the Individual composition M3 that I built. I think it was 1950 for the paint, 1950 for the leather, another 1200 forced onto the leather option for the leather dash, ZCP package, Executive package (for the iconic headlight option) and a few CF goodies. It came out to somewhere near 87k with a manual. I was going to get the Carbon Ceramic option as well, so actually, 95k.

Maybe it depends on spec, but my e90 was 35xx lbs before mods. I didn't have a sunroof, no fold down rear seats no extended leather option either. After mods (exhaust, much lighter Volk wheels, etc etc) I'd say I was tickling 3400lbs.

What's wrong with comparing the GT-R to the M4? I feel like they're only 2 drive wheels away from each other. Similar price points when you option out how most M3/4 owners do it, twin turbo 6 cylinder motors, dual clutch automatics, 2 doors with 4 seats, etc.

EDIT: Seems like I can't add the CCB option to the M3 on BMW's website anymore, but my initial statement about pricing was way off. Even with all the CF goodies, individual paint and leather, I'm looking at 81,796 MSRP. Even after [user not found] left BMW, I was still able to source a diller hookup on M3Post and got close to 12% off as long as I took european delivery. So... call it roughly 9K off.

[KiaGiver]

https://www.google.com/search?q=f80+m3+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

Also, it looks like F80 and E90 ZCP weights are pretty close if similarly equipped.

[max225]

Wait, you can’t compare an M4 to a GT-R, but you can compare an M4 to a Cayman GTS?

I have a confuse.


Sent from the Beer Depository

A gtr is like well over 100k....
Used costs as much used as a new m4

[max225]

I can't remember the exact dollar was for MSRP on the Individual composition M3 that I built. I think it was 1950 for the paint, 1950 for the leather, another 1200 forced onto the leather option for the leather dash, ZCP package, Executive package (for the iconic headlight option) and a few CF goodies. It came out to somewhere near 87k with a manual. I was going to get the Carbon Ceramic option as well, so actually, 95k.

Maybe it depends on spec, but my e90 was 35xx lbs before mods. I didn't have a sunroof, no fold down rear seats no extended leather option either. After mods (exhaust, much lighter Volk wheels, etc etc) I'd say I was tickling 3400lbs.

What's wrong with comparing the GT-R to the M4? I feel like they're only 2 drive wheels away from each other. Similar price points when you option out how most M3/4 owners do it, twin turbo 6 cylinder motors, dual clutch automatics, 2 doors with 4 seats, etc.

EDIT: Seems like I can't add the CCB option to the M3 on BMW's website anymore, but my initial statement about pricing was way off. Even with all the CF goodies, individual paint and leather, I'm looking at 81,796 MSRP. Even after [user not found] left BMW, I was still able to source a diller hookup on M3Post and got close to 12% off as long as I took european delivery. So... call it roughly 9K off.

The s are great but I wouldn’t this thing... it’s too fast

[KiaGiver]

EDIT: Seems like I can't add the CCB option to the M3 on BMW's website anymore, but my initial statement about pricing was way off. Even with all the CF goodies, individual paint and leather, I'm looking at 81,796 MSRP. Even after [user not found] left BMW, I was still able to source a diller hookup on M3Post and got close to 12% off as long as I took european delivery. So... call it roughly 9K off.

The s are great but I wouldn’t this thing... it’s too fast

Manuals are already dying, though, may as well get them while I can. I'm sure in 5-10 years they'll be a history lesson.

[Calvinball]

Wait, you can’t compare an M4 to a GT-R, but you can compare an M4 to a Cayman GTS?

I have a confuse.


Sent from the Beer Depository

A gtr is like well over 100k....
And costs as much used as a new m4

Gotcha. I have no idea what these things cost, thought we were just comparing on performance.

[max225]

A gtr is like well over 100k....
And costs as much used as a new m4

Gotcha. I have no idea what these things cost, thought we were just comparing on performance.

I think a gtr is better performing and has much more left on the tuneZ table. Despite weighing 400lbs more. Great cars

[Davestr]

Nice review of the M4 here by Clarkson - https://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/t ... w-m4-2014/

I feel the same way as he does. My test was superb. I passed on a demo 2 months ago. I should have bought it. 2017 non ZCP. Dont care for those rims and the marginal gains you pay wayyyyyyyy too much for. I think the M4 is a superb looking machine. I love the M2 but I think about the M4 daily as well. Prefer that body more so than the M3 and its under rated as a car which makes used ones attractive price wise. I found it insanely comfortable on the road, easy to drive and performed well w/ superb brakes. It does it all as coupe. Nice size trunk, useable back seats etc etc. Thinking about past cars in terms of tech generation is useless. The M4 is a much better car than an E9X M3. Sounds are nice but those cars are not at all reliable overall and suffer absurd TB failures etc etc. They were great for their time. That time has very much passed. I love all the cars I had in the past. They dont compare to what I have now sadly. None of the Lotus Turbo's etc. None.

I like the GTR but lets be honest. Maintenance is more. Its about a 1000 per corner for full brakes. Its getting old and it has a ton of road noise. I like it but its also AWD and weighs over 4000lbs and eats brakes if you actually really employ the car and its power. 9''s and 10s are saddled with gearbox issues. Some diff problems as well. Ive considered one more than once. Not worth it. Tuneable but lacking some refinement given the price point new or used.

