And religion isn't the problem, imo. The problem is dumb people.
Smart people can know how to think critically and decern between fact and fiction. They can also know that not everything is knowable and find comfort in faith and come to religion knowing it's not rational yet have faith to believe
OT 12: Pew Pew Pew
- troyguitar
- Command Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 20088
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
- Drives: Trek Domane
- Location: Swamp
You can't fix stupidKYGTIGuy wrote:And religion isn't the problem, imo. The problem is dumb people.
Smart people can know how to think critically and decern between fact and fiction. They can also know that not everything is knowable and find comfort in faith and come to religion knowing it's not rational yet have faith to believe
You can at least try to keep from closing the minds of the world.
Maybe that's why some smart people turn to Religion? They know the score?troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:09 pmYou can't fix stupidKYGTIGuy wrote:And religion isn't the problem, imo. The problem is dumb people.
Smart people can know how to think critically and decern between fact and fiction. They can also know that not everything is knowable and find comfort in faith and come to religion knowing it's not rational yet have faith to believe
:hmm:
Whoa. Dressing up as indigenous peoples to commit crimes in order to further promote the white mans agenda and maintain his position at the top of patriarchal society ? That type of cultural appropriation is unacceptable my friend. We should ban the phrase Boston Tea party because it makes me feel threatened.
- troyguitar
- Command Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 20088
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
- Drives: Trek Domane
- Location: Swamp
I do the opposite to you: try to get you down from big broad (vague) claims to specific details.[user not found] wrote:You do this to everyone else though. Me especially.troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:01 pm You're right, I should have been more clear but tried to be brief-ish instead. That was a bad idea.
God forbid I assume that we all agree on the obvious: Some people are able to grow up with religion and think critically about some subjects. Some religious people are able to make rational decisions sometimes.
The fact that I needed to clarify that is kind of upsetting - You really think that little of me to assume that I wouldn't acknowledge the above?
But yes: I was WRONG to be so general. Some religious people have had some reasonable ideas. Some, I imagine, are good people.
I'm pretty liberal and some of the shit I see on Twitter is just amazing. I'm not going to stop being liberal but wow.
I'm hoping it's just a bunch of Russian bots trying to destroy my faith in humanity.
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45211
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:24 pmI do the opposite to you: try to get you down from big broad (vague) claims to specific details.[user not found] wrote:
You do this to everyone else though. Me especially.
But yes: I was WRONG to be so general. Some religious people have had some reasonable ideas. Some, I imagine, are good people.
- troyguitar
- Command Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 20088
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
- Drives: Trek Domane
- Location: Swamp
- Calvinball
- Moderator
- Posts: 11184
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:49 pm
- Drives: Pumpkin, Hellcat edition
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... technologytroyguitar wrote:What the fuck? You are sitting here claiming to be smarter than any scientist who has ever lived. That's one of "those things" - Guess what, champ? Accepting faith over makes you exactly what is wrong with the world. That plus accepting others who accept faith over might not be as bad as forcing kids to do it too, but you're still on the wrong side of the issue.SAWCE wrote: I actually don’t plan on taking my children to church. If they discover it own their own and it’s something they want in their lives, cool. So, no, I’m not doing any of those things. Keep on making generalizations and spreading hate though
Sent from the Beer Depository
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45211
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
Oh yea,troyguitar wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:32 pmHe turned to Mohammedwap wrote: Got nobody.
He didn't "turn" to it. He was raised with it.
He's the creator of ISIS.
I believe he drinks the blood of Jewish children, so it must be true.
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45211
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
Ask Galileo how his church treated him.Calvinball wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:39 pmhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... technologytroyguitar wrote:What the fuck? You are sitting here claiming to be smarter than any scientist who has ever lived. That's one of "those things" - Guess what, champ? Accepting faith over makes you exactly what is wrong with the world. That plus accepting others who accept faith over might not be as bad as forcing kids to do it too, but you're still on the wrong side of the issue.
Sent from the Beer Depository
- Calvinball
- Moderator
- Posts: 11184
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:49 pm
- Drives: Pumpkin, Hellcat edition
Well, this highlights my point. You often call people out for saying things that expect an assumption on the reader’s part. Say what you mean and be clear; that is a frequent counter argument of yours. So I can’t hold you to that same standard?troyguitar wrote:You're right, I should have been more clear but tried to be brief-ish instead. That was a bad idea.Calvinball wrote: “Teaching kids to believe in fairy tales against all evidence is the root problem here and makes the citizenry in general unable to think critically.”
“Religion is why we can’t make rational decisions.”
If you can’t see how what you said is easily interpreted as a blanket statement then I’m just done here. You accuse me of typical behavior, but right back at ya buddy. You resort to semantics whenever backed up, you the guy who says ‘say exactly what you mean’ all the time to others. This is either a conscious tactic, or you really can’t understand how you are doing exactly what you always accuse others of. Those statements I quoted, with no further explanation, absolutely are easily interpreted as blanket statements that religion and all those who have faith are fundamentally inferior at...thinking? I guess? I doubt anyone else on the board would disagree with me. At the very least you had to clarify it for me with this post I quoted here. I still disagree with you but at least your thoughts make more sense.