[max225]

Nice review of the M4 here by Clarkson - https://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/t ... w-m4-2014/

I feel the same way as he does. My test was superb. I passed on a demo 2 months ago. I should have bought it. 2017 non ZCP. Dont care for those rims and the marginal gains you pay wayyyyyyyy too much for. I think the M4 is a superb looking machine. I love the M2 but I think about the M4 daily as well. Prefer that body more so than the M3 and its under rated as a car which makes used ones attractive price wise. I found it insanely comfortable on the road, easy to drive and performed well w/ superb brakes. It does it all as coupe. Nice size trunk, useable back seats etc etc. Thinking about past cars in terms of tech generation is useless. The M4 is a much better car than an E9X M3. Sounds are nice but those cars are not at all reliable overall and suffer absurd TB failures etc etc. They were great for their time. That time has very much passed. I love all the cars I had in the past. They dont compare to what I have now sadly. None of the Lotus Turbo's etc. None.

I like the GTR but lets be honest. Maintenance is more. Its about a 1000 per corner for full brakes. Its getting old and it has a ton of road noise. I like it but its also AWD and weighs over 4000lbs and eats brakes if you actually really employ the car and its power. 9''s and 10s are saddled with gearbox issues. Some diff problems as well. Ive considered one more than once. Not worth it. Tuneable but lacking some refinement given the price point new or used.

only the older cars are good

[Davestr]

This guy normally parks farther down the street with his Wildtrak model Ranger/3.2liter. Hooked up his trailer and has the quad ready to roll in the back. Looks like he has a nice summer planned! Hope to chat with him before he rolls. Interested to know what he has planned.

[Davestr]

Michelin Pilot Sport 4's arrived today for the M235i. Hope to have them on and 'rollin' next week!

[max225]

Michelin Pilot Sport 4's arrived today for the M235i. Hope to have them on and 'rollin' next week!

[Davestr]

Michelin Pilot Sport 4's arrived today for the M235i. Hope to have them on and 'rollin' next week!

Still fun driving the M235

[dubshow]

cross post because relevant review of new type R. Im just a and put in in vw chat cause im jelly and need some tuna for my R...

viewtopic.php?p=278729#p278729

[Desertbreh]

cross post because relevant review of new type R. Im just a and put in in vw chat cause im jelly and need some tuna for my R...

viewtopic.php?p=278729#p278729

The type R is definitely better in muted colors to offset its otherwise ridic persona.

[Desertbreh]

This guy normally parks farther down the street with his Wildtrak model Ranger/3.2liter. Hooked up his trailer and has the quad ready to roll in the back. Looks like he has a nice summer planned! Hope to chat with him before he rolls. Interested to know what he has planned.

That Euro trailer looks efficient and....not junky.

[Desertbreh]

Nice review of the M4 here by Clarkson - https://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/t ... w-m4-2014/

I feel the same way as he does. My test was superb. I passed on a demo 2 months ago. I should have bought it. 2017 non ZCP. Dont care for those rims and the marginal gains you pay wayyyyyyyy too much for. I think the M4 is a superb looking machine. I love the M2 but I think about the M4 daily as well. Prefer that body more so than the M3 and its under rated as a car which makes used ones attractive price wise. I found it insanely comfortable on the road, easy to drive and performed well w/ superb brakes. It does it all as coupe. Nice size trunk, useable back seats etc etc. Thinking about past cars in terms of tech generation is useless. The M4 is a much better car than an E9X M3. Sounds are nice but those cars are not at all reliable overall and suffer absurd TB failures etc etc. They were great for their time. That time has very much passed. I love all the cars I had in the past. They dont compare to what I have now sadly. None of the Lotus Turbo's etc. None.

I like the GTR but lets be honest. Maintenance is more. Its about a 1000 per corner for full brakes. Its getting old and it has a ton of road noise. I like it but its also AWD and weighs over 4000lbs and eats brakes if you actually really employ the car and its power. 9''s and 10s are saddled with gearbox issues. Some diff problems as well. Ive considered one more than once. Not worth it. Tuneable but lacking some refinement given the price point new or used.

Dave, you just need to say fuck it and get some sort of 911 Turbo/200mph thing. Your environment demands it. Your lineage of speed and danger deserves it.

[Johnny_P]

Nice review of the M4 here by Clarkson - https://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/t ... w-m4-2014/

I feel the same way as he does. My test was superb. I passed on a demo 2 months ago. I should have bought it. 2017 non ZCP. Dont care for those rims and the marginal gains you pay wayyyyyyyy too much for. I think the M4 is a superb looking machine. I love the M2 but I think about the M4 daily as well. Prefer that body more so than the M3 and its under rated as a car which makes used ones attractive price wise. I found it insanely comfortable on the road, easy to drive and performed well w/ superb brakes. It does it all as coupe. Nice size trunk, useable back seats etc etc. Thinking about past cars in terms of tech generation is useless. The M4 is a much better car than an E9X M3. Sounds are nice but those cars are not at all reliable overall and suffer absurd TB failures etc etc. They were great for their time. That time has very much passed. I love all the cars I had in the past. They dont compare to what I have now sadly. None of the Lotus Turbo's etc. None.

I like the GTR but lets be honest. Maintenance is more. Its about a 1000 per corner for full brakes. Its getting old and it has a ton of road noise. I like it but its also AWD and weighs over 4000lbs and eats brakes if you actually really employ the car and its power. 9''s and 10s are saddled with gearbox issues. Some diff problems as well. Ive considered one more than once. Not worth it. Tuneable but lacking some refinement given the price point new or used.

Dave, you just need to say fuck it and get some sort of 911 Turbo/200mph thing. Your environment demands it. Your lineage of speed and danger deserves it.

This. 911 Carrera S and call it quits.