Sent from the Beer Depository
God forbid I assume that we all agree on the obvious: Some people are able to grow up with religion and think critically about some subjects. Some religious people are able to make rational decisions sometimes.
The fact that I needed to clarify that is kind of upsetting - You really think that little of me to assume that I wouldn't acknowledge the above?
It’s a forum, written communication only. Subtext/context is sometimes lost. The thing is when others are guilty of such assumptions your first reaction is to call people idiots.
This is an example of you being on the other side. Keep it in mind with future exchanges.
I don’t think little of you. I don’t think little of anyone on here. I try, not always successfully, to just stay out of the bickering that happens here on occasion.
However, like said, you have often talked about communication issues. I’ll say again, an Internet forum isn’t an ideal setting, but why not use it as practice. When my dad was on jeopardy Trebek commented on his watching the show all the time at home and playing along. My dad’s comment to that was “that was target practice, this is combat.” But he went on to win. Point being, if communication is an issue, you’ll have to work at it to improve. An Internet forum isn’t a perfect setting, but I think this particular forum has at least proven to have a thick enough skin to be a good target range. You gotta take a third party view of conversations though.
Meaning, identifying when things derail and not just considering the other party as in the wrong but taking a step back and putting yourself in their shoes. It’s the only way it works. The science is out there; if you come at an anti-vaccer saying they are wrong and here’s the facts, then they just double down on their beliefs.
If you want to have productive conversations and not just back and forth pointless arguments, you have to learn how this aspect of psychology works. Otherwise you’ll always just butt heads and make enemies.
Finally, this stuff is a feel-it-out process, sometimes you put yourself in someone else’s shoes and realize...I should just stop right here cause ain’t nothing there.
Sent from the Beer Depository
- troyguitar
- Command Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 20088
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
- Drives: Trek Domane
- Location: Swamp
You hit me on the one day that I fucked up and got super general, talking about the one subject that I strongly believe is the worst thing in our history, our present, and our likely future. So yeah, I messed it up... But can you think of other times I've been less than specific which lead you to believe that I often speak that way? I try very hard to make my ideas very clear, most of the time.Calvinball wrote:Well, this highlights my point. You often call people out for saying things that expect an assumption on the reader’s part. Say what you mean and be clear; that is a frequent counter argument of yours. So I can’t hold you to that same standard?troyguitar wrote: You're right, I should have been more clear but tried to be brief-ish instead. That was a bad idea.
God forbid I assume that we all agree on the obvious: Some people are able to grow up with religion and think critically about some subjects. Some religious people are able to make rational decisions sometimes.
The fact that I needed to clarify that is kind of upsetting - You really think that little of me to assume that I wouldn't acknowledge the above?
It’s a forum, written communication only. Subtext/context is sometimes lost. The thing is when others are guilty of such assumptions your first reaction is to call people idiots.
This is an example of you being on the other side. Keep it in mind with future exchanges.
I don’t think little of you. I don’t think little of anyone on here. I try, not always successfully, to just stay out of the bickering that happens here on occasion.
However, like said, you have often talked about communication issues. I’ll say again, an Internet forum isn’t an ideal setting, but why not use it as practice. When my dad was on jeopardy Trebek commented on his watching the show all the time at home and playing along. My dad’s comment to that was “that was target practice, this is combat.” But he went on to win. Point being, if communication is an issue, you’ll have to work at it to improve. An Internet forum isn’t a perfect setting, but I think this particular forum has at least proven to have a thick enough skin to be a good target range. You gotta take a third party view of conversations though.
Meaning, identifying when things derail and not just considering the other party as in the wrong but taking a step back and putting yourself in their shoes. It’s the only way it works. The science is out there; if you come at an anti-vaccer saying they are wrong and here’s the facts, then they just double down on their beliefs.
If you want to have productive conversations and not just back and forth pointless arguments, you have to learn how this aspect of psychology works. Otherwise you’ll always just butt heads and make enemies.
Finally, this stuff is a feel-it-out process, sometimes you put yourself in someone else’s shoes and realize...I should just stop right here cause ain’t nothing there.
Sent from the Beer Depository
Religion is fucking evil and my hatred for it knows few bounds. Kids being forced into that shit for centuries is the biggest crime in history.
- troyguitar
- Command Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 20088
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
- Drives: Trek Domane
- Location: Swamp
=
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14126
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
He was shunned for trying to dispute flat Earth theory & they officially apologized 300 yrs later (latest Pope)?wap wrote:Ask Galileo how his church treated him.Calvinball wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:39 pm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... technology
Sent from the Beer Depository